Building Better Food Systems: Backyard Chickens & Durable Design with Timothy Shenk | Ep 18

What's up guys, I'm Sam McVeigh the host of the killer growth podcast and today I have Timothy shank Yes, how'd I do shank? That's perfect shank. Yeah, not shank like you're getting shot shank Yeah, shank shank. Yeah. Yeah, perfect. I have Timothy shank with egg-carton egg-carton comm which is e g g c a r t n comm Awesome. There you go. Our hardest parts out of the way for me. I just gotta figure out how to make a legit introduction Yeah after that you do all the talking. Yeah, I'm set All right. Well, yeah again. Thank you. I know that's an hour drive over. Here's not nothing. Yeah, so appreciate you coming by I start real easy Your story from college age to what brought you to where you're at today Yeah, well Hmm what was college age? I actually we could call it. Whatever 16 17. I was a not how smart you I was a non-traditional so I actually was older. Oh, yeah, say not a teenager So yeah, I I mean My vocational journey is a little bit Still is a little bit of a roller coaster Not sure worked a ton of different jobs, you know through high school and after high school for a couple years Went to a two-year school in Pennsylvania And Came back and taught for three years at our church school. Okay, middle school homeroom Wow, and then in 2019 I also got married in 2017 29 fall 2019 went back to school at friends to get my undergrad Finish my degree in music So I've got I have a degree now graduated in 23 in vocal performance and music education Which is not what I'm doing now obviously, so that was always my dream was to do music and Cool. So at this point still doing on the side. So then in the middle of that in 2020 Caught wind that this that the gentleman who designed these chicken tractors was wanting to hand off the product line and So I talked to dad and I was like, hey, you you've always you know dreamed of having your own business and so we checked it out and and Yeah, I'm gonna be your poster child of like how not to start a business but like hey we got about learning we just right so we just like So basically, you know, we sat down with him and kind of worked out an MOU And a lot of things that we should have done differently, but anyway got into it tried got started and Anyway, so then, you know, I my older brother basically ran it by himself with help from some of the rest of us on school breaks and In what year was this? 21 March of 21 was when we when we started our LLC and took over the product brand the product line So at that point dad was still working full-time His day job and just kind of trying to help my brother who was doing doing this full-time And I'd help on school breaks So eventually my brother burned out and was like I mean it was a lot for one person So I came on then graduated in 23 Kind of took over his role in management and then in 24 He left and my younger brother came on full-time. So it's now for the last two years. It's been Me and my younger brother full-time. Oh Yeah, and then back in in 23 dad also came home full-time So all of a sudden we had a lot of people trying to do this and it still wasn't flying so now in the last year to dad's been working part-time elsewhere and just kind of Yeah trying to figure it out yeah, so Yeah, so it's it's all still pretty new. It is pretty time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So, yeah, I explained the roles of the business to me I'm curious Well, let's just talk about what egg carton is and the genesis of egg carton, I guess so who started egg carton. Yeah When you guys bought it and how were they running the business then so the product? Started the brand started. Oh Around 20 years ago and David deodor is a He's a he's a metal worker an inventor creative mind and So he'd been working at a local shed company just doing a lot of their maintenance and fixtures and things like that and His daughter asked him To design the coop to move around their backyard. So that's kind of where it started Then he was visiting some friends on mission in Belgium Okay, and they wanted a chicken tractor for their for their broilers their meat birds So he built them some something to go to Belgium What's that one there? They were they were they were doing mission work in Belgium and they wanted they wanted to raise chickens So he in Belgium in Belgium. Yeah. He like went and built one there and gotcha so that's kind of where the where the ideas started coming and And just a lot of design changes a few different models over the years and but he was always running it as a part-time thing Somewhere along the line he added actually not sure on the time frame. He added this separate Wheel kit that you can put on your own DIY Chicken tractor turn a coop you can turn a chicken coop into a chicken track right with the wheel Yeah, if you're building your own, I mean the hardest part of building your own chicken tractors making it move, right? Yeah falling apart when you move it, right? So the wheels, you know getting a good sturdy wheel system So those those are doing well, so then in 2020 when I when I heard about this he was wanting to To hand off the chicken tractors, but keep the lift kits so beginning of 23, we we took that the chicken tractors over and Yeah, it's been a