From Shop Floor to Business Owner: The Craft and Grind of Custom Woodworking with Josh Cogan | Ep 44

What's up guys? Sam here with Killer What's up guys? Sam here with Killer Growth Podcast and today I have Josh Growth Podcast and today I have Josh Growth Podcast and today I have Josh Kogan, owner of Kogan's Wood Shop. Kogan, owner of Kogan's Wood Shop. Kogan, owner of Kogan's Wood Shop. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. » Thanks. Thanks for having me. » Thanks. Thanks for having me. » Thanks. Thanks for having me. » Yeah, of course. I like your hat. » Yeah, of course. I like your hat. » Yeah, of course. I like your hat. » Oh, yeah. Thanks. » Oh, yeah. Thanks. » Oh, yeah. Thanks. » It's a good hat. Yeah. » It's a good hat. Yeah. » It's a good hat. Yeah. » What went into your outfit today? » What went into your outfit today? » What went into your outfit today? What was your thought process? What was your thought process? What was your thought process? » You know, it was dark in the morning and » You know, it was dark in the morning and » You know, it was dark in the morning and I just had to get dressed for work. I I just had to get dressed for work. I I just had to get dressed for work. I got to go back to work after this. So, got to go back to work after this. So, got to go back to work after this. So, there was no thought process into my there was no thought process into my there was no thought process into my outfit. outfit. outfit. » It was just have an outfit. » It was just have an outfit. » It was just have an outfit. » Yeah, this is this is what I do. » Yeah, this is this is what I do. » Yeah, this is this is what I do. » You look great. All right. Hey, well, » You look great. All right. Hey, well, » You look great. All right. Hey, well, you've listened to some episodes. you've listened to some episodes. you've listened to some episodes. » Y » Y » Y » and you were really excited. You just » and you were really excited. You just » and you were really excited. You just kept bothering me like every week like, kept bothering me like every week like, kept bothering me like every week like, "Sam, I want to come on the podcast and "Sam, I want to come on the podcast and "Sam, I want to come on the podcast and talk in front of people." talk in front of people." talk in front of people." » Kind of like building a website. » Kind of like building a website. » Kind of like building a website. » Yeah. Like kind of like building a » Yeah. Like kind of like building a » Yeah. Like kind of like building a website. It's just like, yeah, I really, website. It's just like, yeah, I really, website. It's just like, yeah, I really, you know, you know, you know, » that's what I need to do. » that's what I need to do. » that's what I need to do. » Yep. » Yep. » Yep. » Uh let's just start with Josh's story, » Uh let's just start with Josh's story, » Uh let's just start with Josh's story, which I'm sure I'll hear some details I which I'm sure I'll hear some details I which I'm sure I'll hear some details I don't know, but Josh leaves high school don't know, but Josh leaves high school don't know, but Josh leaves high school and then how did he end up here? and then how did he end up here? and then how did he end up here? So, uh, my mom wanted me to go to So, uh, my mom wanted me to go to So, uh, my mom wanted me to go to college. I didn't really want to. I college. I didn't really want to. I college. I didn't really want to. I didn't really like school. Um, but I didn't really like school. Um, but I didn't really like school. Um, but I did. So, I went to Johnson County did. So, I went to Johnson County did. So, I went to Johnson County Community College. Lived in Kansas City Community College. Lived in Kansas City Community College. Lived in Kansas City for a year. Then we for a year. Then we for a year. Then we » moved to Lawrence. Um, and then » moved to Lawrence. Um, and then » moved to Lawrence. Um, and then » did that. It took me four years to » did that. It took me four years to » did that. It took me four years to complete a two-year degree. It was a complete a two-year degree. It was a complete a two-year degree. It was a little tough, you know, living with your little tough, you know, living with your little tough, you know, living with your buddies. You work all day and come home buddies. You work all day and come home buddies. You work all day and come home and it's hard to go to school, but and it's hard to go to school, but and it's hard to go to school, but we got it done. Uh during that time we got it done. Uh during that time we got it done. Uh during that time though, I worked at a cabinet shop in though, I worked at a cabinet shop in though, I worked at a cabinet shop in Baldwin City. Baldwin City. Baldwin City. » Um so I'd work all day and then go to » Um so I'd work all day and then go to » Um so I'd work all day and then go to school at night. Um school at night. Um school at night. Um » I didn't know that. » I didn't know that. » I didn't know that. » Yeah, it was interesting. Uh when I » Yeah, it was interesting. Uh when I » Yeah, it was interesting. Uh when I started » Where's Baldwin City? » Where's Baldwin City? » Where's Baldwin City? » I don't know 15 miles from Lawrence. » I don't know 15 miles from Lawrence. » I don't know 15 miles from Lawrence. Okay. Like south a little bit southeast. Okay. Like south a little bit southeast. Okay. Like south a little bit southeast. Um, so yeah, when I started there, there Um, so yeah, when I started there, there Um, so yeah, when I started there, there was like five guys and by the time I was like five guys and by the time I was like five guys and by the time I left, it was just down to me cuz it was left, it was just down to me cuz it was left, it was just down to me cuz it was like during 2008, 9, 10, whatever when like during 2008, 9, 10, whatever when like during 2008, 9, 10, whatever when custom cabinet business wasn't great, custom cabinet business wasn't great, custom cabinet business wasn't great, right? right? right? » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » The economy was tough. » The economy was tough. » The economy was tough. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um, but that was good. You know, I » Um, but that was good. You know, I » Um, but that was good. You know, I learned a lot uh from him and then we learned a lot uh from him and then we learned a lot uh from him and then we had our first kid in 2012 and thought it had our first kid in 2012 and thought it had our first kid in 2012 and thought it was probably best to get back closer to was probably best to get back closer to was probably best to get back closer to home, closer to family, get some home, closer to family, get some home, closer to family, get some support. So we moved back here. Uh I got support. So we moved back here. Uh I got support. So we moved back here. Uh I got a job in Witchah working for a hydraulic a job in Witchah working for a hydraulic a job in Witchah working for a hydraulic company. Did that for a while. Uh six or company. Did that for a while. Uh six or company. Did that for a while. Uh six or seven years. It was okay. seven years. It was okay. seven years. It was okay. » What'd you do there? » What'd you do there? » What'd you do there? » A lot. » A lot. » A lot. » A lot. » A lot. » A lot. » So started out just customer service and » So started out just customer service and » So started out just customer service and then uh we opened up a branch in H. And then uh we opened up a branch in H. And then uh we opened up a branch in H. And so I ran that. It was a manufacturing so I ran that. It was a manufacturing so I ran that. It was a manufacturing facility. facility. facility. » Oh. » Oh. » Oh. » Um we made hydraulic parts for » Um we made hydraulic parts for » Um we made hydraulic parts for lawnmowers. lawnmowers. lawnmowers. So it was interesting. It was fine. So it was interesting. It was fine. So it was interesting. It was fine. » Did you guys sell what's the big lawn » Did you guys sell what's the big lawn » Did you guys sell what's the big lawn mower manufacturer in H? mower manufacturer in H? mower manufacturer in H? » Yeah. Excel industry. » Yeah. Excel industry. » Yeah. Excel industry. » Were they like a big » Were they like a big » Were they like a big » They were the biggest one. Yeah. » They were the biggest one. Yeah. » They were the biggest one. Yeah. » The only one we were there for. » The only one we were there for. » The only one we were there for. » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » That's why we were there. » That's why we were there. » That's why we were there. » You literally set up for them. That's » You literally set up for them. That's » You literally set up for them. That's » Yeah. I mean, we would build 12,400 » Yeah. I mean, we would build 12,400 » Yeah. I mean, we would build 12,400 parts a day. You know, there's like 29 parts a day. You know, there's like 29 parts a day. You know, there's like 29 people. people. people. » Yeah. Hustler. Not Hustler. What's the » Yeah. Hustler. Not Hustler. What's the » Yeah. Hustler. Not Hustler. What's the brand they make? brand they make? brand they make? » Hustler. » Hustler. » Hustler. » Hustler is Okay. It is Hustler. » Hustler is Okay. It is Hustler. » Hustler is Okay. It is Hustler. » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then, you » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then, you » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, we kind of knew that contract was know, we kind of knew that contract was know, we kind of knew that contract was going to close out and so we moved back going to close out and so we moved back going to close out and so we moved back to, uh, shut that down, moved back to to, uh, shut that down, moved back to to, uh, shut that down, moved back to Witchaw. Um, then I was in outside sales Witchaw. Um, then I was in outside sales Witchaw. Um, then I was in outside sales and then one day Philillip calls me. and then one day Philillip calls me. and then one day Philillip calls me. » It's a common thread in all these » It's a common thread in all these » It's a common thread in all these podcasts. podcasts. podcasts. » It's in a lot of stories. So, he calls » It's in a lot of stories. So, he calls » It's in a lot of stories. So, he calls me and he says, "Hey, I got a deal for me and he says, "Hey, I got a deal for me and he says, "Hey, I got a deal for you." I'm like, "What kind of deal? I you." I'm like, "What kind of deal? I you." I'm like, "What kind of deal? I don't I don't need a deal. I'm good." don't I don't need a deal. I'm good." don't I don't need a deal. I'm good." He's like, "No, uh, you know, the He's like, "No, uh, you know, the He's like, "No, uh, you know, the cabinet shop in town is selling and I cabinet shop in town is selling and I cabinet shop in town is selling and I think you should buy it." think you should buy it." think you should buy it." » And you did you know this guy at the » And you did you know this guy at the » And you did you know this guy at the cabinet shop? cabinet shop? cabinet shop? » So, I guess I should back up a little » So, I guess I should back up a little » So, I guess I should back up a little bit. Uh, all through high school, I bit. Uh, all through high school, I bit. Uh, all through high school, I worked here at this at this cabinet worked here at this at this cabinet worked here at this at this cabinet shop. Started when I was 14. shop. Started when I was 14. shop. Started when I was 14. » That's good information. » That's good information. » That's good information. » Yeah. You know, » Yeah. You know, » Yeah. You know, » good context. » good context. » good context. » Uh, cuz » Uh, cuz » Uh, cuz » I decided to quit playing sports. Not » I decided to quit playing sports. Not » I decided to quit playing sports. Not all, you know, but I didn't play all, you know, but I didn't play all, you know, but I didn't play football and basketball anymore. So, my football and basketball anymore. So, my football and basketball anymore. So, my parents were like, "Well, if you're not parents were like, "Well, if you're not parents were like, "Well, if you're not going to do that, you need to get a job. going to do that, you need to get a job. going to do that, you need to get a job. So I did, right? Uh went down to the So I did, right? Uh went down to the So I did, right? Uh went down to the cabinet shop, started sweeping floors, cabinet shop, started sweeping floors, cabinet shop, started sweeping floors, things like that. So I worked there all things like that. So I worked there all things like that. So I worked there all through high school. through high school. through high school. » Cool. » Cool. » Cool. » Um and I guess that makes sense why I » Um and I guess that makes sense why I » Um and I guess that makes sense why I was working at the cabinet shop in was working at the cabinet shop in was working at the cabinet shop in college. college. college. » That's what I was like, that would have » That's what I was like, that would have » That's what I was like, that would have been a good question for me to ask. Like been a good question for me to ask. Like been a good question for me to ask. Like how did you know how to do that? Right. how did you know how to do that? Right. how did you know how to do that? Right. » You just woke up one day, had an » You just woke up one day, had an » You just woke up one day, had an epiphany. epiphany. epiphany. » Yeah. No, so Philip calls and we » Yeah. No, so Philip calls and we » Yeah. No, so Philip calls and we talk about a little bit and I'm like, I talk about a little bit and I'm like, I talk about a little bit and I'm like, I don't know. Let me think about this. I don't know. Let me think about this. I don't know. Let me think about this. I called Jordan, my wife, and called Jordan, my wife, and called Jordan, my wife, and » I'm like, hey, you know, Philip called » I'm like, hey, you know, Philip called » I'm like, hey, you know, Philip called me. This is what's going on. And at me. This is what's going on. And at me. This is what's going on. And at first she was like, "I don't know. I first she was like, "I don't know. I first she was like, "I don't know. I don't know." And then we talked about a don't know." And then we talked about a don't know." And then we talked about a little bit more and I'm like, "You know little bit more and I'm like, "You know little bit more and I'm like, "You know what? For the money, we can't really get what? For the money, we can't really get what? For the money, we can't really get hurt if we use it as a business or we hurt if we use it as a business or we hurt if we use it as a business or we use it as a hobby shop." use it as a hobby shop." use it as a hobby shop." » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um, so he called me in the morning and » Um, so he called me in the morning and » Um, so he called me in the morning and we had an offer in the building by 4:00 we had an offer in the building by 4:00 we had an offer in the building by 4:00 that afternoon. that afternoon. that afternoon. » That same day. » That same day. » That same day. » The same day. Yeah. That's awesome. » The same day. Yeah. That's awesome. » The same day. Yeah. That's awesome. » Yeah. Well, you know, we knew we had to » Yeah. Well, you know, we knew we had to » Yeah. Well, you know, we knew we had to move, right? Right. move, right? Right. move, right? Right. » Uh, and we had to move quick. Yeah. » Uh, and we had to move quick. Yeah. » Uh, and we had to move quick. Yeah. » Because I knew it wasn't going to last » Because I knew it wasn't going to last » Because I knew it wasn't going to last long » because the guy owned the real estate, » because the guy owned the real estate, » because the guy owned the real estate, too. too. too. » Yeah. the wood shop, » Yeah. the wood shop, » Yeah. the wood shop, » the real estate and all the » the real estate and all the » the real estate and all the equipment in the building. equipment in the building. equipment in the building. » I mean, so it was a turnkey shop. » I mean, so it was a turnkey shop. » I mean, so it was a turnkey shop. » That's great. » That's great. » That's great. » Doesn't work out. Somebody else wants to » Doesn't work out. Somebody else wants to » Doesn't work out. Somebody else wants to lease it as a hobby shop or wood shop. lease it as a hobby shop or wood shop. lease it as a hobby shop or wood shop. » Yeah. So, we bought it um I tried to do » Yeah. So, we bought it um I tried to do » Yeah. So, we bought it um I tried to do both for a while. both for a while. both for a while. » Oh. How long did you do that? Uh, so we » Oh. How long did you do that? Uh, so we » Oh. How long did you do that? Uh, so we bought it in the summer of 2019 and I bought it in the summer of 2019 and I bought it in the summer of 2019 and I think I officially left the hydraulic think I officially left the hydraulic think I officially left the hydraulic shop in 21. shop in 21. shop in 21. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » So, how did co That is kind of crazy » So, how did co That is kind of crazy » So, how did co That is kind of crazy timing on cuz you bought it like right timing on cuz you bought it like right timing on cuz you bought it like right before CO was before CO was before CO was » Yes. » Yes. » Yes. » Crazy. » Crazy. » Crazy. » Yes. Right. Right. » Yes. Right. Right. » Yes. Right. Right. » Like not much before then. » Like not much before then. » Like not much before then. » No. » No. » No. » Like months. » Like months. » Like months. » Right. Right. Yeah. Cuz we bought it in » Right. Right. Yeah. Cuz we bought it in » Right. Right. Yeah. Cuz we bought it in July, I think. Right. Yeah, co was in July, I think. Right. Yeah, co was in July, I think. Right. Yeah, co was in August or late that year. August or late that year. August or late that year. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um » Um » Um » yeah, co was good to us. » yeah, co was good to us. » yeah, co was good to us. » It was » It was » It was it was good business. Um everybody's it was good business. Um everybody's it was good business. Um everybody's sitting at home thinking around what sitting at home thinking around what sitting at home thinking around what can we do what can we do what can we do » make stuff better » make stuff better » make stuff better » to make stuff better, you know? Uh so we » to make stuff better, you know? Uh so we » to make stuff better, you know? Uh so we got really busy and I think that's what got really busy and I think that's what got really busy and I think that's what drove me to quit the hydraulic shop. I drove me to quit the hydraulic shop. I drove me to quit the hydraulic shop. I mean cuz it was work all day, work all mean cuz it was work all day, work all mean cuz it was work all day, work all night. night. night. I mean, I even had a cot in my office I mean, I even had a cot in my office I mean, I even had a cot in my office for a couple years. I would just sleep for a couple years. I would just sleep for a couple years. I would just sleep there. there. there. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » You know, just work, work, work. And » You know, just work, work, work. And » You know, just work, work, work. And finally Jordan's like, "All right, you finally Jordan's like, "All right, you finally Jordan's like, "All right, you got to pick one or the other. You can't got to pick one or the other. You can't got to pick one or the other. You can't do both anymore." Um, yeah. So, we just do both anymore." Um, yeah. So, we just do both anymore." Um, yeah. So, we just dove in and did it. And it's been good dove in and did it. And it's been good dove in and did it. And it's been good ever since. ever since. ever since. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um, » Um, » Um, » did you have a employee after you quit » did you have a employee after you quit » did you have a employee after you quit your job or how long till you brought your job or how long till you brought your job or how long till you brought someone on? How long was it just you? someone on? How long was it just you? someone on? How long was it just you? » Uh, for a long time. Um, I don't » Uh, for a long time. Um, I don't » Uh, for a long time. Um, I don't remember exactly. I got some part-time remember exactly. I got some part-time remember exactly. I got some part-time help maybe help maybe help maybe not till like 23. not till like 23. not till like 23. » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » Um » Um » Um » Oh, wow. » Oh, wow. » Oh, wow. » Yeah. So, I did it by myself for a long » Yeah. So, I did it by myself for a long » Yeah. So, I did it by myself for a long time. Um and I have one employee now, time. Um and I have one employee now, time. Um and I have one employee now, one full-time. one full-time. one full-time. » Um so, yeah. » Um so, yeah. » Um so, yeah. » Well, do you ever have to just like get » Well, do you ever have to just like get » Well, do you ever have to just like get random help on like bigger installs or I random help on like bigger installs or I random help on like bigger installs or I guess it's probably just two guys can guess it's probably just two guys can guess it's probably just two guys can pretty much do. Yeah, you know, we pretty much do. Yeah, you know, we pretty much do. Yeah, you know, we generally try to build things in a way generally try to build things in a way generally try to build things in a way that I know the two of us can carry and that I know the two of us can carry and that I know the two of us can carry and manage. manage. manage. » That makes sense. » That makes sense. » That makes sense. » Um, so yeah, I mean, as far as » Um, so yeah, I mean, as far as » Um, so yeah, I mean, as far as installation know, one employee is fine. installation know, one employee is fine. installation know, one employee is fine. Now, I mean, we're busy enough to where Now, I mean, we're busy enough to where Now, I mean, we're busy enough to where we need to get serious about finding we need to get serious about finding we need to get serious about finding another one another one another one » to try and keep up with demand. » to try and keep up with demand. » to try and keep up with demand. » Yeah. So, talk about that with custom » Yeah. So, talk about that with custom » Yeah. So, talk about that with custom cabinetry cuz that's cabinetry cuz that's cabinetry cuz that's » there's a couple people I know in town » there's a couple people I know in town » there's a couple people I know in town that did it. Um, I don't know if they that did it. Um, I don't know if they that did it. Um, I don't know if they still do it like before you got in the still do it like before you got in the still do it like before you got in the business. We had uh oh Hrix or Yeah, I business. We had uh oh Hrix or Yeah, I business. We had uh oh Hrix or Yeah, I think they did the one Ron did the stuff think they did the one Ron did the stuff think they did the one Ron did the stuff at our house and at our house and at our house and » uh but it wasn't like an easy thing to » uh but it wasn't like an easy thing to » uh but it wasn't like an easy thing to find. find. find. » Yeah, there's not many of us. » Yeah, there's not many of us. » Yeah, there's not many of us. » Like how many are in just Butler County » Like how many are in just Butler County » Like how many are in just Butler County that actually do what you do? Like that actually do what you do? Like that actually do what you do? Like complete custom. complete custom. complete custom. » Ron and I. » Ron and I. » Ron and I. » You and Ron, that's all I know of. » You and Ron, that's all I know of. » You and Ron, that's all I know of. