Do Good Work: Building a Purpose-Driven Tech Company for Nonprofits with Ted Kriwiel | Ep 49

What's up guys? Sam McVey here with What's up guys? Sam McVey here with Killer Growth and today I have Ted Killer Growth and today I have Ted Killer Growth and today I have Ted Crewwell with Honeystack. Crewwell with Honeystack. Crewwell with Honeystack. Agency and founder of Ad Oaks. This is going to and founder of Ad Oaks. This is going to and founder of Ad Oaks. This is going to be so hard. be so hard. be so hard. » You can try it. » You can try it. » You can try it. » I'm just going to The intro is the » I'm just going to The intro is the » I'm just going to The intro is the hardest part of the whole podcast and I hardest part of the whole podcast and I hardest part of the whole podcast and I rarely get them right. Like they are You rarely get them right. Like they are You rarely get them right. Like they are You could practice them. could practice them. could practice them. » Yeah, that's true. Should I put some » Yeah, that's true. Should I put some » Yeah, that's true. Should I put some thought into the episode? thought into the episode? thought into the episode? » No, no, no. I wouldn't do that. » No, no, no. I wouldn't do that. » No, no, no. I wouldn't do that. » Do them. » Do them. » Do them. » It ruin the vibe. » It ruin the vibe. » It ruin the vibe. » Yeah, that's that's fair. Uh, Teddy » Yeah, that's that's fair. Uh, Teddy » Yeah, that's that's fair. Uh, Teddy Crewell is my Crewell is my Crewell is my » That feels more natural. You can't call » That feels more natural. You can't call » That feels more natural. You can't call me Ted, but you go by Ted everywhere me Ted, but you go by Ted everywhere me Ted, but you go by Ted everywhere else. I was trying to honor that. else. I was trying to honor that. else. I was trying to honor that. » All right. » All right. » All right. » You know who I am. » You know who I am. » You know who I am. » Ted Word. » Uh, so I do have a a weird first » Uh, so I do have a a weird first question for you, but I'm going to first question for you, but I'm going to first question for you, but I'm going to first go into our backstory cuz I've been go into our backstory cuz I've been go into our backstory cuz I've been excited to have you on. I don't really excited to have you on. I don't really excited to have you on. I don't really care what you're doing in life. I'm just care what you're doing in life. I'm just care what you're doing in life. I'm just excited. excited. excited. » We'll get to it. I've heard this is 3 » We'll get to it. I've heard this is 3 » We'll get to it. I've heard this is 3 hours long. We'll have plenty of time. hours long. We'll have plenty of time. hours long. We'll have plenty of time. We can cover all the things. excited to We can cover all the things. excited to We can cover all the things. excited to have an excuse to sit for an hour with have an excuse to sit for an hour with have an excuse to sit for an hour with you and talk. Uh Teddy and I go way back you and talk. Uh Teddy and I go way back you and talk. Uh Teddy and I go way back uh childhood best friends. What is your uh childhood best friends. What is your uh childhood best friends. What is your first memory you have of me? And I will first memory you have of me? And I will first memory you have of me? And I will tell you my first memory of you and I'm tell you my first memory of you and I'm tell you my first memory of you and I'm really struggling with it to be honest. really struggling with it to be honest. really struggling with it to be honest. Like you're still mad about it. Like you're still mad about it. Like you're still mad about it. » No, I'm struggling with if it is or not. » No, I'm struggling with if it is or not. » No, I'm struggling with if it is or not. » I'm still mad. You're still mad about » I'm still mad. You're still mad about » I'm still mad. You're still mad about the first time you met me. I have I mean the first time you met me. I have I mean the first time you met me. I have I mean so much of my memories of you are from so much of my memories of you are from so much of my memories of you are from like those early formative memories are like those early formative memories are like those early formative memories are like the house on Denver. like the house on Denver. like the house on Denver. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Was your guys's house on Denver? » Was your guys's house on Denver? » Was your guys's house on Denver? » Uh cuz we were at a corner. » Uh cuz we were at a corner. » Uh cuz we were at a corner. » Yes. We were on Denver. We were a corner » Yes. We were on Denver. We were a corner » Yes. We were on Denver. We were a corner lot on Denver. You were a corner lot two lot on Denver. You were a corner lot two lot on Denver. You were a corner lot two blocks down on Denver. blocks down on Denver. blocks down on Denver. » Yeah. So like I think walking to the » Yeah. So like I think walking to the » Yeah. So like I think walking to the edge of the street, not being able to edge of the street, not being able to edge of the street, not being able to cross the street cross the street cross the street » and talking to each other over that » and talking to each other over that » and talking to each other over that street. I remember that just like really street. I remember that just like really street. I remember that just like really vividly. Um because I mean we would have vividly. Um because I mean we would have vividly. Um because I mean we would have been like five maybe four, five, been like five maybe four, five, been like five maybe four, five, something in that range. something in that range. something in that range. » And then I remember you having an apple » And then I remember you having an apple » And then I remember you having an apple tree in your front yard. I tree in your front yard. I tree in your front yard. I » remember doing a lot of climbing on that » remember doing a lot of climbing on that » remember doing a lot of climbing on that and I remember that you guys could pee and I remember that you guys could pee and I remember that you guys could pee outside » now. And you always talk about » now. And you always talk about » now. And you always talk about » I just moved. » I just moved. » I just moved. » You always talk about that, but I'm like » You always talk about that, but I'm like » You always talk about that, but I'm like was that in Derby or you think that was that in Derby or you think that was that in Derby or you think that was on Denver? on Denver? on Denver? » Oh, one street away from Main Street. » Oh, one street away from Main Street. » Oh, one street away from Main Street. Yeah. Or from Central. Yeah. One block Yeah. Or from Central. Yeah. One block Yeah. Or from Central. Yeah. One block away from Central. You guys were walking away from Central. You guys were walking away from Central. You guys were walking back » like a block from the apple market or » like a block from the apple market or » like a block from the apple market or whatever the whatever the whatever the » like on the way to the grocery store. » like on the way to the grocery store. » like on the way to the grocery store. Yeah, there's some Mc Boys out there. Yeah, there's some Mc Boys out there. Yeah, there's some Mc Boys out there. » They're walking out the grocery bag and » They're walking out the grocery bag and » They're walking out the grocery bag and they could see us taking a whiz. they could see us taking a whiz. they could see us taking a whiz. » I remember that because you guys also » I remember that because you guys also » I remember that because you guys also did it at our house and I just remember did it at our house and I just remember did it at our house and I just remember like being like, "Wo, this is" and I like being like, "Wo, this is" and I like being like, "Wo, this is" and I remember asking my mom about it and she remember asking my mom about it and she remember asking my mom about it and she was like, "Absolutely not. You cannot was like, "Absolutely not. You cannot was like, "Absolutely not. You cannot pee outside." And I was like, "The McVys pee outside." And I was like, "The McVys pee outside." And I was like, "The McVys are doing it." And um I just remember are doing it." And um I just remember are doing it." And um I just remember that was just and I think I think that was just and I think I think that was just and I think I think that was like pointing to like you guys were was like pointing to like you guys were was like pointing to like you guys were country » boys like it was coming eventually like » boys like it was coming eventually like » boys like it was coming eventually like you were going to move you were going to move you were going to move » to the out there a little bit. That's » to the out there a little bit. That's » to the out there a little bit. That's remember that urine in our remember that urine in our remember that urine in our » Yeah, there's a lot of stories about » Yeah, there's a lot of stories about » Yeah, there's a lot of stories about urine. Yeah, for sure. I think the other urine. Yeah, for sure. I think the other urine. Yeah, for sure. I think the other story, this one's kind of a sad one, but story, this one's kind of a sad one, but story, this one's kind of a sad one, but it's always been endearing to me. it's always been endearing to me. it's always been endearing to me. » You had a slingshot » You had a slingshot » You had a slingshot » and you killed a bird and you were so » and you killed a bird and you were so » and you killed a bird and you were so sad. Oh, yeah. That was in derby. sad. Oh, yeah. That was in derby. sad. Oh, yeah. That was in derby. » That was in derby. » That was in derby. » That was in derby. » In Denver. » In Denver. » In Denver. » All right. Well, I mix I mixed the » All right. Well, I mix I mixed the » All right. Well, I mix I mixed the timelines. I was five. Okay. I don't I timelines. I was five. Okay. I don't I timelines. I was five. Okay. I don't I wasn't taking wasn't taking wasn't taking » a lot happened between like 4 to, you » a lot happened between like 4 to, you » a lot happened between like 4 to, you know, 10 years old. know, 10 years old. know, 10 years old. » I really thought » I really thought » I really thought » between Denver and Derby, right? We had » between Denver and Derby, right? We had » between Denver and Derby, right? We had a lot of experience. a lot of experience. a lot of experience. » I thought that was on Denver. I » I thought that was on Denver. I » I thought that was on Denver. I remember the apple tree. I had I've remember the apple tree. I had I've remember the apple tree. I had I've always pictured it on Denver cuz it always pictured it on Denver cuz it always pictured it on Denver cuz it wasn't I wasn't there. It was just wasn't I wasn't there. It was just wasn't I wasn't there. It was just relayed to me. So, relayed to me. So, relayed to me. So, » right. » right. » right. » I didn't witness the murder. No, I » I didn't witness the murder. No, I » I didn't witness the murder. No, I remember I remember that moment because remember I remember that moment because remember I remember that moment because it was the first