Five Generations In: Inside the Business of Beverage Distribution with Brad Demo | Ep13

All right, what's up, dude? Welcome. Yeah, thanks for having me on, appreciate it. Thanks for hanging out. Do a little plug and we'll do a few plugs for you. We got Form Energy sponsoring this podcast today. Am I allowed to say that? You're like, no, no, Sam, you can't say that. It was free, given to me by an authorized reseller. Yeah. And it's the new flavor. Yeah, it's a new partnership with Anheuser-Busch and Form Supplements, so it's been good. Awesome. All right, guys, Sam Muehl-McVeigh here, your host on the Killer Growth Podcast. I have Brad Demo with Demo Distributorship. What's the actual legal name? Demo Distributors, Inc. Inc, Demo Distributors, Inc. And we're gonna learn about Brad's story. We're gonna learn about liquor laws and beverage reselling, reselling. And when I said laws, I'm not gonna get crazy specific. I'm just always confused by the whole thing, so we can just figure it out together. And yeah, so we'll get started there. But here's how I like to start, so it's an easy one. We're just hanging out. Brad's story from college to where you're at today. Yeah. How you got to where you're at today. Yeah, so I went to Butler Community College, played baseball for two years. Golly, okay, hold on, time out. That's three podcasts now of my 10 podcasts have all said the same thing at the beginning. All right, continue. Yeah, enjoyed my time there, graduated. I spent a pretty worthless year up at K-State in Manhattan, and then came back to Friends University. Was that hate on K-State? They just suck? No, that was my personal time there was. Your use of time was a waste. Yeah, yeah, right. And then I came back to Friends and graduated, so. At Friends and Wichita, okay. And then from there? Right, so I came back. When I came back, I started working full-time at DEMO Sales, running the warehouse, taking night classes, and then jumped on a delivery sales route and finished college doing that. That's where I started. That's probably about when I got to know you playing basketball, actually, because I see you running routes, and I'm pretty sure at that time I was running routes. I was running routes for the Interstate Batteries. Okay. So I was driving a similar truck, actually, that you guys drove around, and I'd see you walking in with a bunch of cases on the dolly, and I'm like, I do the exact same thing every day. It's just car batteries. Still my favorite job in the world, just being out there, making relationships and working. I'm sure going to the same place, it's the same people every time, which is like liquor stores and grocery stores. Okay, so give me the origin story. I'm excited about this. DEMO Distributors, give me the origin story. Yeah, so I'm fifth generation. Fifth? Fifth generation, yeah, owner, and we started out as a produce company, DEMO Produce, in the early 1900s, actually. So- And where was that located? In Augusta, and we had a location in New York City as well. So yeah, just selling food to grocery stores, and got into ice and beverages and different products, and ultimately, in 1933, after Prohibition, we were lucky enough to get Anheuser-Busch as a franchise, and that's where that started. Wow. So was there ever any pre-Prohibition, any pre-stuff, I mean, you know, they talk about like these pot stores, you know, we see certain stores that might already have their foot in the door for when it gets legalized. You don't have to answer that. Right. I'll plead the fifth there. Smart. Wow, that's great. So distributed groceries. So you guys, how do you distribute? Are you getting them from, was it farmer's brands? You just say- Yeah, I'm not real knowledgeable on what happened back then, but yeah, I think they went to farmers and bought it and sold it to the grocery stores. Yeah, especially back then. I mean, it wasn't like there was all these name brand packaged items pre-1930s. And ice was big for us too. That's what I did when I grew up, is bag ice and sell ice. And we had two ice plants, one here and one in Southeast Kansas. That were your own ice plant? Yep. Really? Yep. And so everyone that bought ice came from, they didn't have the, what is that? Sorry. Yeah. What is ice? Ice maker. Nobody had ice makers at home. Right. So we had a huge bin full of ice and we sat in there in the cold when we were kids, bagging ice. Bagging ice. Yep. And you had a, how big was this ice maker? Man, my dad would be able to tell you how big it was. We'd sit up there and knock ice down all day long, but a lot, we could bag a lot during the day and we'd empty it. So you'd go sell it. Did you have like a chute? How'd you bag the ice? Yeah, it was a chute. It was a big bin, came down into a chute and we'd just hold the bag. Hold the bag and tie it. Was someone like up there with a shovel? Well, they'd just knock it down and it would go into the. And it would fall down into the. Dang, that's cool. I never really, that's like a whole conversation in itself. Sure. You think of all these industries that disappeared because of, you know, innovation, like having an ice maker at home. Yep. That's the most fun industry I've ever thought about. The ice makers. Yeah, that's what we did when we were kids. Just pick ice. Okay, so then Anheuser-Busch. So take me back, the family, five generations. So who was the person that started? So James Demo, my great-great-grandpa, started Demo Produce. And then Charlie, his son, took over. Actually was partners with House of Schwan in Wichita at the time. Because he could get a license in Kansas and they couldn't. But they had majority ownership. Bought us out of Sedgwick County, and we got Butler