bit of a an odd business structure from the beginning because My parents still have full ownership but My my brother and I are basically running it, right? I mean, I'm General manager or whatever. Yeah, whatever title you want to give me so There was a short time after my older brother was kind of pulling back that That my dad right after he came home full-time that he was like in the manager role and Just didn't fit him well, he didn't enjoy it didn't didn't turn his crank so Which is fine. He it was kind of and as we talked through it was kind of like We had always sort of thought like dad always wanted to have his own business And he just wanted to have a business to work with his boys. Yeah, so that's kind of what it came down to and So as we in the last couple years have been wrestling through some of those roles and saying, okay who actually belongs in what seat and He's much happier not in that seat. Yeah, so so that's fine, but then it makes it an interesting dynamic where like I'm managing kind of as a CEO or GM of Business, I don't know at all. Right? So Yeah That is Complicated and and you know looking forward. We're not sure I mean, there's there's probably probably a change of ownership before long, but sure that's all a little bit unknown, too. Yeah So describe your roles you and your brother are running running the whole thing. Mm-hmm. What does that? Look like day to day because you guys are making the product you're Assembling. Um, do you keep inventory kind of give me a day in the business? Well What time of year it looks very different busy spring and summer that's Ellen. Sure. Yes, that's selling I'm pretty much holding down the Taking care of all things sales and marketing Admin, yeah, all the bit all the office communication communication with vendors and stuff my brother Andrew is we kind of shifted in the last year to where he's He's the main guy in the shop and I'll help him there as much as I can sure So this time of year Like in the winter, we still have a trickle of sales, but it's slow. I'm spending most of my time doing Admin, we're getting systems in place and stuff. So yeah How long does it take so let's just talk about the product like the value of the product for a bit Why should someone spend $2,000 on a chicken coop. Yeah, and that's one of our cheaper ones. Yeah Do what's your most expensive? 4250 $4,200. Yeah. Yeah, so it's I always I always think the Yeah, I get it. It's a big price tag but When I look at people trying to homestead or even just raise food in their backyard They typically quit Within a few years like that the turnover rate between among people who are wanting to start small homesteads. Yeah Very few of them last up to five years Yeah and so what I see is and I've seen some of these these channels of like oh we're doing the homestead and They're doing all the things. Yeah, so that's the first thing they do too many things right out out of the gate but I See most of them burning out because they have sis don't have systems that work or last And so either you're gonna be spending all your time fixing broken systems or spending all your money replacing broken Equipment, so that's that's I think but the big reason I would say if you're going to if you're gonna raise your own eggs And you're gonna and you're not just dabbling in it right we want to do this You'll probably actually save money over the long haul with a chicken tractor that'll last you 20 years instead of Yeah, that's a tenth the price and you'll replace it every year, right? So, oh, yeah Well, I funny enough as I've told you the story. Mm-hmm We really got into chickens and we're in the city limits and we can have six hens no roosters But six hens that's a good amount of eggs Six-hands, that's a good amount of eggs for a family of six like where you know, it's not quite enough, but it's almost enough Yeah, when they're really start laying well and the time of year matters, obviously But we bought a cheap small one that just didn't seem humane from like a horse lens or Some hardware store and it said it could hold six hens, but we just weren't comfortable with it holding six hens So I found a guy that drove That built him and delivered it so we we paid I mean Five six hundred bucks, maybe a little more. I can't remember eight hundred bucks in this I mean he was a he wasn't old like I mean, I bet he was 17 Yeah, and he delivered this thing and so I'm on Facebook marketplace liked him. It's just kind of cool It's like well, this is better than you know, go somewhere else and surely well it did not last Very well and did not hold up. Well, yeah It was you know, I mean just all the material was fairly thin and it didn't take much for a fox to get in there and kill all our chickens and We went through that cycle Three times so we went through 18 chickens with little girls Mind you these chickens are pets. Yeah more than lay. Yeah egg layers I mean we had a chicken that did tricks Oh, man, Ellis would had these earth meal worms or earthworm or whatever those worms are they like the dried hands? She'd hold it up and like it go between her legs and and then she got to the point where she just go outside and Go yellow and that chicken would just come running out of nowhere and then it would like perch when they want you to pick