thing I had ever killed it was the first thing I had ever killed it was the first thing I had ever killed and it was in Derby and obviously I I and it was in Derby and obviously I I and it was in Derby and obviously I I don't even think I was 10 yet or maybe I don't even think I was 10 yet or maybe I don't even think I was 10 yet or maybe I just turned 10 and just had that just turned 10 and just had that just turned 10 and just had that birthday party, the famous birthday party, the famous birthday party, the famous birthday party, but the bird I hit the bird and party, but the bird I hit the bird and party, but the bird I hit the bird and the bird just goes like this and its the bird just goes like this and its the bird just goes like this and its feet stayed connected to the branch and feet stayed connected to the branch and feet stayed connected to the branch and it just it just it just » just swung till it came to a still » just swung till it came to a still » just swung till it came to a still » and that I can still see that. so » and that I can still see that. so » and that I can still see that. so vividly in my mind and you know that vividly in my mind and you know that vividly in my mind and you know that moment you're like all hyped up you're moment you're like all hyped up you're moment you're like all hyped up you're like a boy with a and then you find out like a boy with a and then you find out like a boy with a and then you find out what kind of boy you really are what kind of boy you really are what kind of boy you really are » I was not this everything like yeah you » I was not this everything like yeah you » I was not this everything like yeah you » what's your name of your company like » what's your name of your company like » what's your name of your company like Killer Growth I was like I don't I think Killer Growth I was like I don't I think Killer Growth I was like I don't I think you're going against the grain man I you're going against the grain man I you're going against the grain man I don't think that's you don't think that's you don't think that's you » none of it lines » none of it lines » none of it lines » it's like lover is what you are » it's like lover is what you are » it's like lover is what you are » you're just so kind » you're just so kind » you're just so kind trapping actually and that fit more my trapping actually and that fit more my trapping actually and that fit more my personality » yeah I started building traps out there » yeah I started building traps out there » yeah I started building traps out there and caught a possome or two. and caught a possome or two. and caught a possome or two. » Uh but yeah, that's amazing. So you're » Uh but yeah, that's amazing. So you're » Uh but yeah, that's amazing. So you're in Okay, so my I I've been debating I in Okay, so my I I've been debating I in Okay, so my I I've been debating I think my first memory is at the church. think my first memory is at the church. think my first memory is at the church. » I have lots of memories » I have lots of memories » I have lots of memories » at a Sunday school at the Topeka » at a Sunday school at the Topeka » at a Sunday school at the Topeka building. building. building. » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » I think might be the Denver building » I think might be the Denver building » I think might be the Denver building like the like the like the » the apartment building that we lived in. » the apartment building that we lived in. » the apartment building that we lived in. » Yeah. Yeah. Our first apartment » Yeah. Yeah. Our first apartment » Yeah. Yeah. Our first apartment » together. I think you might have lived » together. I think you might have lived » together. I think you might have lived somewhere else. somewhere else. somewhere else. » Okay. But as when we were like in our » Okay. But as when we were like in our » Okay. But as when we were like in our 20s and Yeah. We weren't It's funny cuz 20s and Yeah. We weren't It's funny cuz 20s and Yeah. We weren't It's funny cuz you're just like the building you're just like the building you're just like the building » and I'm like yeahbody yeah I » and I'm like yeahbody yeah I » and I'm like yeahbody yeah I know the building. know the building. know the building. » So there's this apartment building that » So there's this apartment building that » So there's this apartment building that pretty much everyone we know lived in at pretty much everyone we know lived in at pretty much everyone we know lived in at some point uh in this region. some point uh in this region. some point uh in this region. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » That's an exaggeration. » That's an exaggeration. » That's an exaggeration. » I have lots of memories there. » I have lots of memories there. » I have lots of memories there. » Big time. Oh yeah. Yeah. Lots of » Big time. Oh yeah. Yeah. Lots of » Big time. Oh yeah. Yeah. Lots of memories. memories. memories. » Okay. But sorry. But yeah if it was » Okay. But sorry. But yeah if it was » Okay. But sorry. But yeah if it was Denver or when we went to church at Denver or when we went to church at Denver or when we went to church at Topeka cuz I have a couple like memories Topeka cuz I have a couple like memories Topeka cuz I have a couple like memories in that sanctuary and I don't think we in that sanctuary and I don't think we in that sanctuary and I don't think we lived at Denver when we went to church lived at Denver when we went to church lived at Denver when we went to church there. there. there. » I think we came to that after. So that » I think we came to that after. So that » I think we came to that after. So that's the where my brain's like I need that's the where my brain's like I need that's the where my brain's like I need to ask my mom. to ask my mom. to ask my mom. » I'll find out that time. » I'll find out that time. » I'll find out that time. » Don't remember anything. It doesn't » Don't remember anything. It doesn't » Don't remember anything. It doesn't really matter. really matter. really matter. » My parents don't remember anything. » My parents don't remember anything. » My parents don't remember anything. » We should have been taking notes, man. » We should have been taking notes, man. » We should have been taking notes, man. » Correction. You can't remember anything. » Correction. You can't remember anything. » Correction. You can't remember anything. » I'm shocked. » I'm shocked. » I'm shocked. » I'm shocked you remember everything you » I'm shocked you remember everything you » I'm shocked you remember everything you just said. It's impressive. just said. It's impressive. just said. It's impressive. » I'm not known for my memory. » I'm not known for my memory. » I'm not known for my memory. » All right, let's let's buckle up. Uh so » All right, let's let's buckle up. Uh so » All right, let's let's buckle up. Uh so we're we're we're » Wait, what's your memory of me? » Wait, what's your memory of me? » Wait, what's your memory of me? » I just said at the church. I forgot. But what were we doing at the But what were we doing at the church? church? church? » I just » I just » I just memories of me like tying my shoe, memories of me like tying my shoe, memories of me like tying my shoe, playing with like Jamie, that big tall playing with like Jamie, that big tall playing with like Jamie, that big tall guy, Copelan, Micah. guy, Copelan, Micah. guy, Copelan, Micah. » Can we say names here on the show? » Can we say names here on the show? » Can we say names here on the show? » Yeah, you can say whatever you want. All » Yeah, you can say whatever you want. All » Yeah, you can say whatever you want. All right. You're not going to bleep it out right. You're not going to bleep it out right. You're not going to bleep it out there? there? there? » No. » No. » No. » Beep. » Beep. » Beep. » Uh I don't think their names are » Uh I don't think their names are » Uh I don't think their names are trademarked. trademarked. trademarked. » Yeah, I think it's » Yeah, I think it's » Yeah, I think it's » They might not want to do associated » They might not want to do associated » They might not want to do associated though. though. though. » Yeah, that's fair. I don't even know. » Yeah, that's fair. I don't even know. » Yeah, that's fair. I don't even know. You know, You know, You know, » I remember Yeah. Jamie Copeland. I » I remember Yeah. Jamie Copeland. I » I remember Yeah. Jamie Copeland. I remember being stunned because Jamie remember being stunned because Jamie remember being stunned because Jamie Copelan was taller than Luke Beal, but Copelan was taller than Luke Beal, but Copelan was taller than Luke Beal, but Luke Beal was older than Jamie Copeland. Luke Beal was older than Jamie Copeland. Luke Beal was older than Jamie Copeland. And I just could not compete. Just was And I just could not compete. Just was And I just could not compete. Just was like, like, like, » "How did this happen? How what's going » "How did this happen? How what's going » "How did this happen? How what's going on?" So, I remember that. I remember on?" So, I remember that. I remember on?" So, I remember that. I remember chasing Savannah Beal in between like chasing Savannah Beal in between like chasing Savannah Beal in between like after the service and going and hiding after the service and going and hiding after the service and going and hiding under um under um under um » the tables and stuff. I remember like » the tables and stuff. I remember like » the tables and stuff. I remember like playing games playing games playing games » playing games like that when you're five » playing games like that when you're five » playing games like that when you're five or six like running around like or six like running around like or six like running around like » I think that 30 minutes after church » I think that 30 minutes after church » I think that 30 minutes after church Topeka building like the landing and Topeka building like the landing and Topeka building like the landing and steps like I have a bunch of pictures of steps like I have a bunch of pictures of steps like I have a bunch of pictures of just goofing off out there like not like just goofing off out there like not like just goofing off out there like not like vivid memories. I just remember like vivid memories. I just remember like vivid memories. I just remember like church would get out and everybody would church would get out and everybody would church would get out and everybody would just hang out there. just hang out there. just hang out there. » That was the best time. » That was the best time. » That was the best time. » Which was Yeah. No, those were great » Which was Yeah. No, those were great » Which was Yeah. No, those were great times. And then walking across the times. And then walking across the times. And then walking across the street obviously those were the core street obviously those were the core street obviously those were the core memories. memories. memories. » You playing basketball at the middle » You playing basketball at the middle » You playing basketball at the middle school? school? school? » Yes. watching our dad play basketball » Yes. watching our dad play basketball » Yes. watching our dad play basketball