County. Oh, wow. The territory for Anheuser-Busch. Dang. And then Don, my grandpa, took over after Charlie. So Charlie was your great-great-grandpa. Yep. And Don took over somewhere in the 70s. He got the opportunity to buy the territory in southeast Kansas in Independence, and he moved down there. And my dad stayed here and ran this one. This was your uncle? No. The one that went to? Don was my grandpa. Sorry, grandpa. Okay. Yep, they moved down, started growing that one, and dad took over here. Okay. And then I came in. Yep. Crazy. So on a multi, you had generational, five generations, and it was different. Groceries to ICE to Anheuser-Busch. Talk about how an Anheuser-Busch dealership works. What do you guys have rights to? What's your? Right, so we're a franchise. Okay. In essence, I mean, we have our specific territories, right? In El Dorado, we cover Butler County. Then we have four counties in southeast Kansas. Okay. That is our franchise territory. And they hold us to an equity agreement with policies and processes that we have to follow, and it's been good. And then you distribute it to the clients. Are you responsible for getting new stores to sell the product in that territory? Sure, I mean, anybody that has a license to sell alcohol in that territory, if they want Anheuser-Busch, they have to come through us. They have to buy from you. Right, they can't legally buy through anybody else. Yeah, that makes sense. Do you guys have to buy the inventory? Right. From them, or do they consign the inventory? No, we buy it. Yeah. Yep, right away. Yeah, and then what's the shelf life? How quick do you have to turn? So, I mean, now it's changed a little bit. It used to be 110 days, and now some of those products, after COVID, they've tested, so it's a little longer, 120, 130. Some craft beers are 180, even up to a year with some of the seltzers. Yeah. There's a robust portfolio now, and we hold about 25 to 30 days of inventory on our floor. Yeah, that's a lot of purchasing and decisions. Yeah, there's a lot of money wrapped up into that. Oh, yeah. But we turn it as quick as possible and keep trucks coming in. Yeah. How many locations do you guys serve total between all your counties? That's a good question. Well, through our Anheuser-Busch territory, we have probably 200 accounts between the five counties, and then our wine and liquor base around the states, a lot more than that. Okay. All right, so now let's go into, we have two distilleries in El Dorado. Yep. Let's say I'm gonna start a distillery, and then I'll do the brewery analogy. I'm gonna start a distillery in Kansas, and I don't know how much of it changes by county, too, or if it's all pretty similar in the whole state. Yeah, it's mainly state-licensed. I'm gonna start a distillery, I bottle a product. Can I sell the bottle that I make, and I'm licensed, can I sell the bottle to a liquor store? You can. I mean, there's certain volume standards that a distillery or brewery can self-distribute, but over a certain point, you have to go through a second tier, which is a distributor. So, okay, so they can sell a certain amount, and then it's cut off, which is so arbitrary. And it's hard. I mean, it's difficult. A lot of them have figured out that it takes a lot of effort to distribute to all these stores, and they find out it's easier just going to a distributor and letting them handle that. Yeah, because, yeah, the vehicle, the checking in on it, having programs, understanding their programs on the retail side, I'm sure. Okay, that makes sense. So if I have a brewery, same story? Yeah, and they just changed a lot of that to where, in Kansas now, you can self-distribute up to a certain gallonage. If you produce and sell more than a certain point, then you have to go to a distributor. And why do they say you have to? I think just the franchise laws are pretty good in Kansas, and they understand the value in having a distributor, and distributors, and the tax money it brings in. It's good to have them. Gotcha. As in it, or, yeah, talk about that more, I guess. I don't know what you mean by the franchise laws. Well, I mean, ultimately, in the United States, alcohol has to be sold through a three-tier system. So supplier, distributor, retailer. Got it. There are certain, like, farm wineries and small breweries can self-distribute, but after a certain threshold, they have to go through that three-tier system. And that probably creates, you say, more tax dollars because there has to be a couple markups, right? Yeah. So that's essentially the- I mean, ultimately, and my dad always talks about it, we're just tax collectors at the end of the day. I mean, almost 80% of the price of a beer is tax. Interesting. Yeah, taxed by the distributor and the- Yeah, the state. The state, yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's interesting. I know quite a few people that have done it. Like, I know she's not in anymore, and it did well, Jenny's Wine Cellar. Yeah. I knew her. I know Joel over here. Yep. And that's a cool deal. It's a good deal. You guys help. The distributor model, I think, empowers the startup, too. Sure. You're in a position to put in a bigger purchase order with an already set client base that you can pre-sell to. So that's a huge win. Yeah. If someone makes a tasty- And talk about that. Outside of the Anheuser-Busch, I make Sammy's bourbon, and Brad comes in to taste it. What's that process look like? Do you guys just taste something, and you're like, yeah, it's good. Yeah, I'll sell it. We've been through different avenues. We go to trade shows and find products, or they reach out, the local ones that we've talked to, and work with them directly. We're really