them Up, uh-huh They've raised their wings and then also just grab her and just walk around the yard with her fully grown Egg-laying and just would hang out with Ellis. Yeah that dang Fox, you know, just it was just like their pets kept. Yeah murdered Yeah, so yeah That's my experience even paying what I considered I mean, I I think I paid more than that because he delivered it and stuff So I probably paid close to a thousand dollars for a custom chicken coop. That was four by six foot or something and But it I mean it yeah, it fell apart. It literally just went to pieces in two years Yeah, and we hauled it off to the dump. I mean it just and that was like someone making it Yeah, so let's talk about the construction. Why is the construction better? well The first thing you need to know is that chicken wire is for keeping chickens in and not for keeping anything else out. Well, so We so it's aluminum frame. It's not gonna rot like that one would But then we we use like heavy-duty welded wire on the sides and in 20 years, I don't think anything is Torn that stuff out. So So it's not actually chicken wire. It's well, no, it's welded wire. Do you buy those in sheets rolls or rolls? Okay? Yeah, yeah, that makes sense So yeah, that that's that's a lot stronger Mm-hmm Probably bet easier to to when you move that around because these are mobile. Yeah, they probably that Does that add any structural support or um, maybe a little bit when you know against twisting but but that's not a lot Anyway, oh, yeah better when it's twisting then. Yeah chicken wire. Yeah, absolutely. I mean the chicken wire is gonna get buckled in Yeah, yeah, and I hate that it starts like expanding and gets all like bubbly. Yeah So that's that's the big thing on the frame and then just the We have like the doors and the the whole lift system is powder-coated steel We have a steel roof, which a lot of the chicken tractors you see will just have like a canvas or something like that Ours have like actual shingles on it. Oh, wow. Okay, so I would yeah And that you'll see that a lot on like the coupes that people build themselves and they get our kit. Yeah for that The roof held up fine. The problem was the hinges the hinges. Oh the hinged roof It was a hinge room and so you'd lift a really heavy roof Yeah angles on it to get your eggs and like I mean if a chicken's head was yeah I thought you dropped that that chickens gone. I can't do that. Yeah, it was heavy Yeah So and some of these are changes that have been made over the years, but like all new flat tires No flat tires So, you know we give a 10-year warranty and like at the end of that time you'll see rust here and there I mean, no, there'll be rust stuff will be starting to break down. But like it should still be functional. I Mean out in the elements and just depending on what area of the country you're in the Sun Yeah, and elements are tough and then chickens aren't I mean they poop a lot. Yeah, they do. Yeah, they poop a lot They poop a lot. Yeah, they do. Yeah, and that deteriorates. Yes depreciates thing. Yeah So when they move it So let's say I get back into chickens. Okay, and I and I buy my egg carton and I want to yeah I'm just gonna get the wife on board. It was I mean, we're bad. We could not be farmers You know, if we raise the cow, we would never so yeah. Yeah, right where those people City folk, you know, everything's a pet. Yeah But if I we had like one stationary place and moving it seems great, but I'm in the city and I have nice grass Yeah, we like our nice grass You know, it's just fun to play on and run on and absolutely But if I move it around would it just destroy my yard? It depends how often you move it and how thick the grass is like we try to move ours every day Oh, okay, but it's tick. I mean, it's literally how hard is it to move? Literally a 10-second move really so like the That's one of the other unique things about our chicken tractor in particular There's a lot of chicken tractors out there that have built-in systems where you can just push a lever and raise it The difference with ours is the handle in front you push it down. It raises it up onto all four wheels Latches, you can move it forward. Oh watch it. It's like a lot of it. So with one handle you do the whole thing That's cool, so so it literally 10 seconds or less like that's that was So if you move it daily, and I know chicken poops hot, you know, it was cool. So if you move it daily It shouldn't burn the grass. Now the one thing like like six hand what how many hens go in like your Deluxe. Yeah. Well, the very biggest is a is a six by eight and we've put up to 20 or 25 in there That's okay. That's full full. Sure But on the four by six, but they're great. They're out pasture and they're in the coop at night or they Yeah, I probably wouldn't do 20 if it was Because that's our deal to is the Fox started coming at three o'clock and I mean there was no putting yeah before dark that Yeah, dang Fox got smarter and smarter and just yeah early and earlier So we kind of feel like they need to stay in that right and we can only have six so we get the big one and six But then the four by six will you say to ten but yeah, like you said it totally depends who you're talking to sure Yeah, the number feel about you know, like I'm like