Data Centers and Small Towns: What Communities Need to Know Before Saying Yes | Ep 42

The Killer Growth Podcast starts now. The Killer Growth Podcast starts now. » » What's up, guys? Samuel here with Killer » What's up, guys? Samuel here with Killer Growth Podcast. Today I'm hanging out Growth Podcast. Today I'm hanging out Growth Podcast. Today I'm hanging out with Tyler Norris. with Tyler Norris. with Tyler Norris. » What's up? We're going to talk about a » What's up? We're going to talk about a » What's up? We're going to talk about a trendy topic that's happening in the trendy topic that's happening in the trendy topic that's happening in the nation. Porcelain dolls. nation. Porcelain dolls. nation. Porcelain dolls. » Porcelain dolls. You ever heard of them? » Porcelain dolls. You ever heard of them? » Porcelain dolls. You ever heard of them? Check them out. They're going for Check them out. They're going for Check them out. They're going for nothing on eBay. nothing on eBay. nothing on eBay. That was a real thing. That was a real thing. That was a real thing. » That was. Today we're going to be » That was. Today we're going to be » That was. Today we're going to be talking about data centers. Hot topic in talking about data centers. Hot topic in talking about data centers. Hot topic in the news, it's a hot topic the news, it's a hot topic the news, it's a hot topic everywhere. At grandma's house. It's a everywhere. At grandma's house. It's a everywhere. At grandma's house. It's a hot topic at grandma's house. It's a hot topic at grandma's house. It's a hot topic at grandma's house. It's a hot topic in our local town. And we thought topic in our local town. And we thought topic in our local town. And we thought it'd be good to broach that topic. So, it'd be good to broach that topic. So, it'd be good to broach that topic. So, today we're talking about something today we're talking about something today we're talking about something that's quietly reshaping small towns that's quietly reshaping small towns that's quietly reshaping small towns across America, across America, across America, data centers. You've probably heard the data centers. You've probably heard the data centers. You've probably heard the headlines, they use too much power, they headlines, they use too much power, they headlines, they use too much power, they drain water, they don't create jobs. drain water, they don't create jobs. drain water, they don't create jobs. Some people think they're a goldmine, Some people think they're a goldmine, Some people think they're a goldmine, others think they're a mistake waiting others think they're a mistake waiting others think they're a mistake waiting to happen. The truth is, it's neither. to happen. The truth is, it's neither. to happen. The truth is, it's neither. I'm going to put a question mark instead I'm going to put a question mark instead I'm going to put a question mark instead of a statement. of a statement. of a statement. » Neither? Neither? » Neither? Neither? » Neither? Neither? » Yeah. Uh data centers are » Yeah. Uh data centers are » Yeah. Uh data centers are infrastructure, just like railroads, infrastructure, just like railroads, infrastructure, just like railroads, highways, power plants. They are the highways, power plants. They are the highways, power plants. They are the previous generation of infrastructure. previous generation of infrastructure. previous generation of infrastructure. They power the internet, AI, cloud They power the internet, AI, cloud They power the internet, AI, cloud computing, basically everything we rely computing, basically everything we rely computing, basically everything we rely on today. Mhm. Uh is all powered by data on today. Mhm. Uh is all powered by data on today. Mhm. Uh is all powered by data centers. They've been around a long centers. They've been around a long centers. They've been around a long time. They have been decades now. time. They have been decades now. time. They have been decades now. Decades. Uh right now there's a massive Decades. Uh right now there's a massive Decades. Uh right now there's a massive build-out happening. Demand is build-out happening. Demand is build-out happening. Demand is exploding. That means small towns, exploding. That means small towns, exploding. That means small towns, including ones like ours, are suddenly including ones like ours, are suddenly including ones like ours, are suddenly being considered for projects Yep. that being considered for projects Yep. that being considered for projects Yep. that would have never been on the radar 10 would have never been on the radar 10 would have never been on the radar 10 years ago. years ago. years ago. » No. Easily. Yeah. So, the real question » No. Easily. Yeah. So, the real question » No. Easily. Yeah. So, the real question isn't are data centers good or bad? isn't are data centers good or bad? isn't are data centers good or bad? » Yes. Right? They are essential to the » Yes. Right? They are essential to the » Yes. Right? They are essential to the current world's infrastructure. The real current world's infrastructure. The real current world's infrastructure. The real question is, under what conditions do question is, under what conditions do question is, under what conditions do they become a win for a community? they become a win for a community? they become a win for a community? » Mhm. And we're going to be talking about » Mhm. And we're going to be talking about » Mhm. And we're going to be talking about that. Because they can bring real that. Because they can bring real that. Because they can bring real benefits, tax revenue, jobs, benefits, tax revenue, jobs, benefits, tax revenue, jobs, infrastructure upgrades, and new infrastructure upgrades, and new infrastructure upgrades, and new economic activity. Mhm. Uh but they also economic activity. Mhm. Uh but they also economic activity. Mhm. Uh but they also come with real trade-offs. And that's come with real trade-offs. And that's come with real trade-offs. And that's the drama right now. That's what's the drama right now. That's what's the drama right now. That's what's making the news. Yes. Power usage, land making the news. Yes. Power usage, land making the news. Yes. Power usage, land use, noise, the risk of making a bad use, noise, the risk of making a bad use, noise, the risk of making a bad deal a town doesn't fully understand it deal a town doesn't fully understand it deal a town doesn't fully understand it or make a proper agreement with this or make a proper agreement with this or make a proper agreement with this massive infrastructure. And they are massive infrastructure. And they are massive infrastructure. And they are massive. Yeah, they are. massive. Yeah, they are. massive. Yeah, they are. » These hyperscalers are » These hyperscalers are » These hyperscalers are uh living up to their name. They That's uh living up to their name. They That's uh living up to their name. They That's a name, by the way. a name, by the way. a name, by the way. » Hyperscaler, yeah. No kidding. That just » Hyperscaler, yeah. No kidding. That just » Hyperscaler, yeah. No kidding. That just sounds intimidating. sounds intimidating. sounds intimidating. So, there's a lot of misinformation out So, there's a lot of misinformation out So, there's a lot of misinformation out there. Some of it's based on real there. Some of it's based on real there. Some of it's based on real concerns, some of it's based on fear, uh concerns, some of it's based on fear, uh concerns, some of it's based on fear, uh and, you know, potentially and, you know, potentially and, you know, potentially misinformation or old information misinformation or old information misinformation or old information that isn't relevant to the current that isn't relevant to the current that isn't relevant to the current technology. technology. technology. » Mhm. Uh so, today we're going to cut » Mhm. Uh so, today we're going to cut » Mhm. Uh so, today we're going to cut through that to the best of our through that to the best of our through that to the best of our abilities. abilities. abilities. » Let's do it. Uh by no means am I an » Let's do it. Uh by no means am I an » Let's do it. Uh by no means am I an expert. By no means is Norris. He's a expert. By no means is Norris. He's a expert. By no means is Norris. He's a little more than me. Little more. He's little more than me. Little more. He's little more than me. Little more. He's going to be going to be going to be going to going to going to » be real humble. He's actually been to » be real humble. He's actually been to » be real humble. He's actually been to one. Uh we're going to talk about what's one. Uh we're going to talk about what's one. Uh we're going to talk about what's actually true, what's overstated, and actually true, what's overstated, and actually true, what's overstated, and what small towns or cities should be what small towns or cities should be what small towns or cities should be paying attention to if a data center paying attention to if a data center paying attention to if a data center ever comes knocking. ever comes knocking. ever comes knocking. » Yeah. Uh not trying to hype this, build » Yeah. Uh not trying to hype this, build » Yeah. Uh not trying to hype this, build fear, just create some context for the fear, just create some context for the fear, just create some context for the current reality we're in. Yeah. So, here current reality we're in. Yeah. So, here current reality we're in. Yeah. So, here we go. we go. we go. » Wow, nice intro. I like that. Yeah, that » Wow, nice intro. I like that. Yeah, that » Wow, nice intro. I like that. Yeah, that was good. was good. was good. » » » » Yeah. I I read a lot of that, if you » Yeah. I I read a lot of that, if you » Yeah. I I read a lot of that, if you couldn't tell. But I tried to add some couldn't tell. But I tried to add some couldn't tell. But I tried to add some theatrics. theatrics. theatrics. » It was nice. Those were good theatrics, » It was nice. Those were good theatrics, » It was nice. Those were good theatrics, yeah. yeah. yeah. And you and I are just coming at this as And you and I are just coming at this as And you and I are just coming at this as citizens of El Dorado. We've been here citizens of El Dorado. We've been here citizens of El Dorado. We've been here been here my whole life for generations. been here my whole life for generations. been here my whole life for generations. You've been here for a good portion of You've been here for a good portion of You've been here for a good portion of your life. I'm old. your life. I'm old. your life. I'm old. » Yeah, me too. My gosh, we've got kids » Yeah, me too. My gosh, we've got kids » Yeah, me too. My gosh, we've got kids here. We love the community. We just here. We love the community. We just here. We love the community. We just want to try to try to figure out what is want to try to try to figure out what is want to try to try to figure out what is best for the community in the midst of best for the community in the midst of best for the community in the midst of all of this stuff, right? all of this stuff, right? all of this stuff, right? » Exactly. » Exactly. » Exactly. » Yeah, yeah. So, we're not trying to push » Yeah, yeah. So, we're not trying to push » Yeah, yeah. So, we're not trying to push any kind of giant agenda. I mean any kind of giant agenda. I mean any kind of giant agenda. I mean » No. What » No. What » No. What » The agenda is what's best for a » The agenda is what's best for a » The agenda is what's best for a community with this opportunity, not community with this opportunity, not community with this opportunity, not like a like a like a » Right. This you could put this in the » Right. This you could put this in the » Right. This you could put this in the box of this is a threat to every box of this is a threat to every box of this is a threat to every community across the country, or you community across the country, or you community across the country, or you could say, "Okay, how could this be an could say, "Okay, how could this be an could say, "Okay, how could this be an opportunity?" Right. That's probably opportunity?" Right. That's probably opportunity?" Right. That's probably where You can put it in the this is a where You can put it in the this is a where You can put it in the this is a goldmine, you should just say yes goldmine, you should just say yes goldmine, you should just say yes whenever they come a knocking, which is whenever they come a knocking, which is whenever they come a knocking, which is also not the solution. also not the solution. also not the solution. » they say just for the quick buck. » they say just for the quick buck. » they say just for the quick buck. Exactly. Yes. And that's a real risk, Exactly. Yes. And that's a real risk, Exactly. Yes. And that's a real risk, which is which is which is uh a lot of the case studies and news uh a lot of the case studies and news uh a lot of the case studies and news reports out there cities and communities reports out there cities and communities reports out there cities and communities doing it the wrong way. doing it the wrong way. doing it the wrong way. » Yes, and they did that especially early » Yes, and they did that especially early » Yes, and they did that especially early on, and then on, and then on, and then » had no clue. They had no clue, and then » had no clue. They had no clue, and then » had no clue. They had no clue, and then things went fast, and things weren't things went fast, and things weren't things went fast, and things weren't done correctly, and things happened, I done correctly, and things happened, I done correctly, and things happened, I think, in the midst of that. Yeah. For think, in the midst of that. Yeah. For think, in the midst of that. Yeah. For sure. Will you kick it You kick us off. sure. Will you kick it You kick us off. sure. Will you kick it You kick us off. Yeah, I'll kick us off. What do you want Yeah, I'll kick us off. What do you want Yeah, I'll kick us off. What do you want to talk about Yeah, to talk about Yeah, to talk about Yeah, um um um so you had mentioned I have gotten to be so you had mentioned I have gotten to be so you had mentioned I have gotten to be in these before. It's been several years in these before. It's been several years in these before. It's been several years ago, but back when I had my business out ago, but back when I had my business out ago, but back when I had my business out on the East Coast in the early 2000s, I on the East Coast in the early 2000s, I on the East Coast in the early 2000s, I got to actually go to some of these data got to actually go to some of these data got to actually go to some of these data centers, which was super cool. We our centers, which was super cool. We our centers, which was super cool. We our business I can't remember the first one business I can't remember the first one business I can't remember the first one that I had ever gone in, like what the that I had ever gone in, like what the that I had ever gone in, like what the name of it was. But the second one that name of it was. But the second one that name of it was. But the second one that I had gone in and done some work in was I had gone in and done some work in was I had gone in and done some work in was Equinix. And if anybody's been Equinix. And if anybody's been Equinix. And if anybody's been researching any of this data center researching any of this data center researching any of this data center stuff, you know the Equinix name. That's stuff, you know the Equinix name. That's stuff, you know the Equinix name. That's been out there. They've been out there been out there. They've been out there been out there. They've been out there for decades. Uh they're co-location for decades. Uh they're co-location for decades. Uh they're co-location facilities. So, facilities. So, facilities. So, uh we had servers inside of a cage. uh we had servers inside of a cage. uh we had servers inside of a cage. Which means co-location. This is a Which means co-location. This is a Which means co-location. This is a different type of data center that can different type of data center that can different type of data center that can be shared. So, you lease space. be shared. So, you lease space. be shared. So, you lease space. » So, it's not like Meta where it's all » So, it's not like Meta where it's all » So, it's not like Meta where it's all Meta's stuff inside of it. You can lease Meta's stuff inside of it. You can lease Meta's stuff inside of it. You can lease They're called cages, essentially, and They're called cages, essentially, and They're called cages, essentially, and they're exactly what it sounds like. they're exactly what it sounds like. they're exactly what it sounds like. They're metal cages with sides and doors They're metal cages with sides and doors They're metal cages with sides and doors on them. And inside those you have your on them. And inside those you have your on them. And inside those you have your server equipment in there, your racks of server equipment in there, your racks of server equipment in there, your racks of equipment. They can vary in cage sizes equipment. They can vary in cage sizes equipment. They can vary in cage sizes by ever what you want to pay for. And by ever what you want to pay for. And by ever what you want to pay for. And the interconnects that come into them the interconnects that come into them the interconnects that come into them for the internet for them, all of that for the internet for them, all of that for the internet for them, all of that stuff varies. But we had um yeah, we stuff varies. But we had um yeah, we stuff varies. But we had um yeah, we were working with another hosting were working with another hosting were working with another hosting company at the time, and we had some company at the time, and we had some company at the time, and we had some servers in these cages. And so I got to servers in these cages. And so I got to servers in these cages. And so I got to actually go into experience these actually go into experience these actually go into experience these things. And it's things. And it's things. And it's I wish everybody could experience it, I wish everybody could experience it, I wish everybody could experience it, because it's just a fascinating thing to because it's just a fascinating thing to because it's just a fascinating thing to walk through, to know how much data is walk through, to know how much data is walk through, to know how much data is moving through this thing. moving through this thing. moving through this thing. And that these are crucial for I mean, And that these are crucial for I mean, And that these are crucial for I mean, they were crucial 20 years ago. Now they were crucial 20 years ago. Now they were crucial 20 years ago. Now they're indispensable. You have to have they're indispensable. You have to have they're indispensable. You have to have them. But to be able to walk through them. But to be able to walk through them. But to be able to walk through them and actually see the inner them and actually see the inner them and actually see the inner workings of how these things work here, workings of how these things work here, workings of how these things work here, what it sounds like on the inside, cuz what it sounds like on the inside, cuz what it sounds like on the inside, cuz it is noisy on the inside. I mean, it's it is noisy on the inside. I mean, it's it is noisy on the inside. I mean, it's not deafening, but if you're going to be not deafening, but if you're going to be not deafening, but if you're going to be in there for a while, in there for a while, in there for a while, » Sure. you want something to help » Sure. you want something to help » Sure. you want something to help counteract the noise, because it's like counteract the noise, because it's like counteract the noise, because it's like a thousands of hair dryers going inside a thousands of hair dryers going inside a thousands of hair dryers going inside of these things. And the heat analogy of of these things. And the heat analogy of of these things. And the heat analogy of a hair dryer is also, I think, correct a hair dryer is also, I think, correct a hair dryer is also, I think, correct in those that context, too. And so in those that context, too. And so in those that context, too. And so it's it's pretty neat thing to see. The it's it's pretty neat thing to see. The it's it's pretty neat thing to see. The doomsday people are going to clip that. doomsday people are going to clip that. doomsday people are going to clip that. » Oh yeah, and that'll be the thing. Yes, » Oh yeah, and that'll be the thing. Yes, » Oh yeah, and that'll be the thing. Yes, Tyler Norris says it's a thousand hair Tyler Norris says it's a thousand hair Tyler Norris says it's a thousand hair dryers. dryers. dryers. » This is the noise. This is the noise. » This is the noise. This is the noise. » This is the noise. This is the noise. This is the noise. This is the noise. This is the noise. » forever. But I remember this one was out » forever. But I remember this one was out » forever. But I remember this one was out in Ashburn, Virginia, which is now like in Ashburn, Virginia, which is now like in Ashburn, Virginia, which is now like the data center capital of the world, the data center capital of the world, the data center capital of the world, which we can talk about, right? Well, in which we can talk about, right? Well, in which we can talk about, right? Well, in Virginia in general, but Ashburn, I Virginia in general, but Ashburn, I Virginia in general, but Ashburn, I think they say around has 200 data think they say around has 200 data think they say around has 200 data centers in Ashburn, which is just wild. centers in Ashburn, which is just wild. centers in Ashburn, which is just wild. And they've been building there forever. And they've been building there forever. And they've been building there forever. Um but what was my point? Um but what was my point? Um but what was my point? » The noise, yeah. I remember the stark » The noise, yeah. I remember the stark » The noise, yeah. I remember the stark though, and though, and though, and people can say what they want to say, people can say what they want to say, people can say what they want to say, but I remember the stark reality of but I remember the stark reality of but I remember the stark reality of being in there. being in there. being in there. And it's it's several layers to get And it's it's several layers to get And it's it's several layers to get inside of one of these things. You don't inside of one of these things. You don't inside of one of these things. You don't walk right through the front door and walk right through the front door and walk right through the front door and there's a bunch of servers. There's there's a bunch of servers. There's there's a bunch of servers. There's several layers of security, a man trap several layers of security, a man trap several layers of security, a man trap you have to go through different Anyway. you have to go through different Anyway. you have to go through different Anyway. But being outside, how quiet it was But being outside, how quiet it was But being outside, how quiet it was versus being inside, how noisy it was. versus being inside, how noisy it was. versus being inside, how noisy it was. And it was a really unassuming building, And it was a really unassuming building, And it was a really unassuming building, too. Both of them, I remember, were too. Both of them, I remember, were too. Both of them, I remember, were pretty unassuming to the point of pretty unassuming to the point of pretty unassuming to the point of I remember even up to a few years ago, I remember even up to a few years ago, I remember even up to a few years ago, before all of this data center stuff before all of this data center stuff before all of this data center stuff started exploding, you would talk to started exploding, you would talk to started exploding, you would talk to people about data centers, and they people about data centers, and they people about data centers, and they would go, "Yeah, I found out I had one." would go, "Yeah, I found out I had one." would go, "Yeah, I found out I had one." These were in bigger cities, but they These were in bigger cities, but they These were in bigger cities, but they didn't even know. They're like, "I had didn't even know. They're like, "I had didn't even know. They're like, "I had one in my town, and I always wondered one in my town, and I always wondered one in my town, and I always wondered what that building was." And then I what that building was." And then I what that building was." And then I found out it was a data center, and I found out it was a data center, and I found out it was a data center, and I didn't had no idea that's what it was. didn't had no idea that's what it was. didn't had no idea that's what it was. » It's like Amazon fulfillment centers » It's like Amazon fulfillment centers » It's like Amazon fulfillment centers without their without their without their » Without their name on the building. » Without their name on the building. » Without their name on the building. You're like, "What's up with those You're like, "What's up with those You're like, "What's up with those dudes?" Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and people dudes?" Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and people dudes?" Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and people didn't even realize it beforehand. Um didn't even realize it beforehand. Um didn't even realize it beforehand. Um and I remember thinking that, you'd walk and I remember thinking that, you'd walk and I remember thinking that, you'd walk up to it, and it was just so unassuming. up to it, and it was just so unassuming. up to it, and it was just so unassuming. And they built them that way on purpose, And they built them that way on purpose, And they built them that way on purpose, because they didn't really want people because they didn't really want people because they didn't really want people knowing what was going on in those knowing what was going on in those knowing what was going on in those facilities, because a lot of crazy facilities, because a lot of crazy facilities, because a lot of crazy terrorist type people out there who terrorist type people out there who terrorist type people out there who think they're making it into those think they're making it into those think they're making it into those facilities, they can screw up a lot of facilities, they can screw up a lot of facilities, they can screw up a lot of stuff and destroy a lot of data. So, stuff and destroy a lot of data. So, stuff and destroy a lot of data. So, they always wanted to kind of fly under they always wanted to kind of fly under they always wanted to kind of fly under the radar, data centers in general, the radar, data centers in general, the radar, data centers in general, especially those co-location facilities, especially those co-location facilities, especially those co-location facilities, cuz they're liable for all of that data, cuz they're liable for all of that data, cuz they're liable for all of that data, all that equipment inside of those all that equipment inside of those all that equipment inside of those facilities. Um facilities. Um facilities. Um So, yeah, super fascinating uh So, yeah, super fascinating uh So, yeah, super fascinating uh experience getting to go through those. experience getting to go through those. experience getting to go through those. On top of that, I also in the mid-2000s On top of that, I also in the mid-2000s On top of that, I also in the mid-2000s got to be a part of a startup that was got to be a part of a startup that was got to be a part of a startup that was planning a data center build in the planning a data center build in the planning a data center build in the Midwest for a couple years. Um and we Midwest for a couple years. Um and we Midwest for a couple years. Um and we dug deep into it, and I really got to dug deep into it, and I really got to dug deep into it, and I really got to experience and understand the inner experience and understand the inner experience and understand the inner workings of these things, and how workings of these things, and how workings of these things, and how they all work, and what all they all work, and what all they all work, and what all the consequences and the positives and consequences and the positives and consequences and the positives and the and the negatives are of them. And the and the negatives are of them. And the and the negatives are of them. And 2008 hit, and we didn't end up getting 2008 hit, and we didn't end up getting 2008 hit, and we didn't end up getting to move forward and actually doing to move forward and actually doing to move forward and actually doing anything with that. But it was a fun anything with that. But it was a fun anything with that. But it was a fun experience all the same for 2 years experience all the same for 2 years experience all the same for 2 years Yeah. getting to learn about the Yeah. getting to learn about the Yeah. getting to learn about the business. And so yeah, I do not consider business. And so yeah, I do not consider business. And so yeah, I do not consider myself an expert, but I have myself an expert, but I have myself an expert, but I have gotten to actually be in these things, gotten to actually be in these things, gotten to actually be in these things, and have gotten to experience planning and have gotten to experience planning and have gotten to experience planning one of them. But actually planning one of them. But actually planning one of them. But actually planning one out, which is Yeah, that's interesting. out, which is Yeah, that's interesting. out, which is Yeah, that's interesting. I wonder how much that's changed since I wonder how much that's changed since I wonder how much that's changed since 2008 even. I'm sure probably a bit, but 2008 even. I'm sure probably a bit, but 2008 even. I'm sure probably a bit, but still fundamen- fundamentally at their still fundamen- fundamentally at their still fundamen- fundamentally at their core, data centers are kind of just core, data centers are kind of just core, data centers are kind of just they're data centers. There's There's they're data centers. There's There's they're data centers. There's There's still servers stored inside of them, still servers stored inside of them, still servers stored inside of them, like how they're cooled, and even the like how they're cooled, and even the like how they're cooled, and even the flooring, they used to be on on raised flooring, they used to be on on raised flooring, they used to be on on raised floors, now they're on concrete because floors, now they're on concrete because floors, now they're on concrete because of the way Things like that logistically of the way Things like that logistically of the way Things like that logistically have changed, but at their core, they're have changed, but at their core, they're have changed, but at their core, they're still data centers are data centers. still data centers are data centers. still data centers are data centers. Yeah. No, that's good. Thanks for that Yeah. No, that's good. Thanks for that Yeah. No, that's good. Thanks for that background. Yeah, yeah, you bet. Uh what background. Yeah, yeah, you bet. Uh what background. Yeah, yeah, you bet. Uh what would you like to talk about in would you like to talk about in would you like to talk about in reference to Do we want to talk about reference to Do we want to talk about reference to Do we want to talk about what people think they do that they what people think they do that they what people think they do that they don't don't don't do we want to talk about economically do we want to talk about economically do we want to talk about economically what they do? I would love to try a what they do? I would love to try a what they do? I would love to try a little thought experiment to start off little thought experiment to start off little thought experiment to start off with here thinking it about this with here thinking it about this with here thinking it about this thinking about in the context of El thinking about in the context of El thinking about in the context of El Dorado and what we have here in El Dorado and what we have here in El Dorado and what we have here in El Dorado cuz it's kind of cool the city of Dorado cuz it's kind of cool the city of Dorado cuz it's kind of cool the city of El Dorado already has some experience in El Dorado already has some experience in El Dorado already has some experience in dealing with a relatively dangerous dealing with a relatively dangerous dealing with a relatively dangerous what would it be called the dangerous what would it be called the dangerous what would it be called the refinery right a an industry you can't refinery right a an industry you can't refinery right a an industry you can't call it a building but obviously there's call it a building but obviously there's call it a building but obviously there's things out there that if they go wrong things out there that if they go wrong things out there that if they go wrong it goes bad real fast. Yeah. it goes bad real fast. Yeah. it goes bad real fast. Yeah. But the refinery growing up here to me But the refinery growing up here to me But the refinery growing up here to me when I was a kid we had two refineries. when I was a kid we had two refineries. when I was a kid we had two refineries. I think we've had three at one point in I think we've had three at one point in I think we've had three at one point in time way back in the past. Um time way back in the past. Um time way back in the past. Um they always kind of smelled but you know they always kind of smelled but you know they always kind of smelled but you know there's never been anything inherently there's never been anything inherently there's never been anything inherently here that I'm like oh we have to get out here that I'm like oh we have to get out here that I'm like oh we have to get out of here real quick otherwise we're going of here real quick otherwise we're going of here real quick otherwise we're going to die because of that refinery right? to die because of that refinery right? to die because of that refinery right? So here's my thought experiment. I I So here's my thought experiment. I I So here's my thought experiment. I I thought the other day I was like what if thought the other day I was like what if thought the other day I was like what if you were living in another town and you were living in another town and you were living in another town and you all of a sudden heard that town was all of a sudden heard that town was all of a sudden heard that town was considering a refinery build in your considering a refinery build in your considering a refinery build in your town and you didn't have the experience town and you didn't have the experience town and you didn't have the experience of a refinery here what would you do of a refinery here what would you do of a refinery here what would you do first? Well you would jump online you first? Well you would jump online you first? Well you would jump online you jump on Google you would jump on Reddit jump on Google you would jump on Reddit jump on Google you would jump on Reddit and start looking up different things and start looking up different things and start looking up different things right? To see what they said. So I did right? To see what they said. So I did right? To see what they said. So I did this today I jumped online to see what this today I jumped online to see what this today I jumped online to see what they said about refineries so here's they said about refineries so here's they said about refineries so here's some of the things I found this is super some of the things I found this is super some of the things I found this is super fascinating. So Google says out of the fascinating. So Google says out of the fascinating. So Google says out of the gate refineries are loud often times gate refineries are loud often times gate refineries are loud often times exceeding 100 decibels you know so what exceeding 100 decibels you know so what exceeding 100 decibels you know so what does that mean is that like right next does that mean is that like right next does that mean is that like right next to it is a long ways away I don't know to it is a long ways away I don't know to it is a long ways away I don't know that's just that kind of sounds like one that's just that kind of sounds like one that's just that kind of sounds like one of those fearful things real up front of those fearful things real up front of those fearful things real up front real quick. It's super loud stay away real quick. It's super loud stay away real quick. It's super loud stay away from it. Noises can cause vibrations and from it. Noises can cause vibrations and from it. Noises can cause vibrations and disturb nearby residents often creating disturb nearby residents often creating disturb nearby residents often creating a nightmare it put it in quotes scenario a nightmare it put it in quotes scenario a nightmare it put it in quotes scenario for sleeping nearby neighborhoods. for sleeping nearby neighborhoods. for sleeping nearby neighborhoods. Burning off excess gas causes Burning off excess gas causes Burning off excess gas causes bright lights low frequency rumbling bright lights low frequency rumbling bright lights low frequency rumbling similar to a jet engine. similar to a jet engine. similar to a jet engine. Residents near refineries report higher Residents near refineries report higher Residents near refineries report higher rates of cancer pre-term births rates of cancer pre-term births rates of cancer pre-term births breathing issues they can contaminate breathing issues they can contaminate breathing issues they can contaminate local air soil water heavy metals local air soil water heavy metals local air soil water heavy metals chemicals toxins often these plants are chemicals toxins often these plants are chemicals toxins often these plants are located near disadvantaged communities located near disadvantaged communities located near disadvantaged communities take that a little personally come on take that a little personally come on take that a little personally come on that bear the brunt right? that bear the brunt right? that bear the brunt right? They bear the brunt of the pollution They bear the brunt of the pollution They bear the brunt of the pollution while seeing limited employment while seeing limited employment while seeing limited employment benefits. benefits. benefits. I would kick back on that one I kick I would kick back on that one I kick I would kick back on that one I kick back on those little bit right? But back on those little bit right? But back on those little bit right? But limited I think our last time I heard it limited I think our last time I heard it limited I think our last time I heard it was like 400 people that are I think was like 400 people that are I think was like 400 people that are I think refinery employees yeah so I don't think refinery employees yeah so I don't think refinery employees yeah so I don't think that's limited I guess it depends on that's limited I guess it depends on that's limited I guess it depends on your context I suppose but so then I your context I suppose but so then I your context I suppose but so then I jumped into Reddit and looked at a jumped into Reddit and looked at a jumped into Reddit and looked at a couple posts in Reddit cuz Reddit's the couple posts in Reddit cuz Reddit's the couple posts in Reddit cuz Reddit's the place where you go to figure out what place where you go to figure out what place where you go to figure out what the world thinks about something and the world thinks about something and the world thinks about something and here's a couple things from Reddit one here's a couple things from Reddit one here's a couple things from Reddit one person says I wake up in the morning person says I wake up in the morning person says I wake up in the morning with smell and a metallic taste in my with smell and a metallic taste in my with smell and a metallic taste in my mouth air quality is absolutely awful. mouth air quality is absolutely awful. mouth air quality is absolutely awful. Living near a refinery is a known cancer Living near a refinery is a known cancer Living near a refinery is a known cancer risk factor risk factor risk factor people living within 10 miles in an people living within 10 miles in an people living within 10 miles in an active 10 miles of an active refinery active 10 miles of an active refinery active 10 miles of an active refinery were more likely to have advanced were more likely to have advanced were more likely to have advanced disease. disease. disease. So there were a lot of these. So there were a lot of these. So there were a lot of these. Um so I thought that was pretty Um so I thought that was pretty Um so I thought that was pretty interesting if you just took it at face interesting if you just took it at face interesting if you just took it at face value off of Google done did some value off of Google done did some value off of Google done did some research looked in Reddit you would be research looked in Reddit you would be research looked in Reddit you would be like refineries yeah I don't want this like refineries yeah I don't want this like refineries yeah I don't want this anywhere in my community which I would anywhere in my community which I would anywhere in my community which I would totally get from reading that stuff and totally get from reading that stuff and totally get from reading that stuff and if I didn't grow up around one that's if I didn't grow up around one that's if I didn't grow up around one that's probably the mindset that I would have probably the mindset that I would have probably the mindset that I would have in the midst of it. But the interesting in the midst of it. But the interesting in the midst of it. But the interesting thing is I think if you went out on the thing is I think if you went out on the thing is I think if you went out on the streets of El Dorado right now and streets of El Dorado right now and streets of El Dorado right now and interviewed people and asked them what interviewed people and asked them what interviewed people and asked them what they thought about the refinery they thought about the refinery they thought about the refinery they would say the same thing they would say would say the same thing they would say would say the same thing they would say it stinks it stinks it stinks » » » » but it gives us some good jobs there's » but it gives us some good jobs there's » but it gives us some good jobs there's some good tax revenue from the thing some good tax revenue from the thing some good tax revenue from the thing community it hasn't blown up the community it hasn't blown up the community it hasn't blown up the community it doesn't leave keep me up at community it doesn't leave keep me up at community it doesn't leave keep me up at night because of the noise it doesn't night because of the noise it doesn't night because of the noise it doesn't you know all these different things a you know all these different things a you know all these different things a lot of these bullet points just aren't lot of these bullet points just aren't lot of these bullet points just aren't true based on what we've experienced. true based on what we've experienced. true based on what we've experienced. Now are there some people that maybe Now are there some people that maybe Now are there some people that maybe have experienced these things with have experienced these things with have experienced these things with refineries? Probably probably because refineries? Probably probably because refineries? Probably probably because the regulations weren't put in place the regulations weren't put in place the regulations weren't put in place there were zoning regulations not in there were zoning regulations not in there were zoning regulations not in place all sorts of things probably that place all sorts of things probably that place all sorts of things probably that would affect that right? And if you read would affect that right? And if you read would affect that right? And if you read in Reddit on some of those harsher in Reddit on some of those harsher in Reddit on some of those harsher comments on there's people farther comments on there's people farther comments on there's people farther down on them going no that's not the down on them going no that's not the down on them going no that's not the case at all I live near one I don't case at all I live near one I don't case at all I live near one I don't experience any of that stuff. experience any of that stuff. experience any of that stuff. So if you flip that on its side and So if you flip that on its side and So if you flip that on its side and think about it from a data center think about it from a data center think about it from a data center perspective I think you can draw some of perspective I think you can draw some of perspective I think you can draw some of the same conclusions and I know that the same conclusions and I know that the same conclusions and I know that might frustrate people and I'll just go might frustrate people and I'll just go might frustrate people and I'll just go ahead and say ahead and say ahead and say if you haven't figured it out I'm okay if you haven't figured it out I'm okay if you haven't figured it out I'm okay with a data center in El Dorado cuz I've with a data center in El Dorado cuz I've with a data center in El Dorado cuz I've gotten to experience them I've gotten to gotten to experience them I've gotten to gotten to experience them I've gotten to plan it. plan it. plan it. I've kind of I don't think a lot of I've kind of I don't think a lot of I've kind of I don't think a lot of these things are the case and I think these things are the case and I think these things are the case and I think it's easy to draw those conclusions it's easy to draw those conclusions it's easy to draw those conclusions because of the hyper sensationalized because of the hyper sensationalized because of the hyper sensationalized headlines that the news just loves headlines that the news just loves headlines that the news just loves to pick up on the poor guy who's having to pick up on the poor guy who's having to pick up on the poor guy who's having a hard time which he is legitimately a hard time which he is legitimately a hard time which he is legitimately having a hard time. having a hard time. having a hard time. Yeah not at all Yeah not at all Yeah not at all yeah and I think it can skew one's yeah and I think it can skew one's yeah and I think it can skew one's thoughts on this stuff thoughts on this stuff thoughts on this stuff pretty severely I think and to touch on pretty severely I think and to touch on pretty severely I think and to touch on that real quick that real quick that real quick I do think that all of these points that I do think that all of these points that I do think that all of these points that people are bringing up about data people are bringing up about data people are bringing up about data centers are valid. I think some people centers are valid. I think some people centers are valid. I think some people are experiencing these issues are experiencing these issues are experiencing these issues legitimately but I would also say I legitimately but I would also say I legitimately but I would also say I think that they're edge cases and not think that they're edge cases and not think that they're edge cases and not the norm. the norm. the norm. Um because again somebody got ahead of Um because again somebody got ahead of Um because again somebody got ahead of themselves and didn't keep these companies in check and didn't keep these companies in check and didn't keep these companies in check when they came in. when they came in. when they came in. Yeah I think that's what the city of El Yeah I think that's what the city of El Yeah I think that's what the city of El Dorado is kind of trying to do right now Dorado is kind of trying to do right now Dorado is kind of trying to do right now is they know these guys are coming and is they know these guys are coming and is they know these guys are coming and so we need to get some things in check so we need to get some things