there. Man, that was there. Man, that was there. Man, that was » I I don't remember that very well. Um, » I I don't remember that very well. Um, » I I don't remember that very well. Um, watching them play and not playing. You watching them play and not playing. You watching them play and not playing. You have a lot of memories of that I have a lot of memories of that I have a lot of memories of that I don't. But I also didn't like play don't. But I also didn't like play don't. But I also didn't like play sports till later. So, I don't think I sports till later. So, I don't think I sports till later. So, I don't think I was like really into basketball. I'm was like really into basketball. I'm was like really into basketball. I'm sure I was like digging a hole and you sure I was like digging a hole and you sure I was like digging a hole and you were actually watching. were actually watching. were actually watching. » I kind of relate to that party. » I kind of relate to that party. » I kind of relate to that party. » Yeah. I remember thinking your dad and » Yeah. I remember thinking your dad and » Yeah. I remember thinking your dad and my dad just like walked on water just my dad just like walked on water just my dad just like walked on water just among men. among men. among men. » Yeah. I didn't really touch basketball » Yeah. I didn't really touch basketball » Yeah. I didn't really touch basketball till like I think fifth or sixth grade. till like I think fifth or sixth grade. till like I think fifth or sixth grade. Like I didn't play before that when we Like I didn't play before that when we Like I didn't play before that when we were first here in Aldredo. So I didn't were first here in Aldredo. So I didn't were first here in Aldredo. So I didn't I remember my dad used to go play all I remember my dad used to go play all I remember my dad used to go play all the time and I didn't really care. I the time and I didn't really care. I the time and I didn't really care. I don't remember paying attention. don't remember paying attention. don't remember paying attention. » How did you get so good? » How did you get so good? » How did you get so good? » How did you get so good? » How did you get so good? » How did you get so good? » Real hard. Just got I had nothing else » Real hard. Just got I had nothing else » Real hard. Just got I had nothing else to do. to do. to do. » You just flipped a switch in middle » You just flipped a switch in middle » You just flipped a switch in middle school. school. school. » All my friends played. » All my friends played. » All my friends played. » Was it middle school? » Was it middle school? » Was it middle school? » Yeah. Yeah. Sixth grade. First league. » Yeah. Yeah. Sixth grade. First league. » Yeah. Yeah. Sixth grade. First league. Yeah. It's a good time. Oh, it's because Yeah. It's a good time. Oh, it's because Yeah. It's a good time. Oh, it's because of you and Andrews and all my friends. of you and Andrews and all my friends. of you and Andrews and all my friends. » That's what we Yeah. If you want to be a » That's what we Yeah. If you want to be a » That's what we Yeah. If you want to be a friend, if I want to be your friend, I friend, if I want to be your friend, I friend, if I want to be your friend, I had to play ball. had to play ball. had to play ball. » Gordy Park. » Gordy Park. » Gordy Park. » So, I I joined the club. Peer pressure. » So, I I joined the club. Peer pressure. » So, I I joined the club. Peer pressure. That's why. That's why. That's why. » So, what is this podcast about? » So, what is this podcast about? » So, what is this podcast about? » I don't know yet. I'm still deciding. » I don't know yet. I'm still deciding. » I don't know yet. I'm still deciding. » And that's it. » And that's it. » And that's it. » We did good. That was only 8 minutes and » We did good. That was only 8 minutes and » We did good. That was only 8 minutes and 40 seconds. I thought that was going to 40 seconds. I thought that was going to 40 seconds. I thought that was going to turn into 20 minutes and we were going turn into 20 minutes and we were going turn into 20 minutes and we were going to be like, "Oh god, we have a lot to to be like, "Oh god, we have a lot to to be like, "Oh god, we have a lot to cover." But here we go. Now we're here. cover." But here we go. Now we're here. cover." But here we go. Now we're here. » Okay. Teddy, » Okay. Teddy, » Okay. Teddy, honey stack, eight oaks, honey stack, eight oaks, honey stack, eight oaks, and everything before. and everything before. and everything before. » Okay, » Okay, » Okay, » I reversed that timeline. I could have » I reversed that timeline. I could have » I reversed that timeline. I could have started with started with started with » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » Teddy woke up. He was awake. » Teddy woke up. He was awake. » Teddy woke up. He was awake. » I was awake. » I was awake. » I was awake. » He was alive. » He was alive. » He was alive. » I became » I became » I became » He became And then fast forward. I think » He became And then fast forward. I think » He became And then fast forward. I think it'd be fun to talk about Teddy after it'd be fun to talk about Teddy after it'd be fun to talk about Teddy after high school. Um what he went after to high school. Um what he went after to high school. Um what he went after to the Adoke nonprofit, uh all building up the Adoke nonprofit, uh all building up the Adoke nonprofit, uh all building up to Honey Stack and then the technology to Honey Stack and then the technology to Honey Stack and then the technology in between. and then I'll interrupt you. in between. and then I'll interrupt you. in between. and then I'll interrupt you. But I think that would be great for But I think that would be great for But I think that would be great for everyone to hear that journey to Honey everyone to hear that journey to Honey everyone to hear that journey to Honey Stack. Stack. Stack. All right. So, Teddy after high school. All right. So, Teddy after high school. All right. So, Teddy after high school. Some of my better versions, I'll say Some of my better versions, I'll say Some of my better versions, I'll say after high school of Teddy's as they go. after high school of Teddy's as they go. after high school of Teddy's as they go. I think I I think I I think I I went to college after high school. I went to college after high school. I went to college after high school. There you go. Went to Witch. There you go. Went to Witch. There you go. Went to Witch. » I think relaxing voice by the way. » I think relaxing voice by the way. » I think relaxing voice by the way. » I know. I know. He keeps » I know. I know. He keeps » I know. I know. He keeps » If you ever need a new host, » If you ever need a new host, » If you ever need a new host, It's it's it's really funny though cuz It's it's it's really funny though cuz It's it's it's really funny though cuz he kind of goes into this almost like he kind of goes into this almost like he kind of goes into this almost like this weird like creepy this weird like creepy this weird like creepy » thing that is so not his normal where » thing that is so not his normal where » thing that is so not his normal where he's just like Yeah. So after can we could you actually could you like can we could you actually could you like sit down? I like that you're describing sit down? I like that you're describing sit down? I like that you're describing me better than my childhood best friend. me better than my childhood best friend. me better than my childhood best friend. » Uh no that's great. Um so I started I » Uh no that's great. Um so I started I » Uh no that's great. Um so I started I went to I went to college. I was I I went to I went to college. I was I I went to I went to college. I was I I think just in general I was a very think just in general I was a very think just in general I was a very serious kid. I was very serious. I was I serious kid. I was very serious. I was I serious kid. I was very serious. I was I wanted to be an adult for most of my wanted to be an adult for most of my wanted to be an adult for most of my childhood. I was trying to grow up very childhood. I was trying to grow up very childhood. I was trying to grow up very fast. So even when I went to college, I fast. So even when I went to college, I fast. So even when I went to college, I immediately was like, I'm going here immediately was like, I'm going here immediately was like, I'm going here because um um um I feel culturally responsible too. Like I feel culturally responsible too. Like I feel culturally responsible too. Like there was a lot of pressure among my there was a lot of pressure among my there was a lot of pressure among my peers and my parents to to go to peers and my parents to to go to peers and my parents to to go to college, I think. And I I didn't mind college, I think. And I I didn't mind college, I think. And I I didn't mind going to college like I didn't mind going to college like I didn't mind going to college like I didn't mind academics, but I also was like this is a academics, but I also was like this is a academics, but I also was like this is a waste of my time. Like I really just had waste of my time. Like I really just had waste of my time. Like I really just had this of like I need to be I really this of like I need to be I really this of like I need to be I really wanted to just start companies like that wanted to just start companies like that wanted to just start companies like that was so I studied entrepreneurship at was so I studied entrepreneurship at was so I studied entrepreneurship at which I state and even that I'm jumping which I state and even that I'm jumping which I state and even that I'm jumping to it like I actually didn't really know to it like I actually didn't really know to it like I actually didn't really know particularly what I wanted. I I took one particularly what I wanted. I I took one particularly what I wanted. I I took one geology class my freshman year and I was geology class my freshman year and I was geology class my freshman year and I was I was like and it was about volcanoes I was like and it was about volcanoes I was like and it was about volcanoes and tectonic plates and like weather and tectonic plates and like weather and tectonic plates and like weather patterns and D. It was like about It was patterns and D. It was like about It was patterns and D. It was like about It was so cool. And I I even took the class so cool. And I I even took the class so cool. And I I even took the class thinking it was uh geology. I thought in thinking it was uh geology. I thought in thinking it was uh geology. I thought in my head it was astronomy. Like that's my head it was astronomy. Like that's my head it was astronomy. Like that's how little I knew. That's how little I how little I knew. That's how little I how little I knew. That's how little I knew. I was like I got in there I was knew. I was like I got in there I was knew. I was like I got in there I was like planets baby. Solar systems. Let's like planets baby. Solar systems. Let's like planets baby. Solar systems. Let's go. Pluto's a planet. That kind of go. Pluto's a planet. That kind of go. Pluto's a planet. That kind of thing. And it