looking at it going that's way too small It's small. The next guy is like perfect. Yeah. Yeah, and I yeah and it does just come down to how people view their view their chickens because Yeah, we get a lot of comments on on social media about like pretty cramped Chickens and I I always I get it. I mean that we free-range ours as much as we can But it kind of comes down to what your goals are and and I if if Only people who can completely free-range chickens keep chickens, then we're not making a dent in the truly inhumane egg production because when you're comparing what you're comparing to is like Eight to twelve hens crammed in a two-foot square box, that's true. Hey, yeah, it's a good point Yeah, like day and night that never see daylight, right? And so even So yeah, the cage free in these big houses That's a whole other thing the little labels man sure, I don't know what these labels mean, but if you're comparing to to that kind of production and Raising them yourself Yeah, they would like more space, but they're getting to the grass fresh grass every day. Yeah, they've got room to walk around in there Yeah, is that could you make an argument doing that every day is better for your soil and grass? Oh Yeah. Yeah, I think You mean moving it every day? Yeah, I mean if you put it yeah on your I've got a whatever Over a half acre lot in town. Oh, yeah, and You know in the backyard is all that's where we keep them. Yeah, it's you know, oh you'll that's half the property but You'll definitely see where you had it. They'll green up. Yeah. Yeah We had it on our when his Bermuda and kind of brownish stuff and it greened up behind them But you do want to watch like if you leave them too long, they'll start they'll start digging I mean they like their does that that's been our problem. I think that's where we free range in our backyard with the fence Yeah, and they just love digging and rolling in dirt and they they want to just take it the same hole Like no roll in the same spot. You had to go dig another hole Yeah, but yeah, they started tearing up our yard. Wait, I and I never even I didn't know they did that I wasn't aware of that. That was one negative, right? so we started locking them up more and more and But if you move that thing every day, that's still pretty fresh. Yeah the bugs everything's Grass, if you got apps in your grass, then they'll find them and they'll they'll dig into that But yeah, but yeah thick grass moved every they're not gonna shit. Yeah. Yeah. All right And do you warranty that if that is a problem? No you I can't guarantee what? Yeah, well we like the chick we don't like getting chickens we tried getting him a adult or young We don't like that, you know like the chick they just aren't nice like wait as long as possible for you Yeah, exactly because we just want chickens that we like but man check yeah pets They but if you get a chicken that was already somewhere else, they never warm up to you it's like we could not get them to ever warm up to the kids and Run away and yeah I'm always scared. But no, that's good That's good feedback so tell me we've had this discussion with I had a rancher on Ryan lock talking about cattle and So like in the chicken thing and people swear by this But how is that egg actually better for you, what do you believe why is the egg that is Coming from a chicken that I feed in my backyard that I let eat bugs and see the sunlight Why is that a better egg For and give me all the reasons. Yeah, I need to be just the nutrition but just all around. Why is that better? All around to all the reasons. Yeah. Well, I mean we just talked about the humane reason And You know, you can you can go overboard with that but like like animals aren't humans but but still I mean we're supposed to take care of animals and so A stressed animal does not give you the nutrition that that a relaxed healthy animal does but just just in terms of what they're getting I mean an egg can only give you the nutrition that the chicken got first You can only get nutrition from meat that the animal got first so when you look at the I don't have the exact numbers, but when you look at the nutritional difference between True pasture raised eggs like the chickens are on pasture all the time Versus you know, yeah in the cages We're not talking like small increase. We're talking like Exponential differences in like vitamin a beta carotene Major it's it's your micro Nutrients, but the the differences are huge like three four hundred percent It's interesting to think about the stress level affecting the nutrient. You know, I mean when I'm stressed I'm tense and I don't eat good When I'm anxiety, you know, I mean just not not saying like I would taste better. That's a little cannibalistic And I'm not sure, you know When I should say maybe more accurately at the quality of the of the meat in particular sure a stressed, right? Yeah, not necessarily the nutritional. Yeah value. Yeah, but yeah what they're what they're eating. I mean, that's Yeah, what they get is what you get. Yeah Yeah, that's good. I another benefit I thought for those who haven't and you know They think they got that weird neighbor that like us that in town that has chickens It is kind of contagious our neighbor got chickens because of us getting chickens And he