in check so we need to get some things in check so that way if they can't just walk so that way if they can't just walk so that way if they can't just walk through the door and trample all over through the door and trample all over through the door and trample all over us. us. us. I think. Yeah. Wow. Yeah how's that Well that's the end of our episode Tyler Well that's the end of our episode Tyler get off your pulpit. get off your pulpit. get off your pulpit. » » Oh that's good stuff I think a perfect » Oh that's good stuff I think a perfect segue here is to then talk about segue here is to then talk about segue here is to then talk about Virginia and » [clears throat] » [clears throat] » [clears throat] » what was the town? Ashburn. Ashburn » what was the town? Ashburn. Ashburn » what was the town? Ashburn. Ashburn Virginia. Ashburn and like that's a Virginia. Ashburn and like that's a Virginia. Ashburn and like that's a great use case of a town that great use case of a town that great use case of a town that city that's like we are in relative to a city that's like we are in relative to a city that's like we are in relative to a refinery our comfort level to they're refinery our comfort level to they're refinery our comfort level to they're the same way with the same way with the same way with data centers. Yeah. And talk about what data centers. Yeah. And talk about what data centers. Yeah. And talk about what you found I know you've been researching you found I know you've been researching you found I know you've been researching I have been it is but yeah have you seen I have been it is but yeah have you seen I have been it is but yeah have you seen some of the pictures? It's amazing I some of the pictures? It's amazing I some of the pictures? It's amazing I mean it's a data center here and then mean it's a data center here and then mean it's a data center here and then 100 yards away from this person's 100 yards away from this person's 100 yards away from this person's backyard is a housing development. I backyard is a housing development. I backyard is a housing development. I mean it's wild that I would not be mean it's wild that I would not be mean it's wild that I would not be comfortable with that. We're going to do comfortable with that. We're going to do comfortable with that. We're going to do in El Dorado it needs to find its place in El Dorado it needs to find its place in El Dorado it needs to find its place that's not in some poor person's that's not in some poor person's that's not in some poor person's backyard. You know I am 100% on board backyard. You know I am 100% on board backyard. You know I am 100% on board with that let's figure out where it with that let's figure out where it with that let's figure out where it should be. But yeah it's fascinating out should be. But yeah it's fascinating out should be. But yeah it's fascinating out there's they guesstimate around 200 of there's they guesstimate around 200 of there's they guesstimate around 200 of them data centers around Ashburn them data centers around Ashburn them data centers around Ashburn Virginia in that town. Virginia in that town. Virginia in that town. » is Ashburn? That's a good question I » is Ashburn? That's a good question I » is Ashburn? That's a good question I need to go look it up it's a pretty good need to go look it up it's a pretty good need to go look it up it's a pretty good size you can probably size you can probably size you can probably Google it real quick yeah. Um Google it real quick yeah. Um Google it real quick yeah. Um I'm using Google guys not chat GPT I'm using Google guys not chat GPT I'm using Google guys not chat GPT not AI you'll probably take the Google not AI you'll probably take the Google not AI you'll probably take the Google AI results at the top and Jim and I AI results at the top and Jim and I AI results at the top and Jim and I results yeah. results yeah. results yeah. Um no it was interesting though in Um no it was interesting though in Um no it was interesting though in looking at this stuff again I went to looking at this stuff again I went to looking at this stuff again I went to Reddit cuz Reddit's just fascinating Reddit cuz Reddit's just fascinating Reddit cuz Reddit's just fascinating Facebook comments to me are just death I Facebook comments to me are just death I Facebook comments to me are just death I think I don't like Facebook think I don't like Facebook think I don't like Facebook comments but Reddit is pretty comments but Reddit is pretty comments but Reddit is pretty interesting I think you get some raw interesting I think you get some raw interesting I think you get some raw opinions from people on Reddit. Um so I opinions from people on Reddit. Um so I opinions from people on Reddit. Um so I jumped into there looking at people who jumped into there looking at people who jumped into there looking at people who live around some of these things live around some of these things live around some of these things and you saw the same thing a lot of and you saw the same thing a lot of and you saw the same thing a lot of people there were people there were people there were what would the word for it be? Um just what would the word for it be? Um just what would the word for it be? Um just these generalized these generalized these generalized criticisms of them and then you would criticisms of them and then you would criticisms of them and then you would see people jumping and say I live by one see people jumping and say I live by one see people jumping and say I live by one of these it doesn't this doesn't affect of these it doesn't this doesn't affect of these it doesn't this doesn't affect me this doesn't really bother me you me this doesn't really bother me you me this doesn't really bother me you know you would see the back and forth on know you would see the back and forth on know you would see the back and forth on that where the people are actually that where the people are actually that where the people are actually around them and experiencing them don't around them and experiencing them don't around them and experiencing them don't necessarily have those problems. And necessarily have those problems. And necessarily have those problems. And then I found it really interesting then I found it really interesting then I found it really interesting George Mason University did a study in George Mason University did a study in George Mason University did a study in 2025 November I think it was November 2025 November I think it was November 2025 November I think it was November anyway it was 2025 last year anyway it was 2025 last year anyway it was 2025 last year property values out in that area and property values out in that area and property values out in that area and they actually found that property values they actually found that property values they actually found that property values of homes closer to data centers were of homes closer to data centers were of homes closer to data centers were higher than property values for homes higher than property values for homes higher than property values for homes that were farther away from the data that were farther away from the data that were farther away from the data centers out in that area which is centers out in that area which is centers out in that area which is contradictory to even what I would have contradictory to even what I would have contradictory to even what I would have thought I wouldn't have thought that thought I wouldn't have thought that thought I wouldn't have thought that would be the case. that would be the case. that would be the case. Well the fact that they're Well the fact that they're Well the fact that they're housing development they came after the housing development they came after the housing development they came after the data center says a lot. Yeah exactly data center says a lot. Yeah exactly data center says a lot. Yeah exactly that's a lot of those were there before that's a lot of those were there before that's a lot of those were there before the data centers came in also you know the data centers came in also you know the data centers came in also you know to that they're still building and to that they're still building and to that they're still building and they're still value in the property they're still value in the property they're still value in the property values are still staying high despite values are still staying high despite values are still staying high despite the data centers coming into those the data centers coming into those the data centers coming into those literally to those people's backyard literally to those people's backyard literally to those people's backyard it's crazy. it's crazy. it's crazy. And that Ashburn Virginia is actually a And that Ashburn Virginia is actually a And that Ashburn Virginia is actually a pretty desirable place in the United pretty desirable place in the United pretty desirable place in the United States to be and to live I mean there's States to be and to live I mean there's States to be and to live I mean there's proximity to DC and but just the proximity to DC and but just the proximity to DC and but just the technology hub that is there for what it technology hub that is there for what it technology hub that is there for what it is but that it's not a ghost town and is but that it's not a ghost town and is but that it's not a ghost town and there's 200 of them I mean if there is there's 200 of them I mean if there is there's 200 of them I mean if there is There's only 46,000 There's only 46,000 There's only 46,000 people in Ashburn. Fascinating living in people in Ashburn. Fascinating living in people in Ashburn. Fascinating living in Ashburn like in Ashburn there's two Ashburn like in Ashburn there's two Ashburn like in Ashburn there's two yeah and there's two isn't that crazy? yeah and there's two isn't that crazy? yeah and there's two isn't that crazy? » a pretty rural like » a pretty rural like » a pretty rural like » No it's you know it's like suburb of DC » No it's you know it's like suburb of DC » No it's you know it's like suburb of DC area so it's Ashburn Reston Leesburg I area so it's Ashburn Reston Leesburg I area so it's Ashburn Reston Leesburg I mean I think a lot of these are all mean I think a lot of these are all mean I think a lot of these are all around in that same area. around in that same area. around in that same area. But if they really are admitting a low But if they really are admitting a low But if they really are admitting a low hum or Right. hum or Right. hum or Right. » some weird toxic smell from the diesel » some weird toxic smell from the diesel » some weird toxic smell from the diesel jet wouldn't that place be a ghost town or wouldn't that place be a ghost town or wouldn't that place be a ghost town or at least you would see the headlines at least you would see the headlines at least you would see the headlines every other day of people leaving and I would think and again you're going to I would think and again you're going to see some edge cases of that where that's see some edge cases of that where that's see some edge cases of that where that's happening I totally agree with that and happening I totally agree with that and happening I totally agree with that and totally see that but for the most part totally see that but for the most part totally see that but for the most part of it of it of it yeah I don't think you see that. Yeah I yeah I don't think you see that. Yeah I yeah I don't think you see that. Yeah I mean that's where you start considering mean that's where you start considering mean that's where you start considering where El Dorado's at and what I think where El Dorado's at and what I think where El Dorado's at and what I think the state of Kansas is doing a great job the state of Kansas is doing a great job the state of Kansas is doing a great job of is that they're putting in laws and of is that they're putting in laws and of is that they're putting in laws and regulation now to help protect regulation now to help protect regulation now to help protect towns and communities around the towns and communities around the towns and communities around the electrical grid is a big one that's a electrical grid is a big one that's a electrical grid is a big one that's a big generalized statement of utilities big generalized statement of utilities big generalized statement of utilities will go out the roof and some people will go out the roof and some people will go out the roof and some people have experienced that because those have experienced that because those have experienced that because those regulations were not put in place and regulations were not put in place and regulations were not put in place and those power companies weren't kept in those power companies weren't kept in those power companies weren't kept in check. And Paul from the KDOC said like check. And Paul from the KDOC said like check. And Paul from the KDOC said like other states are reaching out wanting other states are reaching out wanting other states are reaching out wanting Kansas's policies. Kansas's policies. Kansas's policies. » Yes exactly cuz Kansas had stated one » Yes exactly cuz Kansas had stated one » Yes exactly cuz Kansas had stated one back in November of 20 that was November back in November of 20 that was November back in November of 20 that was November of 2025 they instated that policy saying of 2025 they instated that policy saying of 2025 they instated that policy saying that what did they call it what did they that what did they call it what did they that what did they call it what did they call it? I've got it in my notes here call it? I've got it in my notes here call it? I've got it in my notes here somewhere. Uh Yeah, I can't remember. somewhere. Uh Yeah, I can't remember. somewhere. Uh Yeah, I can't remember. Yeah, there's a name for cost shif- Yeah, there's a name for cost shif- Yeah, there's a name for cost shif- shifting. Wow, I got cost shif- Be shifting. Wow, I got cost shif- Be shifting. Wow, I got cost shif- Be careful. careful. careful. PG kids. PG kids. PG kids. » » » » Cost shifting. So, taking that » Cost shifting. So, taking that » Cost shifting. So, taking that infrastructure cost and shifting it on infrastructure cost and shifting it on infrastructure cost and shifting it on to the people in that community. That to the people in that community. That to the people in that community. That is what they're protecting. That is what they're protecting. That is what they're protecting. » problem. » problem. » problem. » protection that's been put in place. » protection that's been put in place. » protection that's been put in place. Yes. And so, that happened Yes. And so, that happened Yes. And so, that happened last year in November of 2025. That last year in November of 2025. That last year in November of 2025. That protection is in place. place, yeah. Uh protection is in place. place, yeah. Uh protection is in place. place, yeah. Uh and then talking about setbacks, then at and then talking about setbacks, then at and then talking about setbacks, then at the community level you say if this the community level you say if this the community level you say if this exists, like if I'm if we're going to exists, like if I'm if we're going to exists, like if I'm if we're going to have a hyperscaler, let's say, right? have a hyperscaler, let's say, right? have a hyperscaler, let's say, right? » Um » Um » Um you have setback control, you have you have setback control, you have you have setback control, you have negotiation ability if if the planning negotiation ability if if the planning negotiation ability if if the planning zoning commission cuz it's only there zoning commission cuz it's only there zoning commission cuz it's only there and there isn't anybody coming to town and there isn't anybody coming to town and there isn't anybody coming to town yet. KDOC has a great relationship with yet. KDOC has a great relationship with yet. KDOC has a great relationship with our economic developer Right. our economic developer Right. our economic developer Right. » team at El Dorado Inc. and the city » team at El Dorado Inc. and the city » team at El Dorado Inc. and the city saying like this is we're getting a lot saying like this is we're getting a lot saying like this is we're getting a lot of inquiries, this is coming to Kansas. of inquiries, this is coming to Kansas. of inquiries, this is coming to Kansas. » Yes. Um and so, then they're getting » Yes. Um and so, then they're getting » Yes. Um and so, then they're getting ahead of okay, what's this going to look ahead of okay, what's this going to look ahead of okay, what's this going to look like and like when I say setbacks, how like and like when I say setbacks, how like and like when I say setbacks, how far do you want it from the closest far do you want it from the closest far do you want it from the closest house, right? Do you want How do you house, right? Do you want How do you house, right? Do you want How do you want to stop lead or wow, lead. want to stop lead or wow, lead. want to stop lead or wow, lead. » » » » This is a new one. Tell me about this. » This is a new one. Tell me about this. » This is a new one. Tell me about this. Wow. Wow. Wow. » one. Yep. » one. Yep. » one. Yep. Uh as far as light Uh as far as light Uh as far as light uh shedding. I was thinking light Sure, uh shedding. I was thinking light Sure, uh shedding. I was thinking light Sure, yeah. Yeah. Right? yeah. Yeah. Right? yeah. Yeah. Right? But I mean, that's one of the complaints But I mean, that's one of the complaints But I mean, that's one of the complaints I've seen just like the refinery lights I've seen just like the refinery lights I've seen just like the refinery lights are on all the time and you see it are on all the time and you see it are on all the time and you see it glowing from the El Dorado Dam. You're glowing from the El Dorado Dam. You're glowing from the El Dorado Dam. You're like, what is that? For and that's never like, what is that? For and that's never like, what is that? For and that's never bothered me living on the south side of bothered me living on the south side of bothered me living on the south side of El Dorado or the north side of El El Dorado or the north side of El El Dorado or the north side of El Dorado. Yeah. Never really experienced a Dorado. Yeah. Never really experienced a Dorado. Yeah. Never really experienced a downside from that. But there's ways to downside from that. But there's ways to downside from that. But there's ways to mitigate that. mitigate that. mitigate that. Do we want setbacks? Do we want tree Do we want setbacks? Do we want tree Do we want setbacks? Do we want tree barriers? Do we want noise barriers? barriers? Do we want noise barriers? barriers? Do we want noise barriers? Different berms or different Different berms or different Different berms or different » Yeah, berms like decor that could and » Yeah, berms like decor that could and » Yeah, berms like decor that could and one video I saw of a family is they had one video I saw of a family is they had one video I saw of a family is they had a field and then they threw up this a field and then they threw up this a field and then they threw up this pretty much a hyperscaler Wow, yeah. pretty much a hyperscaler Wow, yeah. pretty much a hyperscaler Wow, yeah. » across this field and the lights facing » across this field and the lights facing » across this field and the lights facing their front door, right? Like and it was their front door, right? Like and it was their front door, right? Like and it was it was just a walk to get to that fence it was just a walk to get to that fence it was just a walk to get to that fence line and it was but there's a tree line and it was but there's a tree line and it was but there's a tree line on each side, you know, so like I would on each side, you know, so like I would on each side, you know, so like I would have mandated if that was a have mandated if that was a have mandated if that was a forward-thinking community, you would forward-thinking community, you would forward-thinking community, you would have said you can go here, but you have said you can go here, but you have said you can go here, but you have to put something here to put something here to put something here » My goodness. uh because this neighbor, » My goodness. uh because this neighbor, » My goodness. uh because this neighbor, if you want to be a good community if you want to be a good community if you want to be a good community partner and so, that's that's the stages partner and so, that's that's the stages partner and so, that's that's the stages we're at and so, um special use permit we're at and so, um special use permit we're at and so, um special use permit Yes. Yes. Yes. » Right is most likely where I think it's » Right is most likely where I think it's » Right is most likely where I think it's going to go if it goes through. Planning going to go if it goes through. Planning going to go if it goes through. Planning commission takes that to the city. commission takes that to the city. commission takes that to the city. There'll be a special use permit where There'll be a special use permit where There'll be a special use permit where they have to go Yeah, it's required. they have to go Yeah, it's required. they have to go Yeah, it's required. » commission, right? » commission, right? » commission, right? » that is You can't just come in after » that is You can't just come in after » that is You can't just come in after they pass this stuff in a month or two. they pass this stuff in a month or two. they pass this stuff in a month or two. » And that's what a lot of people I think » And that's what a lot of people I think » And that's what a lot of people I think are thinking. are thinking. are thinking. Um and just because we're planning out Um and just because we're planning out Um and just because we're planning out how we're going to handle it as a city, how we're going to handle it as a city, how we're going to handle it as a city, I say we, the city Right. I say we, the city Right. I say we, the city Right. » uh and the planning commission, that's » uh and the planning commission, that's » uh and the planning commission, that's that's foresight and that's That's that's foresight and that's That's that's foresight and that's That's absolutely » the biggest value add we can tell » the biggest value add we can tell » the biggest value add we can tell anybody around the country listening to anybody around the country listening to anybody around the country listening to this if this is infecting your this if this is infecting your this if this is infecting your community. Yes. Be a frontrunner and get community. Yes. Be a frontrunner and get community. Yes. Be a frontrunner and get ahead of it and go to your planning ahead of it and go to your planning ahead of it and go to your planning commission, ask if you have regulation commission, ask if you have regulation commission, ask if you have regulation around um around um around um our is it not our uh our is it not our uh our is it not our uh not our one Oh. not our one Oh. not our one Oh. » uh but what » uh but what » uh but what Yeah, the industrial I1, thank you. Yeah, the industrial I1, thank you. Yeah, the industrial I1, thank you. » different zones. » different zones. » different zones. » Yeah, the different zones, but like if » Yeah, the different zones, but like if » Yeah, the different zones, but like if you don't have a policy in place in your you don't have a policy in place in your you don't have a policy in place in your I1 zoning, your industrial zoning around I1 zoning, your industrial zoning around I1 zoning, your industrial zoning around data centers uh nuclear power plants data centers uh nuclear power plants data centers uh nuclear power plants like » Yeah, any of those things like » Yeah, any of those things like » Yeah, any of those things like » like you should have something in place » like you should have something in place » like you should have something in place and that's what's happening here and that's what's happening here and that's what's happening here and we're still seeing we're still seeing we're still seeing a lot of concern. a