small, so we add some value in the fact that we focus on it. We don't have a ton of different products on our truck, so when we go to the retailer, we can sell their product, hand-sell it, and we have a full-scale sign shop in our place that we do all of the signage, the marketing, work with those suppliers to get their product out there. On the shelf. Outside of Anheuser-Busch, what's been the most successful product you've brought in? Yeah, so the original Pickle Shot is by far best-selling product outside of Anheuser-Busch. We do have Sparkling Ice, which is a non-AB, non-out brand that we sell a lot of volume, but dollar-wise, Pickle Shot's been really good. I've never had a Pickle Shot. I'll have to bring you some. I mean, they were up everywhere, though. Like, every bar, every restaurant you went into, you'd see some poster, but did that just blow up all over the country? Well, I think they're in about 13 states now, so we were one of the first states it started out at. Kansas just likes their pickles. They love pickles around the Midwest, for sure. It's crazy how, I didn't believe in it. Thankfully, Brandon, my brother, and Travis believed in that, and it took off and did well. No kidding. How did that one come about? Was it at a trade show? Yeah, we saw it out in Vegas every two years. They have a huge trade show that have all types of different products that we try, and if we like them, we'll bring them in. If we get lucky enough to, that one we hit on. Yeah, so talk about Anheuser-Busch product, the lineup. What's all in their lineup today? Yeah, so they've reigned in their focus brands more now than ever. They used to innovate a ton, and we did bring in 10 different products in a year, where now they're really focused on their core brands, like premium, core, and value, so Michelob Ultra's obviously a killer in that core section, premium, but obviously, Bushlight's doing well in the value. They've worked on premiumizing their selection, like Stella, and Golden Road, Mango Cart, and so it's been great for us that they just reigned it in into about seven focus brands that we really try to work on, and it's been a good deal. Do they have any non-alcoholic products? Yeah, so that's been a growing section for us, so about every section within our portfolio has a non-alc, so there's a Stella in a Michelob Ultra in a, a Bud and Bud Light in a, even the value like Bush. Yeah, which I think is the best in a I've had, by the way. I agree, there's a lot of flavor there, and it sells a lot. It's surprising how much in a sells. Yeah. We've been behind it. Now there's even Craft in a. You can get about any craft beer in a non-alc. Not a big fan of those. Yeah, yeah. I need to find the right one. Sure. Okay, so yeah, there's the N.A., and then is Anheuser-Busch in any other, like you talked about the sparkling, like do they have? Yeah, so Sparkling Ice is not Anheuser-Busch, but it's a different supplier, but they do have non-alc brands like Form. So Form is Anheuser-Busch? Yeah, so they're partnered. I don't know what their ownership is in it, but their plan is to buy it outright, the brand, and sell it. So they've been partnered with Monster Energy, which we've lost, which was huge. So Coca-Cola bought Monster. We used to distribute it. So Anheuser-Busch had Monster before Coke? So they had the distribution rights. Distribution rights, okay. And then Ghost Energy was our last one that we built and lost. Dr. Pepper bought them out, and so we lost the distribution. See, I didn't even think about that. So that's a huge advantage for Anheuser-Busch for up-and-coming beverages because of their distribution channels, massive. So they'll take on stuff just because of their distribution channel. Do they take on stuff they don't own? They have to own some share in it, I'm assuming? They don't have to. I mean, if they make a deal to get the distribution rights, they can utilize, I mean, there's almost 400 Anheuser-Busch distributors in the nation that cover every account. So we're there. It's tough to play with the Coca-Cola and Pepsi bottlers, but we're making inroads on that non-ALG stuff. Yeah, you said 400? 400. And there's a lot of consolidation that's happened over the last 10 years or so because there used to be, when I got in, about 500. So, okay, so there's more locations than that. Well. Or they're, they just can cover a big- Have consolidated. Okay. Stopped covering certain areas or? Just from one location. Gotcha. Yeah, makes sense. It used to be two, now it's one. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, with the, like, from what the data shows, and we've talked about this before, drinking, alcohol consumption is down at what percent? I think I had it written down. It was crazy how much it's gone down. I don't know if you know what the numbers are. Yeah, I think a lot of that could be fake news. Sure. Yeah, I know, yeah. We're getting hit hard by the media right now with alcohol consumption, but ultimately we don't see that pie shrinking as much as they say. Okay, that's what I was gonna ask. There is less, but it's a small percentage, right? Yeah. The overall pie of alcohol drinkers hasn't shrunk that much, but. So, it has shrunk, but probably not at the level. It's pretty- To me, like, for that to shrink, 5% is pretty massive. Yeah, and I don't think it's anywhere close to that. For sure, and it's cyclical over time. People come and go. Sure, yeah, yeah. We've seen those trends happen. Brand new to it, or it becomes, well, and so then you throw in marijuana, right? THC drinks, what other? Yeah, functional beverages is a big- That's what those are called. Yeah, I mean, there's all kinds of things now with THC, even