still has chickens and we've not come back yet. We share back. Yeah And so we every day I still see his chickens running around there and I miss having them But that experience of a kid just seeing where food comes from. Yeah, I think is a big plus Yeah, that was a cool experience for us with our girls being in town not getting to Be around that stuff. It was good exposure of yeah, like this is where it really comes from. You can't do meat things in town But you know at their yeah, we're always very transparent about we drive by McDonald's or we're getting a burger. What are you eating? Tell us what it is. It's a cow. Yeah, dad. Stop No, you're eating a cow like it's I think it's important to know. Yeah what you're consuming As far as us being a model parents of where it comes from and what we let them consume. We're awful, but Pretend that we consume very healthy, but I think it's important for yeah to know where meat comes from and yeah that and How harvest is done, right? But yeah, I think just seeing food and Being responsible for raising something that produces something that you eat just like gardening I think it's just healthy. It doesn't need to replace everything or you don't need to be a homesteader Well, I think that's a lot of urban areas are saying you can have six hens now. Mm-hmm and that's what I was gonna say like I love With a family can can live on a homestead and raise all their own food, whatever But the reality is not everyone can do that and I think that's what I like about this this product I didn't get into this because I like manufacturing I got into it because what was compelling to me about this product was was that Factor and just getting people connected to their food source Eating more healthily Connecting with their family over this project So I was I was actually passionate about regenerative agriculture long before I got into the chicken school, particularly Yeah, and certainly before the manufacturing part. Yeah. I do you live on land? Are you in? On like are you in the country or do you live in town somewhere? Yeah, my wife and I were my family We rent a about four or five acre cool home in the country Where my parents live actually where I grew up is a 40 acre farm where we have our shop So that's a nice amount four or five acres pretty easy to keep up with but also Like yeah enough room to do. Yeah, we've got a garden we have a Memory carton chalet with 12 chickens. Yeah, two ducks. Nice They're just for entertainment. They haven't given us any eggs or anything. They don't give you eggs. No, but I Eggs are different aren't they? They are. Yeah. Yeah, everybody's favorite. Yeah, but duck fats amazing I will say that duck fat. Have you ever cooked with duck fat? I have not. Yeah buy some duck fat. It's yeah And cook it cook it with the steak or something but Apparently I learned from someone that high-end restaurants often use duck fat and a lot of their courses like as far as instead of like You know butler butter oil and a pan sautéing things with duck fat, but it's it's real good. Nice Yeah chicken anything you're cooking on in a skillet or a griddle or flat-top like that It's real good. So yeah, if you duck dies if you can harvest Just go to the store I thought worth the effort. Yeah Yeah, we've thought I've thought about raising ducks for me, but it's it's a pretty niche market. Oh, I bet I like that, too I've had some bad luck, but I've had some good duck. Yeah But yeah, you don't see it. I mean like not much ducks rabbits things of that sort. Yeah, especially our rabbits We raised meat rabbits way back in the day, yeah my family did a little homesteading when we were little we had chickens and a Couple meat cows that we raised when we lived in Derby and we had goats we milked Yeah, those were do the best days. Yeah, those were just that was such a cool experience that I'm Pretty aware. My kids will never have Yeah, and there's places we can take them to get experiences but But that that was neat, but it was a ton of work. Oh, yeah I mean, it's hard everything depreciates so fast the thing you build the milking station You build for the goat is in a year. You're like, thanks for falling apart. Yeah Well, what else you guys wanting to homestead? Well, we I mean right now we have About 300 laying hens. We've got a larger flock that we pasture So we sell eggs there at our farm How many eggs do you get from three? Middle of the summer we'd be getting around 17 dozen a day. Hey right now. It's more like 12 or 13. Sure. So Well, yeah, it's a lot. What do you sell the dozen of eggs a dozen eggs for 350? I know that's a good price. Oh, that's and that's you know It's it's about supply and demand we got 300 hens before we got enough customers to meet the supplier, yeah, but So Yeah, I would like to expand that we'd like to raise some more meat chickens I did a little experimenting with that last year or two years ago But in terms of You know, my parents raised me there raised us there I come from a big family How many kids 10? Yeah. Yeah, so we had a we had a milk cow that we milked by hand. We had Some chickens for a while, but but dad wasn't really a farmer And so it was just kind of a thing he did again for us and and yeah, so grateful They have grown up with that but at this point we're kind of