was about like rocks and thing. And it was about like rocks and thing. And it was about like rocks and dirt. Like it was your advisor. dirt. Like it was your advisor. dirt. Like it was your advisor. » I don't know. And and this is the other » I don't know. And and this is the other » I don't know. And and this is the other thing too. Like I Yeah, it was it was so thing too. Like I Yeah, it was it was so thing too. Like I Yeah, it was it was so silly. Um I loved it. This professor silly. Um I loved it. This professor silly. Um I loved it. This professor blew my mind and I was like, I want to blew my mind and I was like, I want to blew my mind and I was like, I want to study geology. So, I changed my major to study geology. So, I changed my major to study geology. So, I changed my major to geology for a semester. And then I went geology for a semester. And then I went geology for a semester. And then I went thinking about volcanoes and like thinking about volcanoes and like thinking about volcanoes and like tectonic plates. And the first class was tectonic plates. And the first class was tectonic plates. And the first class was an entire semester like and it was like an entire semester like and it was like an entire semester like and it was like multiple there was like labs included multiple there was like labs included multiple there was like labs included where we looked at rocks like in a shelf where we looked at rocks like in a shelf where we looked at rocks like in a shelf of rocks which for those of you that of rocks which for those of you that of rocks which for those of you that don't know that is what geology is like don't know that is what geology is like don't know that is what geology is like I didn't know it until I got in. like I didn't know it until I got in. like I didn't know it until I got in. So, I spent a whole year doing geology, So, I spent a whole year doing geology, So, I spent a whole year doing geology, so I know some stuff so I know some stuff so I know some stuff » um about the uh » um about the uh » um about the uh » I don't know that much about » I don't know that much about » I don't know that much about » This is like someone who says they know » This is like someone who says they know » This is like someone who says they know Spanish. Yeah, I took like four years of Spanish. Yeah, I took like four years of Spanish. Yeah, I took like four years of Spanish. Could you say something? Spanish. Could you say something? Spanish. Could you say something? » No, maybe later. Uh so, so I did um I » No, maybe later. Uh so, so I did um I » No, maybe later. Uh so, so I did um I didn't know particularly what I wanted didn't know particularly what I wanted didn't know particularly what I wanted to do, but I wasn't very serious as a to do, but I wasn't very serious as a to do, but I wasn't very serious as a student, I don't think. Um I knew I student, I don't think. Um I knew I student, I don't think. Um I knew I wanted to start companies, so I went to wanted to start companies, so I went to wanted to start companies, so I went to entrepreneurship and I studied on Witch entrepreneurship and I studied on Witch entrepreneurship and I studied on Witch State has one of the few State has one of the few State has one of the few entrepreneurship programs in the entrepreneurship programs in the entrepreneurship programs in the country. Like it's country. Like it's country. Like it's » a weird thing to try and study at » a weird thing to try and study at » a weird thing to try and study at school. school. school. » Like it's it's actually very » Like it's it's actually very » Like it's it's actually very counterintuitive to think that you could counterintuitive to think that you could counterintuitive to think that you could teach entrepreneurship in a book or like teach entrepreneurship in a book or like teach entrepreneurship in a book or like from a professor. from a professor. from a professor. » And even our some of our best professors » And even our some of our best professors » And even our some of our best professors made that clear as they were talking. made that clear as they were talking. made that clear as they were talking. They're like, you actually can't really They're like, you actually can't really They're like, you actually can't really learn this in this room. We're just learn this in this room. We're just learn this in this room. We're just going to share like stories and teach going to share like stories and teach going to share like stories and teach you like how the great entrepreneurs you like how the great entrepreneurs you like how the great entrepreneurs have done it as best we can. But uh have done it as best we can. But uh have done it as best we can. But uh there was one I had this great what I there was one I had this great what I there was one I had this great what I thought was a great idea. My dad thought was a great idea. My dad thought was a great idea. My dad thought it was a great idea, too. We spent many it was a great idea, too. We spent many it was a great idea, too. We spent many hours thinking about it. Uh you and I hours thinking about it. Uh you and I hours thinking about it. Uh you and I have Man, there's so many memories at have Man, there's so many memories at have Man, there's so many memories at Quick Trip. Quick Trip. Quick Trip. » Oh, yeah. We live there. » Oh, yeah. We live there. » Oh, yeah. We live there. » What was the » What was the » What was the » I spent all my summer money at Quick » I spent all my summer money at Quick » I spent all my summer money at Quick Rooster Boosteries. Rooster Boosteries. Rooster Boosteries. » Oh my gosh, man. That should have been » Oh my gosh, man. That should have been » Oh my gosh, man. That should have been illegal. illegal. illegal. » Whoever lives at 141 North in Corette, » Whoever lives at 141 North in Corette, » Whoever lives at 141 North in Corette, Eldredo, Kansas. I apologize. If you Eldredo, Kansas. I apologize. If you Eldredo, Kansas. I apologize. If you look under that carpet, that wood is look under that carpet, that wood is look under that carpet, that wood is ruined. We spilled so much rooster ruined. We spilled so much rooster ruined. We spilled so much rooster booster. And I remember seeing that red booster. And I remember seeing that red booster. And I remember seeing that red like and scrubbing that wood like it's like and scrubbing that wood like it's like and scrubbing that wood like it's deep. deep. deep. » It's gone to the grain. » It's gone to the grain. » It's gone to the grain. » We would put golf clubs on our back » We would put golf clubs on our back » We would put golf clubs on our back » at your house in Emporia, » at your house in Emporia, » at your house in Emporia, » ride our bikes to Quard, get some » ride our bikes to Quard, get some » ride our bikes to Quard, get some rooster booster, ride bikes more to the rooster booster, ride bikes more to the rooster booster, ride bikes more to the golf course golf course golf course » in 105° » in 105° » in 105° » and we quit golfing pretty quick. » and we quit golfing pretty quick. » and we quit golfing pretty quick. » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then we just go » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then we just go » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then we just go look for balls in the creeks. Yeah. That look for balls in the creeks. Yeah. That look for balls in the creeks. Yeah. That was the game golf with should we go get was the game golf with should we go get was the game golf with should we go get a Chimoka shake or another rooster a Chimoka shake or another rooster a Chimoka shake or another rooster booster? the calorie intake and the booster? the calorie intake and the booster? the calorie intake and the heat. We kept it neutral. heat. We kept it neutral. heat. We kept it neutral. » It was amazing. » It was amazing. » It was amazing. » Did our best. » Did our best. » Did our best. » I love Quick Trips. That was the » I love Quick Trips. That was the » I love Quick Trips. That was the segue there. segue there. segue there. » I know. And by the way, this idea was » I know. And by the way, this idea was » I know. And by the way, this idea was already talked about on the podcast. already talked about on the podcast. already talked about on the podcast. Caitlyn Barry was Caitlyn Meyer was on Caitlyn Barry was Caitlyn Meyer was on Caitlyn Barry was Caitlyn Meyer was on the podcast. Was in your the podcast. Was in your the podcast. Was in your entrepreneurship. entrepreneurship. entrepreneurship. » No way. » No way. » No way. » Class already told this story. What » Class already told this story. What » Class already told this story. What you're about to tell has already been you're about to tell has already been you're about to tell has already been said on this podcast. said on this podcast. said on this podcast. » Someone else mentioned this. » Someone else mentioned this. » Someone else mentioned this. » Yes. Yeah. She was in your She owns Brco » Yes. Yeah. She was in your She owns Brco » Yes. Yeah. She was in your She owns Brco and » Dilly Deli. Yeah. Yeah. » Dilly Deli. Yeah. Yeah. » Dilly Deli. Yeah. Yeah. » Yeah. She was in and she remembers your » Yeah. She was in and she remembers your » Yeah. She was in and she remembers your gas station idea. She brought it out. gas station idea. She brought it out. gas station idea. She brought it out. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. » Terrible idea. » Terrible idea. » Terrible idea. » It's not great. » It's not great. » It's not great. » We made fun of it though so much. I love » We made fun of it though so much. I love » We made fun of it though so much. I love it. it. it. » Is that cool? » Is that cool? » Is that cool? » Uh you go to the pump. The way gas » Uh you go to the pump. The way gas » Uh you go to the pump. The way gas stations make money is by the stuff stations make money is by the stuff stations make money is by the stuff inside. Yeah. inside. Yeah. inside. Yeah. » Gas. You really barely I mean it's such » Gas. You really barely I mean it's such » Gas. You really barely I mean it's such a It's almost a loss leader for gas a It's almost a loss leader for gas a It's almost a loss leader for gas stations making money on on gas. They stations making money on on gas. They stations making money on on gas. They need you to come inside because they need you to come inside because they need you to come inside because they mark up on the snacks. But it paid the mark up on the snacks. But it paid the mark up on the snacks. But it paid the pump. No one's going to come inside. So, pump. No one's going to come inside. So, pump. No one's going to come inside. So, how do you deliver the snacks? It's a how do you deliver the snacks? It's a how do you deliver the snacks? It's a distribution problem. And I was like, distribution problem. And I was like, distribution problem. And I was like, banks are doing it every day with banks are doing it every day with banks are doing it every day with pneumatic tubes. We got to get some pneumatic tubes. We got to get some pneumatic tubes. We got to get some pneumatic tube. Yes. You got a pneumatic tube. Yes. You got a pneumatic tube. Yes. You got a touchcreen out there. You