lot of concern. a lot of concern. » We are. Um » We are. Um » We are. Um » Yeah. which is interesting and I and I » Yeah. which is interesting and I and I » Yeah. which is interesting and I and I get it. I totally relate to Yep. um get it. I totally relate to Yep. um get it. I totally relate to Yep. um there's so much misinformation. You can there's so much misinformation. You can there's so much misinformation. You can really read and find whatever you want, really read and find whatever you want, really read and find whatever you want, right? right? right? » Yeah, that's why you just kind of have » Yeah, that's why you just kind of have » Yeah, that's why you just kind of have to experience it, I think and talk to to experience it, I think and talk to to experience it, I think and talk to people who are living close to them. people who are living close to them. people who are living close to them. » And and not just education, but look at » And and not just education, but look at » And and not just education, but look at the larger Okay, there's this many the larger Okay, there's this many the larger Okay, there's this many everywhere. Yes. everywhere. Yes. everywhere. Yes. » There's there's a power demand and then » There's there's a power demand and then » There's there's a power demand and then let's talk about that on the power let's talk about that on the power let's talk about that on the power infrastructure. I think that's really infrastructure. I think that's really infrastructure. I think that's really important. important. important. » Yeah. Why will our power rate not go up » Yeah. Why will our power rate not go up » Yeah. Why will our power rate not go up in our situation in El Dorado if a in our situation in El Dorado if a in our situation in El Dorado if a hyperscaler comes to town? hyperscaler comes to town? hyperscaler comes to town? » Right, yeah. » Right, yeah. » Right, yeah. » Like why won't it go up? » Like why won't it go up? » Like why won't it go up? » Yeah, one because of that protection put » Yeah, one because of that protection put » Yeah, one because of that protection put in place. in place. in place. But at the end of the day But at the end of the day But at the end of the day the power company's going to do what the power company's going to do what the power company's going to do what they want to do ultimately. So, I of all they want to do ultimately. So, I of all they want to do ultimately. So, I of all of the concerns, that's the one that of the concerns, that's the one that of the concerns, that's the one that resonates most and I can say yeah, I resonates most and I can say yeah, I resonates most and I can say yeah, I totally get that concern. totally get that concern. totally get that concern. » And that's something you have to watch » And that's something you have to watch » And that's something you have to watch out for. And the line I saw at the state out for. And the line I saw at the state out for. And the line I saw at the state level is they have to be at a certain level is they have to be at a certain level is they have to be at a certain uh demand. They have to be past uh demand. They have to be past uh demand. They have to be past » 75 megawatts, I think. Past 75 » 75 megawatts, I think. Past 75 » 75 megawatts, I think. Past 75 megawatts, they have to pay like 20% megawatts, they have to pay like 20% megawatts, they have to pay like 20% over the going rate or something like over the going rate or something like over the going rate or something like that. So, there's a surplus that goes that. So, there's a surplus that goes that. So, there's a surplus that goes back into back into back into » Yes, yeah. » Yes, yeah. » Yes, yeah. » that could end up lowering rates. Now, » that could end up lowering rates. Now, » that could end up lowering rates. Now, the concern is if it's 75 or under the concern is if it's 75 or under the concern is if it's 75 or under Right. or under 75, Right. or under 75, Right. or under 75, then It's not applicable. Yeah, yeah, it then It's not applicable. Yeah, yeah, it then It's not applicable. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't apply actually. Oh, yeah, that's doesn't apply actually. Oh, yeah, that's doesn't apply actually. Oh, yeah, that's true. Yes, that is true. Yes, exactly. true. Yes, that is true. Yes, exactly. true. Yes, that is true. Yes, exactly. » there. Yeah, now it's debatable on how » there. Yeah, now it's debatable on how » there. Yeah, now it's debatable on how many will actually come to our front many will actually come to our front many will actually come to our front door that are under 75 these days. It's door that are under 75 these days. It's door that are under 75 these days. It's just these larger ones that are looking just these larger ones that are looking just these larger ones that are looking for a place to land mostly. But yeah, for a place to land mostly. But yeah, for a place to land mostly. But yeah, and again to your point having the and again to your point having the and again to your point having the special use permit required means that special use permit required means that special use permit required means that we get to review every one of these that we get to review every one of these that we get to review every one of these that comes through the door. It's not comes through the door. It's not comes through the door. It's nothing, it's just an automatic thing. nothing, it's just an automatic thing. nothing, it's just an automatic thing. Um Um Um But the cool thing about on the power But the cool thing about on the power But the cool thing about on the power side of it is on the flip side though is side of it is on the flip side though is side of it is on the flip side though is the franchise fees, right? The city of the franchise fees, right? The city of the franchise fees, right? The city of El Dorado I just learned about this. I El Dorado I just learned about this. I El Dorado I just learned about this. I had I know, me, too. Yeah, I had no idea had I know, me, too. Yeah, I had no idea had I know, me, too. Yeah, I had no idea this was a thing. this was a thing. this was a thing. » uh Dilner on the podcast. » uh Dilner on the podcast. » uh Dilner on the podcast. » Yeah, that's right. Yeah. » Yeah, that's right. Yeah. » Yeah, that's right. Yeah. » manager on the podcast a couple months » manager on the podcast a couple months » manager on the podcast a couple months ago and that's And he told us about ago and that's And he told us about ago and that's And he told us about this. Yeah, that you know, the city of this. Yeah, that you know, the city of this. Yeah, that you know, the city of El Dorado gets around a million dollars El Dorado gets around a million dollars El Dorado gets around a million dollars from Evergy for franchise fees right from Evergy for franchise fees right from Evergy for franchise fees right now. now. now. » And and what that means is the » And and what that means is the » And and what that means is the essentially the city taxes the or essentially the city taxes the or essentially the city taxes the or there's a built-in fee within our power there's a built-in fee within our power there's a built-in fee within our power bill with Evergy for them to have access bill with Evergy for them to have access bill with Evergy for them to have access to our infrastructure, right? Cuz we're to our infrastructure, right? Cuz we're to our infrastructure, right? Cuz we're running power lines and poles through running power lines and poles through running power lines and poles through our town and that uh affects our town and that uh affects our town and that uh affects our infrastructure, depreciates our infrastructure, depreciates our infrastructure, depreciates our infrastructure potentially. infrastructure potentially. infrastructure potentially. » Yeah. Like a right-of-way. I don't know » Yeah. Like a right-of-way. I don't know » Yeah. Like a right-of-way. I don't know if it's a easement if it's a easement if it's a easement » to remember all the reasons why they I » to remember all the reasons why they I » to remember all the reasons why they I just know they get the money. Yeah, they just know they get the money. Yeah, they just know they get the money. Yeah, they get around a million bucks, but if a get around a million bucks, but if a get around a million bucks, but if a data center comes in that's a 100 data center comes in that's a 100 data center comes in that's a 100 megawatt customer for Evergy, the city megawatt customer for Evergy, the city megawatt customer for Evergy, the city would get off of that 2.5 million would get off of that 2.5 million would get off of that 2.5 million dollars off of that one customer in dollars off of that one customer in dollars off of that one customer in franchise fees. So, it move from 1 franchise fees. So, it move from 1 franchise fees. So, it move from 1 million a year to 3 and 1/2 million a year to 3 and 1/2 million a year to 3 and 1/2 million dollars a year just in franchise fees dollars a year just in franchise fees dollars a year just in franchise fees and so, that's that's got to move the and so, that's that's got to move the and so, that's that's got to move the needle on something. needle on something. needle on something. » Yeah. I would think at the end of the » Yeah. I would think at the end of the » Yeah. I would think at the end of the day. That's a big change and that's only day. That's a big change and that's only day. That's a big change and that's only a 100 megawatt facility now these days. a 100 megawatt facility now these days. a 100 megawatt facility now these days. I mean, they're starting to plan I mean, they're starting to plan I mean, they're starting to plan gigawatt facilities, 1,000 megawatts. Is gigawatt facilities, 1,000 megawatts. Is gigawatt facilities, 1,000 megawatts. Is it someone build- building a gigawatt it someone build- building a gigawatt it someone build- building a gigawatt facility? facility? facility? » Meta is doing Yeah. » Meta is doing Yeah. » Meta is doing Yeah. Yeah, which would be a 100 x that. That Yeah, which would be a 100 x that. That Yeah, which would be a 100 x that. That would be would be would be uh sorry, 10 x that. uh sorry, 10 x that. uh sorry, 10 x that. Really good at math. Really good at math. Really good at math. Yeah. Going to Google what does Google Yeah. Going to Google what does Google Yeah. Going to Google what does Google what is 100 Yeah. Yeah. Uh so, yeah, at what is 100 Yeah. Yeah. Uh so, yeah, at what is 100 Yeah. Yeah. Uh so, yeah, at that point you're talking 20 million to that point you're talking 20 million to that point you're talking 20 million to town of town of town of 12,000 people. Yeah. 12,000 people. Yeah. 12,000 people. Yeah. » that's got to be more than the city's » that's got to be more than the city's » that's got to be more than the city's entire budget. Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah. entire budget. Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah. entire budget. Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah. And then that's not even any of the And then that's not even any of the And then that's not even any of the property tax revenue that comes off of property tax revenue that comes off of property tax revenue that comes off of it abated or not for a while, you know. it abated or not for a while, you know. it abated or not for a while, you know. water billing utilities water billing utilities water billing utilities » yeah, my goodness, it's crazy. Yeah. And » yeah, my goodness, it's crazy. Yeah. And » yeah, my goodness, it's crazy. Yeah. And whatever I don't even want to get into whatever I don't even want to get into whatever I don't even want to get into this cuz I don't understand property tax this cuz I don't understand property tax this cuz I don't understand property tax most of the time and how it's figured. most of the time and how it's figured. most of the time and how it's figured. » super fascinating. » super fascinating. » super fascinating. » the appraised value of a building like » the appraised value of a building like » the appraised value of a building like this, but it would be substantial. It this, but it would be substantial. It this, but it would be substantial. It is. Yeah, and I mean, that's what I is. Yeah, and I mean, that's what I is. Yeah, and I mean, that's what I worked with. I was working with Sarah worked with. I was working with Sarah worked with. I was working with Sarah from El Dorado Inc. yesterday trying to from El Dorado Inc. yesterday trying to from El Dorado Inc. yesterday trying to understand the numbers of what that understand the numbers of what that understand the numbers of what that stuff means and yeah, I've got it stuff means and yeah, I've got it stuff means and yeah, I've got it somewhere in here. somewhere in here. somewhere in here. Um Um Um for what it could be. Yeah, if it was for what it could be. Yeah, if it was for what it could be. Yeah, if it was appraised at Yeah. I think like this a appraised at Yeah. I think like this a appraised at Yeah. I think like this a 50 million dollar assessed building 50 million dollar assessed building 50 million dollar assessed building value at the end of the day was the value at the end of the day was the value at the end of the day was the example that she was running. example that she was running. example that she was running. Um and she was saying that the Um and she was saying that the Um and she was saying that the Let's see, the total revenue Let's see, the total revenue Let's see, the total revenue from that from that from that not with an abatement, but no abatement not with an abatement, but no abatement not with an abatement, but no abatement would be 8.2 million dollars a year. would be 8.2 million dollars a year. would be 8.2 million dollars a year. And I think that's actually our entire And I think that's actually our entire And I think that's actually our entire That's what the city gets on That's what the city gets on That's what the city gets on I I don't fact-check me, everyone, but I I I don't fact-check me, everyone, but I I I don't fact-check me, everyone, but I I think that's where we're in the I think that's where we're in the I think that's where we're in the ballpark. We're in the ballpark of 8 ballpark. We're in the ballpark of 8 ballpark. We're in the ballpark of 8 million a year, I think, in property tax million a year, I think, in property tax million a year, I think, in property tax revenue to the city. revenue to the city. revenue to the city. So, that would be equivalent to our So, that would be equivalent to our So, that would be equivalent to our entire Let me go back and look. Yeah, entire Let me go back and look. Yeah, entire Let me go back and look. Yeah, yeah, go check that. yeah, go check that. yeah, go check that. » Cuz that's you're exactly right. That's » Cuz that's you're exactly right. That's » Cuz that's you're exactly right. That's the part. The other thing I find the part. The other thing I find the part. The other thing I find interesting is the water usage. interesting is the water usage. interesting is the water usage. Oh. Yeah, since we're talking about like Oh. Yeah, since we're talking about like Oh. Yeah, since we're talking about like what it uses and billing what it uses and billing what it uses and billing um um um for like opportunity, they would use for like opportunity, they would use for like opportunity, they would use treated water. So, that's a revenue treated water. So, that's a revenue treated water. So, that's a revenue source. source. source. And correct me if I'm wrong, city of El And correct me if I'm wrong, city of El And correct me if I'm wrong, city of El Dorado, our lake has a surplus of 50 Dorado, our lake has a surplus of 50 Dorado, our lake has a surplus of 50 million gallons. gallons. gallons. » know what it is. I know it's 10 million » know what it is. I know it's 10 million » know what it is. I know it's 10 million gallons a day that it can serve for gallons a day that it can serve for gallons a day that it can serve for industrial use. industrial use. industrial use. Maybe a week or something. So, 10 Maybe a week or something. So, 10 Maybe a week or something. So, 10 million per day they can dedicate to industrial per day they can dedicate to industrial per day they can dedicate to industrial use. Yeah. Let me pause real quick cuz use. Yeah. Let me pause real quick cuz use. Yeah. Let me pause real quick cuz Sarah's going to kill me cuz I butchered Sarah's going to kill me cuz I butchered Sarah's going to kill me cuz I butchered that terribly and I'm so that terribly and I'm so that terribly and I'm so sorry. You were right, we shouldn't have sorry. You were right, we shouldn't have sorry. You were right, we shouldn't have touched on this cuz it's still super touched on this cuz it's still super touched on this cuz it's still super confusing to me. But yeah, you're right. confusing to me. But yeah, you're right. confusing to me. But yeah, you're right. She said the city of El Dorado currently She said the city of El Dorado currently She said the city of El Dorado currently generates approximately 7 million per generates approximately 7 million per generates approximately 7 million per year in total property tax revenue. So, year in total property tax revenue. So, year in total property tax revenue. So, that a that 50 million dollar assessed that a that 50 million dollar assessed that a that 50 million dollar assessed building value building value building value um um um would add around 2.8 million dollars would add around 2.8 million dollars would add around 2.8 million dollars annually. So, bringing it to around 10 annually. So, bringing it to around 10 annually. So, bringing it to around 10 million a year. million a year. million a year. » Wow. Yeah, yeah. And what we would get. » Wow. Yeah, yeah. And what we would get. » Wow. Yeah, yeah. And what we would get. Now, depending on where that abatement Now, depending on where that abatement Now, depending on where that abatement falls and what you know, the city can do falls and what you know, the city can do falls and what you know, the city can do up to 10 years of an abatement, but like up to 10 years of an abatement, but like up to 10 years of an abatement, but like Paul had said at that meeting, he was Paul had said at that meeting, he was Paul had said at that meeting, he was like, don't offer that. Don't don't go like, don't offer that. Don't don't go like, don't offer that. Don't don't go out of the gate offering a crazy out of the gate offering a crazy out of the gate offering a crazy abatement. Go in with some pretty good abatement. Go in with some pretty good abatement. Go in with some pretty good terms. Kansas Department of Commerce, by terms. Kansas Department of Commerce, by terms. Kansas Department of Commerce, by the way, is when I say KDOC, Kansas the way, is when I say KDOC, Kansas the way, is when I say KDOC, Kansas Department of Commerce. Department of Commerce. Department of Commerce. » Yes. Yeah, at that work session » Yes. Yeah, at that work session » Yes. Yeah, at that work session that Yeah, last week, yep, that he spoke that Yeah, last week, yep, that he spoke that Yeah, last week, yep, that he spoke at. So, anyway, yeah, under the 85% at. So, anyway, yeah, under the 85% at. So, anyway, yeah, under the 85% Yeah, it's still Yeah, you're still Yeah, it's still Yeah, you're still Yeah, it's still Yeah, you're still getting it during the abatement getting it during the abatement getting it during the abatement it's still 1.23 million total is what it's still 1.23 million total is what it's still 1.23 million total is what comes » that out. You add say that's what shows » that out. You add say that's what shows » that out. You add say that's what shows up. You do a up. You do a up. You do a Let's just say they end up doing a Let's just say they end up doing a Let's just say they end up doing a 5-year abatement or something or um 5-year abatement or something or um 5-year abatement or something or um discount on the property taxes, right? discount on the property taxes, right? discount on the property taxes, right? Cuz that's what that means essentially. Cuz that's what that means essentially. Cuz that's what that means essentially. They wouldn't pay They don't pay their They wouldn't pay They don't pay their They wouldn't pay They don't pay their full share. full share. full share. Common numbers like 10 years. Yeah, I Common numbers like 10 years. Yeah, I Common numbers like 10 years. Yeah, I think they can go up to 10 years. think they can go up to 10 years. think they can go up to 10 years. with BPG Okay. in town. I think they got with BPG Okay. in town. I think they got with BPG Okay. in town. I think they got a 10-year Was it a 10-year? Yeah. We're a 10-year Was it a 10-year? Yeah. We're a 10-year Was it a 10-year? Yeah. We're getting recommendations according to getting recommendations according to getting recommendations according to what Paul said at that meeting. The what Paul said at that meeting. The what Paul said at that meeting. The state's recommending don't give away the state's recommending don't give away the state's recommending don't give away the farm. No. They're saying if they if they farm. No. They're saying if they if they farm. No. They're saying if they if they find your site worthy of this Yeah. uh find your site worthy of this Yeah. uh find your site worthy of this Yeah. uh ask for a lot ask for a lot ask for a lot » Yeah. and don't give them much. » Yeah. and don't give them much. » Yeah. and don't give them much. » Yeah, exactly. » Yeah, exactly. » Yeah, exactly. » that's really good advice cuz if they » that's really good advice cuz if they » that's really good advice cuz if they come here just for that's just come here just for that's just come here just for that's just nothing to them. That's a drop in the nothing to them. That's a drop in the nothing to them. That's a drop in the bucket. multi-billion dollar investments bucket. multi-billion dollar investments bucket. multi-billion dollar investments they're making in these facilities. they're making in these facilities. they're making in these facilities. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. » is nothing. So I do hope I do hope the » is nothing. So I do hope I do hope the » is nothing. So I do hope I do hope the city will push on that hard to see city will push on that hard to see city will push on that hard to see realized income. Yes. realized income. Yes. realized income. Yes. If this were to happen, but think about If this were to happen, but think about If this were to happen, but think about even at that level 2.5 million there and even at that level 2.5 million there and even at that level 2.5 million there and then say it's a lower you know, lower then say it's a lower you know, lower then say it's a lower you know, lower usage on the utility fee franchise fee. usage on the utility fee franchise fee. usage on the utility fee franchise fee. Yeah. Say there's another 2.5 million Yeah. Say there's another 2.5 million Yeah. Say there's another 2.5 million five or five or five or throw five million at it. Just say throw five million at it. Just say throw five million at it. Just say there's five million a year coming there's five million a year coming there's five million a year coming the city. Sure. Sure. Yeah. And property city. Sure. Sure. Yeah. And property city. Sure. Sure. Yeah. And property taxes are like eight million. Yeah. What taxes are like eight million. Yeah. What taxes are like eight million. Yeah. What do you think that would do essentially? do you think that would do essentially? do you think that would do essentially? And that takes some trust and I think And that takes some trust and I think And that takes some trust and I think this is the Yeah. this is the Yeah. this is the Yeah. » big problem. » big problem. » big problem. » Yes. It's not that the city or our city » Yes. It's not that the city or our city » Yes. It's not that the city or our city would receive five million. It's does would receive five million. It's does would receive five million. It's does our community trust who they voted for our community trust who they voted for our community trust who they voted for who's hired as the city manager and the who's hired as the city manager and the who's hired as the city manager and the city engineer city engineer city engineer » Yeah. to distribute those funds in the » Yeah. to distribute those funds in the » Yeah. to distribute those funds in the proper way, right? I think everybody proper way, right? I think everybody proper way, right? I think everybody would just want it in their pockets. would just want it in their pockets. would just want it in their pockets. » Right. Yes. » Right. Yes. » Right. Yes. » That's not how it works, but there's » That's not how it works, but there's » That's not how it works, but there's ways that you can realize that all the ways that you can realize that all the ways that you can realize that all the way down to every person that owns way down to every person that owns way down to every person that owns property in town. property in town. property in town. » Yes. Yeah. » Yes. Yeah. » Yes. Yeah. But I think it's a try I don't know what But I think it's a try I don't know what But I think it's a try I don't know what you think about that. I think it's no you think about that. I think it's no you think about that. I think it's no matter what number you say matter what number you say matter what number you say » Yes. I think there's more distrust in » Yes. I think there's more distrust in » Yes. I think there's more distrust in the government than there's ever been. the government than there's ever been. the government than there's ever been. Not just in El Dorado. Not just in El Dorado. Not just in El Dorado. » No. » No. » No. » Everywhere. I'm okay with El Dorado, but » Everywhere. I'm okay with El Dorado, but » Everywhere. I'm okay with El Dorado, but on a larger scale yeah, I've got a lot on a larger scale yeah, I've got a lot on a larger scale yeah, I've got a lot of distrust in the government right now. of distrust in the government right now. of distrust in the government right now. It's kind of a disaster. Yeah. Yeah, on It's kind of a disaster. Yeah. Yeah, on It's kind of a disaster. Yeah. Yeah, on a national scale. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. a national scale. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. a national scale. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And that's where I think you said that And that's where I think you said that And that's where I think you said that line when we were talking the other day. line when we were talking the other day. line when we were talking the other day. That's where the fight should really be That's where the fight should really be That's where the fight should really be coming from. Is if one of these does coming from. Is if one of these does coming from. Is if one of these does come in and the revenue is going to come in and the revenue is going to come in and the revenue is going to come through the door, then that's where the through the door, then that's where the through the door, then that's where the fight should be is where that revenue fight should be is where that revenue fight should be is where that revenue goes. goes. goes. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. » Everybody is talking about should » Everybody is talking about should » Everybody is talking about should influence who you vote for. That should influence who you vote for. That should influence who you vote for. That should Cuz ultimately that's you know, the city Cuz ultimately that's you know, the city Cuz ultimately that's you know, the city manager is going to do that under uh manager is going to do that under uh manager is going to do that under uh council from the city commission. Right. council from the city commission. Right. council from the city commission. Right. Yes. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. present things especially that present things especially that present things especially that substantial like that amount of money. substantial like that amount of money. substantial like that amount of money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. » going to be a big conversation a lot of » going to be a big conversation a lot of » going to be a big conversation a lot of planning Oh, yeah. Like that's when planning Oh, yeah. Like that's when planning Oh, yeah. Like that's when voting really matters. voting really matters. voting really matters. » does. » does. » does. And voting the right people in that can And voting the right people in that can And voting the right people in that can do that. The city I mean the citizens do that. The city I mean the citizens do that. The city I mean the citizens unless it's sales tax we don't get a unless it's sales tax we don't get a unless it's sales tax we don't get a vote Right. We can voice our opinion and vote Right. We can voice our opinion and vote Right. We can voice our opinion and I think that scares people too. Yeah, I I think that scares people too. Yeah, I I think that scares people too. Yeah, I get it. You just you don't have a say. get it. You just you don't have a say. get it. You just you don't have a say. No. You did have a say. No. You did have a say. No. You did have a say. » Right. And you got to hope you elected » Right. And you got to hope you elected » Right. And you got to hope you elected the right people. Right. When you have a the right people. Right. When you have a the right people. Right. When you have a small town of 12,000 people and you have small town of 12,000 people and you have small town of 12,000 people and you have people running unopposed people running unopposed people running unopposed » Yes. for seat. Yes. I wonder and hope » Yes. for seat. Yes. I wonder and hope » Yes. for seat. Yes. I wonder and hope now we're getting really local now we're getting really local now we're getting really local » Yeah, we are man. Yeah. » Yeah, we are man. Yeah. » Yeah, we are man. Yeah. I I I I I I I've never seen this much energy and I've never seen this much energy and I've never seen this much energy and this much communication around local this much communication around local this much communication around local politics in in El Dorado specifically in politics in in El Dorado specifically in politics in in El Dorado specifically in my lifetime since this topic of data my lifetime since this topic of data my lifetime since this topic of data centers which I think is awesome. centers which I think is awesome. centers which I think is awesome. » Oh, yeah. It's great to see people » Oh, yeah. It's great to see people » Oh, yeah. It's great to see people engaged. engaged. engaged. » I wonder if the voter turnout will » I wonder if the voter turnout will » I wonder if the voter turnout will increase, right? increase, right? increase, right? Yeah. get more activity more people Yeah. get more activity more people Yeah. get more activity more people engaged with commission meetings. That engaged with commission meetings. That engaged with commission meetings. That would be great. would be great. would be great. could result in a great outcome could result in a great outcome could result in a great outcome regardless of if we get one or not. regardless of if we get one or not. regardless of if we get one or not. » Yes. Yeah. Hopefully it gets people more » Yes. Yeah. Hopefully it gets people more » Yes. Yeah. Hopefully it gets people more involved because that's what we need ultimately. because that's what we need ultimately. because that's what we need ultimately. Commissioners are flying blind if they Commissioners are flying blind if they Commissioners are flying blind if they don't have input from the community. don't have input from the community. don't have input from the community. » Yeah. City managers are flying blind if » Yeah. City managers are flying blind if » Yeah. City managers are flying blind if they don't have input they don't have input they don't have input » Yeah, that's a great point. » Yeah, that's a great point. » Yeah, that's a great point. commissioners that are out in the commissioners that are out in the commissioners that are out in the community, community, community, » That's a great point. Yeah. Regardless » That's a great point. Yeah. Regardless » That's a great point. Yeah. Regardless that's I'm I'm just hoping that's a big that's I'm I'm just hoping that's a big that's I'm I'm just hoping that's a big Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the outcome I'm Yes. excited for That's the outcome I'm Yes. excited for That's the outcome I'm Yes. excited for and those opposed I respect the and those opposed I respect the and those opposed I respect the energy and thankful for Oh, yeah. energy and thankful for Oh, yeah. energy and thankful for Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And again, [clears throat] I Absolutely. And again, [clears throat] I Absolutely. And again, [clears throat] I understand where it's coming from. I understand where it's coming from. I understand where it's coming from. I totally get it. Yeah. totally get it. Yeah. totally get it. Yeah. So water usage show the fear tactic. So water usage show the fear tactic. So water usage show the fear tactic. Let's talk about fear for a bit. Fear's Let's talk about fear for a bit. Fear's Let's talk about fear for a bit. Fear's utilities. We covered some parameters utilities. We covered some parameters utilities. We covered some parameters protections for that. Water usage and protections for that. Water usage and protections for that. Water usage and we're talking about the gallons per day. we're talking about the gallons per day. we're talking about the gallons per day. Right. back to that. Right. back to that. Right. back to that. 10 million gallons available for 10 million gallons available for 10 million gallons available for industrial use per day like available industrial use per day like available industrial use per day like available that is clear of the drought line, right? Or is clear of the drought line, right? Or is clear of the drought line, right? Or the drought line they're factoring in the drought line they're factoring in the drought line they're factoring in the worst case scenario 100-year Yeah, the worst case scenario 100-year Yeah, the worst case scenario 100-year Yeah, the 100-year drought is essentially so the 100-year drought is essentially so the 100-year drought is essentially so what could happen over the course of what could happen over the course of what could happen over the course of Yeah, it's not like we don't have water Yeah, it's not like we don't have water Yeah, it's not like we don't have water for 100 years. Right. Yeah, yeah. It for 100 years. Right. Yeah, yeah. It for 100 years. Right. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't matter for 100 years. We're doesn't matter for 100 years. We're doesn't matter for 100 years. We're okay. okay. okay. » » » » Probably and now David Dillner's going » Probably and now David Dillner's going » Probably and now David Dillner's going to kill us. to kill us. to kill us. And Scott Rickard. Sorry guys. We are And Scott Rickard. Sorry guys. We are And Scott Rickard. Sorry guys. We are not the most informed. We're just not the most informed. We're just not the most informed. We're just curious. curious. curious. » » » » That should be the tagline for the » That should be the tagline for the » That should be the tagline for the podcast. Yeah. Curious about that stuff podcast. Yeah. Curious about that stuff podcast. Yeah. Curious about that stuff that are so weird. Yeah, we're learning. that are so weird. Yeah, we're learning. that are so weird. Yeah, we're learning. And how government works. And how government works. And how government works. » But no, like the worst I think, right? » But no, like the worst I think, right? » But no, like the worst I think, right? Over 100 years like what is the worst Over 100 years like what is the worst Over 100 years like what is the worst drought that could happen over the drought that could happen over the drought that could happen over the course of 100 years and they're planning course of 100 years and they're planning course of 100 years and they're planning for that. We're still with that 10 for that. We're still with that 10 for that. We're still with that 10 million gallons per day. So we got a ton million gallons per day. So we got a ton million gallons per day. So we got a ton of it. of it. of it. And the systems we're seeing they're And the systems we're seeing they're And the systems we're seeing they're talking about talking about talking about Right. These closed loop systems do not Right. These closed loop systems do not Right. These closed loop systems do not use a ton of water at the end of the use a ton of water at the end of the use a ton of water at the end of the day. Yeah, they work 15,000 gallons a day. Yeah, they work 15,000 gallons a day. Yeah, they work 15,000 gallons a day was the worst case scenario. That's day was the worst case scenario. That's day was the worst case scenario. That's what he said which was wild which even I what he said which was wild which even I what he said which was wild which even I was trying to find statistics on that was trying to find statistics on that was trying to find statistics on that online and I was reading just the AI online and I was reading just the AI online and I was reading just the AI generated Gemini stuff on Google was generated Gemini stuff on Google was generated Gemini stuff on Google was telling me much higher numbers than that telling me much higher numbers than that telling me much higher numbers than that cuz it's hard to find really dialed in cuz it's hard to find really dialed in cuz it's hard to find really dialed in numbers on that it seems like online. So numbers on that it seems like online. So numbers on that it seems like online. So yeah, I was shocked to hear that they yeah, I was shocked to hear that they yeah, I was shocked to hear that they said in the territory of like what's the said in the territory of like what's the said in the territory of like what's the worst you've seen on a actual closed worst you've seen on a actual closed worst you've seen on a actual closed system. Oh, I see. system. Oh, I see. system. Oh, I see. » what the state was talking about Paul » what the state was talking about Paul » what the state was talking about Paul that you should say you only are that you should say you only are that you should say you only are allowing this much water usage and allowing this much water usage and allowing this much water usage and actually by law the state has a policy actually by law the state has a policy actually by law the state has a policy in place to say Yeah. you have to bring in place to say Yeah. you have to bring in place to say Yeah. you have to bring in the most efficient system. Yeah. in the most efficient system. Yeah. in the most efficient system. Yeah. They're trying to conserve water Yeah, They're trying to conserve water Yeah, They're trying to conserve water Yeah, exactly. exactly. exactly. » water which is a rare commodity these » water which is a rare commodity these » water which is a rare commodity these days and we're days and we're days and we're we're going to be appealing like El we're going to be appealing like El we're going to be appealing like El Dorado's going to draw that in because Dorado's going to draw that in because Dorado's going to draw that in because of our surplus. Yeah, because of our of our surplus. Yeah, because of our of our surplus. Yeah, because of our surplus. Yes. So that will make us surplus. Yes. So that will make us surplus. Yes. So that will make us attractive and as technology is attractive and as technology is attractive and as technology is advancing Right. advancing Right. advancing Right. » there's other ways to cool that is not » there's other ways to cool that is not » there's other ways to cool that is not water. Right. There are. Yes. Yeah. water. Right. There are. Yes. Yeah. water. Right. There are. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, even the closed loop systems are a Yeah, even the closed loop systems are a Yeah, even the closed loop systems are a glycol water combination I think that glycol water combination I think that glycol water combination I think that runs through those systems. Yeah. Yeah, runs through those systems. Yeah. Yeah, runs through those systems. Yeah. Yeah, but no those systems are super but no those systems are super but no those systems are super efficient and it's cool how it works. efficient and it's cool how it works. efficient and it's cool how it works. You know, they use chillers at the end You know, they use chillers at the end You know, they use chillers at the end of the day which Butler Community of the day which Butler Community of the day which Butler Community College as I understand it uses College as I understand it uses College as I understand it uses chillers. Vince told me this. Uses chillers. Vince told me this. Uses chillers. Vince told me this. Uses chillers to run their AC out there. So chillers to run their AC out there. So chillers to run their AC out there. So there's nothing weird about these there's nothing weird about these there's nothing weird about these systems, but they use chillers. So systems, but they use chillers. So systems, but they use chillers. So data centers these days anyway, they're data centers these days anyway, they're data centers these days anyway, they're on concrete floors. They've got cold air on concrete floors. They've got cold air on concrete floors. They've got cold air usually coming in from the sides and usually coming in from the sides and usually coming in from the sides and then the racks are backed up to one then the racks are backed up to one then the racks are backed up to one another essentially. So the hot air is another essentially. So the hot air is another essentially. So the hot air is coming out pointed at one another and coming out pointed at one another and coming out pointed at one another and that hot air is going out through what that hot air is going out through what that hot air is going out through what they call a hot aisle in the data they call a hot aisle in the data they call a hot aisle in the data center. And each all these rows in there center. And each all these rows in there center. And each all these rows in there and that's all being taken up and that's all being taken up and that's all being taken up and running through a heat exchanger where running through a heat exchanger where running through a heat exchanger where that cold air or cold water sorry is that cold air or cold water sorry is that cold air or cold water sorry is going through that hot air hits it cools going through that hot air hits it cools going through that hot air hits it cools the air off. the air off. the air off. The whole thing just rotates and goes The whole thing just rotates and goes The whole thing just rotates and goes back through it. That water that goes back through it. That water that goes back through it. That water that goes through that was cold then it gets hot, through that was cold then it gets hot, through that was cold then it gets hot, right? Because it exchanged that heat right? Because it exchanged that heat right? Because it exchanged that heat then goes back through the chiller and then goes back through the chiller and then goes back through the chiller and gets cold again and so that's the closed gets cold again and so that's the closed gets cold again and so that's the closed loop system. loop system. loop system. » powering the chiller? Is that » powering the chiller? Is that » powering the chiller? Is that electricity? electricity? electricity? » Yeah, electricity that powers the » Yeah, electricity that powers the » Yeah, electricity that powers the chillers. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That makes chillers. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That makes chillers. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. sense. sense. » Yeah. Aren't they always in that » Yeah. Aren't they always in that » Yeah. Aren't they always in that scenario is the power. Yeah, electricity scenario is the power. Yeah, electricity scenario is the power. Yeah, electricity that powers them. So there's not a water that powers them. So there's not a water that powers them. So there's not a water concern in my opinion. concern in my opinion. concern in my opinion. » No. Yeah, I mean they're going to » No. Yeah, I mean they're going to » No. Yeah, I mean they're going to replenish that and refresh those replenish that and refresh those replenish that and refresh those systems. They're not closed forever. systems. They're not closed forever. systems. They're not closed forever. They're going to circulate what's in They're going to circulate what's in They're going to circulate what's in there periodically. But yeah, to Paul's there periodically. But yeah, to Paul's there periodically. But yeah, to Paul's number that he threw out the other day number that he threw out the other day number that he threw out the other day 15,000 gallons a day at most is 15,000 gallons a day at most is 15,000 gallons a day at most is Yeah, and then I saw one that was like Yeah, and then I saw one that was like Yeah, and then I saw one that was like 30,000 gallons in a month. It was 30,000 gallons in a month. It was 30,000 gallons in a month. It was kind of confusing, but I think it's kind of confusing, but I think it's kind of confusing, but I think it's they're talking about is like the next they're talking about is like the next they're talking about is like the next iteration there's some iterations that iteration there's some iterations that iteration there's some iterations that already exist and he did bring that up already exist and he did bring that up already exist and he did bring that up that these things are changing so fast that these things are changing so fast that these things are changing so fast that what they build they're building that what they build they're building that what they build they're building infrastructure for technology they know infrastructure for technology they know infrastructure for technology they know will be here in two to three years. will be here in two to three years. will be here in two to three years. » Exactly. » Exactly. » Exactly. That was interesting. Yes. Yeah. That's That was interesting. Yes. Yeah. That's That was interesting. Yes. Yeah. That's a lot of AI and needing different a lot of AI and needing different a lot of AI and needing different servers. totally AI. Yeah, cuz I think servers. totally AI. Yeah, cuz I think servers. totally AI. Yeah, cuz I think Nvidia's next what is it? Oh gosh, I've Nvidia's next what is it? Oh gosh, I've Nvidia's next what is it? Oh gosh, I've got it written down somewhere. I can't got it written down somewhere. I can't got it written down somewhere. I can't remember the name of it, but their next remember the name of it, but their next remember the name of it, but their next architecture that they have coming out architecture that they have coming out architecture that they have coming out um um um I want to say it's Kepler, but I feel I want to say it's Kepler, but I feel I want to say it's Kepler, but I feel like Kepler was from a long time ago. like Kepler was from a long time ago. like Kepler was from a long time ago. Anyway, Kyber. I knew it was a K. Anyway, Kyber. I knew it was a K. Anyway, Kyber. I knew it was a K. Nvidia's Kyber architecture that's Nvidia's Kyber architecture that's Nvidia's Kyber architecture that's coming out next for their AI dense coming out next for their AI dense coming out next for their AI dense packed racks. Like one rack will be able packed racks. Like one rack will be able packed racks. Like one rack will be able to consume 600 plus kilowatts. One rack to consume 600 plus kilowatts. One rack to consume 600 plus kilowatts. One rack of power and think of a one kilowatt is of power and think of a one kilowatt is of power and think of a one kilowatt is like a hair dryer. A kilowatt like a like a hair dryer. A kilowatt like a like a hair dryer. A kilowatt like a hair dryer does you know, 1,000 1,100 hair dryer does you know, 1,000 1,100 hair