dabbling and And You know, hopefully in the next couple of years able to expand that part of it do some more love it How do you where do the 300? laying hens Do they go into a barn or they just always outside? Well It's interesting. We have a lot of him. It is a lot of hens We had we started off last spring Got them, you know delivered as almost ready to lay pullets and So we had taken an old old hay rack. Oh Hey wagon and converted it put roosts in there and a roof and sides, but it's wide open still like Completely open. So then we set up a perimeter about a hundred by hundred that we out in the pasture of Electrified poultry netting so that keeps out all the ground predators Interest and Then Obviously that won't keep out Hawks and owls. So we have a guard goose in with them and She'll keep away all sorts of things really even you if she wants to yeah They can be mean she's kind of a yeah, she's kind of I mean, yep, right So that's her pretty like warn him that that cuz I we had hot we had a hawk take out two of our chickens Yeah, but one of them started calling. Yep, and they all started running the coop, but they didn't all make it. Yeah So there's yeah, they'll they'll warn them. Yeah, that goose starts screaming see better than a chicken I don't know if it sees better, but it sort of sounds the alarm and it's I mean, it's louder than them Yeah louder, maybe a little more attuned to that. They'll scream when we come out But I think I mean part of it sounding the alarm part of it's just that Sure, so Kind of depends how hungry they are. But typically they're not the wire that keeps the ground animals out. It's Is it underground is it above ground? It's above ground. It's about 42 inches tall 48 and we're in there and it's just it's a mesh so Two by three mesh, okay with electrified poly wire all the way through it So the chickens don't go past that point. No, okay, it keeps them in too. Yeah I've never heard of that. So yeah, so then you know, you don't have to keep you can have them out on pasture Not worry about getting them inside at night. What's funny to me is that now during the winter they do need a little more shelter So we have an area in our barn with deep bedding So they can go in there and be warm half of them still sleep out on the ground. Just huddle Yeah, there's used to be outside in the middle of freezing weather Wow. So it's been a pretty mild winter, I guess Yeah That's Yeah, yeah, you've not dealt with a lot of I mean obviously stuff gets sick or doesn't we've had some success early on we had We had a number of them die from sickness Yeah, not but they're ground predators no not ground predators we had The one day found a About a 12-inch snapping turtle tangled up in it. So that's as far as he got. Yeah, that's a thing would he take out a chicken a Snapping turtle if he was fast enough, but yeah, they could probably couldn't that'd be annoying, but I know we have coyotes around Oh, yeah, we've never had anything. That's impressive. Yeah. Yeah, that seems like a feast. Yeah and a fox Yeah, Fox raccoons are After chickens, yeah. Yeah interesting. Huh? Crazy. Yeah. So yeah, what's explain your market kind of went on a Trail there and homesteading, but let's go back to the business model. Yeah Your your market where you're shipping to you ship the product. Mm-hmm. Your price has it is free shipping, correct? Yeah, it's built-in. So when you go to the website you see that price point that is shipped to you. Yep Where you sell the majority of them. Is there a couple states that are um, yeah, we've sent a lot to Texas Florida Tennessee This time of year. It's mostly southern states But we've yeah, we've sent more and more. We've sent a few to Wisconsin few up in the like New England states Just sent one to Seattle a couple weeks ago. So yeah, we'll ship them all over Complicated shipping too because these things are big and they have the so do you have like real large skids like like custom skids? We build. Yeah, we build crates to put them in. Oh great. Yeah, so they're they're disassembled We stack the panels in there and all the components so and instructions. Yeah. Yep What they assemble 100% of it or just some of it We put together as much as we can but yeah, it's I mean it's you know set up the four sides and bolt them together Yeah, but the roof on screw stuff said I mean it will take a couple hours, right? But it's not building it from scratch. No, no, and it's high quality material What what's the most common feedback you hear from customers that like your product that like our product? I I think the two big things are like Like we've been talking about the predator Protection. It's amazing to me how many people Give us a call after They've lost their chickens and arrest and like they're shopping like okay. I need to do something different Interesting because you know a weasel got in and killed 30 chickens. Yeah, so That happens a lot. But the big the other big thing is just So easy to move, you know, we've got anybody from you know, five to eighty five moving these things Yeah, and that's so cool that all four wheels click up like that. Yeah, I didn't realize that What what What's the coolest just review you've heard about it, is there any like Customer special note or funny or what's what's the most