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um which is fine. You know, I'm glad » Um which is fine. You know, I'm glad » Um which is fine. You know, I'm glad Ron's here. Kind of takes a little bit Ron's here. Kind of takes a little bit Ron's here. Kind of takes a little bit of weight off my shoulder. And uh you of weight off my shoulder. And uh you of weight off my shoulder. And uh you know, Ron's good, too. I can call him know, Ron's good, too. I can call him know, Ron's good, too. I can call him and anytime and he'll answer my and anytime and he'll answer my and anytime and he'll answer my questions. We get along great. Um, so questions. We get along great. Um, so questions. We get along great. Um, so yeah. No, I think it's just Ron and I. yeah. No, I think it's just Ron and I. yeah. No, I think it's just Ron and I. And honestly, I don't know a lot of full And honestly, I don't know a lot of full And honestly, I don't know a lot of full custom shops in Witchaw either. custom shops in Witchaw either. custom shops in Witchaw either. » I'm sure there's some there, but I don't » I'm sure there's some there, but I don't » I'm sure there's some there, but I don't know of a ton of them. know of a ton of them. know of a ton of them. » Yeah. I did the So, what was the » Yeah. I did the So, what was the » Yeah. I did the So, what was the gentleman's name you bought out? gentleman's name you bought out? gentleman's name you bought out? » His name was Larry Bergen. » His name was Larry Bergen. » His name was Larry Bergen. » Larry Bergen. That's right. Bergen. » Larry Bergen. That's right. Bergen. » Larry Bergen. That's right. Bergen. » Yeah. So, » Yeah. So, » Yeah. So, his dad started it and he started there his dad started it and he started there his dad started it and he started there in like 1989. It's been a cabinet shop in like 1989. It's been a cabinet shop in like 1989. It's been a cabinet shop since ' 89. since ' 89. since ' 89. » Oh, wow. » Oh, wow. » Oh, wow. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And his dad start So, he was second » And his dad start So, he was second » And his dad start So, he was second generation. generation. generation. » Mhm. » Mhm. » Mhm. » Okay. Mhm. » Okay. Mhm. » Okay. Mhm. » 89. Gez. » 89. Gez. » 89. Gez. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » I wonder how much it's changed since he » I wonder how much it's changed since he » I wonder how much it's changed since he was doing it to now. Like what's the was doing it to now. Like what's the was doing it to now. Like what's the » I think it's changed a lot. You know, I » I think it's changed a lot. You know, I » I think it's changed a lot. You know, I think in those days they would set up think in those days they would set up think in those days they would set up shop in somebody's garage and build shop in somebody's garage and build shop in somebody's garage and build everything on site. everything on site. everything on site. » Oh, » Oh, » Oh, » right. And now we're more to a modular » right. And now we're more to a modular » right. And now we're more to a modular type thing. You know, build a box and type thing. You know, build a box and type thing. You know, build a box and hang it hang it hang it » like build the full Okay, that's » like build the full Okay, that's » like build the full Okay, that's interesting. interesting. interesting. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » How do How would you build it on site if » How do How would you build it on site if » How do How would you build it on site if it was custom? Like you have a lot of it was custom? Like you have a lot of it was custom? Like you have a lot of equipment. equipment. equipment. » Yeah, I know. I don't know how they did » Yeah, I know. I don't know how they did » Yeah, I know. I don't know how they did it. I can't imagine doing it. Sounds it. I can't imagine doing it. Sounds it. I can't imagine doing it. Sounds miserable. miserable. miserable. » Yeah. That's the part that blows Haley » Yeah. That's the part that blows Haley » Yeah. That's the part that blows Haley and I's mind. You just did some stuff and I's mind. You just did some stuff and I's mind. You just did some stuff for my mother-in-law. for my mother-in-law. for my mother-in-law. » Mhm. » Mhm. » Mhm. » And » And » And just seeing you take a piece of wood just seeing you take a piece of wood just seeing you take a piece of wood into something that's like molding or into something that's like molding or into something that's like molding or what's that thing called? Uh the what's that thing called? Uh the what's that thing called? Uh the like the corner pieces of the island like the corner pieces of the island like the corner pieces of the island that look like legs. that look like legs. that look like legs. » Yeah. I don't know » Yeah. I don't know » Yeah. I don't know » what even call that » what even call that » what even call that » particular name for that. But yeah, it's » particular name for that. But yeah, it's » particular name for that. But yeah, it's a a molding. Um a a molding. Um a a molding. Um » it's big molding. » it's big molding. » it's big molding. » Yeah. you know, and I think that's » Yeah. you know, and I think that's » Yeah. you know, and I think that's probably the rewarding part of what I do probably the rewarding part of what I do probably the rewarding part of what I do is being able to turn a pile of lumber is being able to turn a pile of lumber is being able to turn a pile of lumber or stack of plywood into or stack of plywood into or stack of plywood into » something functional and looks good. » something functional and looks good. » something functional and looks good. » And on that, you know, on that note, » And on that, you know, on that note, » And on that, you know, on that note, that project was fun cuz like I that project was fun cuz like I that project was fun cuz like I said, I worked there in high school. And said, I worked there in high school. And said, I worked there in high school. And so now I'm starting to get to go back so now I'm starting to get to go back so now I'm starting to get to go back and work on jobs I did when I was and work on jobs I did when I was and work on jobs I did when I was younger. Right. younger. Right. younger. Right. » So you've worked on that kitchen, those » So you've worked on that kitchen, those » So you've worked on that kitchen, those cabinets when you're in high school and cabinets when you're in high school and cabinets when you're in high school and then come back and then come back and then come back and » now we get to do it again. Uh and we've » now we get to do it again. Uh and we've » now we get to do it again. Uh and we've done that a lot actually. Um, done that a lot actually. Um, done that a lot actually. Um, for some reason people remember me from for some reason people remember me from for some reason people remember me from when I was in like high school working when I was in like high school working when I was in like high school working for him. Yeah. for him. Yeah. for him. Yeah. » And they're like, "Hey, I remember you. » And they're like, "Hey, I remember you. » And they're like, "Hey, I remember you. Will you come back and work on my house Will you come back and work on my house Will you come back and work on my house again?" Yeah. Right. So, uh, yeah, it's again?" Yeah. Right. So, uh, yeah, it's again?" Yeah. Right. So, uh, yeah, it's been good. It's fun. been good. It's fun. been good. It's fun. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Uh, so take me through the process. » Uh, so take me through the process. » Uh, so take me through the process. » The You buy Are you buying planks? So, » The You buy Are you buying planks? So, » The You buy Are you buying planks? So, let's just go let's talk custom and then let's just go let's talk custom and then let's just go let's talk custom and then we'll go into all the other stuff. But we'll go into all the other stuff. But we'll go into all the other stuff. But » I've seen these big planks of wood. So, » I've seen these big planks of wood. So, » I've seen these big planks of wood. So, you just get planks of wood. Where does you just get planks of wood. Where does you just get planks of wood. Where does that come from? that come from? that come from? » Yeah. So I get uh most all my material » Yeah. So I get uh most all my material » Yeah. So I get uh most all my material from a distributor out of Kansas City from a distributor out of Kansas City from a distributor out of Kansas City area, Liberty, Missouri. Um yeah, so we area, Liberty, Missouri. Um yeah, so we area, Liberty, Missouri. Um yeah, so we order, you know, 200 board feet of order, you know, 200 board feet of order, you know, 200 board feet of lumber and it'll come in random widths, lumber and it'll come in random widths, lumber and it'll come in random widths, random lengths. Um but we buy it a random lengths. Um but we buy it a random lengths. Um but we buy it a certain thickness just to minimize certain thickness just to minimize certain thickness just to minimize machine time. Um so we buy the lumber in machine time. Um so we buy the lumber in machine time. Um so we buy the lumber in that way and then we buy 4x8 sheets of that way and then we buy 4x8 sheets of that way and then we buy 4x8 sheets of plywood. plywood. plywood. » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » Um different thicknesses for different » Um different thicknesses for different » Um different thicknesses for different parts of the cabinet. Um, and then yeah, parts of the cabinet. Um, and then yeah, parts of the cabinet. Um, and then yeah, create a cut list off the renderings and create a cut list off the renderings and create a cut list off the renderings and go to town. go to town. go to town. » Go to so easy. » Go to so easy. » Go to so easy. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » There's like 20 questions in between » There's like 20 questions in between » There's like 20 questions in between there. Sure. there. Sure. there. Sure. » For me, uh, so they come in all widths » For me, uh, so they come in all widths » For me, uh, so they come in all widths because this is like real. I mean, this because this is like real. I mean, this because this is like real. I mean, this is right off wood comes from trees, is right off wood comes from trees, is right off wood comes from trees, right? right? right? » It does. » It does. » It does. » Is that where wood comes from? » Is that where wood comes from? » Is that where wood comes from? » Yes. » Yes. » Yes. » So, I mean, like, if you start slicing a » So, I mean, like, if you start slicing a » So, I mean, like, if you start slicing a tree up, like there's going to be tree up, like there's going to be tree up, like there's going to be different widths and Right. Because different widths and Right. Because different widths and Right. Because you're starting at the you're starting at the you're starting at the » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » I mean, it's a circle, guys. So you can » I mean, it's a circle, guys. So you can » I mean, it's a circle, guys. So you can uh pay more money to get the material uh pay more money to get the material uh pay more money to get the material come in at certain widths that you want. come in at certain widths that you want. come in at certain widths that you want. Um Um Um » and I guess there's a little bit of » and I guess there's a little bit of » and I guess there's a little bit of benefit that if uh you're building benefit that if uh you're building benefit that if uh you're building a certain type of cabinet like a face a certain type of cabinet like a face a certain type of cabinet like a face frame cabinet and you know frame cabinet and you know frame cabinet and you know » you know you need 300 ft of 2 in » you know you need 300 ft of 2 in » you know you need 300 ft of 2 in material or inch and a half material, material or inch and a half material, material or inch and a half material, you can buy it that way. Um to me it you can buy it that way. Um to me it you can buy it that way. Um to me it doesn't seem to work out great. Material doesn't seem to work out great. Material doesn't seem to work out great. Material doesn't yield all that well. doesn't yield all that well. doesn't yield all that well. » Um » Um » Um » what do you mean by that? » what do you mean by that? » what do you mean by that? So, you know, if I'm ripping up a bunch So, you know, if I'm ripping up a bunch So, you know, if I'm ripping up a bunch of material for door stocks, you know, of material for door stocks, you know, of material for door stocks, you know, I'll cut a two and 5/8 and if it's I'll cut a two and 5/8 and if it's I'll cut a two and 5/8 and if it's random widths and I get a four and a random widths and I get a four and a random widths and I get a four and a half inch board or something like that, half inch board or something like that, half inch board or something like that, then I can use that drop to make an inch then I can use that drop to make an inch then I can use that drop to make an inch and a half piece for a different part of and a half piece for a different part of and a half piece for a different part of the cabinet, you know. Gotcha. the cabinet, you know. Gotcha. the cabinet, you know. Gotcha. » Whereas, if I bought it all at a certain » Whereas, if I bought it all at a certain » Whereas, if I bought it all at a certain width, that's what it's used for and width, that's what it's used for and width, that's what it's used for and that's it. that's it. that's it. » This is uh full circle. Had a guy that » This is uh full circle. Had a guy that » This is uh full circle. Had a guy that talked about meat for a long time from talked about meat for a long time from talked about meat for a long time from WA Valley Packing and you know that's WA Valley Packing and you know that's WA Valley Packing and you know that's what burger is. You know, at the end of what burger is. You know, at the end of what burger is. You know, at the end of the day that's our hot dogs. the day that's our hot dogs. the day that's our hot dogs. » Yep. Yeah, repurposing. Um, sorry to » Yep. Yeah, repurposing. Um, sorry to » Yep. Yeah, repurposing. Um, sorry to compare you to, you know, compare you to, you know, compare you to, you know, » that's fine. » that's fine. » that's fine. » A hot dog. » A hot dog. » A hot dog. » Yeah, it's fine. » Yeah, it's fine. » Yeah, it's fine. » Probably a first. » Probably a first. » Probably a first. » It's probably a first. Um, so on the » It's probably a first. Um, so on the » It's probably a first. Um, so on the conversation of hot dogs, Haley had one conversation of hot dogs, Haley had one conversation of hot dogs, Haley had one question she wanted me to ask, which question she wanted me to ask, which question she wanted me to ask, which was, "What was your favorite type of was, "What was your favorite type of was, "What was your favorite type of wood?" wood?" wood?" » And then she went on and it was not » And then she went on and it was not » And then she went on and it was not appropriate for this podcast. appropriate for this podcast. appropriate for this podcast. » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » The rest of her questions, you can » The rest of her questions, you can » The rest of her questions, you can imagine, imagine, imagine, » sure, » sure, » sure, » the direction she went. Um, but » the direction she went. Um, but » the direction she went. Um, but » that's an interesting question. What's » that's an interesting question. What's » that's an interesting question. What's my favorite kind of wood? Um, my favorite kind of wood? Um, my favorite kind of wood? Um, » man, there's a lot of them I like for » man, there's a lot of them I like for » man, there's a lot of them I like for different reasons different reasons different reasons » and I like certain types of wood in » and I like certain types of wood in » and I like certain types of wood in different applications. different applications. different applications. » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » Um, I don't » Um, I don't » Um, I don't » What do you like working with? Like » What do you like working with? Like » What do you like working with? Like let's break it down by like what do you let's break it down by like what do you let's break it down by like what do you like working with versus like looks? like working with versus like looks? like working with versus like looks? » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » Is there any difference there? » Is there any difference there? » Is there any difference there? » Yeah. Um, » Yeah. Um, » Yeah. Um, so hickory for example. Um, so hickory for example. Um, so hickory for example. Um, » smells great. » smells great. » smells great. » Yeah. finish is beautiful. Uh, looks » Yeah. finish is beautiful. Uh, looks » Yeah. finish is beautiful. Uh, looks great. Very hard, very dense. So, great. Very hard, very dense. So, great. Very hard, very dense. So, therefore, I don't like working with it. therefore, I don't like working with it. therefore, I don't like working with it. » It's hard on the machines. You have to » It's hard on the machines. You have to » It's hard on the machines. You have to resharpen all your blades after every resharpen all your blades after every resharpen all your blades after every time you use it. time you use it. time you use it. » It likes to chip out. So, it's tough to » It likes to chip out. So, it's tough to » It likes to chip out. So, it's tough to work with. Um, work with. Um, work with. Um, you know, like a maple for example, I you know, like a maple for example, I you know, like a maple for example, I think it's wonderful if it's clear, but think it's wonderful if it's clear, but think it's wonderful if it's clear, but you can't stain it. Like, it's just so you can't stain it. Like, it's just so you can't stain it. Like, it's just so it's so hard to get a consistent color it's so hard to get a consistent color it's so hard to get a consistent color in maple. Um, in maple. Um, in maple. Um, » why is it hard for it to take a » why is it hard for it to take a » why is it hard for it to take a consistent? consistent? consistent? » Because the grain is so tight. » Because the grain is so tight. » Because the grain is so tight. » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » And it just turns out blotchy. » And it just turns out blotchy. » And it just turns out blotchy. » Gotcha. » Gotcha. » Gotcha. » Looks bad. » Looks bad. » Looks bad. » So, I don't like it. » So, I don't like it. » So, I don't like it. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um, I've been in the cherry a lot » Um, I've been in the cherry a lot » Um, I've been in the cherry a lot lately. lately. lately. » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » I like it. It's coming back. You know, » I like it. It's coming back. You know, » I like it. It's coming back. You know, it was popular in the '9s and kind of it was popular in the '9s and kind of it was popular in the '9s and kind of fell apart. fell apart. fell apart. » Is that Give me an example of a kitchen » Is that Give me an example of a kitchen » Is that Give me an example of a kitchen with cherry. with cherry. with cherry. » Um, » Um, » Um, » I'm trying to think of one that you » I'm trying to think of one that you » I'm trying to think of one that you would know. would know. would know. » One that I would know. What? What? » One that I would know. What? What? » One that I would know. What? What? » Have you seen my bathroom cabinets? » Have you seen my bathroom cabinets? » Have you seen my bathroom cabinets? » Those are cherry. » Those are cherry. » Those are cherry. » Those are cherry. Okay. Yeah. » Those are cherry. Okay. Yeah. » Those are cherry. Okay. Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that » Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that » Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that would be a comeback thing. That's not would be a comeback thing. That's not would be a comeback thing. That's not like a color you see going into modern like a color you see going into modern like a color you see going into modern » homes, right? » homes, right? » homes, right? » Um which I think is cool when people » Um which I think is cool when people » Um which I think is cool when people bring in bring in bring in » old colors, but then the accents could » old colors, but then the accents could » old colors, but then the accents could be like modern, which seems like really be like modern, which seems like really be like modern, which seems like really hard to do. hard to do. hard to do. » Yeah, it's challenging. » Yeah, it's challenging. » Yeah, it's challenging. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um » Um » Um » what's in Janet's house? My » what's in Janet's house? My » what's in Janet's house? My mother-in-law's hickory. mother-in-law's hickory. mother-in-law's hickory. » That's hickory. Okay. » That's hickory. Okay. » That's hickory. Okay. » It's a combination of hickory and » It's a combination of hickory and » It's a combination of hickory and red oak. red oak. red oak. » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » Yeah. Oh, red oak. Yeah. Do you like red » Yeah. Oh, red oak. Yeah. Do you like red » Yeah. Oh, red oak. Yeah. Do you like red oak? oak? oak? » No. » No. » No. » Okay, why not? » Okay, why not? » Okay, why not? » That seems pretty » That seems pretty » That seems pretty » I've seen so much of it and that's what » I've seen so much of it and that's what » I've seen so much of it and that's what we tear out the most. You know that we tear out the most. You know that we tear out the most. You know that golden oak that everybody has in their golden oak that everybody has in their golden oak that everybody has in their kitchen from 1998 or 2002 that's kitchen from 1998 or 2002 that's kitchen from 1998 or 2002 that's » golden look is red oak. » golden look is red oak. » golden look is red oak. » Yes. » Yes. » Yes. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. I mean, you can really change the » Yeah. I mean, you can really change the » Yeah. I mean, you can really change the look of a wood by a stain. look of a wood by a stain. look of a wood by a stain. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » It's you » It's you » It's you » with the exception of of walnut, you » with the exception of of walnut, you » with the exception of of walnut, you know, you can change about the look of know, you can change about the look of know, you can change about the look of any wood any wood any wood that you want. What what's the if you're that you want. What what's the if you're that you want. What what's the if you're going to put a custom cabinet in like going to put a custom cabinet in like going to put a custom cabinet in like what is the highest quality? And then what is the highest quality? And then what is the highest quality? And then that's kind of kind of go into the next that's kind of kind of go into the next that's kind of kind of go into the next question. question. question. » Highest quality or highest cost » Highest quality or highest cost » Highest quality or highest cost » long term. So yeah, that's a good that's » long term. So yeah, that's a good that's » long term. So yeah, that's a good that's a good point. What what's going to last a good point. What what's going to last a good point. What what's going to last the longest and is that really a thing, the longest and is that really a thing, the longest and is that really a thing, right? If you have a custom wood cabinet right? If you have a custom wood cabinet right? If you have a custom wood cabinet from » I think it's a thing and I think it's » I think it's a thing and I think it's » I think it's a thing and I think it's something that you got to consider if something that you got to consider if something that you got to consider if you're spending that kind of money for a you're spending that kind of money for a you're spending that kind of money for a custom cabinet, right? You want custom cabinet, right? You want custom cabinet, right? You want something that's going to be durable, something that's going to be durable, something that's going to be durable, long lasting, not have a ton of wood long lasting, not have a ton of wood long lasting, not have a ton of wood movement, you know, to make sure things movement, you know, to make sure things movement, you know, to make sure things stay together. stay together. stay together. » Um, so » Um, so » Um, so something dense, you know, a white oak something dense, you know, a white oak something dense, you know, a white oak is really good. It's dense. I like the is really good. It's dense. I like the is really good. It's dense. I like the coloring in it. Um, coloring in it. Um, coloring in it. Um, you know, cherry, it's a good wood. you know, cherry, it's a good wood. you know, cherry, it's a good wood. Hickory, it's it's hard. Hickory, it's it's hard. Hickory, it's it's hard. » Um, and then there's some other ones » Um, and then there's some other ones » Um, and then there's some other ones throughout there depending on if you throughout there depending on if you throughout there depending on if you want to paint it, you know. want to paint it, you know. want to paint it, you know. » So, those all take stain in a different » So, those all take stain in a different » So, those all take stain in a different way though, right? cuz I'm like sitting way though, right? cuz I'm like sitting way though, right? cuz I'm like sitting there going like, "Okay, red oak, then there going like, "Okay, red oak, then there going like, "Okay, red oak, then it looks like this golden." I would have it looks like this golden." I would have it looks like this golden." I would have guessed that golden, guessed that golden, guessed that golden, » right? » right? » right? » That's what's tough, right? » That's what's tough, right? » That's what's tough, right? » White oak. Maybe » White oak. Maybe » White oak. Maybe » you the way you prep the wood and the » you the way you prep the wood and the » you the way you prep the wood and the type of wood. The same color will look type of wood. The same color will look type of wood. The same color will look different on every single piece of wood. different on every single piece of wood. different on every single piece of wood. And so it gets really tough. And so it gets really tough. And so it gets really tough. » That's just because of the grain size » That's just because of the grain size » That's just because of the grain size like or the whatever. like or the whatever. like or the whatever. » Yeah. The grain pattern and the » Yeah. The grain pattern and the » Yeah. The grain pattern and the structure of it. You know, some of them structure of it. You know, some of them structure of it. You know, some of them are open grain, some of them are closed, are open grain, some of them are closed, are open grain, some of them are closed, so it saturates more or pools on top. so it saturates more or pools on top. so it saturates more or pools on top. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » There's just a lot of things that go » There's just a lot of things that go » There's just a lot of things that go into it. into it. into it. » Can you like a really hard wood that um » Can you like a really hard wood that um » Can you like a really hard wood that um you were just talking about? I don't you were just talking about? I don't you were just talking about? I don't think you're saying as hickory, but that think you're saying as hickory, but that think you're saying as hickory, but that gets blotchy. Was that the gets blotchy. Was that the gets blotchy. Was that the » Oh, maple. Yeah, hard maple. » Oh, maple. Yeah, hard maple. » Oh, maple. Yeah, hard maple. » How do you avoid that? Is it just take » How do you avoid that? Is it just take » How do you avoid that? Is it just take way longer? way longer? way longer? » Um there's some ways around it, but » Um there's some ways around it, but » Um there's some ways around it, but sometimes it's unavoidable. So, you can sometimes it's unavoidable. So, you can sometimes it's unavoidable. So, you can do what we call conditioning it. So, do what we call conditioning it. So, do what we call conditioning it. So, basically, we put a clear stain on it basically, we put a clear stain on it basically, we put a clear stain on it first to try and close it up uh to get first to try and close it up uh to get first to try and close it up uh to get it to take the stain more evenly. it to take the stain more evenly. it to take the stain more evenly. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. » Um or you can spray a seal coat on it » Um or you can spray a seal coat on it » Um or you can spray a seal coat on it and sand it off and then try and stain and sand it off and then try and stain and sand it off and then try and stain it or tint your finish, too. it or tint your finish, too. it or tint your finish, too. » How do you tint a finish? » How do you tint a finish? » How do you tint a finish? » Uh so, you take your lacquer and you add » Uh so, you take your lacquer and you add » Uh so, you take your lacquer and you add dyes. dyes. dyes. » Oh, » Oh, » Oh, » and that gets tricky, too, because » and that gets tricky, too, because » and that gets tricky, too, because the more layers you put on it, the more layers you put on it, the more layers you put on it, the darker the color gets, right? So, it's darker the color gets, right? So, it's darker the color gets, right? So, it's tough. tough. tough. » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. » And that's the part I So, what is » And that's the part I So, what is » And that's the part I So, what is the draw for custom? Is it that is it the draw for custom? Is it that is it the draw for custom? Is it that is it that they get this I mean the grain that they get this I mean the grain that they get this I mean the grain right I feel like when you buy a part of right I feel like when you buy a part of right I feel like when you buy a part of you know Lowe's IKEA whatever right you know Lowe's IKEA whatever right you know Lowe's IKEA whatever right those grains all look fairly those grains all look fairly those grains all look fairly » similar and maybe they're a little » similar and maybe they're a little » similar and maybe they're a little different but it's like different but it's like different but it's like » it's I I don't know how they layer those » it's I I don't know how they layer those » it's I I don't know how they layer those cuz it's not the solid wood. It's like cuz it's not the solid wood. It's like cuz it's not the solid wood. It's like are they taking like a sixeenth of an are they taking like a sixeenth of an are they taking like a sixeenth of an inch of inch of inch of » that white oaks? » that white oaks? » that white oaks? Yeah. It's either a veneer or uh like a Yeah. It's either a veneer or uh like a Yeah. It's either a veneer or uh like a high pressure laminate that goes on it. high pressure laminate that goes on it. high pressure laminate that goes on it. What's the draw to custom? That's a good What's the draw to custom? That's a good What's the draw to custom? That's a good question. Uh, question. Uh, question. Uh, » the door feels heavy and it's like, » the door feels heavy and it's like, » the door feels heavy and it's like, » yeah, I mean, I would say there's a » yeah, I mean, I would say there's a » yeah, I mean, I would say there's a multitude of things. So, multitude of things. So, multitude of things. So, quality of construction quality of construction quality of construction » is a start. » is a start. » is a start. » Bloom hinges. » Bloom hinges. » Bloom hinges. » Yeah, Bloom hinges. Top-of-the-line » Yeah, Bloom hinges. Top-of-the-line » Yeah, Bloom hinges. Top-of-the-line hinges and hardware, right? hinges and hardware, right? hinges and hardware, right? » Some good hinges. I got Bloom Hinges. » Some good hinges. I got Bloom Hinges. » Some good hinges. I got Bloom Hinges. » Good. Yeah. Yeah, they're nice. Um, » Good. Yeah. Yeah, they're nice. Um, » Good. Yeah. Yeah, they're nice. Um, the ability to build whatever you want, the ability to build whatever you want, the ability to build whatever you want, » uh, size-wise. » uh, size-wise. » uh, size-wise. » That's true. » That's true. » That's true. » You know what I mean? A lot of people » You know what I mean? A lot of people » You know what I mean? A lot of people come in and they're like, "Hey, we have come in and they're like, "Hey, we have come in and they're like, "Hey, we have this space. We need like three 30-in this space. We need like three 30-in this space. We need like three 30-in cabinets or a filler here." Or they'll cabinets or a filler here." Or they'll cabinets or a filler here." Or they'll ask me like, "What's your standard size ask me like, "What's your standard size ask me like, "What's your standard size of cabinet?" I'm like, "I don't have a of cabinet?" I'm like, "I don't have a of cabinet?" I'm like, "I don't have a standard. Whatever you need it to be, standard. Whatever you need it to be, standard. Whatever you need it to be, » that's what I can do." Yeah. » that's what I can do." Yeah. » that's what I can do." Yeah. » You know, um, so I think it has its » You know, um, so I think it has its » You know, um, so I think it has its purpose in place, but it's not for purpose in place, but it's not for purpose in place, but it's not for everyone. A custom cabinet. everyone. A custom cabinet. everyone. A custom cabinet. » Um, so I think it just depends on the » Um, so I think it just depends on the » Um, so I think it just depends on the situation. situation. situation. » Yep. And » Yep. And » Yep. And » budget, obviously. » budget, obviously. » budget, obviously. » Yeah. Economics are big factor, right? » Yeah. Economics are big factor, right? » Yeah. Economics are big factor, right? Um but yeah, if you're sitting there and Um but yeah, if you're sitting there and Um but yeah, if you're sitting there and you want um when we did that years ago, you want um when we did that years ago, you want um when we did that years ago, there's like a corner and Rahm put in there's like a corner and Rahm put in there's like a corner and Rahm put in this like this like this like » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » pull out slide thing that does you know, » pull out slide thing that does you know, » pull out slide thing that does you know, we would have never thought about and we we would have never thought about and we we would have never thought about and we would have never ordered, would have never ordered, would have never ordered, » right? » right? » right? » Um so there's that consultation side of » Um so there's that consultation side of » Um so there's that consultation side of it too that I think is it too that I think is it too that I think is » and that's what's nice is like uh you » and that's what's nice is like uh you » and that's what's nice is like uh you know even in the smaller space you can know even in the smaller space you can know even in the smaller space you can really make it functional if you go really make it functional if you go really make it functional if you go custom. custom. custom. » Yeah. Now, standard, you're going to » Yeah. Now, standard, you're going to » Yeah. Now, standard, you're going to have some awkward fillers or some blind have some awkward fillers or some blind have some awkward fillers or some blind areas that you just can't avoid because areas that you just can't avoid because areas that you just can't avoid because you only have certain sizes of cabinets you only have certain sizes of cabinets you only have certain sizes of cabinets you can use. you can use. you can use. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um, you know, and so we build all our » Um, you know, and so we build all our » Um, you know, and so we build all our cabinets around the inserts that go in cabinets around the inserts that go in cabinets around the inserts that go in them. So, we're them. So, we're them. So, we're » maximizing space, right? We don't want » maximizing space, right? We don't want » maximizing space, right? We don't want to leave two or three inches on either to leave two or three inches on either to leave two or three inches on either side of a pull out. It's just wasted side of a pull out. It's just wasted side of a pull out. It's just wasted space. Let's make the cabinet next to it space. Let's make the cabinet next to it space. Let's make the cabinet next to it bigger. bigger. bigger. » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you can't really » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you can't really » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you can't really to order I mean, all those standard to order I mean, all those standard to order I mean, all those standard sizes if you've got that if you got an sizes if you've got that if you got an sizes if you've got that if you got an awkward run or you knock out a wall like awkward run or you knock out a wall like awkward run or you knock out a wall like we did in our kitchen. Mhm. we did in our kitchen. Mhm. we did in our kitchen. Mhm. » And we expanded the kitchen into another » And we expanded the kitchen into another » And we expanded the kitchen into another room. Well, now room. Well, now room. Well, now » none of this is standard anymore, right? » none of this is standard anymore, right? » none of this is standard anymore, right? It's not all going to line up and then It's not all going to line up and then It's not all going to line up and then we've got this much space. we've got this much space. we've got this much space. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And I think uh it's important to when » And I think uh it's important to when » And I think uh it's important to when somebody's going towards or stuck in somebody's going towards or stuck in somebody's going towards or stuck in between custom or prefab, custom or prefab, custom or prefab, » you know, I really try and dive in like » you know, I really try and dive in like » you know, I really try and dive in like what they use the kitchen for, what they use the kitchen for, what they use the kitchen for, » what think about where you would put » what think about where you would put » what think about where you would put things when we're done and will they things when we're done and will they things when we're done and will they fit, right? fit, right? fit, right? um you know, do you have like a large um you know, do you have like a large um you know, do you have like a large pot or something that you need a place pot or something that you need a place pot or something that you need a place for? Let's build a cabinet to make it for? Let's build a cabinet to make it for? Let's build a cabinet to make it fit. fit. fit. » And that's probably pretty exciting at » And that's probably pretty exciting at » And that's probably pretty exciting at that moment to be like, yeah, that moment to be like, yeah, that moment to be like, yeah, that drives me nuts when that's always drives me nuts when that's always drives me nuts when that's always » gigantic baking sheet and it just » gigantic baking sheet and it just » gigantic baking sheet and it just doesn't fit very well. So, you shove it doesn't fit very well. So, you shove it doesn't fit very well. So, you shove it on top or something like that. I'm like, on top or something like that. I'm like, on top or something like that. I'm like, well, let's just make a a place for it well, let's just make a a place for it well, let's just make a a place for it that fits and it's where you want it, that fits and it's where you want it, that fits and it's where you want it, where you need it. where you need it. where you need it. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » You know? » You know? » You know? » Yeah. That's awesome. Uh, so talk about » Yeah. That's awesome. Uh, so talk about » Yeah. That's awesome. Uh, so talk about prefab and the I mean it seems like prefab and the I mean it seems like prefab and the I mean it seems like there's endless amounts different there's endless amounts different there's endless amounts different grades. grades. grades. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um, you've got your new website up and » Um, you've got your new website up and » Um, you've got your new website up and so you've got a mix of both, right? A so you've got a mix of both, right? A so you've got a mix of both, right? A mixed bag if you will. So you got custom mixed bag if you will. So you got custom mixed bag if you will. So you got custom » different levels of prefab. So would you » different levels of prefab. So would you » different levels of prefab. So would you say » well let's start with this. Do you have » well let's start with this. Do you have » well let's start with this. Do you have budget um like value items that compare budget um like value items that compare budget um like value items that compare to pretty much anybody to pretty much anybody to pretty much anybody from like here's what you got, you're from like here's what you got, you're from like here's what you got, you're going to have cabinets, here's the going to have cabinets, here's the going to have cabinets, here's the price. price. price. » Mhm. » Mhm. » Mhm. » And is that going to be a similar » And is that going to be a similar » And is that going to be a similar experience to going to Lowe's and look experience to going to Lowe's and look experience to going to Lowe's and look at a catalog and at a catalog and at a catalog and » uh » uh » uh » break down that? » break down that? » break down that? » Yes and no. So to answer the first part » Yes and no. So to answer the first part » Yes and no. So to answer the first part of that is yeah we we do have a cabinet of that is yeah we we do have a cabinet of that is yeah we we do have a cabinet for about every price point you know all for about every price point you know all for about every price point you know all the way down to investment properties to the way down to investment properties to the way down to investment properties to you know high-end custom homes or you know high-end custom homes or you know high-end custom homes or » um to answer the second question as far » um to answer the second question as far » um to answer the second question as far as experience I would say it's going to as experience I would say it's going to as experience I would say it's going to be different. You know when you go to be different. You know when you go to be different. You know when you go to Lowe's or Home Depot or a box store like Lowe's or Home Depot or a box store like Lowe's or Home Depot or a box store like you're going to take your own you're going to take your own you're going to take your own measurements » and you better hope they're right. » and you better hope they're right. » and you better hope they're right. » Yeah. Um because then they'll input it » Yeah. Um because then they'll input it » Yeah. Um because then they'll input it into a computer and come up with the into a computer and come up with the into a computer and come up with the layout. So if you miss it by a couple layout. So if you miss it by a couple layout. So if you miss it by a couple inches and the cabinets don't fit, I inches and the cabinets don't fit, I inches and the cabinets don't fit, I guess that's on you now, right? Um guess that's on you now, right? Um guess that's on you now, right? Um » who does the installs at? Uh do they » who does the installs at? Uh do they » who does the installs at? Uh do they just have contractors? just have contractors? just have contractors? » I think they just contract those out. » I think they just contract those out. » I think they just contract those out. I'm not really sure. I'm not really sure. I'm not really sure. » Um you know, I think the difference that » Um you know, I think the difference that » Um you know, I think the difference that I can provide is, you know, I'll come I can provide is, you know, I'll come I can provide is, you know, I'll come and make the measurements myself. Um so and make the measurements myself. Um so and make the measurements myself. Um so then it takes the risk off the homeowner then it takes the risk off the homeowner then it takes the risk off the homeowner of ordering a bunch of stuff that of ordering a bunch of stuff that of ordering a bunch of stuff that doesn't fit. doesn't fit. doesn't fit. » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » In the long run. then it's on you if it » In the long run. then it's on you if it » In the long run. then it's on you if it doesn't. doesn't. doesn't. » Right. Right. And then it's on me to » Right. Right. And then it's on me to » Right. Right. And then it's on me to make it work or get a different cabinet. make it work or get a different cabinet. make it work or get a different cabinet. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um so yeah, I we're getting we're kind » Um so yeah, I we're getting we're kind » Um so yeah, I we're getting we're kind of new into the prefab stuff, so we're of new into the prefab stuff, so we're of new into the prefab stuff, so we're we're understanding it. Um but yeah, we're understanding it. Um but yeah, we're understanding it. Um but yeah, we've got a good we've got a good we've got a good variety, I guess I would say, from variety, I guess I would say, from variety, I guess I would say, from like I said, investment property/inch like I said, investment property/inch like I said, investment property/inch particle board cabinets. They look great particle board cabinets. They look great particle board cabinets. They look great on the outside. They don't necessarily on the outside. They don't necessarily on the outside. They don't necessarily function all that well, but you can get function all that well, but you can get function all that well, but you can get into a kitchen pretty cheap. um all the into a kitchen pretty cheap. um all the into a kitchen pretty cheap. um all the way up to, you know, full plywood box, way up to, you know, full plywood box, way up to, you know, full plywood box, hardwood doors, hardwood doors, hardwood doors, » uh a really nice kitchen, uh and I think » uh a really nice kitchen, uh and I think » uh a really nice kitchen, uh and I think there's like 45 different door styles there's like 45 different door styles there's like 45 different door styles and » jeez, » jeez, » jeez, » almost endless colors, right? » almost endless colors, right? » almost endless colors, right? » So, yeah, there's a cabinet out there. » So, yeah, there's a cabinet out there. » So, yeah, there's a cabinet out there. » Yeah. For there's a cabinet for » Yeah. For there's a cabinet for » Yeah. For there's a cabinet for everyone. everyone. everyone. » Absolutely. Absolutely. » Absolutely. Absolutely. » Absolutely. Absolutely. » U So, what has changed in your opinion » U So, what has changed in your opinion » U So, what has changed in your opinion in So, it's gosh 26 in So, it's gosh 26 in So, it's gosh 26 » so seven years. Mhm. » so seven years. Mhm. » so seven years. Mhm. » Coming on seven years in prefab, has it » Coming on seven years in prefab, has it » Coming on seven years in prefab, has it has your confidence level gone up on has your confidence level gone up on has your confidence level gone up on like the higherend prefab? like the higherend prefab? like the higherend prefab? » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Has that, you know, from where you even » Has that, you know, from where you even » Has that, you know, from where you even probably saw back in college, probably saw back in college, probably saw back in college, » right? Um, you know, the old » right? Um, you know, the old » right? Um, you know, the old days of of prefab cabinets, they were days of of prefab cabinets, they were days of of prefab cabinets, they were basically all the same. You could change basically all the same. You could change basically all the same. You could change the front a little bit, the front a little bit, the front a little bit, » the wood species and things like that, » the wood species and things like that, » the wood species and things like that, but the construction of them was all the but the construction of them was all the but the construction of them was all the same. And it's pretty low quality. same. And it's pretty low quality. same. And it's pretty low quality. » And it's gotten much better. much » And it's gotten much better. much » And it's gotten much better. much better. Uh, now it cost you a little bit better. Uh, now it cost you a little bit better. Uh, now it cost you a little bit more, but it's a cabinet that'll last more, but it's a cabinet that'll last more, but it's a cabinet that'll last and you know it's going to work. And a and you know it's going to work. And a and you know it's going to work. And a lot of these prefab cabinet shop nows, lot of these prefab cabinet shop nows, lot of these prefab cabinet shop nows, uh, they all have a little bit of a uh, they all have a little bit of a uh, they all have a little bit of a custom line, too. So, custom line, too. So, custom line, too. So, » you know, 90% of the job works coming » you know, 90% of the job works coming » you know, 90% of the job works coming off the standard catalog item, but you off the standard catalog item, but you off the standard catalog item, but you need a couple of special things and need a couple of special things and need a couple of special things and they'll do it for you now. they'll do it for you now. they'll do it for you now. » Gotcha. So, that's a big deal. » Gotcha. So, that's a big deal. » Gotcha. So, that's a big deal. » That's cool. » That's cool. » That's cool. » Yeah. So the builder when you're » Yeah. So the builder when you're » Yeah. So the builder when you're selling a prefab, they'll actually build selling a prefab, they'll actually build selling a prefab, they'll actually build some » custom Y. You don't actually have to » custom Y. You don't actually have to » custom Y. You don't actually have to take all that on, take all that on, take all that on, » right? » right? » right? » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. That's the goal with the prefab is » Yeah. That's the goal with the prefab is » Yeah. That's the goal with the prefab is uh lighten the workload in the shop. uh lighten the workload in the shop. uh lighten the workload in the shop. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Right. We just want everything to show » Right. We just want everything to show » Right. We just want everything to show up ready to go install and whether I up ready to go install and whether I up ready to go install and whether I install that or the homeowner installs install that or the homeowner installs install that or the homeowner installs it, it doesn't make a difference to me. it, it doesn't make a difference to me. it, it doesn't make a difference to me. We just want it to all be there and be We just want it to all be there and be We just want it to all be there and be right. right. right. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. So, break down your uh logistics. What So, break down your uh logistics. What So, break down your uh logistics. What is your biggest what is the hardest part is your biggest what is the hardest part is your biggest what is the hardest part about your workflow and timing? Cuz that about your workflow and timing? Cuz that about your workflow and timing? Cuz that I mean if you're building I think of I mean if you're building I think of I mean if you're building I think of like a home builder they put you in that like a home builder they put you in that like a home builder they put you in that box, right? It's kind of the same idea box, right? It's kind of the same idea box, right? It's kind of the same idea except for you build cabinets. except for you build cabinets. except for you build cabinets. » Home builders there's there's kind of » Home builders there's there's kind of » Home builders there's there's kind of the GC side of it obviously scoping out the GC side of it obviously scoping out the GC side of it obviously scoping out the project. So you're measuring the project. So you're measuring the project. So you're measuring » then you're putting together a proposal » then you're putting together a proposal » then you're putting together a proposal » and so you're thinking through material » and so you're thinking through material » and so you're thinking through material time all that which I'm sure you've time all that which I'm sure you've time all that which I'm sure you've gotten a lot better at. gotten a lot better at. gotten a lot better at. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Over the years. Uh did do you have any » Over the years. Uh did do you have any » Over the years. Uh did do you have any like were proposals hard at the like were proposals hard at the like were proposals hard at the beginning or beginning or beginning or » very hard. I mean because that was a » very hard. I mean because that was a » very hard. I mean because that was a side of the business I was never part side of the business I was never part side of the business I was never part of. Right. I was always in the shop. I of. Right. I was always in the shop. I of. Right. I was always in the shop. I knew how to make it. knew how to make it. knew how to make it. » He didn't have like an SOP standard » He didn't have like an SOP standard » He didn't have like an SOP standard operating procedure for you to follow on operating procedure for you to follow on operating procedure for you to follow on quotes. quotes. quotes. » No. No. Um yeah. Early on there was some » No. No. Um yeah. Early on there was some » No. No. Um yeah. Early on there was some » not very well quotes. Uh lose some » not very well quotes. Uh lose some » not very well quotes. Uh lose some money, learn the hard way type thing, money, learn the hard way type thing, money, learn the hard way type thing, right? You know, you sit down, you look right? You know, you sit down, you look right? You know, you sit down, you look at a job, and uh you I can figure out at a job, and uh you I can figure out at a job, and uh you I can figure out how much material I need pretty quick, how much material I need pretty quick, how much material I need pretty quick, pretty easily. You know, that's that's pretty easily. You know, that's that's pretty easily. You know, that's that's not the problem. It's the labor that not the problem. It's the labor that not the problem. It's the labor that gets tough, especially in a custom gets tough, especially in a custom gets tough, especially in a custom setting. setting. setting. » So, probably especially when you're » So, probably especially when you're » So, probably especially when you're doing demo. Do you guys do demo as well? doing demo. Do you guys do demo as well? doing demo. Do you guys do demo as well? » Uh yes and no. Um » Uh yes and no. Um » Uh yes and no. Um » I don't love it, but we'll do it. » I don't love it, but we'll do it. » I don't love it, but we'll do it. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um I don't mind it. » Um I don't mind it. » Um I don't mind it. » So, it depends on the job, too. like » So, it depends on the job, too. like » So, it depends on the job, too. like home remodels, we're usually pretty home remodels, we're usually pretty home remodels, we're usually pretty intimate with the entire process, you intimate with the entire process, you intimate with the entire process, you know, cuz a lot of times in a kitchen know, cuz a lot of times in a kitchen know, cuz a lot of times in a kitchen remodel, a homeowner will come and, hey, remodel, a homeowner will come and, hey, remodel, a homeowner will come and, hey, I want a new kitchen. I want a new kitchen. I want a new kitchen. » So, a lot of that stuff kind of falls on » So, a lot of that stuff kind of falls on » So, a lot of that stuff kind of falls on me as far as, okay, let's put a design me as far as, okay, let's put a design me as far as, okay, let's put a design together, something we like. Let's together, something we like. Let's together, something we like. Let's figure out the style of cabinet we want, figure out the style of cabinet we want, figure out the style of cabinet we want, the color, all that stuff. the color, all that stuff. the color, all that stuff. But then we got to get the electricians But then we got to get the electricians But then we got to get the electricians involved and the plumbers involved and involved and the plumbers involved and involved and the plumbers involved and maybe a drywaller or flooring guy. And maybe a drywaller or flooring guy. And maybe a drywaller or flooring guy. And those homeowners don't always have those homeowners don't always have those homeowners don't always have those connections. connections. connections. » Gotcha. » Gotcha. » Gotcha. » So then I end up doing a lot of that » So then I end up doing a lot of that » So then I end up doing a lot of that myself. myself. myself. » Gotcha. Yeah. Even if you're just GCing, » Gotcha. Yeah. Even if you're just GCing, » Gotcha. Yeah. Even if you're just GCing, you're still the one like calling a you're still the one like calling a you're still the one like calling a firewall guy, firewall guy, firewall guy, » setting them up, right? I've got to let » setting them up, right? I've got to let » setting them up, right? I've got to let them know what my schedule is. So, you them know what my schedule is. So, you them know what my schedule is. So, you know, we're in somebody's house. We got know, we're in somebody's house. We got know, we're in somebody's house. We got to get in, get out as quick as we can. to get in, get out as quick as we can. to get in, get out as quick as we can. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » So they're not living in a disaster. » So they're not living in a disaster. » So they're not living in a disaster. » They're not eating McDonald's every day. » They're not eating McDonald's every day. » They're not eating McDonald's every day. That's that to me is the hard part That's that to me is the hard part That's that to me is the hard part about a kitchen about a kitchen about a kitchen » remodel when you're living in that it's » remodel when you're living in that it's » remodel when you're living in that it's different if it's like a new home or different if it's like a new home or different if it's like a new home or » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » you know, you're moving there or just » you know, you're moving there or just » you know, you're moving there or just bought it. Um bought it. Um bought it. Um » but yeah, that's I'm sure that's » but yeah, that's I'm sure that's » but yeah, that's I'm sure that's stressful in a timeline and it's not. stressful in a timeline and it's not. stressful in a timeline and it's not. » It's terribly stressful, you know, cuz I » It's terribly stressful, you know, cuz I » It's terribly stressful, you know, cuz I feel bad like I don't want feel bad like I don't want feel bad like I don't want » you one sub to a job and it complicates, » you one sub to a job and it complicates, » you one sub to a job and it complicates, » right? And I don't want to displace » right? And I don't want to displace » right? And I don't want to displace these people from their kitchen anymore these people from their kitchen anymore these people from their kitchen anymore and you have to. and you have to. and you have to. » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » You know, uh you need a kitchen to live » You know, uh you need a kitchen to live » You know, uh you need a kitchen to live pretty much. pretty much. pretty much. » Um so yeah, it gets stressful, right? » Um so yeah, it gets stressful, right? » Um so yeah, it gets stressful, right? And that's why in remodels, you know, And that's why in remodels, you know, And that's why in remodels, you know, everybody gets so excited in the everybody gets so excited in the everybody gets so excited in the beginning and they want to start tearing beginning and they want to start tearing beginning and they want to start tearing their stuff out and let's get going. I'm their stuff out and let's get going. I'm their stuff out and let's get going. I'm like, "Hey, let's pump the brakes. I like, "Hey, let's pump the brakes. I like, "Hey, let's pump the brakes. I I'll call you a week before we're ready I'll call you a week before we're ready I'll call you a week before we're ready to come. There's no reason to tear it to come. There's no reason to tear it to come. There's no reason to tear it out right now. It's functional. Leave out right now. It's functional. Leave out right now. It's functional. Leave it." it." it." » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And then we'll get going. » And then we'll get going. » And then we'll get going. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » You know, cuz once if they start doing » You know, cuz once if they start doing » You know, cuz once if they start doing that, then they're calling me every that, then they're calling me every that, then they're calling me every week. Hey, you ready? Hey, you ready? week. Hey, you ready? Hey, you ready? week. Hey, you ready? Hey, you ready? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. » No, I'm not. » No, I'm not. » No, I'm not. » I'm not. » I'm not. » I'm not. » This takes a while. » This takes a while. » This takes a while. » Yeah. That's that's probably important » Yeah. That's that's probably important » Yeah. That's that's probably important on communication. Uh so now you've got on communication. Uh so now you've got on communication. Uh so now you've got somebody helping in that process. somebody helping in that process. somebody helping in that process. » Uh so quote, measure, » Uh so quote, measure, » Uh so quote, measure, » go back to shop and we'll talk custom. » go back to shop and we'll talk custom. » go back to shop and we'll talk custom. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Order mater. They approve bid. Then you » Order mater. They approve bid. Then you » Order mater. They approve bid. Then you order material. order material. order material. » Then you start making it. » Then you start making it. » Then you start making it. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And then at some point when it's done » And then at some point when it's done » And then at some point when it's done being made being made being made » it all goes out at once. Is it go in » it all goes out at once. Is it go in » it all goes out at once. Is it go in stages? stages? stages? » Yeah. We try and take as much as we can » Yeah. We try and take as much as we can » Yeah. We try and take as much as we can all at the same time. Um all at the same time. Um all at the same time. Um » because I'm like thinking of some big » because I'm like thinking of some big » because I'm like thinking of some big kitchens you've done and I'm like can kitchens you've done and I'm like can kitchens you've done and I'm like can you fit all that in one? Oh, you got a you fit all that in one? Oh, you got a you fit all that in one? Oh, you got a new trailer actually. I new trailer actually. I new trailer actually. I » did. Finally had to get a bigger » did. Finally had to get a bigger » did. Finally had to get a bigger trailer. You know, the other one was too trailer. You know, the other one was too trailer. You know, the other one was too small. small. small. » Um but no, a lot of times it won't fit » Um but no, a lot of times it won't fit » Um but no, a lot of times it won't fit in one load, in one load, in one load, » which is fine. » which is fine. » which is fine. » I haven't done many kitchen installs » I haven't done many kitchen installs » I haven't done many kitchen installs that take a day only, right? So, you that take a day only, right? So, you that take a day only, right? So, you strategically take what you need to get strategically take what you need to get strategically take what you need to get started and go back the next day with started and go back the next day with started and go back the next day with the rest. the rest. the rest. » It makes sense to me if you're doing the » It makes sense to me if you're doing the » It makes sense to me if you're doing the full which is like the biggest part of full which is like the biggest part of full which is like the biggest part of the kitchen. Um, how often do you touch the kitchen. Um, how often do you touch the kitchen. Um, how often do you touch countertops? How often do you touch countertops? How often do you touch countertops? How often do you touch sinks or, you know, faucets? I mean, I sinks or, you know, faucets? I mean, I sinks or, you know, faucets? I mean, I know that kind of falls on the plumber know that kind of falls on the plumber know that kind of falls on the plumber for the install side, but for the install side, but for the install side, but » So, to be truthful, I'm trying to get » So, to be truthful, I'm trying to get » So, to be truthful, I'm trying to get out of the countertop business. out of the countertop business. out of the countertop business. » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » We did a lot of countertops for a while. » We did a lot of countertops for a while. » We did a lot of countertops for a while. Um, Um, Um, it's a solid surface product. We I can't it's a solid surface product. We I can't it's a solid surface product. We I can't do quartz or granite or things like do quartz or granite or things like do quartz or granite or things like that. It's too heavy, too much machine. that. It's too heavy, too much machine. that. It's too heavy, too much machine. » Yeah. Um, you know, so we built some » Yeah. Um, you know, so we built some » Yeah. Um, you know, so we built some tops that we could handle and do tops that we could handle and do tops that we could handle and do ourselves in in in house, but ourselves in in in house, but ourselves in in in house, but » you know, we're so busy with cabinet » you know, we're so busy with cabinet » you know, we're so busy with cabinet work now. Um, work now. Um, work now. Um, » stay in your lane, » stay in your lane, » stay in your lane, » right? Stick with what you're good » right? Stick with what you're good » right? Stick with what you're good at. at. at. » And and again, even building a » And and again, even building a » And and again, even building a countertop in the shop, you pretty much countertop in the shop, you pretty much countertop in the shop, you pretty much got to shut the shop down for the got to shut the shop down for the got to shut the shop down for the entirety of building it. And it's big, entirety of building it. And it's big, entirety of building it. And it's big, it's messy, it's heavy. it's messy, it's heavy. it's messy, it's heavy. » So, I just leave it to the countertop » So, I just leave it to the countertop » So, I just leave it to the countertop guys. guys. guys. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » You know. Yeah. » You know. Yeah. » You know. Yeah. » And there's a few companies which I work » And there's a few companies which I work » And there's a few companies which I work with. So I can send them some referrals with. So I can send them some referrals with. So I can send them some referrals or something and they can get it figured or something and they can get it figured or something and they can get it figured out. out. out. » Yeah. When they're doing the countertop » Yeah. When they're doing the countertop » Yeah. When they're doing the countertop side, are they communicating with you side, are they communicating with you side, are they communicating with you » on the cabinet side to get your like » on the cabinet side to get your like » on the cabinet side to get your like your drawings or your outline or Yeah. your drawings or your outline or Yeah. your drawings or your outline or Yeah. » you just take what they have and follow » you just take what they have and follow » you just take what they have and follow that? Like who follows who? that? Like who follows who? that? Like who follows who? » So they follow me. Okay. Right. I'm » So they follow me. Okay. Right. I'm » So they follow me. Okay. Right. I'm pretty much driving this bus throughout pretty much driving this bus throughout pretty much driving this bus throughout the whole project. Um the whole project. Um the whole project. Um » yeah, we'll we'll we'll send them over » yeah, we'll we'll we'll send them over » yeah, we'll we'll we'll send them over there. They'll pick out a color. The there. They'll pick out a color. The there. They'll pick out a color. The countertop people call me, hey, can you countertop people call me, hey, can you countertop people call me, hey, can you send me a rendering, you know, with some send me a rendering, you know, with some send me a rendering, you know, with some dimensions so they can put an estimate dimensions so they can put an estimate dimensions so they can put an estimate together, how much material they need. together, how much material they need. together, how much material they need. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » How much it's going to cost? » How much it's going to cost? » How much it's going to cost? » And how do you send that rendering over? » And how do you send that rendering over? » And how do you send that rendering over? » Just email. » Just email. » Just email. » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » And then once cabinets are set, then » And then once cabinets are set, then » And then once cabinets are set, then they'll come and do a laser template of they'll come and do a laser template of they'll come and do a laser template of the entire kitchen before they start the entire kitchen before they start the entire kitchen before they start making it. making it. making it. » Oh, nice. Okay. » Oh, nice. Okay. » Oh, nice. Okay. » Yep. » Yep. » Yep. » That probably protects. » That probably protects. » That probably protects. » So, the rendering is basically » So, the rendering is basically » So, the rendering is basically » Oh, just for quoting the material » Oh, just for quoting the material » Oh, just for quoting the material purposes. purposes. purposes. » Got it. Yeah. But then they'll do an » Got it. Yeah. But then they'll do an » Got it. Yeah. But then they'll do an actual That's nice. That probably takes actual That's nice. That probably takes actual That's nice. That probably takes a lot of You were doing all that before. a lot of You were doing all that before. a lot of You were doing all that before. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. Without a laser. » Yeah. Without a laser. » Yeah. Without a laser. » Yeah. Without a laser. » Yeah. Without a laser. » Yeah. Without a laser. » Good eye, Josh. You better have a good » Good eye, Josh. You better have a good » Good eye, Josh. You better have a good eye. eye. eye. » Building wooden templates, man. See, » Building wooden templates, man. See, » Building wooden templates, man. See, that's what, you know, so that's what, you know, so that's what, you know, so » now I'm just like, let's let's stick to » now I'm just like, let's let's stick to » now I'm just like, let's let's stick to cabinets. cabinets. cabinets. » That's what I enjoy. That's what we're » That's what I enjoy. That's what we're » That's what I enjoy. That's what we're good at. good at. good at. » Yeah. Let's just do what we're good at. » Yeah. Let's just do what we're good at. » Yeah. Let's just do what we're good at. » What's What's the most difficult part » What's What's the most difficult part » What's What's the most difficult part about your business? Just from a about your business? Just from a about your business? Just from a logistics and timing and logistics and timing and logistics and timing and » Yeah. scheduling. Scheduling. » Yeah. scheduling. Scheduling. » Yeah. scheduling. Scheduling. » Scheduling. Um, managing workload with » Scheduling. Um, managing workload with » Scheduling. Um, managing workload with only two of us in the shop. only two of us in the shop. only two of us in the shop. » It gets tough. Yeah. » It gets tough. Yeah. » It gets tough. Yeah. » Um, you know, you do your best to try » Um, you know, you do your best to try » Um, you know, you do your best to try and schedule things out and estimate and schedule things out and estimate and schedule things out and estimate how much time it's going to take. And I how much time it's going to take. And I how much time it's going to take. And I mean, if things take a week longer, you mean, if things take a week longer, you mean, if things take a week longer, you know, that's bumping everybody else know, that's bumping everybody else know, that's bumping everybody else back. back. back. » Or on the flip side, say new » Or on the flip side, say new » Or on the flip side, say new construction or something like that, if construction or something like that, if construction or something like that, if if a sub early on gets behind, it pushes if a sub early on gets behind, it pushes if a sub early on gets behind, it pushes you back, right? Well, then it's pushing you back, right? Well, then it's pushing you back, right? Well, then it's pushing you back into the next one. And if that you back into the next one. And if that you back into the next one. And if that happens a couple times in a row, like happens a couple times in a row, like happens a couple times in a row, like over this winter, I mean, I was trying over this winter, I mean, I was trying over this winter, I mean, I was trying to juggle three jobs at one time because to juggle three jobs at one time because to juggle three jobs at one time because every two of them got backed up and one every two of them got backed up and one every two of them got backed up and one of them was on schedule and they all of them was on schedule and they all of them was on schedule and they all wanted at the same time. wanted at the same time. wanted at the same time. » So, yeah, it's just scheduling and » So, yeah, it's just scheduling and » So, yeah, it's just scheduling and logistics and logistics and logistics and » cuz I don't like to disappoint anybody, » cuz I don't like to disappoint anybody, » cuz I don't like to disappoint anybody, right? Like I I don't want to be the one right? Like I I don't want to be the one right? Like I I don't want to be the one that everybody's screaming and that everybody's screaming and that everybody's screaming and hollering, hey, you're late. You're hollering, hey, you're late. You're hollering, hey, you're late. You're holding. holding. holding. » Especially in the big remodels, you're » Especially in the big remodels, you're » Especially in the big remodels, you're like, you know, you always want to be on like, you know, you always want to be on like, you know, you always want to be on the good side of the good side of the good side of the » Right. » Right. » Right. » You don't want to be bad. » You don't want to be bad. » You don't want to be bad. » And same with new construction, too, » And same with new construction, too, » And same with new construction, too, right? You want to treat the general right? You want to treat the general right? You want to treat the general contractor well so you get the next one, contractor well so you get the next one, contractor well so you get the next one, » right? » right? » right? » So, » So, » So, » yeah. And you don't really want to » yeah. And you don't really want to » yeah. And you don't really want to that's that's a hard thing to give up, that's that's a hard thing to give up, that's that's a hard thing to give up, too. Talk about delegating. too. Talk about delegating. too. Talk about delegating. » You know, it's an art what you're doing. » You know, it's an art what you're doing. » You know, it's an art what you're doing. What's more difficult, building the What's more difficult, building the What's more difficult, building the cabinets or installing the cabinets? cabinets or installing the cabinets? cabinets or installing the cabinets? » Building. » Building. » Building. » Building. Yeah. What? » Building. Yeah. What? » Building. Yeah. What? » The the front end process is so much » The the front end process is so much » The the front end process is so much more difficult than the installation. more difficult than the installation. more difficult than the installation. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » By the time we get to the installation, » By the time we get to the installation, » By the time we get to the installation, we've got a rendering, we've got we've got a rendering, we've got we've got a rendering, we've got drawings, everything's labeled. drawings, everything's labeled. drawings, everything's labeled. » I mean, we're just putting them on the » I mean, we're just putting them on the » I mean, we're just putting them on the wall at that point, you know, in the way wall at that point, you know, in the way wall at that point, you know, in the way we started installing now with, you we started installing now with, you we started installing now with, you know, adjustable legs and things like know, adjustable legs and things like know, adjustable legs and things like that. There's no shims anymore. So, the that. There's no shims anymore. So, the that. There's no shims anymore. So, the installation is quite easy. installation is quite easy. installation is quite easy. » What gets difficult is in the beginning » What gets difficult is in the beginning » What gets difficult is in the beginning » everything's got to fit. » everything's got to fit. » everything's got to fit. » Yeah. you know, uh, we're measuring down » Yeah. you know, uh, we're measuring down » Yeah. you know, uh, we're measuring down to the 16th of an inch when we go to to the 16th of an inch when we go to to the 16th of an inch when we go to measure, measure, measure, » you know, pre-rendering, right? » you know, pre-rendering, right? » you know, pre-rendering, right? » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And then we got to get all that laid out » And then we got to get all that laid out » And then we got to get all that laid out and make sure it's all going to fit and make sure it's all going to fit and make sure it's all going to fit and it's what they want. it's what they want. it's what they want. » Um, what's that back and forth like when » Um, what's that back and forth like when » Um, what's that back and forth like when you put that rendering together? Like, you put that rendering together? Like, you put that rendering together? Like, are people seeing something before they are people seeing something before they are people seeing something before they agree to a price? agree to a price? agree to a price? » Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, » Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, » Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, usually the process starts as usually the process starts as usually the process starts as I'll go to the home first. We'll have a I'll go to the home first. We'll have a I'll go to the home first. We'll have a quick consult. I'll get some rough quick consult. I'll get some rough quick consult. I'll get some rough measurements. I'll go back and I'll put measurements. I'll go back and I'll put measurements. I'll go back and I'll put a rendering together, something quick a rendering together, something quick a rendering together, something quick and easy, and easy, and easy, » something to look at, and then we'll » something to look at, and then we'll » something to look at, and then we'll just start that process. They'll usually just start that process. They'll usually just start that process. They'll usually come down to the office, we'll look at come down to the office, we'll look at come down to the office, we'll look at it, kind of custom discuss it. What do it, kind of custom discuss it. What do it, kind of custom discuss it. What do you like? What do you don't like? you like? What do you don't like? you like? What do you don't like? » Um, you know, I'll give them some ideas » Um, you know, I'll give them some ideas » Um, you know, I'll give them some ideas on what I think could work. Yeah. on what I think could work. Yeah. on what I think could work. Yeah. » And then we'll just kind of go back and » And then we'll just kind of go back and » And then we'll just kind of go back and forth. Usually only a couple times. We forth. Usually only a couple times. We forth. Usually only a couple times. We can get through it pretty quick. can get through it pretty quick. can get through it pretty quick. » Yeah. Um » Yeah. Um » Yeah. Um the decision- making gets tough when the decision- making gets tough when the decision- making gets tough when we're start talking about species and we're start talking about species and we're start talking about species and colors and styles. I mean the colors and styles. I mean the colors and styles. I mean the possibilities are endless. I think at possibilities are endless. I think at possibilities are endless. I think at some point there's too many options. some point there's too many options. some point there's too many options. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » You know what I mean? » You know what I mean? » You know what I mean? » Uh » Uh » Uh » at some point you have to have a » at some point you have to have a » at some point you have to have a recommendation of like this is what I recommendation of like this is what I recommendation of like this is what I like, this is why. like, this is why. like, this is why. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » You know, limit it, right? » You know, limit it, right? » You know, limit it, right? » Like condense it. You know, someone like » Like condense it. You know, someone like » Like condense it. You know, someone like me, I'm just going to be like I don't me, I'm just going to be like I don't me, I'm just going to be like I don't know, man. know, man. know, man. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Like what should I do? » Like what should I do? » Like what should I do? » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um Yeah. So, it it gets tough, » Um Yeah. So, it it gets tough, » Um Yeah. So, it it gets tough, especially, you know, a stained project. especially, you know, a stained project. especially, you know, a stained project. Now, paint, it's pretty easy. Now, paint, it's pretty easy. Now, paint, it's pretty easy. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Pick out a color and we'll paint it, » Pick out a color and we'll paint it, » Pick out a color and we'll paint it, » right? » right? » right? » It doesn't matter. » It doesn't matter. » It doesn't matter. » Yeah. Do you like painting cabinets? » Yeah. Do you like painting cabinets? » Yeah. Do you like painting cabinets? » No. » No. » No. » Nobody likes painting cabinets. » Nobody likes painting cabinets. » Nobody likes painting cabinets. » If if they're painting, how much more do » If if they're painting, how much more do » If if they're painting, how much more do you like want them to go into like you like want them to go into like you like want them to go into like high-end prefab versus uh you doing? high-end prefab versus uh you doing? high-end prefab versus uh you doing? » Depends on the project. Is the prefab » Depends on the project. Is the prefab » Depends on the project. Is the prefab going to work? going to work? going to work? » Is it what they want? I mean, I'll never » Is it what they want? I mean, I'll never » Is it what they want? I mean, I'll never tell them no, I'm not going to paint it. tell them no, I'm not going to paint it. tell them no, I'm not going to paint it. I mean, that's what we do. Um, but I mean, that's what we do. Um, but I mean, that's what we do. Um, but » I don't like paint for a lot of reasons. » I don't like paint for a lot of reasons. » I don't like paint for a lot of reasons. You know, a lot of people have this uh You know, a lot of people have this uh You know, a lot of people have this uh idea that a painting cabinet is cheaper idea that a painting cabinet is cheaper idea that a painting cabinet is cheaper than a stain cabinet, than a stain cabinet, than a stain cabinet, » and that's not the truth. » and that's not the truth. » and that's not the truth. » The prep work to go into painting a » The prep work to go into painting a » The prep work to go into painting a cabinet is more than a prep work to cabinet is more than a prep work to cabinet is more than a prep work to stain a cabinet, you know. stain a cabinet, you know. stain a cabinet, you know. » Um, so that gets tough » Um, so that gets tough » Um, so that gets tough » and materials are probably more when you » and materials are probably more when you » and materials are probably more when you go to paint if you use a good quality go to paint if you use a good quality go to paint if you use a good quality paint. Yeah. the paint. Yeah. the paint. Yeah. the paint » like that. I would assume the species of » like that. I would assume the species of » like that. I would assume the species of wood is more expensive when you're wood is more expensive when you're wood is more expensive when you're staining because you're getting a nicer. staining because you're getting a nicer. staining because you're getting a nicer. » You know, that's funny. A lot of people » You know, that's funny. A lot of people » You know, that's funny. A lot of people think that too. It's not the truth. think that too. It's not the truth. think that too. It's not the truth. » What are you normally painting? What » What are you normally painting? What » What are you normally painting? What type of type of type of » So, we've we've switched. We were using » So, we've we've switched. We were using » So, we've we've switched. We were using a soft maple that was graded paint grade a soft maple that was graded paint grade a soft maple that was graded paint grade cuz the coloring wasn't good. So, we've cuz the coloring wasn't good. So, we've cuz the coloring wasn't good. So, we've switched actually to a beach, European switched actually to a beach, European switched actually to a beach, European beach. beach. beach. » Um, it's a little bit tighter, it's » Um, it's a little bit tighter, it's » Um, it's a little bit tighter, it's denser, it's harder than a maple. Um, so denser, it's harder than a maple. Um, so denser, it's harder than a maple. Um, so I think it lasts a lot longer. I think it lasts a lot longer. I think it lasts a lot longer. » Okay. Um, » Okay. Um, » Okay. Um, » but it's not cheap. » but it's not cheap. » but it's not cheap. » No, I mean it's the same money as a » No, I mean it's the same money as a » No, I mean it's the same money as a high-end stained wood. Really? high-end stained wood. Really? high-end stained wood. Really? » Jeez. » Jeez. » Jeez. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. Yeah. So, » Yeah. Yeah. So, » Yeah. Yeah. So, » and that's just a modern thing. Now, » and that's just a modern thing. Now, » and that's just a modern thing. Now, what's what's Tyler's favorite uh what's what's Tyler's favorite uh what's what's Tyler's favorite uh species of wood? species of wood? species of wood? » Walnut. » Walnut. » Walnut. » Walnut. Walnut. » Walnut. Walnut. » Walnut. Walnut. » Yeah. I know. The kitchen in our last » Yeah. I know. The kitchen in our last » Yeah. I know. The kitchen in our last house was uh was walnut and it was it house was uh was walnut and it was it house was uh was walnut and it was it was really nice. was really nice. was really nice. » Yeah, those were sick. Yeah. » Yeah, those were sick. Yeah. » Yeah, those were sick. Yeah. » Yeah. And did you just put like a clear » Yeah. And did you just put like a clear » Yeah. And did you just put like a clear Walnut's like one you want to just put a Walnut's like one you want to just put a Walnut's like one you want to just put a » Yeah, just clear f handles. » Yeah, just clear f handles. » Yeah, just clear f handles. » You don't want to mess with it much, » You don't want to mess with it much, » You don't want to mess with it much, right? It's so beautiful the way it is. right? It's so beautiful the way it is. right? It's so beautiful the way it is. » So different all over. » So different all over. » So different all over. » Yeah. You need like a a certain look » Yeah. You need like a a certain look » Yeah. You need like a a certain look like complimenting walnut I feel like on like complimenting walnut I feel like on like complimenting walnut I feel like on a wall like there's a wall like there's a wall like there's » you got to think through that a little » you got to think through that a little » you got to think through that a little bit more than bit more than bit more than » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » a painted cabinet like what's going to » a painted cabinet like what's going to » a painted cabinet like what's going to accent that. accent that. accent that. » Yeah. Yeah. you know. So, I guess I feel » Yeah. Yeah. you know. So, I guess I feel » Yeah. Yeah. you know. So, I guess I feel like part of my job is too is to help like part of my job is too is to help like part of my job is too is to help educate people. Sure. educate people. Sure. educate people. Sure. » On on what they're doing or or » On on what they're doing or or » On on what they're doing or or which route to go, you know. Um me which route to go, you know. Um me which route to go, you know. Um me personally, I would never have a personally, I would never have a personally, I would never have a painting cabinet in my house for not painting cabinet in my house for not painting cabinet in my house for not because of the look because like, you because of the look because like, you because of the look because like, you know, I work in construction. My hands know, I work in construction. My hands know, I work in construction. My hands are always dirty. are always dirty. are always dirty. » The cabinets clean. » The cabinets clean. » The cabinets clean. » Yeah. The maintenance, the cleaning. » Yeah. The maintenance, the cleaning. » Yeah. The maintenance, the cleaning. » We've experienced that. That is the one » We've experienced that. That is the one » We've experienced that. That is the one I mean, especially a white. It shows up I mean, especially a white. It shows up I mean, especially a white. It shows up everything. Little kids, they spill everything. Little kids, they spill everything. Little kids, they spill something on it, you know. something on it, you know. something on it, you know. » So, I don't I that's why I wouldn't have » So, I don't I that's why I wouldn't have » So, I don't I that's why I wouldn't have a painting cabinet. Now, some people a painting cabinet. Now, some people a painting cabinet. Now, some people it's it's what they want, you know? it's it's what they want, you know? it's it's what they want, you know? » Oh, there's finger. It doesn't matter » Oh, there's finger. It doesn't matter » Oh, there's finger. It doesn't matter what's on it. Like, you can see these what's on it. Like, you can see these what's on it. Like, you can see these fingerprints and then when you clean it, fingerprints and then when you clean it, fingerprints and then when you clean it, » you're just like nervous. You're like » you're just like nervous. You're like » you're just like nervous. You're like scrubbing too hard in that paint. scrubbing too hard in that paint. scrubbing too hard in that paint. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um » Um » Um » Yeah. Now, you know, technology has » Yeah. Now, you know, technology has » Yeah. Now, you know, technology has gotten a lot better. So, we a lot of gotten a lot better. So, we a lot of gotten a lot better. So, we a lot of times don't use like an actual paint. times don't use like an actual paint. times don't use like an actual paint. » It's it's a solvent base and we can put » It's it's a solvent base and we can put » It's it's a solvent base and we can put a clear finish over top of the paint. So a clear finish over top of the paint. So a clear finish over top of the paint. So we have that extra we have that extra we have that extra » almost like an enamel like uh » almost like an enamel like uh » almost like an enamel like uh » and it's a solvent based product. So and » and it's a solvent based product. So and » and it's a solvent based product. So and then we can spray a clear lacquer over then we can spray a clear lacquer over then we can spray a clear lacquer over the top to protect the color. the top to protect the color. the top to protect the color. » So lacquer then wear off and then that's » So lacquer then wear off and then that's » So lacquer then wear off and then that's at risk. at risk. at risk. » Not like paint does. » Not like paint does. » Not like paint does. » It doesn't much harder finish. » It doesn't much harder finish. » It doesn't much harder finish. » Yeah, » Yeah, » Yeah, » cuz it's solvent. » cuz it's solvent. » cuz it's solvent. » That makes sense. Yeah. I mean that » That makes sense. Yeah. I mean that » That makes sense. Yeah. I mean that furniture you get, you know, from uh furniture you get, you know, from uh furniture you get, you know, from uh assemble yourself like IKEA furniture, assemble yourself like IKEA furniture, assemble yourself like IKEA furniture, » that paint on that pretty good till it » that paint on that pretty good till it » that paint on that pretty good till it chips and that's usually something chips and that's usually something chips and that's usually something hard's hitting it. It's not like your hard's hitting it. It's not like your hard's hitting it. It's not like your fingernails are causing it to fingernails are causing it to fingernails are causing it to » But I mean, you can still if it comes » But I mean, you can still if it comes » But I mean, you can still if it comes off, it's deep. off, it's deep. off, it's deep. » Yeah. Yeah. » Yeah. Yeah. » Yeah. Yeah. » There's a lot. Yeah. You got to build it » There's a lot. Yeah. You got to build it » There's a lot. Yeah. You got to build it up. up. up. » Yeah. It's like they dip them or » Yeah. It's like they dip them or » Yeah. It's like they dip them or something. something. something. » Yeah. I don't know. » Yeah. I don't know. » Yeah. I don't know. » Doesn't even look sprayed. » Doesn't even look sprayed. » Doesn't even look sprayed. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Uh do you have an real life example of » Uh do you have an real life example of » Uh do you have an real life example of someone who went like real cheap and someone who went like real cheap and someone who went like real cheap and regretted it like on prefab or for a regretted it like on prefab or for a regretted it like on prefab or for a specific? specific? specific? » Um cuz I've seen our old house. We had » Um cuz I've seen our old house. We had » Um cuz I've seen our old house. We had some prefab stuff in our bathroom that, some prefab stuff in our bathroom that, some prefab stuff in our bathroom that, you know, started the you know, started the you know, started the » hinges started tearing out of the » hinges started tearing out of the » hinges started tearing out of the particle board or it wasn't plywood. I particle board or it wasn't plywood. I particle board or it wasn't plywood. I don't know what was. don't know what was. don't know what was. » Yeah. Particle board. » Yeah. Particle board. » Yeah. Particle board. » No, not one that comes to my mind. You » No, not one that comes to my mind. You » No, not one that comes to my mind. You know, we do get calls to repair stuff uh know, we do get calls to repair stuff uh know, we do get calls to repair stuff uh like that. And like that. And like that. And right, wrong, or indifferent, a lot of right, wrong, or indifferent, a lot of right, wrong, or indifferent, a lot of times I just deny it. times I just deny it. times I just deny it. » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » Um I don't » Um I don't » Um I don't » It's better to replace than repair in » It's better to replace than repair in » It's better to replace than repair in certain situations. certain situations. certain situations. » Yeah. And I just kind of feel bad. Some » Yeah. And I just kind of feel bad. Some » Yeah. And I just kind of feel bad. Some people are okay with repairs like that. people are okay with repairs like that. people are okay with repairs like that. To me, it doesn't it doesn't like meet To me, it doesn't it doesn't like meet To me, it doesn't it doesn't like meet our quality standards and so I don't our quality standards and so I don't our quality standards and so I don't feel comfortable putting my name on it feel comfortable putting my name on it feel comfortable putting my name on it and doing it. and doing it. and doing it. » Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So, I mean » Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So, I mean » Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So, I mean really your logistics, really your logistics, really your logistics, » you know, an install crew and a crew » you know, an install crew and a crew » you know, an install crew and a crew that's just making stuff, getting work that's just making stuff, getting work that's just making stuff, getting work orders. Yeah. orders. Yeah. orders. Yeah. » Like what's what's like the perfect I'm » Like what's what's like the perfect I'm » Like what's what's like the perfect I'm sure you've thought about it like sure you've thought about it like sure you've thought about it like business is booming. What's the perfect business is booming. What's the perfect business is booming. What's the perfect system for just stuff to be made and go system for just stuff to be made and go system for just stuff to be made and go out? Made to go out, install. Made, go out? Made to go out, install. Made, go out? Made to go out, install. Made, go out, install. out, install. out, install. Um, I don't Um, I don't Um, I don't I don't know if there's a right answer I don't know if there's a right answer I don't know if there's a right answer for that. Uh, you know, ideally, for that. Uh, you know, ideally, for that. Uh, you know, ideally, uh, we have two people in the shop all uh, we have two people in the shop all uh, we have two people in the shop all the time. the time. the time. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um, just flowing cut list and work to » Um, just flowing cut list and work to » Um, just flowing cut list and work to them. Um, you know, because that gets them. Um, you know, because that gets them. Um, you know, because that gets tough, right? When when me and the tough, right? When when me and the tough, right? When when me and the employee get out on site to install a employee get out on site to install a employee get out on site to install a job for a week, job for a week, job for a week, » nobody's making cabinets. » nobody's making cabinets. » nobody's making cabinets. » There's nothing happening back at the » There's nothing happening back at the » There's nothing happening back at the shop, you know. Um, and so that's what shop, you know. Um, and so that's what shop, you know. Um, and so that's what gets tough for us and gets tough for us and gets tough for us and » that gets back to scheduling and » that gets back to scheduling and » that gets back to scheduling and managing and managing and managing and » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. That's so I » Yeah. That's so I » Yeah. That's so I » But there's a lot of trust in getting » But there's a lot of trust in getting » But there's a lot of trust in getting the right person and then is the demand the right person and then is the demand the right person and then is the demand there when you scale up and there when you scale up and there when you scale up and » Right. Uh, you know, and finding that » Right. Uh, you know, and finding that » Right. Uh, you know, and finding that person's not easy. No. Um, person's not easy. No. Um, person's not easy. No. Um, » I would think they're making cuz that » I would think they're making cuz that » I would think they're making cuz that cost you a lot of money if you that cost you a lot of money if you that cost you a lot of money if you ruin. ruin. ruin. » Yeah, materials are expensive, right? » Yeah, materials are expensive, right? » Yeah, materials are expensive, right? Right. And if you don't catch the Right. And if you don't catch the Right. And if you don't catch the mistake until it's done out the door, mistake until it's done out the door, mistake until it's done out the door, we've got doors, we've got boxes, we've we've got doors, we've got boxes, we've we've got doors, we've got boxes, we've got all of it. got all of it. got all of it. » Um, you know, and I » Um, you know, and I » Um, you know, and I » Cabinet making is kind of a niche thing, » Cabinet making is kind of a niche thing, » Cabinet making is kind of a niche thing, right? There's not a lot of experienced right? There's not a lot of experienced right? There's not a lot of experienced cabinet makers that I know of. Yeah. cabinet makers that I know of. Yeah. cabinet makers that I know of. Yeah. » And I mean, they're not knocking on my » And I mean, they're not knocking on my » And I mean, they're not knocking on my door wanting a job. door wanting a job. door wanting a job. » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » So, » So, » So, » there's probably a lot of people that » there's probably a lot of people that » there's probably a lot of people that know how to install prefab stuff. Sure. know how to install prefab stuff. Sure. know how to install prefab stuff. Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. » Yeah. The traditional way nowadays, I » Yeah. The traditional way nowadays, I » Yeah. The traditional way nowadays, I feel like on any contractor, it's like, feel like on any contractor, it's like, feel like on any contractor, it's like, "Yep, we'll throw here's your cabinet "Yep, we'll throw here's your cabinet "Yep, we'll throw here's your cabinet list. We'll throw them up for you." list. We'll throw them up for you." list. We'll throw them up for you." » Mhm. » Mhm. » Mhm. » Uh on new build even. I bet that's » Uh on new build even. I bet that's » Uh on new build even. I bet that's pretty common. How much is new pretty common. How much is new pretty common. How much is new construction verse remodel for you? construction verse remodel for you? construction verse remodel for you? » Uh you know, it goes in waves. Yeah. » Uh you know, it goes in waves. Yeah. » Uh you know, it goes in waves. Yeah. » Um » Um » Um » we're in the middle of finishing up two » we're in the middle of finishing up two » we're in the middle of finishing up two new builds right now and this will make new builds right now and this will make new builds right now and this will make a third or fourth one this year. Um, but a third or fourth one this year. Um, but a third or fourth one this year. Um, but there's been a couple years where I there's been a couple years where I there's been a couple years where I didn't do a single one. didn't do a single one. didn't do a single one. » Um, it was just all residential remodel. » Um, it was just all residential remodel. » Um, it was just all residential remodel. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » So, it comes in waves. It comes and » So, it comes in waves. It comes and » So, it comes in waves. It comes and goes. You know, I don't work with a ton goes. You know, I don't work with a ton goes. You know, I don't work with a ton of builders. Yeah. of builders. Yeah. of builders. Yeah. » I mean, there's a couple of them I do. » I mean, there's a couple of them I do. » I mean, there's a couple of them I do. » And when you're only working with a » And when you're only working with a » And when you're only working with a couple of them and they're only building couple of them and they're only building couple of them and they're only building two houses a year or one every year, two houses a year or one every year, two houses a year or one every year, there's not a lot there. there's not a lot there. there's not a lot there. » I'd assume a lot of new builds are all » I'd assume a lot of new builds are all » I'd assume a lot of new builds are all uh prefab. like majority, you know, uh prefab. like majority, you know, uh prefab. like majority, you know, they've already got a they've already got a they've already got a » not a lot of new builds are custom » not a lot of new builds are custom » not a lot of new builds are custom cabinets, right? cabinets, right? cabinets, right? » Yeah. It's a custom home that takes » Yeah. It's a custom home that takes » Yeah. It's a custom home that takes custom cabinets, not a custom cabinets, not a custom cabinets, not a » Right. » Right. » Right. » Here's our four homes we build. Yeah. » Here's our four homes we build. Yeah. » Here's our four homes we build. Yeah. Pick one Pick one Pick one » and then Yeah. Pick the one you want. » and then Yeah. Pick the one you want. » and then Yeah. Pick the one you want. Yeah. Especially around here, I'm sure. Yeah. Especially around here, I'm sure. Yeah. Especially around here, I'm sure. I'm sure in Witchaw, different areas and I'm sure in Witchaw, different areas and I'm sure in Witchaw, different areas and » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » there's a lot more custom going on. But » there's a lot more custom going on. But » there's a lot more custom going on. But » yeah, it's an interesting » yeah, it's an interesting » yeah, it's an interesting niche. I I think the part I'm always niche. I I think the part I'm always niche. I I think the part I'm always blown away by is just people's ability blown away by is just people's ability blown away by is just people's ability to like look at something and then to like look at something and then to like look at something and then understand the tools to build it. understand the tools to build it. understand the tools to build it. » Um that's like such a lost art. I with » Um that's like such a lost art. I with » Um that's like such a lost art. I with AI, you know, I'm the guy who's with AI, you know, I'm the guy who's with AI, you know, I'm the guy who's sitting there and you were just in my sitting there and you were just in my sitting there and you were just in my office, right? I'm the guy who's like I office, right? I'm the guy who's like I office, right? I'm the guy who's like I just I don't even want to use AutoCAD to just I don't even want to use AutoCAD to just I don't even want to use AutoCAD to 3D print this coffee cup. I just want to 3D print this coffee cup. I just want to 3D print this coffee cup. I just want to figure out how to take a picture of it figure out how to take a picture of it figure out how to take a picture of it and it just does it right. Yeah, and it just does it right. Yeah, and it just does it right. Yeah, » like I'm so automate, automate, automate » like I'm so automate, automate, automate » like I'm so automate, automate, automate » that uh I sit there when I see someone » that uh I sit there when I see someone » that uh I sit there when I see someone that can actually use their hands and that can actually use their hands and that can actually use their hands and their brain their brain their brain » and like make something really nice. » and like make something really nice. » and like make something really nice. » I I don't think that's going away. » I I don't think that's going away. » I I don't think that's going away. I think it's I think it's I think it's » it's less and less, but more desirable. » it's less and less, but more desirable. » it's less and less, but more desirable. » Certainly not worried about AI taking my » Certainly not worried about AI taking my » Certainly not worried about AI taking my job. job. job. » Um and I would say I'm in like the exact » Um and I would say I'm in like the exact » Um and I would say