mushrooms, and different stuff they're putting in. I mean, better for you, health. You know, they're throwing proteins and vitamins and alcohol, or, you know. Yeah. It's just a different world now. Yeah, for sure. Talk about that with the THC stuff. How does that work? Because it's not, like, legal in Kansas, but it's in all the stores now. Yeah, so under the Farm Bill that Kansas passed, and I think it's federally, actually, but you can have up to 0.03 hemp-derived THC in a beverage. Okay. So, I don't know wholly what that means, but- Right. You can do it, and they can put a ton of milligrams of Delta-9 or THC-derived product in these drinks and sell them. Yeah. And we haven't gotten into that yet. We've been looking, but we're small, so we're risk-adverse to some of that, to where if our license has that risk, we're not gonna risk it. Gotcha. On that note, is that still kind of a gray area of what's legal? Definitely. I mean, the KBI director and the attorney general in Kansas have been raiding shops and taking all that product out. Really? We haven't seen a lot of that around here, but yeah, there's a lot of gray area that we're small enough to where we don't wanna risk getting in yet. That's interesting. So who's getting raided, the distributor or the retailer? No, like the smoke shop, the retailers. Oh, okay. Yeah, they're coming in. And I mean, truly, you don't know what's in that can unless it's tested by a lab. Right. And some of that stuff that they're selling is not technically legal, and they're pulling all that. Gotcha. So whoever's making that also, I'm assuming is getting in trouble. I mean, I don't know that they've gotten in trouble other than they're just confiscating it. Taking the inventory. And hopefully moving forward, they get some better laws put in place to where everybody knows the game they're playing. Yeah, I feel like anytime it's gonna be gray, it's just, you're gonna have a lot of problems. Yeah, and I think there's obviously a market for it. People are buying it. Sure. We just haven't gotten involved yet. Yeah, makes sense. What have you shifted category-wise like in the last 10, 15 years? What's been the biggest shift in your categories? Yeah, so like I talked about the pie of alcohol drinkers has been split up a lot in the last 10 years from people drinking whiskey, spirits, wine. The biggest shift right now is into the ready-to-drink cocktails that we've seen. So, you know, like Cutwater makes a margarita in a can with 13% alcohol and people like drinking one as opposed to five beers or whatever. Yeah. That's been a huge shift. But it's cyclical as well. We saw the craft beer movement. Yeah. The whiskey movement, that's kind of on the decline. Yeah. Well, and that was COVID, I think changed a lot. Yeah. I feel like bourbon wasn't even talked about a whole lot. And we had to diversify our portfolio. I mean, when I came in in 2010, Bud Light was 40% of our sales. I mean, just that brand. So light loggers, they're still huge, but we saw that downturn. So we had to diversify our portfolio. Yeah. Not just within Anheuser-Busch's portfolio, but with wine and liquor too. Yeah. Talk about your other counties. So Butler County, your other counties are... Yeah, so we have Wilson, Chautauqua, Elk, and Montgomery County. Okay. And we run that. I'm familiar with Wilson. Wait, or maybe I'm not. Are they all East? Yeah, they're all Southeast. Southeast, okay. I know what you're thinking of. So Severy. Yeah, gotcha. Independence, Coffeyville. Yeah. Down in that territory. Is that a lot of mileage? Yeah, it's a big territory. So our trucks run a lot of miles down there. A lot of small towns. Do you have a separate distribution center there? Right. We have a facility there that's almost equal to what we have here. And they actually sell more through those four counties than we do here. Yeah. Yeah, which makes sense. That's a lot of towns. Yeah. How close is that to Kansas City? It's still two and a half hours from Kansas City. Really? It's that far south? Yeah, we go all the way to the Oklahoma border. Dang. Yeah. Yeah. Talk about the other relationships besides liquor stores. That's something I didn't fully understand. Yeah. I just think of you guys going to liquor stores, but you're at grocery stores. What are other clients? Yeah, anywhere with an alcohol license we distribute to. So on-premise bars, packaged liquor, convenience, dollar stores, grocery stores. Which has changed a lot too, because in Kansas in 2019 switched the laws from three-two beer being only sold in grocery and convenience stores. Oh, right, yeah. So 70% of our business in 2019 was through packaged liquor, which is a significantly lower amount of account. Right. In 19 they switched that to where everybody can sell up to 6% alcohol, malt beverages. Which was good for you. Yeah, it's a challenge, because our customer base switched. We used to deal with mainly packaged liquor, independent packaged liquor owners that we can develop good relationships with. We've known them, they've known me since I was a kid. Now we're dealing with a Walmart store manager. Yeah, Kroger, yeah. Yeah, and a lot of that's done through the corporate. Anheuser-Busch deals directly with Walmart, and we have to abide by what they decide. Gotcha. So it was a change, but it's been good. Yeah, I was gonna say, was that an uptick overall? I think so. Yeah. I mean, we were prepared and planned for it good to where we've developed those relationships with the chains. I felt like it was a bad deal. I knew of two guys that shut down their liquor store operations because of it. They were just, they were at that weird spot of maybe retiring, and then were selling, and just decided to shut it down. Yeah, and we love our independent packaged liquor owners, but it's tough when you gotta compete price-wise with dealing to the Walmart. And you're already buying all your groceries. It's just convenient. Yep. You're getting your milk, and your steaks, and your beers. Yep. Yeah, I do my best not to do that, support the guys here in town. I'm not gonna say I don't ever do that. No, it's very convenient. It is very convenient. You can order it online now and have it ready to pick up. Oh, that's true. I didn't even think about that. They don't deliver, though, to your house, right, beer? They can't deliver the alcohol, but you can have it at pickup. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that makes, like, they bring it out to your car. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. We'll talk about the energy drink scene. That's pretty interesting. Yeah. What do you think's gonna happen with this? Because I feel like I see it form everywhere right now. Yeah, it's starting. I mean, they have a cult following that form, the supplement company. They're huge, and AB partnering with them, and Dana White's involved with it. So they're starting to get out there and push it. It's not in a ton of chains, which is where a lot of those energy drinks are sold, but independent-wise, we're getting it out there, and it's moving. It's a good product. Yeah. And there's more flavors coming. It's a competitive. This is really good. Yeah, it's a competitive environment. Oh, yeah. Paradise Punch. So when does this come out? I think we start next week. Okay. We'll start getting that in stores. Man, I feel so special. Guys. No one's ever tasted this before. This moment ever. Yeah, I would assume, as you guys, it makes total sense on the distribution channels that they would be in, and for yourself with anybody else. I feel like they would always, Anheuser-Busch would have an opportunity to find deals to distribute for anybody. Obviously, that's harder for you guys to just find some deal if it's not part of a bigger deal, but how did you get the Sparkling Ice deal? Well, Anheuser-Busch, the distributor group, worked with Talking Rain, which is their parent company, and to use, I mean, we got the trucks going there already, so throw it on and give them an opportunity to where we're not competing with what's on the Coke truck or Pepsi. Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, what's the, talk about the generational side of this. You're five generations now. You're moving up. I'm assuming your dad's at, how old is your dad now? He's 70. No, he's not. Yeah. He's looking good. Yeah. I think he's 70. Yeah. Yeah, so talk about that. What's that look like right now? Yeah, so he's been really good about me coming in and essentially taking over. It's tough for him sometimes watching that, but he still comes into work every day and does a lot around the shop, but he's been very welcoming in the fact that succession plan is important. Yeah. You gotta have it. Well, what's your biggest weakness as a business owner? What do you struggle with the most? Oh, man, there's a lot. Top 10. No, I'm kidding. No. The people is difficult. I've always been around coaching or working with young kids and other people to develop them, but it's a challenge all the time getting good people in, training them, making sure they stay. I think that's one of the biggest things for me, as well as the infrastructure, keeping your trucks good, your buildings solid, but I'd say managing people is probably where I can get a lot better. Yeah. What have you learned in that for those listening that have a business? What have you learned the hard way in? Yeah, well, difficult conversations. I mean, this is hard for me to do, but having those difficult conversations when stuff happens, having that humility when you do something wrong that you bring it up and you say it. We've worked hard on our processes and policies and evaluations and culture and working with those people to make them better. Yeah. They're your lifeblood. Yeah. The main thing. How much of, in that world, do you talk about like a ceiling or a driver? Like when I worked at Interstate Batteries, I had a very similar job. I had dealers and so I was kind of in sales, but I was also a delivery guy. Like I'd take the batteries out, talk to them. You need anything else? Here's the new program. Should we put this by the window? You know, this battery display. Do your route managers, are they salary? Do they get performance? Right. So when I started, I was same as you. I was the delivery guy, the salesman, the merchandiser. I've built all the pallets before and now we've split that up into that we have specific salespeople, specific delivery drivers, people that build the orders the day before. But Anheuser-Busch does a great job with their incentive planning on making sure our guys are structured in the way they go out and sell. That's cool. We do a lot of internal incentive as well. Yeah. So they do provide a lot of infrastructure support, process systems. Yeah. And we have pretty set goals and standards that we have to live by and accomplish. Yeah. What does your actual role day-to-day look like now? Man, that's a good question. When you don't get to be on the truck. Right, which I'd rather be. I mean, now I'm the president and owner. I do all the financial work, halftime janitor, cleaning up still, but we wear a lot of hats around there. We're small and do a lot of different stuff. My title's ever-evolving. Yeah, sure. Still. Who's your department heads at DMO's? What does that look like? Yeah, so Travis Tennyson, he's been with us for 25 years as our sales manager. I mean, he's