interesting thing you've heard from a customer buying coup hmm We had one just last year up in Massachusetts I think that like She'd been looking at our coupes for a while and then found a classic used on marketplace. Okay, and Mm-hmm, which also tells you something. Yeah, no getting them used Selling you a coupe. She just gets haha. Yeah So she found a used classical marketplace and then she got it started using and she was like, oh if I didn't know I'd have bought this long ago. So then she bought a chalet But another one, but another one bought a chalet from us then so Yeah, that's pretty cool. She was going on all the Facebook groups and like You know, she's like I'm gonna tell him like, you know got a people asking like how often do you clean your cubes? It's like every day because it only takes 30 seconds and like, you know, she's like, yeah. Yeah On that note, actually, I'm glad you said that another pain point when cleaning a chicken coop is cleaning the roost Oh, yeah. So what's that process look like? With your setup. Yeah, so that's another another difference between ours and a lot of others is that we have a second story So they're most chicken tractors that I've seen they they're just on the grass the whole time, right, which is fine But having that extra square footage to be able to get up up in the top story And then we have perforated flooring. So the plastic flooring is like three-quarter inch holes So most a lot of it'll drop through and then just a quick scrape it with a hoe or something Yeah Open the is there a side panel where you get where you get the eggs Is that where you clean from or do you have to go in the coop? well, the The egg door actually is just a little sliding door on the back right by the nest box So you can access that from the outside, but the front of them. They've got two big swinging doors So you never actually unless you're my Little boys, you never actually go inside there Sure, but but you can reach everything just from the front, okay That's cool, yeah, that's awesome getting me excited about chickens again Timothy You are going to I just gotta get now now that you've mentioned that the ground could be better and we cannot let them Free graze that's gonna up our odds. Yeah, and then the timing is perfect, right? Because the I mean we can get the when we get to the Time of year, you know the spring, you know, you raise them and then get them through that hard part You don't get any eggs that first season, but yeah Yeah, right But at least get them matured enough and healthy enough before the first winter and it's smooth sailing from there Do you have a recommendation where people should buy chickens by the way by chicken asking for a friend? Yeah. Well You can get them at farm stores track to supply bomb guards, but there are There are some really good online hatcheries, that'll just ship them to you And heard about that. I've never done it a guy that I work out with does it? Yeah tackle hatchery is a good one McMurray Yeah, there's tons of them if you're buying a chicken for You're buying a chicken that you like to look at and like how it Whatever reacts or does life You can buy a chicken because it's just so friendly and a good pet and buy a chicken. That's a good layer Those about the three things you look at when you're buying a chicken like what does it look like? Is it a good pet? Yeah, is it a good layer? You can't have all three probably like it's it's hard The the hybrids that are bred for laying are gonna be a little more flighty I mean, they might look good, but they're not they're not gonna be your really beautiful heritage breeds But the technical definition of a heritage breed is a multi-purpose so like it's it's not a hybrid that's been bred for for meat production like a Cornish like yeah, where it'll have a larger breasts or It's not bred for one or the other it's a heritage Heritage genetics. So like you're barred Plymouth Rock your Orpington's sort of those kind of quintessential Traditional chickens, they're gonna be a lot more docile more beautiful They're gonna be the good pets. You just won't get as many eggs. Gotcha, or as quickly You just won't get as many eggs. Gotcha They're gonna be the good pets you just won't get as many eggs gotcha or as quickly here's another little tangent maybe but a misconception Every chicken Within you know a range, but they basically all have the same number of eggs But the real hybrids will just lay faster so the hybrid the hybrids will lay, you know almost every day for the first year and a half and Then they'll be they'll peter out really quickly and her ass so The heritage is heritage. They'll stay steady. They might lay 50% year-round, but then the last for five years So interesting kind of depends what your priorities are. Yeah Yeah, the priority is they never die and they never stop laying eggs Sounds like No, that's super helpful. Yeah, huh That's cool, what's your favorite breed of chicken all around? Just cuz I'm a sucker for the yeah for the below the yellow or Orpington Yeah, so I said buff Orpington or the lavender lavender is just it's similar I think it's a buff Orpington was the best chicken. We've ever had great yellow It was like it was she was we called her yellow. She was crazy smart Kind of she thought the box