dryer does you know, 1,000 1,100 watts essentially. So you're talking 600 watts essentially. So you're talking 600 watts essentially. So you're talking 600 plus kilowatts of power. That's a lot of plus kilowatts of power. That's a lot of plus kilowatts of power. That's a lot of heat that thing is generating and they heat that thing is generating and they heat that thing is generating and they got to figure out how to deal with that got to figure out how to deal with that got to figure out how to deal with that and they're doing that. Yeah. So when and they're doing that. Yeah. So when and they're doing that. Yeah. So when they exhaust out it cools it all down, they exhaust out it cools it all down, they exhaust out it cools it all down, but there's is there some type of air but there's is there some type of air but there's is there some type of air exhaust coming out of that hot air? exhaust coming out of that hot air? exhaust coming out of that hot air? There's definitely heat moving it out There's definitely heat moving it out There's definitely heat moving it out coming out of there. Yeah, and you hear coming out of there. Yeah, and you hear coming out of there. Yeah, and you hear about these heat bubbles or heat zones I about these heat bubbles or heat zones I about these heat bubbles or heat zones I Yeah, yeah. We're talking about heating Yeah, yeah. We're talking about heating Yeah, yeah. We're talking about heating up the ground. Yeah, like around it and up the ground. Yeah, like around it and up the ground. Yeah, like around it and such, but again, at least from the stuff such, but again, at least from the stuff such, but again, at least from the stuff that I found and this is just trying to that I found and this is just trying to that I found and this is just trying to dig through Reddit and look for people dig through Reddit and look for people dig through Reddit and look for people who actually work at data centers and who actually work at data centers and who actually work at data centers and what they're saying. what they're saying. what they're saying. You might see a two three degree You might see a two three degree You might see a two three degree rise in air temperature around a data rise in air temperature around a data rise in air temperature around a data center, but I mean, we're in Kansas. center, but I mean, we're in Kansas. center, but I mean, we're in Kansas. What do we have? Two or three days that What do we have? Two or three days that What do we have? Two or three days that doesn't have wind? I mean, right. It's doesn't have wind? I mean, right. It's doesn't have wind? I mean, right. It's just not going to I don't think it's just not going to I don't think it's just not going to I don't think it's going to do much relative to some of the going to do much relative to some of the going to do much relative to some of the stuff. Again, the hyper sensationalized stuff. Again, the hyper sensationalized stuff. Again, the hyper sensationalized stuff that you read. And I've seen stuff that you read. And I've seen stuff that you read. And I've seen videos, photos of videos, photos of videos, photos of grass and trees all looking amazing at grass and trees all looking amazing at grass and trees all looking amazing at the fence line. Oh, yeah. At data the fence line. Oh, yeah. At data the fence line. Oh, yeah. At data centers, yes. centers, yes. centers, yes. » at the » at the » at the » Oh, yeah. I mean, it I've not seen it » Oh, yeah. I mean, it I've not seen it » Oh, yeah. I mean, it I've not seen it just look like barren wasteland. just look like barren wasteland. just look like barren wasteland. » Yeah, that. No, it's not It's not » Yeah, that. No, it's not It's not » Yeah, that. No, it's not It's not » Ones that have been there for years. » Ones that have been there for years. » Ones that have been there for years. » Exactly. Yeah, and some of these are in » Exactly. Yeah, and some of these are in » Exactly. Yeah, and some of these are in like city areas, whatever they call like city areas, whatever they call like city areas, whatever they call that. City centers, you know, there's that. City centers, you know, there's that. City centers, you know, there's there's a really great uh if you can if there's a really great uh if you can if there's a really great uh if you can if you can stomach his ADD, uh Linus Tech you can stomach his ADD, uh Linus Tech you can stomach his ADD, uh Linus Tech Tips on uh YouTube is a channel. He's Tips on uh YouTube is a channel. He's Tips on uh YouTube is a channel. He's got I think 10 million plus subscribers. got I think 10 million plus subscribers. got I think 10 million plus subscribers. He's a tech guy. He's been on there He's a tech guy. He's been on there He's a tech guy. He's been on there forever. He's got a really cool data forever. He's got a really cool data forever. He's got a really cool data center tour of an Equinix data center in center tour of an Equinix data center in center tour of an Equinix data center in Canada. And this one is kind of in a Canada. And this one is kind of in a Canada. And this one is kind of in a city center. I mean, it's it's located. city center. I mean, it's it's located. city center. I mean, it's it's located. It's not out in the middle of nowhere. It's not out in the middle of nowhere. It's not out in the middle of nowhere. It's multi-stories. But it's cool. He It's multi-stories. But it's cool. He It's multi-stories. But it's cool. He gets access to the whole thing to walk gets access to the whole thing to walk gets access to the whole thing to walk through it and look through it. I would through it and look through it. I would through it and look through it. I would encourage anybody to go and look up that encourage anybody to go and look up that encourage anybody to go and look up that video. And it's on a website we're going video. And it's on a website we're going video. And it's on a website we're going to share here at the end of this podcast to share here at the end of this podcast to share here at the end of this podcast also. Uh I've got a link on it there. also. Uh I've got a link on it there. also. Uh I've got a link on it there. But um yeah, super fascinating to see But um yeah, super fascinating to see But um yeah, super fascinating to see how they run how they run how they run and how these things actually work. and how these things actually work. and how these things actually work. Anyway, I think that's important for Anyway, I think that's important for Anyway, I think that's important for people to see. So, jobs, we get a people to see. So, jobs, we get a people to see. So, jobs, we get a massive influx at the beginning. Right. massive influx at the beginning. Right. massive influx at the beginning. Right. For the construction. For construction, For the construction. For construction, For the construction. For construction, thousands. Yeah. Yeah. So, economic thousands. Yeah. Yeah. So, economic thousands. Yeah. Yeah. So, economic benefits. They're being benefits. They're being benefits. They're being generalized statements saying there's no generalized statements saying there's no generalized statements saying there's no economic benefits is just a blatant lie. economic benefits is just a blatant lie. economic benefits is just a blatant lie. I mean, it's just false. No, yeah. I mean, it's just false. No, yeah. I mean, it's just false. No, yeah. Shouldn't say lie. Shouldn't say lie. Shouldn't say lie. False. It's just false. Yeah. Yeah. False. It's just false. Yeah. Yeah. False. It's just false. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's false information. Correct. Yeah. It's false information. Correct. Yeah. It's false information. Correct. There's massive economic benefits There's massive economic benefits There's massive economic benefits between taxes, between taxes, between taxes, uh utility franchise fees, selling uh utility franchise fees, selling uh utility franchise fees, selling water. Um when the building's built, you water. Um when the building's built, you water. Um when the building's built, you need There's someone's going to get the need There's someone's going to get the need There's someone's going to get the HVAC contract, right? HVAC contract, right? HVAC contract, right? » Sure. Yeah. To maintain these things. » Sure. Yeah. To maintain these things. » Sure. Yeah. To maintain these things. Yeah. These systems. Yeah. These systems. Yeah. These systems. » Someone's » Someone's » Someone's going to be going to be going to be » Right. » Right. » Right. » Yeah. It's not thousands of jobs, but » Yeah. It's not thousands of jobs, but » Yeah. It's not thousands of jobs, but there are people working there. Yeah. there are people working there. Yeah. there are people working there. Yeah. And from what we've seen for the And from what we've seen for the And from what we've seen for the hyperscalers, it's 100 to 200 jobs. hyperscalers, it's 100 to 200 jobs. hyperscalers, it's 100 to 200 jobs. » I mean, maybe I would even say 50 to » I mean, maybe I would even say 50 to » I mean, maybe I would even say 50 to 200. Probably, yeah. And a lot of these 200. Probably, yeah. And a lot of these 200. Probably, yeah. And a lot of these Yeah, I would say that big of a range, Yeah, I would say that big of a range, Yeah, I would say that big of a range, yeah, to be And the average pay, Paul yeah, to be And the average pay, Paul yeah, to be And the average pay, Paul said, was 50 or sorry, 60 to 110. Was it said, was 50 or sorry, 60 to 110. Was it said, was 50 or sorry, 60 to 110. Was it 10? Okay. Yeah. 10? Okay. Yeah. 10? Okay. Yeah. » 105,000. So, good paying jobs. » 105,000. So, good paying jobs. » 105,000. So, good paying jobs. » Yeah. Yeah. They » Yeah. Yeah. They » Yeah. Yeah. They look for local people, which was They look for local people, which was They look for local people, which was cool to hear. No kidding. Yeah. And from cool to hear. No kidding. Yeah. And from cool to hear. No kidding. Yeah. And from a high school level to juko level, a high school level to juko level, a high school level to juko level, » Yeah. also is probably going to be a » Yeah. also is probably going to be a » Yeah. also is probably going to be a draw to El Dorado for Butler. draw to El Dorado for Butler. draw to El Dorado for Butler. » They're going to Butler would benefit. » They're going to Butler would benefit. » They're going to Butler would benefit. » Yeah. Um the high schools would benefit. » Yeah. Um the high schools would benefit. » Yeah. Um the high schools would benefit. » Yeah. Yeah. And knowing that the » Yeah. Yeah. And knowing that the » Yeah. Yeah. And knowing that the technology changes so fast, I thought technology changes so fast, I thought technology changes so fast, I thought that was really interesting that they that was really interesting that they that was really interesting that they don't want people to get a four-year don't want people to get a four-year don't want people to get a four-year degree in Yeah. how to manage these degree in Yeah. how to manage these degree in Yeah. how to manage these databases Yeah, or data centers, yeah. databases Yeah, or data centers, yeah. databases Yeah, or data centers, yeah. data centers uh data centers uh data centers uh because it's changing so fast. Yes. because it's changing so fast. Yes. because it's changing so fast. Yes. » Like the education needs to be quick, » Like the education needs to be quick, » Like the education needs to be quick, updated. Yeah. Yeah. So, these yeah, updated. Yeah. Yeah. So, these yeah, updated. Yeah. Yeah. So, these yeah, six-month, one-year, two-year programs six-month, one-year, two-year programs six-month, one-year, two-year programs are perfect. are perfect. are perfect. » Yep, exactly. » Yep, exactly. » Yep, exactly. » Cuz every two years the hardware » Cuz every two years the hardware » Cuz every two years the hardware changes. changes. changes. » Yeah, it's always evolving. I think that » Yeah, it's always evolving. I think that » Yeah, it's always evolving. I think that was the number you were saying. was the number you were saying. was the number you were saying. » Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah. Uh but » Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah. Uh but » Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah. Uh but so thousands of construction jobs, then so thousands of construction jobs, then so thousands of construction jobs, then you've got ongoing maintenance. There's you've got ongoing maintenance. There's you've got ongoing maintenance. There's going to be subcontractors that are going to be subcontractors that are going to be subcontractors that are involved in some form. Not massive, involved in some form. Not massive, involved in some form. Not massive, » No. but right? Like every facility Yeah. » No. but right? Like every facility Yeah. » No. but right? Like every facility Yeah. needs someone needs someone needs someone for something. for something. for something. » Yeah. That if they're not going to have » Yeah. That if they're not going to have » Yeah. That if they're not going to have it all in house. it all in house. it all in house. » No, huh-uh. But I think the biggest » No, huh-uh. But I think the biggest » No, huh-uh. But I think the biggest benefit in that scenario is the cost to benefit in that scenario is the cost to benefit in that scenario is the cost to infrastructure to the city after the infrastructure to the city after the infrastructure to the city after the thing is built. thing is built. thing is built. » Right. Because I hadn't thought about » Right. Because I hadn't thought about » Right. Because I hadn't thought about this either until somebody told me this either until somebody told me this either until somebody told me this a while back and it and it clicked. Um a while back and it and it clicked. Um a while back and it and it clicked. Um if a larger company comes to town that if a larger company comes to town that if a larger company comes to town that brings a thousand jobs with it, right? brings a thousand jobs with it, right? brings a thousand jobs with it, right? Off the top of my head and always in the Off the top of my head and always in the Off the top of my head and always in the past when I've heard that, I'm like, past when I've heard that, I'm like, past when I've heard that, I'm like, yeah, let's go find that. Where's that yeah, let's go find that. Where's that yeah, let's go find that. Where's that company? But then you realize that those company? But then you realize that those company? But then you realize that those thousand jobs have to have homes for thousand jobs have to have homes for thousand jobs have to have homes for people to live in. There's got to be people to live in. There's got to be people to live in. There's got to be more police, more fire, Yeah. more police, more fire, Yeah. more police, more fire, Yeah. more infrastructure to support however many infrastructure to support however many infrastructure to support however many more people are coming into the city. more people are coming into the city. more people are coming into the city. And so we're going to bear the cost of And so we're going to bear the cost of And so we're going to bear the cost of that as citizens probably to try to that as citizens probably to try to that as citizens probably to try to support that thing, right? So, how do support that thing, right? So, how do support that thing, right? So, how do you balance that out you balance that out you balance that out » Yeah, they get an abatement no matter » Yeah, they get an abatement no matter » Yeah, they get an abatement no matter what. Once they bring in a massive job what. Once they bring in a massive job what. Once they bring in a massive job count, count, count, » They're going to get an abatement, yes. » They're going to get an abatement, yes. » They're going to get an abatement, yes. So, how are we going to deal with that? So, how are we going to deal with that? So, how are we going to deal with that? That's And a lot of people don't think That's And a lot of people don't think That's And a lot of people don't think about that from a balancing a about that from a balancing a about that from a balancing a budget, which was a great podcast. I budget, which was a great podcast. I budget, which was a great podcast. I encourage anyone to go listen to David encourage anyone to go listen to David encourage anyone to go listen to David DeLongis, DeLongis, DeLongis, » Yes. city manager, but when you do that, » Yes. city manager, but when you do that, » Yes. city manager, but when you do that, you're you're multiplying fire you're you're multiplying fire you're you're multiplying fire department, Yeah. Yeah. department, Yeah. Yeah. department, Yeah. Yeah. » police officers, which are already hard » police officers, which are already hard » police officers, which are already hard It's stretched thin anyway It's stretched thin anyway It's stretched thin anyway » Yeah, and kind of maybe stretched thin » Yeah, and kind of maybe stretched thin » Yeah, and kind of maybe stretched thin anyway as it is. anyway as it is. anyway as it is. » Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um but yeah, knowing » Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um but yeah, knowing » Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um but yeah, knowing that job count and then the massive that job count and then the massive that job count and then the massive economic benefit, Yeah, which that's the economic benefit, Yeah, which that's the economic benefit, Yeah, which that's the cool thing about a data center. Yeah. cool thing about a data center. Yeah. cool thing about a data center. Yeah. You don't need all of the extra housing You don't need all of the extra housing You don't need all of the extra housing and police and fire and all the extra and police and fire and all the extra and police and fire and all the extra infrastructure, the roads, everything to infrastructure, the roads, everything to infrastructure, the roads, everything to support that. So, you get the tax Yeah, support that. So, you get the tax Yeah, support that. So, you get the tax Yeah, you're right. You get the tax benefit you're right. You get the tax benefit you're right. You get the tax benefit Yes, without all of the infrastructure Yes, without all of the infrastructure Yes, without all of the infrastructure that also has to rise with it countering that also has to rise with it countering that also has to rise with it countering it out. I it out. I it out. I It's just hard for me to think of a It's just hard for me to think of a It's just hard for me to think of a better scenario. And again, I'm not better scenario. And again, I'm not better scenario. And again, I'm not trying to pander to Sure. Data centers trying to pander to Sure. Data centers trying to pander to Sure. Data centers are good and that's all you should do, are good and that's all you should do, are good and that's all you should do, but it's really difficult for me to but it's really difficult for me to but it's really difficult for me to imagine a better scenario for a town, imagine a better scenario for a town, imagine a better scenario for a town, especially of our size, Yeah. to have especially of our size, Yeah. to have especially of our size, Yeah. to have extra tax revenue coming in without all extra tax revenue coming in without all extra tax revenue coming in without all the liability that usually comes with it the liability that usually comes with it the liability that usually comes with it financially. We were financially. We were financially. We were I can't remember what rank we were, but I can't remember what rank we were, but I can't remember what rank we were, but we were considered for a couple car we were considered for a couple car we were considered for a couple car manufacturing plants. manufacturing plants. manufacturing plants. » Yeah, Toyota was one of them, right? » Yeah, Toyota was one of them, right? » Yeah, Toyota was one of them, right? Toyota, yeah. Yeah. And honestly, Toyota, yeah. Yeah. And honestly, Toyota, yeah. Yeah. And honestly, that'd be tough to pull off. And the big that'd be tough to pull off. And the big that'd be tough to pull off. And the big reason » we weren't considered anymore was » we weren't considered anymore was » we weren't considered anymore was housing and employee access. Yeah. housing and employee access. Yeah. housing and employee access. Yeah. Right? So, hey, how can you have this Right? So, hey, how can you have this Right? So, hey, how can you have this many more houses? Well, that city has to many more houses? Well, that city has to many more houses? Well, that city has to annex and then expand infrastructure. annex and then expand infrastructure. annex and then expand infrastructure. People think just throw up a bunch of People think just throw up a bunch of People think just throw up a bunch of houses, but you've got to get water, houses, but you've got to get water, houses, but you've got to get water, sewer, sewer, sewer, » Yeah. electrical. Like There's so much » Yeah. electrical. Like There's so much » Yeah. electrical. Like There's so much of the infrastructure that has to be in of the infrastructure that has to be in of the infrastructure that has to be in place, yeah. And so you can make the place, yeah. And so you can make the place, yeah. And so you can make the argument, well, let's look for the argument, well, let's look for the argument, well, let's look for the companies that add 100 extra jobs. Okay, companies that add 100 extra jobs. Okay, companies that add 100 extra jobs. Okay, I'm all for that. Let's do it. That's a I'm all for that. Let's do it. That's a I'm all for that. Let's do it. That's a great way to scale up, but let's not great way to scale up, but let's not great way to scale up, but let's not also ignore this one. It's It's not also ignore this one. It's It's not also ignore this one. It's It's not going to be tiny. No, huh-uh. It's not going to be tiny. No, huh-uh. It's not going to be tiny. No, huh-uh. It's not going to work the same, yeah. So, let's going to work the same, yeah. So, let's going to work the same, yeah. So, let's let's go after both. Yeah. Yeah, let's go after both. Yeah. Yeah, let's go after both. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And we have use cases. I, you exactly. And we have use cases. I, you exactly. And we have use cases. I, you know, know, know, do we have land that fits this do we have land that fits this do we have land that fits this opportunity, right? We have some sites opportunity, right? We have some sites opportunity, right? We have some sites that are already zoned We do. that are already zoned We do. that are already zoned We do. industrial. Yep. Um we have a site in industrial. Yep. Um we have a site in industrial. Yep. Um we have a site in particular that used to have a refinery particular that used to have a refinery particular that used to have a refinery that has that has that has got things in the soil Yes. that make it got things in the soil Yes. that make it got things in the soil Yes. that make it really difficult to put other businesses really difficult to put other businesses really difficult to put other businesses there. there. there. » there, yes. Yeah. Uh and maybe not a » there, yes. Yeah. Uh and maybe not a » there, yes. Yeah. Uh and maybe not a Yep. But it is close to homes, that Yep. But it is close to homes, that Yep. But it is close to homes, that site. So, there would have to be a lot site. So, there would have to be a lot site. So, there would have to be a lot of mitigation things put in, you know, of mitigation things put in, you know, of mitigation things put in, you know, in place. Make sure those are there. in place. Make sure those are there. in place. Make sure those are there. Yeah. Yeah, and but we also have a site Yeah. Yeah, and but we also have a site Yeah. Yeah, and but we also have a site out northwest, too, that could be for out northwest, too, that could be for out northwest, too, that could be for that. But then you get into the Well, that. But then you get into the Well, that. But then you get into the Well, that's Circle School District and that's that's Circle School District and that's that's Circle School District and that's not going to benefit USD 490 and that's not going to benefit USD 490 and that's not going to benefit USD 490 and that's another big deal. another big deal. another big deal. » listening, when uh money's involved for » listening, when uh money's involved for » listening, when uh money's involved for school districts and city, uh and school districts and city, uh and school districts and city, uh and honestly, outside of that, who's going honestly, outside of that, who's going honestly, outside of that, who's going to We don't We don't benefit. to We don't We don't benefit. to We don't We don't benefit. » We don't benefit at all. No. » We don't benefit at all. No. » We don't benefit at all. No. » And I think the people that are going to » And I think the people that are going to » And I think the people that are going to be for this, Mhm. be for this, Mhm. be for this, Mhm. the only benefit is them saying their the only benefit is them saying their the only benefit is them saying their opinion on what's best for the city as a opinion on what's best for the city as a opinion on what's best for the city as a whole. Yeah. Those that are opposed it whole. Yeah. Those that are opposed it whole. Yeah. Those that are opposed it are honestly just saying what they are honestly just saying what they are honestly just saying what they think's best for the city as a whole think's best for the city as a whole think's best for the city as a whole long term. long term. long term. » Right. Yeah. So, both sides » Right. Yeah. So, both sides » Right. Yeah. So, both sides have the same outcome in their mind. have the same outcome in their mind. have the same outcome in their mind. » is having has an evil intent with this » is having has an evil intent with this » is having has an evil intent with this thing or has an intent to harm the city thing or has an intent to harm the city thing or has an intent to harm the city of El Dorado. No. Uh the fear of AI and of El Dorado. No. Uh the fear of AI and of El Dorado. No. Uh the fear of AI and AI will run these data centers, that's a AI will run these data centers, that's a AI will run these data centers, that's a common I'm seeing a lot common I'm seeing a lot common I'm seeing a lot » Yeah. Yeah. that is confusing cuz it » Yeah. Yeah. that is confusing cuz it » Yeah. Yeah. that is confusing cuz it takes still takes humans. takes still takes humans. takes still takes humans. Robotics are It It's a ways away. It's a Robotics are It It's a ways away. It's a Robotics are It It's a ways away. It's a ways away. Yes, maybe someday, but yeah. ways away. Yes, maybe someday, but yeah. ways away. Yes, maybe someday, but yeah. But you still need humans to work, But you still need humans to work, But you still need humans to work, replace hardware. You need replace hardware. You need replace hardware. You need accountability system, security. accountability system, security. accountability system, security. Yeah, all of these things. Like you Yeah, all of these things. Like you Yeah, all of these things. Like you said, there's a lot of sensitive said, there's a lot of sensitive said, there's a lot of sensitive information. My goodness, yeah. I information. My goodness, yeah. I information. My goodness, yeah. I thought another good point for a thought another good point for a thought another good point for a community benefit was say community benefit was say community benefit was say Oracle throws up a hyperscaler. Kids in El Dorado, Kansas, for example, Kids in El Dorado, Kansas, for example, kids going to Butler Community College, kids going to Butler Community College, kids going to Butler Community College, they don't have a lot of access to that they don't have a lot of access to that they don't have a lot of access to that opportunity. And Paul brought this up opportunity. And Paul brought this up opportunity. And Paul brought this up and I thought that was a neat and I thought that was a neat and I thought that was a neat correlation to like that wouldn't be the correlation to like that wouldn't be the correlation to like that wouldn't be the only job, right? only job, right? only job, right? That that could be a stepping stone into That that could be a stepping stone into That that could be a stepping stone into a a a large organization, a really cool large organization, a really cool large organization, a really cool opportunity that they want to get. opportunity that they want to get. opportunity that they want to get. Otherwise, yeah. Otherwise, yeah. Otherwise, yeah. » Otherwise, right? Like getting there, » Otherwise, right? Like getting there, » Otherwise, right? Like getting there, especially if you don't get past the especially if you don't get past the especially if you don't get past the community college level Mhm. community college level Mhm. community college level Mhm. » Um or don't have some degree of » Um or don't have some degree of » Um or don't have some degree of expertise that you've developed and expertise that you've developed and expertise that you've developed and wouldn't even know to develop. Right. wouldn't even know to develop. Right. wouldn't even know to develop. Right. Yeah. Be in high school and have someone Yeah. Be in high school and have someone Yeah. Be in high school and have someone from there visit and say, we have from there visit and say, we have from there visit and say, we have opportunity. Here's a program we have opportunity. Here's a program we have opportunity. Here's a program we have you can go to. you can go to. you can go to. » Yeah, what a cool thing. » Yeah, what a cool thing. » Yeah, what a cool thing. » you get thrown into our future » you get thrown into our future » you get thrown into our future infrastructure, which isn't going infrastructure, which isn't going infrastructure, which isn't going anywhere and we can't slow it down. No. anywhere and we can't slow it down. No. anywhere and we can't slow it down. No. » here, it goes somewhere else. It goes » here, it goes somewhere else. It goes » here, it goes somewhere else. It goes somewhere else. somewhere else. somewhere else. » probably the scary part from » probably the scary part from » probably the scary part from my perspective when I do believe this my perspective when I do believe this my perspective when I do believe this could be a massive infrastructure could be a massive infrastructure could be a massive infrastructure enhancement for our city. enhancement for our city. enhancement for our city. That is doing the best we can with That is doing the best we can with That is doing the best we can with what we have. what we have. what we have. » Yep. Um but it's it's it's going to be » Yep. Um but it's it's it's going to be » Yep. Um but it's it's it's going to be tough. It's going to be tough, right? tough. It's going to be tough, right? tough. It's going to be tough, right? » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. We don't have a ton of things booming in We don't have a ton of things booming in We don't have a ton of things booming in this town besides some of the new stuff this town besides some of the new stuff this town besides some of the new stuff and in the industrial park that's and in the industrial park that's and in the industrial park that's coming. coming. coming. And we're always looking for how to And we're always looking for how to And we're always looking for how to enhance, build up downtown, make this a enhance, build up downtown, make this a enhance, build up downtown, make this a place Man, yeah. place Man, yeah. place Man, yeah. » Get the roads caught up. I always hear » Get the roads caught up. I always hear » Get the roads caught up. I always hear complaints about roads. Or snow removal. complaints about roads. Or snow removal. complaints about roads. Or snow removal. » Snow removal or reduce property taxes, » Snow removal or reduce property taxes, » Snow removal or reduce property taxes, which boy, I will stand out there on the which boy, I will stand out there on the which boy, I will stand out there on the side of the road with a sign with that. side of the road with a sign with that. side of the road with a sign with that. Again, that resonates with all of Again, that resonates with all of Again, that resonates with all of us. Yeah. That would be huge. Yeah. If us. Yeah. That would be huge. Yeah. If us. Yeah. That would be huge. Yeah. If If your property tax dropped by If your property tax dropped by If your property tax dropped by maybe close to zero. I mean, maybe close to zero. I mean, maybe close to zero. I mean, theoretically, but yeah. Not saying that theoretically, but yeah. Not saying that theoretically, but yeah. Not saying that would happen. Sorry for anybody that would happen. Sorry for anybody that would happen. Sorry for anybody who's actually in charge of that who's actually in charge of that who's actually in charge of that kind of pressure. But I mean, kind of pressure. But I mean, kind of pressure. But I mean, if we see the bottom line money coming if we see the bottom line money coming if we see the bottom line money coming in, we're all going to be really pushing in, we're all going to be really pushing in, we're all going to be really pushing towards that. And I think that's kind of towards that. And I think that's kind of towards that. And I think that's kind of the core of the biggest frustration the core of the biggest frustration the core of the biggest frustration living here today is property tax. And living here today is property tax. And living here today is property tax. And well, here's something that could well, here's something that could well, here's something that could potentially offset that real quick. potentially offset that real quick. potentially offset that real quick. But yeah, a 100 person company that But yeah, a 100 person company that But yeah, a 100 person company that throws up throws up throws up you know steel frame building you know steel frame building you know steel frame building is not going to offset our property is not going to offset our property is not going to offset our property taxes. taxes. taxes. This could this really could This could this really could This could this really could last point on that just that since it it last point on that just that since it it last point on that just that since it it comes off like a sense of urgency but comes off like a sense of urgency but comes off like a sense of urgency but it's it's fomo. It's a fear of missing it's it's fomo. It's a fear of missing it's it's fomo. It's a fear of missing out on a out on a out on a potentially once in a generational potentially once in a generational potentially once in a generational opportunity for an economic benefit to a opportunity for an economic benefit to a opportunity for an economic benefit to a town like us town like us town like us for how we're set up. Cuz for how we're set up. Cuz for how we're set up. Cuz say they throw in I don't know 10 say they throw in I don't know 10 say they throw in I don't know 10 hyperscalers in the whole state right hyperscalers in the whole state right hyperscalers in the whole state right and that's the number and that's the number and that's the number that's going to actually come to the that's going to actually come to the that's going to actually come to the state and we don't get one of them state and we don't get one of them state and we don't get one of them the amount of infrastructure and money the amount of infrastructure and money the amount of infrastructure and money that goes into this like that goes into this like that goes into this like what are the odds were what are the odds were what are the odds were those just keep expanding in that same those just keep expanding in that same those just keep expanding in that same territory right so if it goes into I territory right so if it goes into I territory right so if it goes into I don't know what the one that we've don't know what the one that we've don't know what the one that we've talked about in is it Libo talked about in is it Libo » [clears throat] » Desoto » Desoto » Desoto put in what was it a Panasonic? Desoto put in what was it a Panasonic? Desoto put in what was it a Panasonic? Desoto the battery plants that you're Desoto the battery plants that you're Desoto the battery plants that you're talking about yeah the talking about yeah the talking about yeah the Panasonic battery plant that they're Panasonic battery plant that they're Panasonic battery plant that they're they're proposing and discussing taking they're proposing and discussing taking they're proposing and discussing taking away all property tax away all property tax away all property tax right and they're a much smaller like right and they're a much smaller like right and they're a much smaller like it's a it's an edge case for data it's a it's an edge case for data it's a it's an edge case for data centers like I got to be clear about centers like I got to be clear about centers like I got to be clear about that cuz they don't have that cuz they don't have that cuz they don't have they don't have a police force right they don't have a police force right they don't have a police force right like their economics are nuances of this like their economics are nuances of this like their economics are nuances of this yeah » [clears throat] » [clears throat] » [clears throat] » and so there's just talk of like that » and so there's just talk of like that » and so there's just talk of like that could potentially happen. What is that could potentially happen. What is that could potentially happen. What is that going to do to that community? going to do to that community? going to do to that community? That'll probably draw people in to build That'll probably draw people in to build That'll probably draw people in to build and remodel and not worry about when you and remodel and not worry about when you and remodel and not worry about when you want to add another bathroom to your want to add another bathroom to your want to add another bathroom to your house your property taxes is going to go up I your property taxes is going to go up I your property taxes is going to go up I mean that's a common thing like I don't mean that's a common thing like I don't mean that's a common thing like I don't want to do this because want to do this because want to do this because my appraisal go up my appraisal go up my appraisal go up could be a podcast could be a podcast could be a podcast we do we do we do property taxes man that's good what else property taxes man that's good what else property taxes man that's good what else you got that is quick question what else you got that is quick question what else you got that is quick question what else do I have I feel like I had some other do I have I feel like I had some other do I have I feel like I had some other one I'm sure you got a lot there are one I'm sure you got a lot there are one I'm sure you got a lot there are where we at on time? 51 minutes where we at on time? 51 minutes where we at on time? 51 minutes That went by fast that did go by fast That went by fast that did go by fast That went by fast that did go by fast you know we did just know some we do you know we did just know some we do you know we did just know some we do know people who just went into a site know people who just went into a site know people who just went into a site visit for a data center visit for a data center visit for a data center they said they stood out in front of one they said they stood out in front of one they said they stood out in front of one of these very large data centers one was of these very large data centers one was of these very large data centers one was complete one was under construction and complete one was under construction and complete one was under construction and got to tour the one under construction got to tour the one under construction got to tour the one under construction they didn't get the tour of the one they didn't get the tour of the one they didn't get the tour of the one complete cuz that's really complete cuz that's really complete cuz that's really difficult to get a tour on a data center difficult to get a tour on a data center difficult to get a tour on a data center but they stood outside the one that was but they stood outside the one that was but they stood outside the one that was complete and they said the loudest thing complete and they said the loudest thing complete and they said the loudest thing there was when a car drove by or the guy there was when a car drove by or the guy there was when a car drove by or the guy mowing the lawn you know mowing the lawn you know mowing the lawn you know the decibel that the decibel thing like the decibel that the decibel thing like the decibel that the decibel thing like yeah running on the microphone. yeah running on the microphone. yeah running on the microphone. They were measuring it yes which They were measuring it yes which They were measuring it yes which says a lot I think there's just so much says a lot I think there's just so much says a lot I think there's just so much thought going into thought going into thought going into this concept it's definitely not a quick this concept it's definitely not a quick this concept it's definitely not a quick turnaround concept that's a fly by night turnaround concept that's a fly by night turnaround concept that's a fly by night deal that the city is pursuing and deal that the city is pursuing and deal that the city is pursuing and that's one of those false rumors that's one of those false rumors that's one of those false rumors that it's not and there's not a it's not and there's not a it's not and there's not a you and I aren't ever remember we have you and I aren't ever remember we have you and I aren't ever remember we have any kind of Amazon's Amazon's not any kind of Amazon's Amazon's not any kind of Amazon's Amazon's not knocking at our door one of the big five knocking at our door one of the big five knocking at our door one of the big five Amazon meta Oracle Amazon meta Oracle Amazon meta Oracle I can't even think of all of them right I can't even think of all of them right I can't even think of all of them right now but anyway none of them are knocking now but anyway none of them are knocking now but anyway none of them are knocking at the door right now. Yeah but they're at the door right now. Yeah but they're at the door right now. Yeah but they're going to be eventually especially I mean going to be eventually especially I mean going to be eventually especially I mean it might seem hard to do right now but it might seem hard to do right now but it might seem hard to do right now but especially if the community was like especially if the community was like especially if the community was like yeah we might actually be open to yeah we might actually be open to yeah we might actually be open to hearing more about this hearing more about this hearing more about this so many of them are shutting them out so many of them are shutting them out so many of them are shutting them out right now I think they're looking for right now I think they're looking for right now I think they're looking for places to go so yeah inevitably we're places to go so yeah inevitably we're places to go so yeah inevitably we're going to hear about one sooner than going to hear about one sooner than going to hear about one sooner than later I think yeah whether the community later I think yeah whether the community later I think yeah whether the community is a resounding okay or if it's not and is a resounding okay or if it's not and is a resounding okay or if it's not and Paul who's talks to is talking to the Paul who's talks to is talking to the Paul who's talks to is talking to the big guys the big five. He said there are big guys the big five. He said there are big guys the big five. He said there are some in Kansas right looking some in some in Kansas right looking some in some in Kansas right looking some in Kansas looking Kansas looking Kansas looking and he made it really clear that the and he made it really clear that the and he made it really clear that the most important thing to them is that a most important thing to them is that a most important thing to them is that a community wants them right because they community wants them right because they community wants them right because they want to partner with a community want to partner with a community want to partner with a community give back to a community have your list give back to a community have your list give back to a community have your list ready what battery plant I mean multi-billion battery plant I mean multi-billion battery plant I mean multi-billion dollar company I mean multi-trillion dollar company I mean multi-trillion dollar company I mean multi-trillion dollar valuations dollar valuations dollar valuations market value goes now for some of these market value goes now for some of these market value goes now for some of these companies publicly traded if they go companies publicly traded if they go companies publicly traded if they go ruin a community my goodness that's not ruin a community my goodness that's not ruin a community my goodness that's not good press. You good press. You good press. You know they've got PR involved in this too know they've got PR involved in this too know they've got PR involved in this too and to be absolutely do people to work and to be absolutely do people to work and to be absolutely do people to work there and if the whole community doesn't want and if the whole community doesn't want and if the whole community doesn't want you there you probably don't want to you there you probably don't want to you there you probably don't want to work there cuz everyone hates that work there cuz everyone hates that work there cuz everyone hates that you're supporting exactly you're supporting exactly you're supporting exactly there is a lot yeah there's a lot to it there is a lot yeah there's a lot to it there is a lot yeah there's a lot to it and you can't you just unfortunately we and you can't you just unfortunately we and you can't you just unfortunately we don't get to know who those are because don't get to know who those are because don't get to know who those are because some of them are publicly traded some of them are publicly traded some of them are publicly traded companies and even if it's like open AI companies and even if it's like open AI companies and even if it's like open AI who's not yet they are going to be who's not yet they are going to be who's not yet they are going to be eventually but even then they want to eventually but even then they want to eventually but even then they want to keep their competitive advantage and keep their competitive advantage and keep their competitive advantage and their other competitors not know where their other competitors not know where their other competitors not know where they're going right now. These sites are they're going right now. These sites are they're going right now. These sites are so hard to find that's the other thing so hard to find that's the other thing so hard to find that's the other thing and I mean this is you can't leak this and I mean this is you can't leak this and I mean this is you can't leak this stuff it's like you go to prison if you stuff it's like you go to prison if you stuff it's like you go to prison if you leak this stuff on some levels leak this stuff on some levels leak this stuff on some levels especially if it's a publicly traded especially if it's a publicly traded especially if it's a publicly traded company I mean you know there's NDAs I company I mean you know there's NDAs I company I mean you know there's NDAs I mean if it if it comes to that point mean if it if it comes to that point mean if it if it comes to that point anybody that knows first anybody that knows first anybody that knows first our community they're not allowed to our community they're not allowed to our community they're not allowed to they're not going to be able to say they're not going to be able to say they're not going to be able to say anything cuz they're under NDAs yeah anything cuz they're under NDAs yeah anything cuz