evolved into more of a general manager. He does a lot of our graphic work and sign work. Andrew Smith does all of our operations. So he forecasts the beer, takes care of the warehouse. Brandon obviously does our wine and liquor side of the business. So he's in charge of that. That's mainly our management team. Okay. Is that the sparkling ice type deals or anything outside of liquor that would come direct to you? Yeah, so we have a key account manager who handles all the chain accounts. Okay, that are all. Yeah, Jake does that and he handles, mainly the sparkling ice goes through the chain accounts and he handles all that selling and displays and stuff. And so who's doing all the buying? That seems like the scariest job. Well, I okay it, but Andrew does it. Andrew does all of it. From wine and liquor to non out to all the beer too. Yeah. And we forecast, I mean, he forecast 13 weeks out. Okay. So obviously it takes a long time to make a beer and they have to grow the product. Right, sure. But. Yeah, there's probably not just endless. Right. So when he's predicting that, is he using any kind of software? Yeah. Using any tools? Yeah, Anheuser-Busch has their own forecasting program that, I mean, it's pretty robust with all the numbers and last year's sales and trends and all that. We do, we use our own internal route accounting system and compass for our sales. And it also has a forecasting tool in it. Okay. That we use for the other products outside of Anheuser-Busch. And so did you say routing as well? You have a software for the routing? Yeah. So encompasses. That's inside. A route accounting system that actually a distributor developed. Oh, cool. We got in, that was one of the first things I did when I got into management was switch up to that. Yeah. And it's been beneficial. Yeah. Does it track your drivers and stuff as well? Yeah, it can do about everything. That's awesome. So when we reroute, start new plans, we use that tool to help us. Yeah. What other things have you developed or put into motion that weren't there? Yeah, so, I mean, we're very small business. An employee handbook. Yeah. That was actually the first, one of the first things we did was redo that, which we still have a lot of work to do on, but that route accounting system was huge. We hired new accountants that have other distributors. So it's nice to practice share. They have about six or seven different distributors that they work with and that's been helpful. So they see other people's financials and kind of help do that. Yeah. I'm sure everybody would like to know, talk about on the retail side, not your side, on the retail side, what do margins at a liquor store, what margins are a liquor store usually experiencing across the categories? Yeah, I think the standard, I mean, it's all changed now, especially since the laws changed, but I mean, with beer, they try to stay around 20%-ish with the premium products like Stella and Kraft, they go 25. Wines usually around 30 to 40, same with spirits. I mean, it depends. And the chain accounts have affected that a lot because they run five to 10. So it's hard to compete, yeah. Yeah, which they can't do the spirit or liquor in Kansas, but they can in other states like Nevada, when we were in Vegas, right? They can sell liquor at the grocery store, I can imagine. Right, Missouri and Oklahoma, they can sell outside of packaged liquor. But the grocery stores will settle for five to 10% on beer. Oh, yeah. Jeez. I've never really noticed that big of a difference. I've obviously not paid a whole lot of attention. Yeah, they run slim margins. Yeah. Yeah, so 20 is, yeah, a lot to probably get if they're at 10, that's half the... I mean, at that point, at that markup, it's probably not a huge dollar difference, but percentage-wise, yeah. On a 30-pack, it's four or $5 cheaper. That's true. That's like, yeah, you look at that as like four free beers. Yeah. Right, I think, what's a 30-pack, 30 bucks, 40 bucks? Depending on what it is, I guess. Yeah, they'll retail $24.99 after tax. I mean, it's right up there. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah, that is nuts. On those relationships, how do you guys take a new product into a... With, you go in and you've got a liquor that is distilled here in El Dorado. Yeah. That seems like an interesting conversation. No, we usually have a pretty good plan for our guys before a rollout like that happens, but you take them samples. You make them understand the brand and what they're about and try to get shelf space, but it's competitive. Yeah. I mean, we're small and we compete with those big guys that drive volume. So the marketing on your guys' side is very much, I mean, is it strategically free or discounted or the signage side or you show up and your salesperson does a sample day on behalf of the... How do you actually grow a new product in a liquor store? Right. So we kind of developed into a brand builder at this point with these small distilleries or other brands we're trying to build, but we do all the in-store signage from price tags to posters, to banners, to billboards even. But we usually have a plan with sampling. Sometimes we'll do an introductory cost, but provide signage and a lot of it's based on the relationship our salespeople have. That's huge for us to get those products in because they see it every day from every distributor, new products. Oh, yeah. It's tough to get on the shelf. Yeah, I'm trying to think of what would actually make me try something new without someone telling me to try it. Right, and that's tough. A lot of times people, the managers or owners usually work during the day. Well, people shop for alcohol usually after hours or after