off. She's the last one to die from the Fox She was warning him going around. She would not go hide She was like, but she was like the little leader of that Flock. Yeah, and she was smart. That was the chicken that else trained, but I was the best chicken I was hearing big name in In regenerative agriculture was Joel Salatin polyface farm in Virginia and he they they've started Raising their own laying hens like breeding breeding their laying hens and hatching their own and For about seven years now and they've seen an improvement in genetics For just being healthier and being smarter Because the ones that survive are the ones who saw a hawk and ran for cover, right? Yeah. So, oh, yeah So, you know, they're they're weeding out Interest the bad genetics just by rebuying make sense. Yeah, so whoever makes it. Yeah Yeah, it's like dog breeding. I mean, yeah, you look at them and decide survival and continue reading. You're not smartest. Yeah That's awesome Yeah, talk about the Growth strategy now you just websites redone. Please go check out their website egg carton calm Egg cart n.com and we'll put that link obviously in this description You have some really cool features Do you? Like because at the end of the day This is all get this in front of as many people as you can that might do this Yeah, I take interest that have already done it or have never done it Do you think you're your ideal audience is people that have never done it or people who have already done it? Hmm Um, there's some of both but it kind of depends on the personality There's there's we have a lot of first-timers who are like I want to do it But I just need to know that I can make it work. Sure so we have some of that we've had a number of sales in the last year to Retirees a couple who's just like want to keep chickens. We want to want it to be easy. Yeah So there's a variety But generally I mean we've had some, you know homesteading families buy them, but often aren't your hardcore homesteaders are not going to be the ones who are buying a $4,000 coupe, right? They're gonna build something build it. Maybe my big they might buy our lift kit or wheel kit. Yeah, but So there's a bit of a different market there. Yeah, that makes sense So yeah trying to tap into some of the homesteading shows Things like that And I think messagings key and understanding just like how you explain those for I've been talking for a while now But that hadn't clicked yet. Yeah pun intended that those four wheels click click the gear and you just go Yeah, that's pretty cool. And I have seen a video where that's happening. I guess it just wasn't Registering to me how cool that is Because that's a heavy. I mean how heavy are the biggest coupes? Well Not as heavy as 150 pounds 200 pounds, but the biggest ones the biggest ones more like 400 400 pounds but Yeah, I mean it's it's all lever action. You got some leverage behind it. So yeah, that's yeah Yeah people understanding that those values That's the hardest part. How do you how do they understand everything and right 10 seconds, right? It's all you got the attention span is 10 seconds, let's see on some ad or at some show walking by your booth What's been the they call? What's been the biggest selling point? Like what's what's a common reoccurring thing you say or people mention? About why they bought it in the first place. Yeah I Think I mean we talked about the predator predator proof. Yeah, but the two big things I think they come up even more than that is just the ease of moving it and durability. Yeah make sense That's where it appeals most durable easiest to move. Yeah. Yeah, that's where it really appeals to the Families who don't have time to build one every year, right, you know, yeah yeah, that's Quite the undertaking at last question on the how long does it take to build a coop? There's obviously a ton of materials that are going into it, but the actual yeah turn around. Well, there's so many components that We don't build a coop start to finish we build batches of components. So that makes you know, we're building 50 to 100 of love you the the front lift system and then the handles and the doors and each of the aluminum frames, so So then we're then it's assembly stocking those pieces and then Putting them together into crate to ship them that makes it so we try to keep inventory around to where we can ship Within a couple days. Yeah, but doesn't always that doesn't always happen. Yeah Well order too many everyone so they have to build up more inventory in 2026. Yes Now it's awesome. I'm excited for this year for you. I think there's ton of opportunity and it's obviously just finding finding that Perfect place for growth and the right messaging and The right connections and partnerships, but it's a good product and I'm excited to get one Haley I know you're gonna listen this episode. We need to get chickens again. It's time Just just for it. My birthday's coming up May. That's my birthday. That's what I want for my birthday Haley I want a egg carton chicken tractor We've had a few customers blows me away when people are like, oh, I had this friend who moved in I got her this like housewarming gift like $3,000 housewarming it More power to you. Yeah Hey, I appreciate you coming on. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me