I'm in like the exact opposite of you. opposite of you. opposite of you. » Yeah, I you love absolutely hate being » Yeah, I you love absolutely hate being » Yeah, I you love absolutely hate being on the computer. Like I hate being on on the computer. Like I hate being on on the computer. Like I hate being on the phone. A lot of times I'll just put the phone. A lot of times I'll just put the phone. A lot of times I'll just put my phone down somewhere and not even my phone down somewhere and not even my phone down somewhere and not even look at it all day. You know what I look at it all day. You know what I look at it all day. You know what I mean? Cuz I'm just in the shop and I'm mean? Cuz I'm just in the shop and I'm mean? Cuz I'm just in the shop and I'm working. working. working. » That's where I » That's where I » That's where I » And you're right. I think it is a dying » And you're right. I think it is a dying » And you're right. I think it is a dying » dying art. Yeah. » dying art. Yeah. » dying art. Yeah. » You know, not a lot of kids are » You know, not a lot of kids are » You know, not a lot of kids are interested in interested in interested in » No, » No, » No, » man. I want to be a cabinet maker when I » man. I want to be a cabinet maker when I » man. I want to be a cabinet maker when I grow up. grow up. grow up. » Yeah. And that's an interesting concept » Yeah. And that's an interesting concept » Yeah. And that's an interesting concept too of too of too of » there's not work woodworking at » there's not work woodworking at » there's not work woodworking at the college, right? Or the Jo. They the college, right? Or the Jo. They the college, right? Or the Jo. They don't need they've got welding don't need they've got welding don't need they've got welding mechanics, right? I mean, woodworking. mechanics, right? I mean, woodworking. mechanics, right? I mean, woodworking. » Some of the colleges have, you know, » Some of the colleges have, you know, » Some of the colleges have, you know, Hayes has a program, I think, in Pit Hayes has a program, I think, in Pit Hayes has a program, I think, in Pit State, uh, like a construction science State, uh, like a construction science State, uh, like a construction science and maybe you can dive into some and maybe you can dive into some and maybe you can dive into some pinewood, pinewood, pinewood, » but it probably doesn't need Okay, maybe » but it probably doesn't need Okay, maybe » but it probably doesn't need Okay, maybe it niches down or they have a someone it niches down or they have a someone it niches down or they have a someone teaches a teaches a teaches a » wood shop class. You should teach a wood » wood shop class. You should teach a wood » wood shop class. You should teach a wood shop class at Butler. shop class at Butler. shop class at Butler. » Nah, I'm good. » Nah, I'm good. » Nah, I'm good. » That'd be great. » That'd be great. » That'd be great. » Yeah, I have » Yeah, I have » Yeah, I have » get the next generation of woodworkers » get the next generation of woodworkers » get the next generation of woodworkers coming out. coming out. coming out. Uh that's one of Uh that's one of Uh that's one of » be the next Joe Brown. » be the next Joe Brown. » be the next Joe Brown. » Yeah. Yeah. I had Joe Brown as a » Yeah. Yeah. I had Joe Brown as a » Yeah. Yeah. I had Joe Brown as a teacher. Um teacher. Um teacher. Um » yeah, that's probably not for me. » yeah, that's probably not for me. » yeah, that's probably not for me. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » You know, uh maybe one of the reasons » You know, uh maybe one of the reasons » You know, uh maybe one of the reasons why I don't have a bunch of employees, why I don't have a bunch of employees, why I don't have a bunch of employees, too, is I like to work by myself. too, is I like to work by myself. too, is I like to work by myself. » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » And and that's the kind of industry that » And and that's the kind of industry that » And and that's the kind of industry that can afford that for you. You know, like can afford that for you. You know, like can afford that for you. You know, like technology for you is automating admin technology for you is automating admin technology for you is automating admin and crap you don't want to do. and crap you don't want to do. and crap you don't want to do. » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » Right. » Right. » Right. » Yes. No, I mean there is some technology » Yes. No, I mean there is some technology » Yes. No, I mean there is some technology in the manufacturing side that's in the manufacturing side that's in the manufacturing side that's available. available. available. » Sure. Not that I've dove into it too » Sure. Not that I've dove into it too » Sure. Not that I've dove into it too much, you know, with uh much, you know, with uh much, you know, with uh » building constraints and cost, but yeah, » building constraints and cost, but yeah, » building constraints and cost, but yeah, there's some automation there. there's some automation there. there's some automation there. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » But yeah, the admin side is » But yeah, the admin side is » But yeah, the admin side is » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » not my cup of tea. » not my cup of tea. » not my cup of tea. » Yeah. Yeah. What's the hard worst thing » Yeah. Yeah. What's the hard worst thing » Yeah. Yeah. What's the hard worst thing like fast forward, what was the part you like fast forward, what was the part you like fast forward, what was the part you didn't think you were going to be like, didn't think you were going to be like, didn't think you were going to be like, "This part of owning a business sucks." "This part of owning a business sucks." "This part of owning a business sucks." » The admin side. » The admin side. » The admin side. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yep. Um like I said, I know how to build » Yep. Um like I said, I know how to build » Yep. Um like I said, I know how to build cabinets. I've known how to build cabinets. I've known how to build cabinets. I've known how to build cabinets for a long time. I didn't know cabinets for a long time. I didn't know cabinets for a long time. I didn't know anything about business. anything about business. anything about business. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And uh you learn a lot pretty quick. You » And uh you learn a lot pretty quick. You » And uh you learn a lot pretty quick. You know, that first year the tax bill know, that first year the tax bill know, that first year the tax bill comes. comes. comes. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » You're like, whoa. I remember we were on » You're like, whoa. I remember we were on » You're like, whoa. I remember we were on the phone quite a bit that first year or the phone quite a bit that first year or the phone quite a bit that first year or two and there's not even enough, right? two and there's not even enough, right? two and there's not even enough, right? It's just like It's just like It's just like » even I'm not going to be able to tell » even I'm not going to be able to tell » even I'm not going to be able to tell you 80% of what you need to know. you 80% of what you need to know. you 80% of what you need to know. » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » Doing it multiple times. Like Yeah. » Doing it multiple times. Like Yeah. » Doing it multiple times. Like Yeah. » It's just I still forget. » It's just I still forget. » It's just I still forget. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » 50% of what I'm supposed to do on » 50% of what I'm supposed to do on » 50% of what I'm supposed to do on » Right. You know, and Norris. Amen. » Right. You know, and Norris. Amen. » Right. You know, and Norris. Amen. That's why Norris is in charge of admin That's why Norris is in charge of admin That's why Norris is in charge of admin for us because I honestly don't like for us because I honestly don't like for us because I honestly don't like admin either. I like the customer admin either. I like the customer admin either. I like the customer relationship and building that relationship and building that relationship and building that combination. combination. combination. » I didn't realize how much » I didn't realize how much » I didn't realize how much » it requires. » it requires. » it requires. » Yeah. You know, » Yeah. You know, » Yeah. You know, » um you know, from billing like » um you know, from billing like » um you know, from billing like » you got to sit down and spend some time » you got to sit down and spend some time » you got to sit down and spend some time on billing, right? And you got to pay on billing, right? And you got to pay on billing, right? And you got to pay attention and track all that stuff, you attention and track all that stuff, you attention and track all that stuff, you know, cuz there's some changes know, cuz there's some changes know, cuz there's some changes throughout the way and if you don't throughout the way and if you don't throughout the way and if you don't track that stuff very well, you don't track that stuff very well, you don't track that stuff very well, you don't get paid for it. Baylor from Prayer Pots get paid for it. Baylor from Prayer Pots get paid for it. Baylor from Prayer Pots that was on. He was late to dinner that was on. He was late to dinner that was on. He was late to dinner across the street and heard he was across the street and heard he was across the street and heard he was invoicing and invoicing and invoicing and » and Abby looked at me like » and Abby looked at me like » and Abby looked at me like yeah he hates doing that and then he yeah he hates doing that and then he yeah he hates doing that and then he walked in. I'm like did you get all your walked in. I'm like did you get all your walked in. I'm like did you get all your invoicing done Baylor? And he was just invoicing done Baylor? And he was just invoicing done Baylor? And he was just like no right like no right like no right » it's the worst. And I get that » it's the worst. And I get that » it's the worst. And I get that tedious like sitting down repetitive tedious like sitting down repetitive tedious like sitting down repetitive thing that's just like I have to do it thing that's just like I have to do it thing that's just like I have to do it every month the same thing. Um, every month the same thing. Um, every month the same thing. Um, » you know, if I could just call somebody, » you know, if I could just call somebody, » you know, if I could just call somebody, hey, your cabinets are going to cost X hey, your cabinets are going to cost X hey, your cabinets are going to cost X dollars and when I get done, call them. dollars and when I get done, call them. dollars and when I get done, call them. Hey, this is how much it's going to be. Hey, this is how much it's going to be. Hey, this is how much it's going to be. Send me a check. Oh, that's ideal, Send me a check. Oh, that's ideal, Send me a check. Oh, that's ideal, right? But that's not how it works. right? But that's not how it works. right? But that's not how it works. » No, they want you need the paper trail, » No, they want you need the paper trail, » No, they want you need the paper trail, » right? Right. » right? Right. » right? Right. » Yeah. So, yeah, » Yeah. So, yeah, » Yeah. So, yeah, » I I think there's a lot of opportunity » I I think there's a lot of opportunity » I I think there's a lot of opportunity in the future and technology for um in the future and technology for um in the future and technology for um tradesmen like you that are tradesmen like you that are tradesmen like you that are self-employed that's going to happen to self-employed that's going to happen to self-employed that's going to happen to where, where, where, » you know, I think I I think that's where » you know, I think I I think that's where » you know, I think I I think that's where it should be to be honest. I think you it should be to be honest. I think you it should be to be honest. I think you should be able to call into your own should be able to call into your own should be able to call into your own system and just describe what's going on system and just describe what's going on system and just describe what's going on while you're on the road to the next job while you're on the road to the next job while you're on the road to the next job and it builds out the whole and it builds out the whole and it builds out the whole » that would be awesome » that would be awesome » that would be awesome » proposal and you know like right get on » proposal and you know like right get on » proposal and you know like right get on that Norris. that Norris. that Norris. » That'd be great. Yeah, because that's » That'd be great. Yeah, because that's » That'd be great. Yeah, because that's that's that's that's » that like don't remove the part that's » that like don't remove the part that's » that like don't remove the part that's unique to you, which is the customer unique to you, which is the customer unique to you, which is the customer interaction, the on-site interaction, the on-site interaction, the on-site » understanding, but then it's like that » understanding, but then it's like that » understanding, but then it's like that second brain function we always talk second brain function we always talk second brain function we always talk about like how do you about like how do you about like how do you » how do you automate those details that » how do you automate those details that » how do you automate those details that you've already gathered enough you've already gathered enough you've already gathered enough information? information? information? » Yeah. The unfortunate thing is like » Yeah. The unfortunate thing is like » Yeah. The unfortunate thing is like » you know all that stuff usually happens » you know all that stuff usually happens » you know all that stuff usually happens late nights or weekends or things like late nights or weekends or things like late nights or weekends or things like that, right? Because during the day to that, right? Because during the day to that, right? Because during the day to five I'm working. five I'm working. five I'm working. » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. So that's the part that I need to So that's the part that I need to So that's the part that I need to figure out how to balance better, you figure out how to balance better, you figure out how to balance better, you know. know. know. » Well, you get to a certain size where » Well, you get to a certain size where » Well, you get to a certain size where you can't uh you're just like at that you can't uh you're just like at that you can't uh you're just like at that awkward spot where it's like, well, if I awkward spot where it's like, well, if I awkward spot where it's like, well, if I hire, I go backwards and my boss at hire, I go backwards and my boss at hire, I go backwards and my boss at Interstate Batter is my first real job. Interstate Batter is my first real job. Interstate Batter is my first real job. He'd come in at 4:00 a.m., do admin work He'd come in at 4:00 a.m., do admin work He'd come in at 4:00 a.m., do admin work till we all showed up. till we all showed up. till we all showed up. » Mhm. » Mhm. » Mhm. » And then work all day. » And then work all day. » And then work all day. » I know the feeling. » I know the feeling. » I know the feeling. » And then we'd all leave and he'd still » And then we'd all leave and he'd still » And then we'd all leave and he'd still be there. be there. be there. » Yeah. and he he'd worked till dinner and » Yeah. and he he'd worked till dinner and » Yeah. and he he'd worked till dinner and go in and he was he had a $5 million a go in and he was he had a $5 million a go in and he was he had a $5 million a year very successful company with and at year very successful company with and at year very successful company with and at some point someone basically forced him some point someone basically forced him some point someone basically forced him and took it away from him and he was and took it away from him and he was and took it away from him and he was kind of kind of kind of » miserable right it was like all he knew » miserable right it was like all he knew » miserable right it was like all he knew » and so he had to readjust but he did » and so he had to readjust but he did » and so he had to readjust but he did ultimately it was it was better but ultimately it was it was better but ultimately it was it was better but » he you got to do that for a long time » he you got to do that for a long time » he you got to do that for a long time before » and that's that's what a lot of days » and that's that's what a lot of days » and that's that's what a lot of days look like for me not all days you know look like for me not all days you know look like for me not all days you know but » sure » sure » sure » like this morning I think I Was » like this morning I think I Was » like this morning I think I Was that the shop by 5:15? that the shop by 5:15? that the shop by 5:15? » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um cuz not only do you have to get the » Um cuz not only do you have to get the » Um cuz not only do you have to get the admin work done and do all that admin work done and do all that admin work done and do all that stuff, but you really need to get the stuff, but you really need to get the stuff, but you really need to get the stuff laid out for your employee, right? stuff laid out for your employee, right? stuff laid out for your employee, right? » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » He he's not able to just » He he's not able to just » He he's not able to just » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » look at something and go, right. So, I » look at something and go, right. So, I » look at something and go, right. So, I need to be a few steps ahead of him. need to be a few steps ahead of him. need to be a few steps ahead of him. » On the actual manufacturing side, » On the actual manufacturing side, » On the actual manufacturing side, » right? To to funnel parts to him to so » right? To to funnel parts to him to so » right? To to funnel parts to him to so he has a full day of work. he has a full day of work. he has a full day of work. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And not stopping every 10 minutes and » And not stopping every 10 minutes and » And not stopping every 10 minutes and asking me what we need to do next. you asking me what we need to do next. you asking me what we need to do next. you texted me when Tim Jordan was on the texted me when Tim Jordan was on the texted me when Tim Jordan was on the podcast talking about the 60 hour work podcast talking about the 60 hour work podcast talking about the 60 hour work weeks. Any takeaway weeks. Any takeaway weeks. Any takeaway » from that for you? » from that for you? » from that for you? » Uh any practical? » Uh any practical? » Uh any practical? » Yeah, you know that podcast like uh » Yeah, you know that podcast like uh » Yeah, you know that podcast like uh » hit home close, right? » hit home close, right? » hit home close, right? » The idea of uh what how do you say it? » The idea of uh what how do you say it? » The idea of uh what how do you say it? You know, You know, You know, » he's like the business owner that's » he's like the business owner that's » he's like the business owner that's working 60 hours a week. Yeah. That like working 60 hours a week. Yeah. That like working 60 hours a week. Yeah. That like this is for them to create. this is for them to create. this is for them to create. » Yeah. Yeah. you know, um that's what I » Yeah. Yeah. you know, um that's what I » Yeah. Yeah. you know, um that's what I do. I work 60 hours a week and I'm do. I work 60 hours a week and I'm do. I work 60 hours a week and I'm under the mindset I can do it. I just under the mindset I can do it. I just under the mindset I can do it. I just need to work more need to work more need to work more » and that's not going to last forever, » and that's not going to last forever, » and that's not going to last forever, right? So, we I've got to get better at right? So, we I've got to get better at right? So, we I've got to get better at that. that. that. » Yeah. So, was that moment for you like » Yeah. So, was that moment for you like » Yeah. So, was that moment for you like more of an epiphany like, oh, this is a more of an epiphany like, oh, this is a more of an epiphany like, oh, this is a real thing. real thing. real thing. » I need to change my way of thinking. » I need to change my way of thinking. » I need to change my way of thinking. » Hearing it from somebody else, I'm like, » Hearing it from somebody else, I'm like, » Hearing it from somebody else, I'm like, » okay, I'm not the only one that is stuck » okay, I'm not the only one that is stuck » okay, I'm not the only one that is stuck in this rut and doesn't know what to do in this rut and doesn't know what to do in this rut and doesn't know what to do other than to work more. Yeah. other than to work more. Yeah. other than to work more. Yeah. » And surely it'll get better at the end. » And surely it'll get better at the end. » And surely it'll get better at the end. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Because guess what? It doesn't get » Because guess what? It doesn't get » Because guess what? It doesn't get better at the end. I've been doing it better at the end. I've been doing it better at the end. I've been doing it for six years and I'm still doing it. for six years and I'm still doing it. for six years and I'm still doing it. Right. Right. Right. » So that was refreshing to hear that like » So that was refreshing to hear that like » So that was refreshing to hear that like I'm not the only one and I'm not the I'm not the only one and I'm not the I'm not the only one and I'm not the only one that hasn't figured it out yet. only one that hasn't figured it out yet. only one that hasn't figured it out yet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. » And there's resources to maybe help you » And there's resources to maybe help you » And there's resources to maybe help you figure it out. figure it out. figure it out. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » To have a little bit more freedom, » To have a little bit more freedom, » To have a little bit more freedom, right? Cuz that's right? Cuz that's right? Cuz that's » that was the goal. Like when I took this » that was the goal. Like when I took this » that was the goal. Like when I took this took this on, I'm like, "Oh, you know, took this on, I'm like, "Oh, you know, took this on, I'm like, "Oh, you know, from the outside looking, from the outside looking, from the outside looking, » a business is cool. You can set your own » a business is cool. You can set your own » a business is cool. You can set your own hours. You know, if you need to take off hours. You know, if you need to take off hours. You know, if you need to take off or if you want to go play golf, go for or if you want to go play golf, go for or if you want to go play golf, go for it. it. it. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Oh, that couldn't be farther from the » Oh, that couldn't be farther from the » Oh, that couldn't be farther from the truth, dude. truth, dude. truth, dude. » You know, you see those memes on » You know, you see those memes on » You know, you see those memes on Instagram. Yeah. You set your own hours. Instagram. Yeah. You set your own hours. Instagram. Yeah. You set your own hours. Just pick what 90 hours this week you Just pick what 90 hours this week you Just pick what 90 hours this week you want to work, you know? want to work, you know? want to work, you know? » Yeah. Exactly. » Yeah. Exactly. » Yeah. Exactly. » I'm like, okay. Yeah, cool. » I'm like, okay. Yeah, cool. » I'm like, okay. Yeah, cool. » Um, yeah. So, that is certainly » Um, yeah. So, that is certainly » Um, yeah. So, that is certainly something I need to get better certainly something I need to get better certainly something I need to get better at. at. at. » Yeah. Yeah. That's a good that's a good » Yeah. Yeah. That's a good that's a good » Yeah. Yeah. That's a good that's a good takeaway. And I think like from there, takeaway. And I think like from there, takeaway. And I think like from there, and honestly, dude, you should and I'm and honestly, dude, you should and I'm and honestly, dude, you should and I'm going to as well. And I've got a couple going to as well. And I've got a couple going to as well. And I've got a couple other people going to join Service other people going to join Service other people going to join Service Catalyst. It's 69 bucks a month, Catalyst. It's 69 bucks a month, Catalyst. It's 69 bucks a month, » right? » right? » right? » And they got all those resources. Um » And they got all those resources. Um » And they got all those resources. Um » I mean, surely I can take something away » I mean, surely I can take something away » I mean, surely I can take something away from that. from that. from that. » Exactly. Yeah. You find one hour a week, » Exactly. Yeah. You find one hour a week, » Exactly. Yeah. You find one hour a week, » right, » right, » right, » to get back with some system or » to get back with some system or » to get back with some system or process or different way of thinking. process or different way of thinking. process or different way of thinking. » Yeah. And that was kind of nice, too, » Yeah. And that was kind of nice, too, » Yeah. And that was kind of nice, too, right? Because it sounds like he came right? Because it sounds like he came right? Because it sounds like he came from like a service type business, not from like a service type business, not from like a service type business, not » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » a business that could relate to to what » a business that could relate to to what » a business that could relate to to what I do, right? And so that made me feel I do, right? And so that made me feel I do, right? And so that made me feel like it might be like it might be like it might be » auto detailing floral which yeah window » auto detailing floral which yeah window » auto detailing floral which yeah window ting I think ting I think ting I think » the custom flowers like Walters here and » the custom flowers like Walters here and » the custom flowers like Walters here and then wedding million dollars in wedding then wedding million dollars in wedding then wedding million dollars in wedding flowers that'd be a nightmare like I can flowers that'd be a nightmare like I can flowers that'd be a nightmare like I can imagine the imagine the imagine the » right » right » right » and all the conversations that happen » and all the conversations that happen » and all the conversations that happen around the like a kitchen package. around the like a kitchen package. around the like a kitchen package. » That's what I was thinking. » That's what I was thinking. » That's what I was thinking. » You got to come in design you got to » You got to come in design you got to » You got to come in design you got to pick stuff out quote pick stuff out quote pick stuff out quote » but that's what I think in those kind of » but that's what I think in those kind of » but that's what I think in those kind of programs people get real and I do too. I programs people get real and I do too. I programs people get real and I do too. I I struggle trusting anybody that says I struggle trusting anybody that says I struggle trusting anybody that says they're a business coach or they're they're a business coach or they're they're a business coach or they're » offering this consultation if they've » offering this consultation if they've » offering this consultation if they've not actually done it, but then once you not actually done it, but then once you not actually done it, but then once you see they've done it and then they see they've done it and then they see they've done it and then they » did it well and they still admit it was » did it well and they still admit it was » did it well and they still admit it was freaking hard even when they figured it freaking hard even when they figured it freaking hard even when they figured it out. out. out. » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » Like he admitted very clearly like » Like he admitted very clearly like » Like he admitted very clearly like it was still really hard. it was still really hard. it was still really hard. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um but I think those systems if you can » Um but I think those systems if you can » Um but I think those systems if you can find a program like that and equate it find a program like that and equate it find a program like that and equate it to time to time to time » that's that was my mindset a couple » that's that was my mindset a couple » that's that was my mindset a couple years ago was just like we're going to years ago was just like we're going to years ago was just like we're going to pay for this thing. We've we've spent so pay for this thing. We've we've spent so pay for this thing. We've we've spent so much money at Killer Growth on coaching. much money at Killer Growth on coaching. much money at Killer Growth on coaching. A crazy amount really if you think about A crazy amount really if you think about A crazy amount really if you think about it on programs and learning. Well, I it on programs and learning. Well, I it on programs and learning. Well, I look at that money and just go that's look at that money and just go that's look at that money and just go that's going to save me going to save me going to save me » x amount of hours of » x amount of hours of » x amount of hours of » working late to try and figure this out » working late to try and figure this out » working late to try and figure this out anyway and trying to build this. And if anyway and trying to build this. And if anyway and trying to build this. And if someone already has the road map, someone already has the road map, someone already has the road map, » then I can follow that. So, all right, » then I can follow that. So, all right, » then I can follow that. So, all right, I'm going to hold you to that. We're I'm going to hold you to that. We're I'm going to hold you to that. We're we're both going to join service because we're both going to join service because we're both going to join service because I still have a lot to learn. That's why I still have a lot to learn. That's why I still have a lot to learn. That's why I told Tim, I like Tim, I feel like we I told Tim, I like Tim, I feel like we I told Tim, I like Tim, I feel like we had the same life. You just did a lot had the same life. You just did a lot had the same life. You just did a lot better. Like you were way more better. Like you were way more better. Like you were way more » you figured it out quicker, didn't you? » you figured it out quicker, didn't you? » you figured it out quicker, didn't you? » Oh my gosh. Yeah. » Oh my gosh. Yeah. » Oh my gosh. Yeah. » Yeah. That's good. Um so you have new » Yeah. That's good. Um so you have new » Yeah. That's good. Um so you have new website up. website up. website up. » Yeah. Yeah. Finally. Uh » Yeah. Yeah. Finally. Uh » Yeah. Yeah. Finally. Uh » I just verbally abused you enough to » I just verbally abused you enough to » I just verbally abused you enough to where you were like, "All right, well where you were like, "All right, well where you were like, "All right, well » I was quite reluctant, you know. I'm » I was quite reluctant, you know. I'm » I was quite reluctant, you know. I'm like, Sam, we've got enough work. Why do like, Sam, we've got enough work. Why do like, Sam, we've got enough work. Why do we need this?" we need this?" we need this?" » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Uh we're good. But man, it turned out » Uh we're good. But man, it turned out » Uh we're good. But man, it turned out great. great. great. » Yeah, it looks good. » Yeah, it looks good. » Yeah, it looks good. » You know, uh I thought you guys did » You know, uh I thought you guys did » You know, uh I thought you guys did cool. be good because I literally gave cool. be good because I literally gave cool. be good because I literally gave you no direction almost, you no direction almost, you no direction almost, » you know. I I had a meeting with » you know. I I had a meeting with » you know. I I had a meeting with you and Tyler and uh you and Tyler and uh you and Tyler and uh » and then Brickley next. » and then Brickley next. » and then Brickley next. » Yeah. And and basically Tyler's like, » Yeah. And and basically Tyler's like, » Yeah. And and basically Tyler's like, "What do you want?" I'm like, "I don't "What do you want?" I'm like, "I don't "What do you want?" I'm like, "I don't know. I don't really care." know. I don't really care." know. I don't really care." » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Something to make Sam happy would be » Something to make Sam happy would be » Something to make Sam happy would be great, you know. great, you know. great, you know. » Um and he's like, "Okay." And and just » Um and he's like, "Okay." And and just » Um and he's like, "Okay." And and just kind of ran with it and sent it to me kind of ran with it and sent it to me kind of ran with it and sent it to me and I thought, "I think it's great, you and I thought, "I think it's great, you and I thought, "I think it's great, you know. Um, I think it describes what we know. Um, I think it describes what we know. Um, I think it describes what we do and offers a little bit of insight do and offers a little bit of insight do and offers a little bit of insight and » yeah, » yeah, » yeah, » different stuff. So, yeah, I think it's » different stuff. So, yeah, I think it's » different stuff. So, yeah, I think it's cool. cool. cool. » Yeah. Shows a little bigger menu than » Yeah. Shows a little bigger menu than » Yeah. Shows a little bigger menu than probably people assume you have too, probably people assume you have too, probably people assume you have too, which is nice. That that was kind of the which is nice. That that was kind of the which is nice. That that was kind of the reason I was annoying you was reason I was annoying you was reason I was annoying you was » I think, you know, anytime you can get » I think, you know, anytime you can get » I think, you know, anytime you can get something out there, save time on get something out there, save time on get something out there, save time on communication. So now people can go to communication. So now people can go to communication. So now people can go to your website and be like, "Oh, this is your website and be like, "Oh, this is your website and be like, "Oh, this is kind of how he works." kind of how he works." kind of how he works." » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » These are the things he has. And that » These are the things he has. And that » These are the things he has. And that normally might take 20 minutes of your normally might take 20 minutes of your normally might take 20 minutes of your time. time. time. » Yeah. Yeah. Back of the shop. And also » Yeah. Yeah. Back of the shop. And also » Yeah. Yeah. Back of the shop. And also too, I think the thing that's nice is too, I think the thing that's nice is too, I think the thing that's nice is the uh the uh the uh » the email contact. » the email contact. » the email contact. » Yes. » Yes. » Yes. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Send send me an email. Give me a little » Send send me an email. Give me a little » Send send me an email. Give me a little description what you want. description what you want. description what you want. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » That saves a phone call. Phone calls are » That saves a phone call. Phone calls are » That saves a phone call. Phone calls are distracting during the day. As much as I distracting during the day. As much as I distracting during the day. As much as I hate to say it, you know, when you're in hate to say it, you know, when you're in hate to say it, you know, when you're in the middle of of cutting a bunch of the middle of of cutting a bunch of the middle of of cutting a bunch of stuff, you have stuff, you have stuff, you have » when you're running a saw. » when you're running a saw. » when you're running a saw. » Yeah. You have to stop and take the » Yeah. You have to stop and take the » Yeah. You have to stop and take the call. call. call. » Yeah. How can I help you? » Yeah. How can I help you? » Yeah. How can I help you? » Emails. Okay. I can get to it at the end » Emails. Okay. I can get to it at the end » Emails. Okay. I can get to it at the end of the day when I get into the office of the day when I get into the office of the day when I get into the office and respond that way. So, and respond that way. So, and respond that way. So, » they are way more efficient. I know a » they are way more efficient. I know a » they are way more efficient. I know a lot of people hate emails, but they are lot of people hate emails, but they are lot of people hate emails, but they are way more efficient, way more efficient, way more efficient, » right? » right? » right? » You're not taking 15 minutes and trying » You're not taking 15 minutes and trying » You're not taking 15 minutes and trying to write it down and then to write it down and then to write it down and then » where did I put that? And » where did I put that? And » where did I put that? And » y » y » y » uh especially if there's a forum, but » uh especially if there's a forum, but » uh especially if there's a forum, but no. So, yeah. Anybody listening, uh you no. So, yeah. Anybody listening, uh you no. So, yeah. Anybody listening, uh you have a Facebook page now, too. have a Facebook page now, too. have a Facebook page now, too. » I do. » I do. » I do. » Uh they need to go follow you on » Uh they need to go follow you on » Uh they need to go follow you on Facebook. I noticed you started posting Facebook. I noticed you started posting Facebook. I noticed you started posting on Instagram more. on Instagram more. on Instagram more. » Uh yeah, I finally got back into that. I » Uh yeah, I finally got back into that. I » Uh yeah, I finally got back into that. I kind of took a six month break. It gets kind of took a six month break. It gets kind of took a six month break. It gets a lot of likes whenever you do. People a lot of likes whenever you do. People a lot of likes whenever you do. People love » Yeah, I need to get better at it. I'll » Yeah, I need to get better at it. I'll » Yeah, I need to get better at it. I'll get better at it. You know, I've got a get better at it. You know, I've got a get better at it. You know, I've got a lot of lot of lot of » I've got some photos. I'm not good at » I've got some photos. I'm not good at » I've got some photos. I'm not good at taking photos, dude. taking photos, dude. taking photos, dude. » They look fine. You don't have to be » They look fine. You don't have to be » They look fine. You don't have to be like, honestly, it'd be more trendy and like, honestly, it'd be more trendy and like, honestly, it'd be more trendy and go more viral. If you just kind of go more viral. If you just kind of go more viral. If you just kind of accidentally put your finger over the accidentally put your finger over the accidentally put your finger over the lens every time. If every photo was like lens every time. If every photo was like lens every time. If every photo was like really bad, that probably would really bad, that probably would really bad, that probably would » What I'm saying is I forget to take a » What I'm saying is I forget to take a » What I'm saying is I forget to take a photo of the whole project. photo of the whole project. photo of the whole project. » Before and after. Yeah. Oh, I never » Before and after. Yeah. Oh, I never » Before and after. Yeah. Oh, I never » which is literally the core » which is literally the core » which is literally the core » because I'm kind of We've done so many » because I'm kind of We've done so many » because I'm kind of We've done so many and I get a little bit numb to it now. and I get a little bit numb to it now. and I get a little bit numb to it now. I'm like, "Okay, cool. It's another one I'm like, "Okay, cool. It's another one I'm like, "Okay, cool. It's another one done. It looks great. You don't have done. It looks great. You don't have done. It looks great. You don't have » We got to get on to the next one, you » We got to get on to the next one, you » We got to get on to the next one, you know." know." know." » Um, so I'm bad about taking photos. » Um, so I'm bad about taking photos. » Um, so I'm bad about taking photos. » You need to put that on the customers. » You need to put that on the customers. » You need to put that on the customers. What you need to do say, "Hey, What you need to do say, "Hey, What you need to do say, "Hey, » it' mean a lot if you document this » it' mean a lot if you document this » it' mean a lot if you document this project like before, middle, after." um project like before, middle, after." um project like before, middle, after." um and leave me a review, you know, and leave me a review, you know, and leave me a review, you know, and then send it over to me. Yeah. Um then send it over to me. Yeah. Um then send it over to me. Yeah. Um » and say, "I'll give you a fruit basket » and say, "I'll give you a fruit basket » and say, "I'll give you a fruit basket if you do it or something, you know, if you do it or something, you know, if you do it or something, you know, maybe a little uh maybe a little uh maybe a little uh » I'll make you a cutting board to go." » I'll make you a cutting board to go." » I'll make you a cutting board to go." » There you go. Hey, if you document this » There you go. Hey, if you document this » There you go. Hey, if you document this for me, for me, for me, » cuz I don't have time, but if you » cuz I don't have time, but if you » cuz I don't have time, but if you document this, that's a good idea. document this, that's a good idea. document this, that's a good idea. » There you go. » There you go. » There you go. » Cutting board on there. » Cutting board on there. » Cutting board on there. » You like making those with all that time » You like making those with all that time » You like making those with all that time you have, you have, you have, » right? Yeah. Yeah. » right? Yeah. Yeah. » right? Yeah. Yeah. » Yeah. That's good. Uh, so yeah, » Yeah. That's good. Uh, so yeah, » Yeah. That's good. Uh, so yeah, Facebook, Instagram, and they can fill Facebook, Instagram, and they can fill Facebook, Instagram, and they can fill out a form on kogan'swoodshop.com, out a form on kogan'swoodshop.com, out a form on kogan'swoodshop.com, » which is awesome. » which is awesome. » which is awesome. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Good. Any final words? » Good. Any final words? » Good. Any final words? » Uh, great. » Uh, great. » Uh, great. » No, I don't have much. » No, I don't have much. » No, I don't have much. » I've got a lot to think about on wood » I've got a lot to think about on wood » I've got a lot to think about on wood and uh I I so badly want to say what and uh I I so badly want to say what and uh I I so badly want to say what Haley wanted to say Haley wanted to say Haley wanted to say » and promised I wanted. So, you can just » and promised I wanted. So, you can just » and promised I wanted. So, you can just call her about what her questions were. call her about what her questions were. call her about what her questions were. » Okay, I'll do that. Yeah, call her » Okay, I'll do that. Yeah, call her » Okay, I'll do that. Yeah, call her later. So, appreciate you, man. Thanks later. So, appreciate you, man. Thanks later. So, appreciate you, man. Thanks for coming on. next. But ---