five where it's just a random worker. And at that point you have a teller, like it's not a teller. Yeah, someone that's not invested fully and don't really care what you buy, but we try to do a lot of sampling. So we'll send people out, just be at those stores during peak hours to sample new product and make sure, Travis and Brandon, they do a great job with graphics, making sure people see that when they come in, outside, inside displays. Yeah, I'm trying to decide if I've ever bought something because I think I've bought bourbons because I thought the label looked cool. Yeah, I think that's huge with like wine, you know, that's on the label. Yeah, I think labels have influenced me. I don't know if signs have influenced me in a store. That's interesting to think about, but it probably has. I mean, if I'm walking through and I have 10 seconds to make a decision. Well, hopefully now you'll notice. I was going to say, and everyone listening will probably start thinking about, oh. I think it's important to like, Anheuser-Busch always comes into our market and says, man, this looks good. Because when you go to a different market and go to a store, represented different how we present ourselves out in the market. Makes sense, yeah. Yeah, because you're a partner for that retail center. A good wholesaler's going to provide marketing opportunities. Plain and nice, it looks good. Yeah, yeah. What goes into that, which would be an interesting, do they provide it? Well, I guess they wouldn't provide you marketing assistance on these other deals, Anheuser-Busch, but is there market research or any data available on that? Correct labels and? Yeah, they have a whole website based on graphics and templates that we use for their products and have to be held accountable to what we use. But on the Anheuser-Busch franchise. I was saying, I guess, when you're helping, if somebody comes in and they are new, like Pickle Shots, and you're like, okay, now we got to do signage. Because obviously they have the final say, the producer, but I'm assuming you guys also give them advice and then make stuff. Yeah, it varies from supplier to supplier. Some have very strict templates that they like to use. Some, you know, Travis does an amazing job with graphics. So, I mean, a lot of the stuff they use outside of our territory has came from us. The stuff he made, yeah, yeah, that's cool. He takes a lot of pride in how we look out for him. So a lot of that's just his ability, his understanding of what moves the needle, 20 years of being around it. Sure. Like what's going to look good in the liquor store. The displays, how often do you take a product with its own standalone display versus get it on the shelf? Yeah, as much as possible. I mean, we want that. Do you have to pay for that spot, or? In Kansas, and nationally too, we can't provide incentive for them to display anything. Like we can't pay for shelf space. Like it's different with this. Like we can pay for slotting fees, but per alcohol, we cannot provide assistance with that. If you get it, it probably is because the retailer thinks it's a cool display and they'll turn enough of it. Or have a great relationship with our salesperson who they trust and believe in. Yeah, that makes sense. Those stands are expensive, regardless of what you're selling or showing. And we usually, Anheuser-Busch allows us to co-op, so they'll pay half, we pay half. But yeah, it's an expensive deal. Yeah. I'm curious on the bourbon liquor side. Have you guys found it, besides pickle shots, because it's kind of unique. Pickle shots, right, it's only eight proof or 10 proof? I think it's 20. Oh, it is 20. Oh, okay. I don't know why I thought it was a lot lower so that's technically, it is a liquor. And that other space, though, that is the most confusing, intimidating, poorly displayed items, period, in my mind. Like, any time I walk by a bourbon section or a gin section, I'm just like, oh my gosh. At least some of the brands are together, but then there's so many single one-off bottles that are by themselves. Yeah, it's tough to stand out on a shelf when you have a product you know will sell. And that's part of what Travis and our sign shop do, or Brandon, making sure that our products stick out. Yeah. And it's tough. Yeah, it'd be hard on the shelf to do, yeah. And it's also good, like, the three-tier system with distributors is providing that variety out there. Like, craft beer's a good example of, if it was just, I keep saying Coke and Pepsi, my wife works for Coke, but when you walk down the grocery store aisle, it's red and blue. There's not a lot of variety in there, but when you walk down a beer aisle, there's a lot of variety. Oh, yeah. Distributors do a good job at that. Yeah, that makes sense. Hey, do you guys distribute, are you allowed to distribute craft beer? Yeah. Okay. So we, I mean, we used to be exclusive to Anheuser-Busch. Now they've opened it up to where we can sell anything we want. We just haven't, we got into it a little bit, but it was kind of on the back side of that trend, so. And they provide a lot. They've bought a dozen craft breweries around the U.S. So we distribute Elysian and Goose Island, several different craft beers within Anheuser-Busch. Yeah. What's your favorite product? Man, it depends on the event, I guess. You can go down the different categories. Yeah, I mean, I'm all over the place with my palate, but I like Busch Light, ultimately. It's my go-to, probably, but I've been drinking Neutral, which is a vodka-based seltzer. I just had one of those, yeah. Natural and light and refreshing. We drink cut waters. My wife likes that, so. Yeah. We're all over the place, really. Yeah, sure. Well, I'm