they're under NDAs yeah which is also why having these policies which is also why having these policies which is also why having these policies planning and zoning thinking through planning and zoning thinking through planning and zoning thinking through what the special use permit will look what the special use permit will look what the special use permit will look like and then the city commission like and then the city commission like and then the city commission putting thought into that. That's going putting thought into that. That's going putting thought into that. That's going to protect that right and maybe take to protect that right and maybe take to protect that right and maybe take away some of that away some of that away some of that fear yeah I don't know you know we've talked yeah I don't know you know we've talked about. about. about. Power we've talked about I mean I've Power we've talked about I mean I've Power we've talked about I mean I've seen fire risks you know out there the seen fire risks you know out there the seen fire risks you know out there the battery stuff but gosh that's just we battery stuff but gosh that's just we battery stuff but gosh that's just we already have a lot of fires batteries in already have a lot of fires batteries in already have a lot of fires batteries in all of our we have a lot of fires all of our we have a lot of fires all of our we have a lot of fires a lot going on right now a lot going on right now a lot going on right now controlled fortunately we you know controlled fortunately we you know controlled fortunately we you know you've got lithium batteries in your you've got lithium batteries in your you've got lithium batteries in your pocket everywhere there's lithium pocket everywhere there's lithium pocket everywhere there's lithium batteries in cars and yeah you see the batteries in cars and yeah you see the batteries in cars and yeah you see the sensational headlines sensationalized sensational headlines sensationalized sensational headlines sensationalized headlines of Tesla's blowing up they headlines of Tesla's blowing up they headlines of Tesla's blowing up they just don't really there is I was I was just don't really there is I was I was just don't really there is I was I was trying to remember what it was called trying to remember what it was called trying to remember what it was called they're called vesda systems it stands they're called vesda systems it stands they're called vesda systems it stands for very early smoke detection apparatus for very early smoke detection apparatus for very early smoke detection apparatus that are in these data centers like that are in these data centers like that are in these data centers like super advanced systems. To detect when super advanced systems. To detect when super advanced systems. To detect when smoke cuz again dude they're lost they smoke cuz again dude they're lost they smoke cuz again dude they're lost they can't afford to lose stuff no so they can't afford to lose stuff no so they can't afford to lose stuff no so they want to know when it happens they have want to know when it happens they have want to know when it happens they have the suppression systems in place they the suppression systems in place they the suppression systems in place they work with local fire departments to work with local fire departments to work with local fire departments to understand protocol if something does understand protocol if something does understand protocol if something does happen I guarantee you they don't want their I guarantee you they don't want their I guarantee you they don't want their place to burn down or their batteries to place to burn down or their batteries to place to burn down or their batteries to explode much more than I do explode much more than I do explode much more than I do » » » » they're it's just I don't think that's » they're it's just I don't think that's » they're it's just I don't think that's and the other part of this especially and the other part of this especially and the other part of this especially with the big five you're this building with the big five you're this building with the big five you're this building isn't going to be empty someday isn't going to be empty someday isn't going to be empty someday the infrastructure whether you. Agree the infrastructure whether you. Agree the infrastructure whether you. Agree with AI or not whether you agree with AI or not whether you agree with AI or not whether you agree with internet or not it's shaping internet or not it's shaping internet or not it's shaping infrastructure and there is a race infrastructure and there is a race infrastructure and there is a race across the globe right now across the globe right now across the globe right now to lead in this to lead in this which is to lead in this to lead in this which is to lead in this to lead in this which is why you're partly seeing a lot of this why you're partly seeing a lot of this why you're partly seeing a lot of this crazy growth right now with it yeah crazy growth right now with it yeah crazy growth right now with it yeah we're trying to win the win the race we're trying to win the win the race we're trying to win the win the race it's it's hard to understand the numbers it's it's hard to understand the numbers it's it's hard to understand the numbers what goes into this versus what goes into this versus what goes into this versus goodness yes wild talk about the information hub. You've talk about the information hub. You've been building been building been building Eldorado Inc yep Eldorado Inc Eldorado Inc yep Eldorado Inc Eldorado Inc yep Eldorado Inc came to us for killer growth to help came to us for killer growth to help came to us for killer growth to help them build out a website to where a lot them build out a website to where a lot them build out a website to where a lot of this information is on and so yeah my of this information is on and so yeah my of this information is on and so yeah my head's been in this a lot for the past head's been in this a lot for the past head's been in this a lot for the past couple weeks I've been working with couple weeks I've been working with couple weeks I've been working with Sarah there and a couple other people Sarah there and a couple other people Sarah there and a couple other people trying to understand obviously I've not trying to understand obviously I've not trying to understand obviously I've not grasped the property tax side very well grasped the property tax side very well grasped the property tax side very well yet sorry about that yet sorry about that yet sorry about that » » » » but » but » but yeah just technically trying to grasp yeah just technically trying to grasp yeah just technically trying to grasp all the all the concept of this and yeah all the all the concept of this and yeah all the all the concept of this and yeah anyway Eldorado datacenter.com. anyway Eldorado datacenter.com. anyway Eldorado datacenter.com. Is the site address where you can go to Is the site address where you can go to Is the site address where you can go to and read about a lot of this you see and read about a lot of this you see and read about a lot of this you see these resources we put in we've tried to these resources we put in we've tried to these resources we put in we've tried to look up factual stuff look up factual stuff look up factual stuff really it's not just all me you know really it's not just all me you know really it's not just all me you know it's not all just flat out written by AI it's not all just flat out written by AI it's not all just flat out written by AI site built by AI and done in 5 minutes site built by AI and done in 5 minutes site built by AI and done in 5 minutes like hours and hours have gone into this like hours and hours have gone into this like hours and hours have gone into this thing to try to understand the good and thing to try to understand the good and thing to try to understand the good and the bad sides of it and try to come up the bad sides of it and try to come up the bad sides of it and try to come up with the facts of it like I said for with the facts of it like I said for with the facts of it like I said for myself personally myself personally myself personally I've really tried to dig in to different I've really tried to dig in to different I've really tried to dig in to different like on Reddit to understand these like on Reddit to understand these like on Reddit to understand these things and look for the people who are things and look for the people who are things and look for the people who are working in these things look for the working in these things look for the working in these things look for the people who are on these. Things it's people who are on these. Things it's people who are on these. Things it's fascinating people working in them just fascinating people working in them just fascinating people working in them just time and time again I see comments where time and time again I see comments where time and time again I see comments where they're going I don't understand like they're going I don't understand like they're going I don't understand like the noise thing they're like I don't the noise thing they're like I don't the noise thing they're like I don't understand why this keeps coming it's it understand why this keeps coming it's it understand why this keeps coming it's it confuses » » » » legitimately confuses these guys and » legitimately confuses these guys and » legitimately confuses these guys and gals who work in these places gals who work in these places gals who work in these places a lot of these issues that are floating a lot of these issues that are floating a lot of these issues that are floating around out there right now and a couple around out there right now and a couple around out there right now and a couple years ago years ago years ago none of this was out there you wouldn't none of this was out there you wouldn't none of this was out there you wouldn't have found I yeah let's say 5 years ago have found I yeah let's say 5 years ago have found I yeah let's say 5 years ago you wouldn't have found any of this you wouldn't have found any of this you wouldn't have found any of this you know these issues out there that you know these issues out there that you know these issues out there that have popped up now that all this have popped up now that all this have popped up now that all this growth is happening really quickly. It growth is happening really quickly. It growth is happening really quickly. It takes one person that had a bad takes one person that had a bad takes one person that had a bad experience to call the experience to call the experience to call the news station because of what we're news station because of what we're news station because of what we're talking about the lack of planning a state that's not the lack of planning a state that's not thinking ahead and Kansas is so behind thinking ahead and Kansas is so behind thinking ahead and Kansas is so behind which is which is which is awesome for us we were so behind we awesome for us we were so behind we awesome for us we were so behind we don't have a bunch of them already here don't have a bunch of them already here don't have a bunch of them already here you look at a map and Google that you look at a map and Google that you look at a map and Google that you can look at a map of all the data can look at a map of all the data can look at a map of all the data centers all over the country and we're centers all over the country and we're centers all over the country and we're real low not the lowest but right there real low not the lowest but right there real low not the lowest but right there and that's our benefit. We've had time and that's our benefit. We've had time and that's our benefit. We've had time to watch and learn and the state's to watch and learn and the state's to watch and learn and the state's putting together policies that are going putting together policies that are going putting together policies that are going to protect communities from being ruined to protect communities from being ruined to protect communities from being ruined and we're also and we're also and we're also partnering with the state and every partnering with the state and every partnering with the state and every other community should other community should other community should can you vet I mean they're they're can you vet I mean they're they're can you vet I mean they're they're supplying opportunity to say is this supplying opportunity to say is this supplying opportunity to say is this going to be a good partner I think going to be a good partner I think going to be a good partner I think that's awesome at the state level that's awesome at the state level that's awesome at the state level supporting any community that wants to supporting any community that wants to supporting any community that wants to know and wants a and wants a and wants a interested party to be vetted. To prove interested party to be vetted. To prove interested party to be vetted. To prove like this is legit like this is legit like this is legit this will be a good partner they're not this will be a good partner they're not this will be a good partner they're not going to ruin you know going to ruin you know going to ruin you know your town your town your town no more than our refinery has which the no more than our refinery has which the no more than our refinery has which the refinery's been great our lake has been refinery's been great our lake has been refinery's been great our lake has been great I heard the other day that the great I heard the other day that the great I heard the other day that the lake was seriously opposed before it lake was seriously opposed before it lake was seriously opposed before it happened like there was a lot of happened like there was a lot of happened like there was a lot of opposition to the refinery the lake opposition to the refinery the lake opposition to the refinery the lake Eldorado Lake before they you know used Eldorado Lake before they you know used Eldorado Lake before they you know used to be two separate lakes they combined to be two separate lakes they combined to be two separate lakes they combined into what we have today there was a lot into what we have today there was a lot into what we have today there was a lot of opposition around that and I think of opposition around that and I think of opposition around that and I think everybody today would be like I love the everybody today would be like I love the everybody today would be like I love the lake so there's always been huge economic so there's always been huge economic so there's always been huge economic opportunity because of the lake. There opportunity because of the lake. There opportunity because of the lake. There has been yeah but on the flip side has been yeah but on the flip side has been yeah but on the flip side there's also been the prison you know there's also been the prison you know there's also been the prison you know which is there was a lot of support which is there was a lot of support which is there was a lot of support around the prison and that maybe has not around the prison and that maybe has not around the prison and that maybe has not been as great for us. A lot of people been as great for us. A lot of people been as great for us. A lot of people would argue. So, I get it. You have to would argue. So, I get it. You have to would argue. So, I get it. You have to weigh and understand both sides of the weigh and understand both sides of the weigh and understand both sides of the deal. Yeah. Yeah, which what we're deal. Yeah. Yeah, which what we're deal. Yeah. Yeah, which what we're trying to do. I mean, yeah. I opened trying to do. I mean, yeah. I opened trying to do. I mean, yeah. I opened this thing up saying there was no agenda this thing up saying there was no agenda this thing up saying there was no agenda and I don't I'm sure people might think and I don't I'm sure people might think and I don't I'm sure people might think that there is. that there is. that there is. » You're allowed to have an agenda. » You're allowed to have an agenda. » You're allowed to have an agenda. » to have an agenda, I guess, but yeah, I » to have an agenda, I guess, but yeah, I » to have an agenda, I guess, but yeah, I am pro it, but I do also understand and am pro it, but I do also understand and am pro it, but I do also understand and believe in what people are saying that believe in what people are saying that believe in what people are saying that they are real concerns and real things they are real concerns and real things they are real concerns and real things that have happened to people. I just that have happened to people. I just that have happened to people. I just think that there are regulations and think that there are regulations and think that there are regulations and things that are being put in place that things that are being put in place that things that are being put in place that will prevent those things from will prevent those things from will prevent those things from happening. Here. I love your focus happening. Here. I love your focus happening. Here. I love your focus point. I 100% believe you cuz I've seen point. I 100% believe you cuz I've seen point. I 100% believe you cuz I've seen you doing it for you doing it for you doing it for a couple weeks now of going so deep to a couple weeks now of going so deep to a couple weeks now of going so deep to try and find these skeletons that are try and find these skeletons that are try and find these skeletons that are not just edge cases that you can work not just edge cases that you can work not just edge cases that you can work backwards and so I appreciate all the backwards and so I appreciate all the backwards and so I appreciate all the work you put into that side. Thank you. work you put into that side. Thank you. work you put into that side. Thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. » it's going to benefit a lot of people » it's going to benefit a lot of people » it's going to benefit a lot of people having those resources and it'll having those resources and it'll having those resources and it'll probably keep getting updated and probably keep getting updated and probably keep getting updated and different information. So, I think just different information. So, I think just different information. So, I think just spreading uh spreading uh spreading uh hope of something that could be really hope of something that could be really hope of something that could be really good is not wrong if you believe in it. good is not wrong if you believe in it. good is not wrong if you believe in it. You should have your say and yeah, You should have your say and yeah, You should have your say and yeah, there's going to be plenty of people there's going to be plenty of people there's going to be plenty of people publicly saying no and there's hopefully publicly saying no and there's hopefully publicly saying no and there's hopefully we're going to see some people that uh we're going to see some people that uh we're going to see some people that uh have some I hope so. background, have some I hope so. background, have some I hope so. background, education, understanding. Like when I education, understanding. Like when I education, understanding. Like when I say education, I mean like some direct say education, I mean like some direct say education, I mean like some direct uh correspondence, right? People that I uh correspondence, right? People that I uh correspondence, right? People that I would encourage people to reach out and would encourage people to reach out and would encourage people to reach out and talk to people in that area, right? talk to people in that area, right? talk to people in that area, right? » Absolutely. Or even in Wichita. You » Absolutely. Or even in Wichita. You » Absolutely. Or even in Wichita. You know, there's people I guarantee you know, there's people I guarantee you know, there's people I guarantee you have far more experience than I have far more experience than I have far more experience than I have with data centers who are in Wichita with data centers who are in Wichita with data centers who are in Wichita right now to reach out to and talk to. right now to reach out to and talk to. right now to reach out to and talk to. But it it's wild. It's going to be But it it's wild. It's going to be But it it's wild. It's going to be interesting the next 10 years It will interesting the next 10 years It will interesting the next 10 years It will be. to see how many of these be. to see how many of these be. to see how many of these hyperscalers uh are thrown up hyperscalers uh are thrown up hyperscalers uh are thrown up and yeah, the economic benefit Yep. of and yeah, the economic benefit Yep. of and yeah, the economic benefit Yep. of the yeah, the race to the AI race the yeah, the race to the AI race the yeah, the race to the AI race globally Yeah. from a military globally Yeah. from a military globally Yeah. from a military standpoint. Um this is this is new standpoint. Um this is this is new standpoint. Um this is this is new infrastructure that's a part of our life infrastructure that's a part of our life infrastructure that's a part of our life now. It is. It's not going to go away. now. It is. It's not going to go away. now. It is. It's not going to go away. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. But I think we're just I agree. Yeah. But I think we're just I agree. Yeah. But I think we're just two citizens who are just trying to two citizens who are just trying to two citizens who are just trying to figure it out ourselves. I'm figure it out ourselves. I'm figure it out ourselves. I'm there's no way to avoid it. Once you go there's no way to avoid it. Once you go there's no way to avoid it. Once you go down this rabbit hole, every day I'm down this rabbit hole, every day I'm down this rabbit hole, every day I'm reading or looking at something. Yeah. reading or looking at something. Yeah. reading or looking at something. Yeah. And thinking of another like negative of And thinking of another like negative of And thinking of another like negative of like, oh, but what about this? like, oh, but what about this? like, oh, but what about this? I I do encourage people to find those I I do encourage people to find those I I do encourage people to find those territories and content and video about territories and content and video about territories and content and video about it it it from two different angles cuz you're from two different angles cuz you're from two different angles cuz you're always going to find something. Oh, always going to find something. Oh, always going to find something. Oh, yeah. Once you start going down one yeah. Once you start going down one yeah. Once you start going down one route, the algorithm just keeps feeding route, the algorithm just keeps feeding route, the algorithm just keeps feeding you that. The algorithm starts feeding you that. The algorithm starts feeding you that. The algorithm starts feeding Exactly. The algorithm feeds you the bad Exactly. The algorithm feeds you the bad Exactly. The algorithm feeds you the bad stuff. You got to look for other things. stuff. You got to look for other things. stuff. You got to look for other things. Yes. I have intentionally written or Yes. I have intentionally written or Yes. I have intentionally written or typed in on YouTube searches like bad typed in on YouTube searches like bad typed in on YouTube searches like bad data center experiences, bad You know, data center experiences, bad You know, data center experiences, bad You know, just to find some of the videos and just to find some of the videos and just to find some of the videos and listen to some things that are happening listen to some things that are happening listen to some things that are happening to people. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yep. to people. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yep. to people. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yep. Awesome. This is fun. Yep. Likewise. Awesome. This is fun. Yep. Likewise. Awesome. This is fun. Yep. Likewise. Good work. ---