sure when you're around it all day, too, it's pretty easy to change it up. Yeah. Then go back to what you know. Yeah, and the occasion makes a difference. Yeah, that's true. If you're at dinner or having drinks with your friends or whatever. Is the wine side, how's that going? The wine has been rough. We've almost gotten out of wine. We've had a couple, we actually acquired a wine distributor in 2019, I think, out of Kansas City, which kind of got our foot in the door with a lot of different products in that market. But anymore, we've cut that back because it's just challenging for us. You gotta be really knowledgeable to sell that, and we'll stick to what we know. There's a lot of wine snobs. Yeah. It's different. I mean, even compared to people that know a lot about bourbon, it's not the same. No, I mean, it's incredible what people know. I mean, the longitude and latitude of where the grape was grown is different. Oh, yeah. The soil type. Yeah, it's crazy. I went to a wine tasting deal in Wichita with Kogan because everybody who should have gone couldn't go. And it was really cool. The guy there was super knowledgeable. He took us through six samples, and it was the power of suggestion I thought was weird. You'd read it, and then he'd say it's got a note of this. You'd be like, oh, yeah, I taste that. But if he didn't say it, I guarantee you I had no clue. Yeah, I've learned a ton about, more than I ever thought I'd learn about wine. It's interesting. Yeah, yeah, there is good and bad wine. Oh, yeah, definitely. That you can notice a pretty big difference from box to a good bottle. What's the next? I would assume in this business, you get down the efficiencies, the consolidation makes a lot of sense. Are you guys, in the next 10 years, does that make the most sense to start buying out of their territories or stay where you're at? Oh, I think that's everybody's ultimate goal. But right now, yeah, we've worked hard on becoming efficient, right? We took over management of that independence territory. That's been a challenge for us, managing it from 110 miles away. Yeah, that would suck. But we're down there a lot. We wanna make sure we're in good shape and in a good position with our suppliers because they ultimately make the call if we do. And we have good relationships with our neighboring wholesalers to where if something came up and we're funded, we can do something. But we just wanna put ourselves in the position to have the opportunity. To be able to do it, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, that's fascinating. I think the strangest part about what you guys do is the diversity, but it makes total sense. And I like the form energy. I didn't even know you guys. I obviously wasn't in the know. I didn't know you distributed Monster that whole time. How cool is that? Yeah, my brother actually did all that. And when Coke bought it out, he went and did something else and we brought it back. Oh, is that when he went to shelter? Yeah. Yeah, okay. That sounds familiar. Yeah, which was, it was tough because we sold a lot of that. To lose that was, yeah. It was a big part of your business, yeah. Same with Ghost. We lost that last year. It's tough. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's just nature of that business, I guess. The big guy has a deal and sometimes the deal goes away. Yeah, and good for them. Yeah, I was like, they get a big cash out, you don't get any part of that. You guys gotta start adding that into your contracts. Oh, well, our contracts have changed a lot. You guys need to unionize all these dealerships. Yeah. I shouldn't say that here. I don't know. No. But no, that's awesome. Five generations. Congrats on the next step. Yeah, thank you. The next phase of taking over and it sounds like you're on the right track. Yeah, well, good people around you is all that makes the difference, so. Yeah. Thank you for the energy drink. Yep. Go drink Form Energy in a store near you somewhere. I see them everywhere. You say they're not widely distributed, but. Yeah, we haven't got into most of the chains yet, but. The bigger. Yeah, and all the independent stores. So probably all the, yeah, independent gas stations. I've seen it in there. Yeah. Yeah. But no, appreciate your time, dude. Yeah, thank you. This was fun. No, this was cool. Good job, way to get out of your comfort zone. I can't believe you said yes, first of all. Well, I didn't want to. Well, you volunteered some other people and I did push back and said, no, it has to be Brad. We have to be Jeremy's views. I'll help you with that. Yeah, make sure. We'll make sure that happens. Yeah. Even if it's not, we'll say it is. Yeah, we'll take care of that. No, I like what you're doing, too. This is cool. Thank you. Yeah, a lot of good stuff. Appreciate it. Yeah. If you have any other referrals, let us know. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, the one thing I didn't talk about is our wrestling team. So I coach high school wrestling and I think Wes, our head coach, would be great to have on here and talk about that. And we got good things going. Yeah. This is my 15th year doing that. You see some of those kids down there at Norville. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. It's a good program. Yeah, I didn't know you've been doing that for 15 years. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, that needs to be part of my questioning now. Needs to be what you do outside of the workplace as well. But yeah, appreciate you doing that. That's a lot. No, it's fun. A lot of time. It's making a difference for those kids. Yeah. Good. Awesome, dude. Well, appreciate you. Yep. Have a good weekend. Yeah, you too.