order your touchcreen out there. You order your touchcreen out there. You order your snack, they whip it together, slide it snack, they whip it together, slide it snack, they whip it together, slide it through the pneumatic tube straight out. through the pneumatic tube straight out. through the pneumatic tube straight out. It's like you don't even have to leave It's like you don't even have to leave It's like you don't even have to leave your car. You've got a captive audience. your car. You've got a captive audience. your car. You've got a captive audience. It's a great idea. I pitched this. I It's a great idea. I pitched this. I It's a great idea. I pitched this. I feel really good about it. And feel really good about it. And feel really good about it. And obviously, I was compelling. if obviously, I was compelling. if obviously, I was compelling. if someone's still talking about this, I I someone's still talking about this, I I someone's still talking about this, I I can I'm stunned, but I'm honored deeply. can I'm stunned, but I'm honored deeply. can I'm stunned, but I'm honored deeply. » You should be. » You should be. » You should be. » And the professor afterwards, I was » And the professor afterwards, I was » And the professor afterwards, I was like, "No, I'm really serious about like, "No, I'm really serious about like, "No, I'm really serious about this." And I was like, "What would be my this." And I was like, "What would be my this." And I was like, "What would be my next step?" And he said, "Yeah." He next step?" And he said, "Yeah." He next step?" And he said, "Yeah." He said, "I think what you would need to do said, "I think what you would need to do said, "I think what you would need to do is get more familiar with the pneumatic is get more familiar with the pneumatic is get more familiar with the pneumatic tube industry." So, he said, "I would tube industry." So, he said, "I would tube industry." So, he said, "I would recommend going and like working at a recommend going and like working at a recommend going and like working at a pneumatic tube company for a few years pneumatic tube company for a few years pneumatic tube company for a few years to like figure it out." to like figure it out." to like figure it out." » Solid advice. » Solid advice. » Solid advice. » And I was like, "Oh, yeah. I don't want » And I was like, "Oh, yeah. I don't want » And I was like, "Oh, yeah. I don't want to do this job at all. Like, I don't I to do this job at all. Like, I don't I to do this job at all. Like, I don't I don't actually care about this idea." don't actually care about this idea." don't actually care about this idea." And it was just immediate. It was just And it was just immediate. It was just And it was just immediate. It was just immediate how quickly I was like, "Oh immediate how quickly I was like, "Oh immediate how quickly I was like, "Oh yeah, I don't want this." And and it was yeah, I don't want this." And and it was yeah, I don't want this." And and it was also clear he was like no nonsense about also clear he was like no nonsense about also clear he was like no nonsense about it of like the first exercise we had to it of like the first exercise we had to it of like the first exercise we had to do was write down a 100 business ideas do was write down a 100 business ideas do was write down a 100 business ideas and he said, "If I can Google any one of and he said, "If I can Google any one of and he said, "If I can Google any one of them, them, them, » they don't count." And so the score was » they don't count." And so the score was » they don't count." And so the score was out of 100. out of 100. out of 100. » Score was out of 100. And he said, » Score was out of 100. And he said, » Score was out of 100. And he said, "You've got to solve a problem." And "You've got to solve a problem." And "You've got to solve a problem." And they were like one sentence business they were like one sentence business they were like one sentence business ideas. ideas. ideas. » Yeah. And you know we at that time I was » Yeah. And you know we at that time I was » Yeah. And you know we at that time I was holding on to each idea so with like holding on to each idea so with like holding on to each idea so with like precious I was like this is the coolest precious I was like this is the coolest precious I was like this is the coolest idea. I think one of them I was um it idea. I think one of them I was um it idea. I think one of them I was um it was before Audible. I had the idea for was before Audible. I had the idea for was before Audible. I had the idea for us um and it was even before Spotify. It us um and it was even before Spotify. It us um and it was even before Spotify. It was Pandora for was Pandora for was Pandora for » books. » books. » books. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And uh and like that's a pattern match. » And uh and like that's a pattern match. » And uh and like that's a pattern match. It's like hey we like it in this format. It's like hey we like it in this format. It's like hey we like it in this format. Change the content slightly and people Change the content slightly and people Change the content slightly and people would like it in this other med. Like would like it in this other med. Like would like it in this other med. Like that's a great observation as a that's a great observation as a that's a great observation as a 20-year-old. 20-year-old. 20-year-old. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » That's never going to become a company. » That's never going to become a company. » That's never going to become a company. Like that pattern matching is not it. Like that pattern matching is not it. Like that pattern matching is not it. Like that's not the thing. Like a Like that's not the thing. Like a Like that's not the thing. Like a million people could find that same million people could find that same million people could find that same pattern. What you actually needed was pattern. What you actually needed was pattern. What you actually needed was like I don't even know what like I don't even know what like I don't even know what like industry connections and understanding industry connections and understanding industry connections and understanding the technology like 10,000 other the technology like 10,000 other the technology like 10,000 other things that it's like not about just things that it's like not about just things that it's like not about just sitting around coming up with ideas. So, sitting around coming up with ideas. So, sitting around coming up with ideas. So, it was weird to try and study that in a it was weird to try and study that in a it was weird to try and study that in a class, but I think there was some really class, but I think there was some really class, but I think there was some really I I think I and I was dismissive of it I I think I and I was dismissive of it I I think I and I was dismissive of it for the first decade, but I find myself for the first decade, but I find myself for the first decade, but I find myself returning to it when I have an idea and returning to it when I have an idea and returning to it when I have an idea and I have to vet, I have to vet, I have to vet, » do I feel this in my bones or is this » do I feel this in my bones or is this » do I feel this in my bones or is this just a fun idea that I'm going to use as just a fun idea that I'm going to use as just a fun idea that I'm going to use as a distraction to like distract me from a distraction to like distract me from a distraction to like distract me from my real work? And that's been a really my real work? And that's been a really my real work? And that's been a really good litmus test. Like, there's actually good litmus test. Like, there's actually good litmus test. Like, there's actually very few things that I've had deep very few things that I've had deep very few things that I've had deep conviction on. Like, the pneumatic tube conviction on. Like, the pneumatic tube conviction on. Like, the pneumatic tube idea is a fun idea. Right. idea is a fun idea. Right. idea is a fun idea. Right. » There's a good reason it hasn't » There's a good reason it hasn't » There's a good reason it hasn't happened. I don't know what it is. Like, happened. I don't know what it is. Like, happened. I don't know what it is. Like, I haven't I haven't I haven't » I just remember my favorite part of that » I just remember my favorite part of that » I just remember my favorite part of that conversation was us just picturing conversation was us just picturing conversation was us just picturing Rooster Boosters Rooster Boosters Rooster Boosters going through the pneumatic tubes going through the pneumatic tubes going through the pneumatic tubes just like, "How would this play out? How just like, "How would this play out? How just like, "How would this play out? How can we get the foam right?" Like, can we get the foam right?" Like, can we get the foam right?" Like, » yeah, » yeah, » yeah, » they've got a bottle of this stuff. » they've got a bottle of this stuff. » they've got a bottle of this stuff. » Yeah. The straw there's there's some » Yeah. The straw there's there's some » Yeah. The straw there's there's some limitations to it. The hot food going limitations to it. The hot food going limitations to it. The hot food going through those. I don't Is it? Yeah, it's through those. I don't Is it? Yeah, it's through those. I don't Is it? Yeah, it's a good idea for the certain uh a certain a good idea for the certain uh a certain a good idea for the certain uh a certain menu items. Like it seems like a Bies menu items. Like it seems like a Bies menu items. Like it seems like a Bies thing, thing, thing, » but then they probably want you to walk » but then they probably want you to walk » but then they probably want you to walk past all the other things and then it's past all the other things and then it's past all the other things and then it's Yeah, whatever. But yeah, back to your Yeah, whatever. But yeah, back to your Yeah, whatever. But yeah, back to your point, that's a really good deduction of point, that's a really good deduction of point, that's a really good deduction of fun idea to what's an idea at my core fun idea to what's an idea at my core fun idea to what's an idea at my core that I feel in my bones. I think also that I feel in my bones. I think also that I feel in my bones. I think also the thing of like this is if you're the thing of like this is if you're the thing of like this is if you're going to start something first off going to start something first off going to start something first off probably not going to work. So just probably not going to work. So just probably not going to work. So just categorically whatever you're going to categorically whatever you're going to categorically whatever you're going to start, it's just so impossibly hard to start, it's just so impossibly hard to start, it's just so impossibly hard to get anything to be real in the world. get anything to be real in the world. get anything to be real in the world. » Um so very likely to fail, » Um so very likely to fail, » Um so very likely to fail, » it's going to be 10 times harder than » it's going to be 10 times harder than » it's going to be 10 times harder than you think you think you think » and you're going to want to quit often. » and you're going to want to quit often. » and you're going to want to quit often. » Mhm. » Mhm. » Mhm. » So like he said one task that I would » So like he said one task that I would » So like he said one task that I would have to do is like do more research and have to do is like do more research and have to do is like do more research and I'm out. I'm like nope not for me. That I'm out. I'm like nope not for me. That I'm out. I'm like nope not for me. That is um just so evident like I did not is um just so evident like I did not is um just so evident like I did not care about that idea. It was an care about that idea. It was an care about that idea. It was an interesting pattern. It was an interesting pattern. It was an interesting pattern. It was an interesting pattern that I was able to interesting pattern that I was able to interesting pattern that I was able to identify. And pattern matching is really identify. And pattern matching is really identify. And pattern matching is really valuable, but that's not just seeing a valuable, but that's not just seeing a valuable, but that's not just seeing a pattern is not the same thing as being pattern is not the same thing as being pattern is not the same thing as being like, I've got the grit and like, I've got the grit and like, I've got the grit and determination to make this happen. And determination to make this happen. And determination to make this happen. And that's that's a brutal world. You know that's that's a brutal world. You know that's that's a brutal world. You know all about that. all about that. all about that. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. Do I? Do I? Do I? » Oh, yeah. Yeah. You taking some lumps. » Oh, yeah. Yeah. You taking some lumps. » Oh, yeah. Yeah. You taking some lumps. » Yeah. Failed a lot. Um, okay. What were » Yeah. Failed a lot. Um, okay. What were » Yeah. Failed a lot. Um, okay. What were we talking about? we talking about? we talking about? » This is going to be our reoccurring » This is going to be our reoccurring » This is going to be our reoccurring back. back. back. » Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. No. Yeah. You » Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. No. Yeah. You » Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. No. Yeah. You » Here's what we were talking about. » Here's what we were talking about. » Here's what we were talking about. Here's what we're both thinking about. Here's what we're both thinking about. Here's what we're both thinking about. We both keep picturing the rooster We both keep picturing the rooster We both keep picturing the rooster booster. It just keeps flashing. booster. It just keeps flashing. booster. It just keeps flashing. » It's like right down my spine. I can » It's like right down my spine. I can » It's like right down my spine. I can feel it. feel it. feel it. » I haven't done something like that in a » I haven't done something like that in a » I haven't done something like that in a long time, man. I I don't do the Red long time, man. I I don't do the Red long time, man. I I don't do the Red Bull stuff. Like I don't Bull stuff. Like I don't Bull stuff. Like I don't » I don't either. » Is it really bad when I laugh that loud? » Is it really bad when I laugh that loud? » No. » No. » No. » No. It's perfect. » No. It's perfect. » No. It's perfect. » You'll be shocked what these do. I mean, » You'll be shocked what these do. I mean, » You'll be shocked what these do. I mean, I scream a lot. I scream a lot. I scream a lot. » Yeah. It doesn't sound like I don't » Yeah. It doesn't sound like I don't » Yeah. It doesn't sound like I don't know. Working some magic. know. Working some magic. know. Working some magic. Just like Just like Just like » it's about the only complaint we got on » it's about the only complaint we got on » it's about the only complaint we got on the podcast is my Tourette's. » You can believe it » You can believe it » in post. » in post. » in post. » Uh so we were going to idea » Uh so we were going to idea » Uh so we were going to idea entrepreneurship school. school. school. » Yeah. You said high school after. Yeah. » Yeah. You said high school after. Yeah. » Yeah. You said high school after. Yeah. » You're doing you're basically at the end » You're doing you're basically at the end » You're doing you're basically at the end of your degree now. of your degree now. of your degree now. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Learned about that and then » Learned about that and then » Learned about that and then » Yeah. I and then uh my dad and mom were » Yeah. I and then uh my dad and mom were » Yeah. I and then uh my dad and mom were both entrepreneurs. So I think that's both entrepreneurs. So I think that's both entrepreneurs. So I think that's definitely like definitely like definitely like » I think there is something really » I think there is something really » I think there is something really powerful about my dad. It's the same way that like NBA players It's the same way that like NBA players whose fathers were professional whose fathers were professional whose fathers were professional athletes. athletes. athletes. » There's um that doesn't that definitely » There's um that doesn't that definitely » There's um that doesn't that definitely doesn't make it inevitable. Lots of doesn't make it inevitable. Lots of doesn't make it inevitable. Lots of professional athletes their kids do not professional athletes their kids do not professional athletes their kids do not become professional athletes. But if become professional athletes. But if become professional athletes. But if your father was a professional athlete your father was a professional athlete your father was a professional athlete and he was also just the guy around your and he was also just the guy around your and he was also just the guy around your house » Yeah. being a dad in like it normalizes » Yeah. being a dad in like it normalizes » Yeah. being a dad in like it normalizes that career in a way that there's no that career in a way that there's no that career in a way that there's no other way to find that. And so I think other way to find that. And so I think other way to find that. And so I think there's just it is an absolute advantage there's just it is an absolute advantage there's just it is an absolute advantage for uh Steph Curry's dad. He grew up for uh Steph Curry's dad. He grew up for uh Steph Curry's dad. He grew up going to NBA games watching his dad play going to NBA games watching his dad play going to NBA games watching his dad play like » he's not really that good. He just had a » he's not really that good. He just had a » he's not really that good. He just had a dad that had connections. dad that had connections. dad that had connections. » He didn't work that hard. Oh my gosh. » He didn't work that hard. Oh my gosh. » He didn't work that hard. Oh my gosh. Can we It's too late. I said that was a Can we It's too late. I said that was a Can we It's too late. I said that was a joke. It's like the hardest worker ever. joke. It's like the hardest worker ever. joke. It's like the hardest worker ever. It's an advantage though that to because It's an advantage though that to because It's an advantage though that to because it makes something so inaccessible it makes something so inaccessible it makes something so inaccessible familiar and I think a lot of my friends familiar and I think a lot of my friends familiar and I think a lot of my friends when they think about making the leap to when they think about making the leap to when they think about making the leap to entrepreneurship there's there is fear entrepreneurship there's there is fear entrepreneurship there's there is fear and that there's a lot of failure in it. and that there's a lot of failure in it. and that there's a lot of failure in it. So the fear is like rational, but So the fear is like rational, but So the fear is like rational, but for me because I watched my mom and my for me because I watched my mom and my for me because I watched my mom and my dad try so many things um and not dad try so many things um and not dad try so many things um and not successful things often like they've successful things often like they've successful things often like they've only had a few successes only had a few successes only had a few successes » and they've tried a lot more things than » and they've tried a lot more things than » and they've tried a lot more things than that and just to see how effortless they that and just to see how effortless they that and just to see how effortless they were able to move from one idea to the were able to move from one idea to the were able to move from one idea to the next and have almost no shame in next and have almost no shame in next and have almost no shame in failure. Like it's a beautiful thing. failure. Like it's a beautiful thing. failure. Like it's a beautiful thing. like I had to I had to grow in that cuz like I had to I had to grow in that cuz like I had to I had to grow in that cuz like I think there is a lot of shame like I think there is a lot of shame like I think there is a lot of shame associated with failure and that will associated with failure and that will associated with failure and that will kill you like you can't be an kill you like you can't be an kill you like you can't be an entrepreneur if you're ashamed if you entrepreneur if you're ashamed if you entrepreneur if you're ashamed if you make a mistake and fail and so um make a mistake and fail and so um make a mistake and fail and so um » I think that exposure definitely I was » I think that exposure definitely I was » I think that exposure definitely I was like my dad can do it so of course I can like my dad can do it so of course I can like my dad can do it so of course I can do it that almost an entitlement to it do it that almost an entitlement to it do it that almost an entitlement to it which is uh a huge privilege that I'm which is uh a huge privilege that I'm which is uh a huge privilege that I'm grateful for. grateful for. grateful for. » Yeah that's that's good. I've never » Yeah that's that's good. I've never » Yeah that's that's good. I've never thought about it that way. Do you feel thought about it that way. Do you feel thought about it that way. Do you feel like in your I guess your dad wasn't I I like in your I guess your dad wasn't I I like in your I guess your dad wasn't I I still think of your dad as very still think of your dad as very still think of your dad as very entrepreneurial of like a a starter of entrepreneurial of like a a starter of entrepreneurial of like a a starter of things. Do you feel like that was things. Do you feel like that was things. Do you feel like that was » a builder and do you feel like you had » a builder and do you feel like you had » a builder and do you feel like you had that kind of in your bones where you that kind of in your bones where you that kind of in your bones where you could just start stuff? could just start stuff? could just start stuff? » Yeah, I think so. I think it was » Yeah, I think so. I think it was » Yeah, I think so. I think it was definitely uh I mean they did a little definitely uh I mean they did a little definitely uh I mean they did a little bit of it. They dabbled just a tad in bit of it. They dabbled just a tad in bit of it. They dabbled just a tad in some business stuff in between. some business stuff in between. some business stuff in between. » We did some furniture stuff. I broke a » We did some furniture stuff. I broke a » We did some furniture stuff. I broke a lot day. It was It's exactly what you lot day. It was It's exactly what you lot day. It was It's exactly what you said and I think it it's like coming said and I think it it's like coming said and I think it it's like coming from big families too, from big families too, from big families too, » right? I'm I'm oldest of nine. You're » right? I'm I'm oldest of nine. You're » right? I'm I'm oldest of nine. You're oldest of 12. oldest of 12. oldest of 12. » 12. » 12. » 12. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And I I think you're just uh your fear » And I I think you're just uh your fear » And I I think you're just uh your fear of failure changes like or how you of failure changes like or how you of failure changes like or how you handle failure or how you view handle failure or how you view handle failure or how you view failure » uh has a lot to do with how you handle » uh has a lot to do with how you handle » uh has a lot to do with how you handle change. And I think when you're in a big change. And I think when you're in a big change. And I think when you're in a big family, there's so much change and the family, there's so much change and the family, there's so much change and the dynamics change so quickly all the time dynamics change so quickly all the time dynamics change so quickly all the time because there's oh there's another one, because there's oh there's another one, because there's oh there's another one, » right? And the whole dynamic changes » right? And the whole dynamic changes » right? And the whole dynamic changes again. Yeah. So I I kind of associate again. Yeah. So I I kind of associate again. Yeah. So I I kind of associate like failure as change and when you're like failure as change and when you're like failure as change and when you're around when you're in an environment around when you're in an environment around when you're in an environment with a lot of change, I think with a lot of change, I think with a lot of change, I think entrepreneurship is more attractive and entrepreneurship is more attractive and entrepreneurship is more attractive and you kind of have it at your core and you kind of have it at your core and you kind of have it at your core where you can jump into it a little where you can jump into it a little where you can jump into it a little easier than someone that had a pretty easier than someone that had a pretty easier than someone that had a pretty normal life, pretty consistent, normal life, pretty consistent, normal life, pretty consistent, everything was predictable. everything was predictable. everything was predictable. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Does that make sense? It's like that » Does that make sense? It's like that » Does that make sense? It's like that's kind of where I put my not that's kind of where I put my not that's kind of where I put my not the business model growing up around the business model growing up around the business model growing up around that for me as much as just that for me as much as just that for me as much as just um being able to handle change and so um being able to handle change and so um being able to handle change and so therefore the risk of failure to me therefore the risk of failure to me therefore the risk of failure to me just looked like a another chapter, just looked like a another chapter, just looked like a another chapter, right? It's kind of like, oh yeah, I right? It's kind of like, oh yeah, I right? It's kind of like, oh yeah, I mean I've seen my parents fail. I've mean I've seen my parents fail. I've mean I've seen my parents fail. I've seen them go backwards and everything seen them go backwards and everything seen them go backwards and everything was okay. Seems like everybody's okay was okay. Seems like everybody's okay was okay. Seems like everybody's okay » and then oh that happened again. And so » and then oh that happened again. And so » and then oh that happened again. And so yeah, it's kind of different vantage yeah, it's kind of different vantage yeah, it's kind of different vantage point probably than what you had as far point probably than what you had as far point probably than what you had as far as the view of it or the take on it. But as the view of it or the take on it. But as the view of it or the take on it. But right in ministry it changed like right in ministry it changed like right in ministry it changed like several times what his role was where he several times what his role was where he several times what his role was where he was doing it. was doing it. was doing it. » Yes. » Yes. » Yes. » But he kind of had the final say. It » But he kind of had the final say. It » But he kind of had the final say. It wasn't like a job like he was creating wasn't like a job like he was creating wasn't like a job like he was creating Yes. Yes. Yes. » those places he went to to do ministry. » those places he went to to do ministry. » those places he went to to do ministry. Yes. Yes. Yes. » So 100% very entrepreneurial very » So 100% very entrepreneurial very » So 100% very entrepreneurial very different uh sector. Right. I think I different uh sector. Right. I think I different uh sector. Right. I think I think the other thing that my um the think the other thing that my um the think the other thing that my um the my dad modeled for me that I really my dad modeled for me that I really my dad modeled for me that I really admire is that I think he grew up uh I admire is that I think he grew up uh I admire is that I think he grew up uh I don't know if he was ever diagnosed with don't know if he was ever diagnosed with don't know if he was ever diagnosed with it but I think he thinks he was it but I think he thinks he was it but I think he thinks he was dyslexic. He had a really hard time dyslexic. He had a really hard time dyslexic. He had a really hard time reading. He could his eyes couldn't reading. He could his eyes couldn't reading. He could his eyes couldn't track on the page. And so he went into track on the page. And so he went into track on the page. And so he went into high school he's an incredible athlete. high school he's an incredible athlete. high school he's an incredible athlete. » Played um college football state. Their » Played um college football state. Their » Played um college football state. Their their high school team won state all their high school team won state all their high school team won state all four years he played. his dad was a four years he played. his dad was a four years he played. his dad was a legendary coach. Um he was a great legendary coach. Um he was a great legendary coach. Um he was a great athlete and he was really a poor student athlete and he was really a poor student athlete and he was really a poor student and um it's because he he was just I I and um it's because he he was just I I and um it's because he he was just I I couldn't read and he felt like he was couldn't read and he felt like he was couldn't read and he felt like he was dumb and he wasn't of course he was dumb and he wasn't of course he was dumb and he wasn't of course he was dumb. Uh he has just like really good dumb. Uh he has just like really good dumb. Uh he has just like really good instincts and just a cleverness about instincts and just a cleverness about instincts and just a cleverness about him and a resilience about him. But that him and a resilience about him. But that him and a resilience about him. But that insecurity that he had, which he carries insecurity that he had, which he carries insecurity that he had, which he carries with him probably still to this day, with him probably still to this day, with him probably still to this day, like that's childhood stuff, like that's childhood stuff, like that's childhood stuff, like remembering having to read in front of a remembering having to read in front of a remembering having to read in front of a class and not being able to just that class and not being able to just that class and not being able to just that goes straight to your bones. And my that goes straight to your bones. And my that goes straight to your bones. And my dad carried that with him. And I think dad carried that with him. And I think dad carried that with him. And I think somehow that sort of chip on his somehow that sort of chip on his somehow that sort of chip on his shoulder » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » led him to be like, » led him to be like, » led him to be like, » uh, I'm not going to be able to take the » uh, I'm not going to be able to take the » uh, I'm not going to be able to take the normal path normal path normal path » when I follow academics. That's not » when I follow academics. That's not » when I follow academics. That's not going to be my way. Like he barely even going to be my way. Like he barely even going to be my way. Like he barely even made it through college. uh taken he made it through college. uh taken he made it through college. uh taken he said he was taking like karate as like said he was taking like karate as like said he was taking like karate as like his classes and he was going once or his classes and he was going once or his classes and he was going once or twice a semester and they were giving twice a semester and they were giving twice a semester and they were giving him an A like it was like he was like he him an A like it was like he was like he him an A like it was like he was like he was barely making it but it took him a was barely making it but it took him a was barely making it but it took him a little while to find his way but then little while to find his way but then little while to find his way but then when he did I think he felt like I can when he did I think he felt like I can when he did I think he felt like I can make my own way make my own way make my own way » and that um really propelled him to » and that um really propelled him to » and that um really propelled him to create a company. So, so there's that create a company. So, so there's that create a company. So, so there's that part of it, but then also the way that part of it, but then also the way that part of it, but then also the way that he used that autonomy. he used that autonomy. he used that autonomy. » Uh, he coached every one of my sports. » Uh, he coached every one of my sports. » Uh, he coached every one of my sports. He coached and I had 11 brothers and He coached and I had 11 brothers and He coached and I had 11 brothers and sisters and he coached nearly all of sisters and he coached nearly all of sisters and he coached nearly all of their sports and we played three sports their sports and we played three sports their sports and we played three sports a year and he was a gentle, kind, a year and he was a gentle, kind, a year and he was a gentle, kind, generous coach generous coach generous coach » and he was able to do that because of he » and he was able to do that because of he » and he was able to do that because of he owned the company owned the company owned the company » and he was able to set his own schedule » and he was able to set his own schedule » and he was able to set his own schedule and say, "I'm going to make it a and say, "I'm going to make it a and say, "I'm going to make it a priority to be at the baseball diamonds priority to be at the baseball diamonds priority to be at the baseball diamonds every night every night every night » during the week." like because we're got » during the week." like because we're got » during the week." like because we're got practice or games every night that practice or games every night that practice or games every night that type of prioritization. type of prioritization. type of prioritization. Um it's harder to come by when you work Um it's harder to come by when you work Um it's harder to come by when you work for someone else. There's so much for someone else. There's so much for someone else. There's so much pressure about it where he was like, I'm pressure about it where he was like, I'm pressure about it where he was like, I'm going to just create my own life. And so going to just create my own life. And so going to just create my own life. And so that autonomy also feel really that autonomy also feel really that autonomy also feel really privileged to have witnessed that privileged to have witnessed that privileged to have witnessed that autonomy, benefited from it as well. autonomy, benefited from it as well. autonomy, benefited from it as well. » Um and just been like » Um and just been like » Um and just been like » I don't I don't know how to say I felt » I don't I don't know how to say I felt » I don't I don't know how to say I felt entitled to be able to be my own boss entitled to be able to be my own boss entitled to be able to be my own boss from a very young age. And maybe it's from a very young age. And maybe it's from a very young age. And maybe it's because I'm an oldest child. I don't because I'm an oldest child. I don't because I'm an oldest child. I don't know what it is, but that I think I feel know what it is, but that I think I feel know what it is, but that I think I feel really grateful for. really grateful for. really grateful for. » Your dad was an incredible coach. I » Your dad was an incredible coach. I » Your dad was an incredible coach. I mean, he's definitely mean, he's definitely mean, he's definitely » probably the best experience I've had. » probably the best experience I've had. » probably the best experience I've had. No offense to my dad who's probably No offense to my dad who's probably No offense to my dad who's probably listening. Love you. Right. Just listening. Love you. Right. Just listening. Love you. Right. Just different background, different background, different background, different skill sets, different skill sets, different skill sets, different personalities. Uh but man, yeah, talk personalities. Uh but man, yeah, talk personalities. Uh but man, yeah, talk about someone that could push he could about someone that could push he could about someone that could push he could push you in his own way, make you feel push you in his own way, make you feel push you in his own way, make you feel like a million bucks, but also correct, like a million bucks, but also correct, like a million bucks, but also correct, right? course correct, push things, right? course correct, push things, right? course correct, push things, change things. He was pretty innovative, change things. He was pretty innovative, change things. He was pretty innovative, too, on his play calling. I always too, on his play calling. I always too, on his play calling. I always enjoyed watching his brain on the board. enjoyed watching his brain on the board. enjoyed watching his brain on the board. Yes, I still remember him. He loved Yes, I still remember him. He loved Yes, I still remember him. He loved working out ideas like he was he kind of working out ideas like he was he kind of working out ideas like he was he kind of took that creative mindset, uh, took that creative mindset, uh, took that creative mindset, uh, entrepreneurial mindset into like the entrepreneurial mindset into like the entrepreneurial mindset into like the playboard like in middle school. And he playboard like in middle school. And he playboard like in middle school. And he only coached me in middle school, not in only coached me in middle school, not in only coached me in middle school, not in high school. But, uh, that was so fun. high school. But, uh, that was so fun. high school. But, uh, that was so fun. » I mean, there's not a football » I mean, there's not a football » I mean, there's not a football season that we didn't come up with a season that we didn't come up with a season that we didn't come up with a double reverse pass. coach you all the double reverse pass. coach you all the double reverse pass. coach you all the way through high school way through high school way through high school » and these plays that he would » and these plays that he would » and these plays that he would draw up were never going to work just draw up were never going to work just draw up were never going to work just like the chances of these working like the chances of these working like the chances of these working were and it wasn't the point. were and it wasn't the point. were and it wasn't the point. » It wasn't the point. He was like it's » It wasn't the point. He was like it's » It wasn't the point. He was like it's just fun. just fun. just fun. » And I remember him coaching with other » And I remember him coaching with other » And I remember him coaching with other people and them being like this is like people and them being like this is like people and them being like this is like a incredibly risky dangerous play that a incredibly risky dangerous play that a incredibly risky dangerous play that will not lead to good results. And he's will not lead to good results. And he's will not lead to good results. And he's like but it's fun. like but it's fun. like but it's fun. » Dude, in his face when it didn't work » Dude, in his face when it didn't work » Dude, in his face when it didn't work out was better than when it did work out was better than when it did work out was better than when it did work out. I remember that. I remember some of out. I remember that. I remember some of out. I remember that. I remember some of the crazy plays he dropped. Even the crazy plays he dropped. Even the crazy plays he dropped. Even watching you guys play football. Yes. watching you guys play football. Yes. watching you guys play football. Yes. And when it wouldn't work out, you just And when it wouldn't work out, you just And when it wouldn't work out, you just get that big grin just like get that big grin just like get that big grin just like » he's like, "We try we tried something. » he's like, "We try we tried something. » he's like, "We try we tried something. We tried something. We tried something." We tried something. We tried something." We tried something. We tried something." It's like It's like It's like » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » He just was not content to if we were a » He just was not content to if we were a » He just was not content to if we were a better team to just like run it down the better team to just like run it down the better team to just like run it down the middle the whole game and go score. He's middle the whole game and go score. He's middle the whole game and go score. He's like, "That's just boring. There's a like, "That's just boring. There's a like, "That's just boring. There's a special way to play." And it's why he special way to play." And it's why he special way to play." And it's why he was doing behind the back passes and why was doing behind the back passes and why was doing behind the back passes and why all of us were doing behind the back all of us were doing behind the back all of us were doing behind the back passes cuz it wasn't enough just to play passes cuz it wasn't enough just to play passes cuz it wasn't enough just to play the game. There's like a style and the game. There's like a style and the game. There's like a style and there's an element of grace and beauty there's an element of grace and beauty there's an element of grace and beauty that he brought to it is like the way that he brought to it is like the way that he brought to it is like the way you do it is also important. And that's you do it is also important. And that's you do it is also important. And that's I think that's the chip on the shoulder I think that's the chip on the shoulder I think that's the chip on the shoulder is like we're not going to just do it is like we're not going to just do it is like we're not going to just do it the way. It's like I'm going to do it my the way. It's like I'm going to do it my the way. It's like I'm going to do it my way. way. way. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Well, your parents are both uh very » Well, your parents are both uh very » Well, your parents are both uh very articulate in their own way and like to articulate in their own way and like to articulate in their own way and like to do it their own way. do it their own way. do it their own way. » Yeah. Um, and that's manifested in you. » Yeah. Um, and that's manifested in you. » Yeah. Um, and that's manifested in you. That's helped me a lot is that you are That's helped me a lot is that you are That's helped me a lot is that you are you take you put so much thought into you take you put so much thought into you take you put so much thought into every stroke of a pen. That's probably every stroke of a pen. That's probably every stroke of a pen. That's probably the best way I can say it, right? Like the best way I can say it, right? Like the best way I can say it, right? Like every letter, every word you put into every letter, every word you put into every letter, every word you put into anything. Um, there's a lot of thought anything. Um, there's a lot of thought anything. Um, there's a lot of thought that goes into that. And that's honestly that goes into that. And that's honestly that goes into that. And that's honestly kind of the perfect blend of your kind of the perfect blend of your kind of the perfect blend of your parents » skill sets. And I've always thought » skill sets. And I've always thought » skill sets. And I've always thought that's a kind of one of your big uh that's a kind of one of your big uh that's a kind of one of your big uh unique value propositions of yourself is unique value propositions of yourself is unique value propositions of yourself is that » you're creative on that side. And you're » you're creative on that side. And you're » you're creative on that side. And you're always deducting and thinking outside of always deducting and thinking outside of always deducting and thinking outside of the box, but then you're also nurturing the box, but then you're also nurturing the box, but then you're also nurturing that with execution, that with execution, that with execution, thoughtfulness, and I'm going to I'm thoughtfulness, and I'm going to I'm thoughtfulness, and I'm going to I'm going to do this, but I'm going to I'm going to do this, but I'm going to I'm going to do this, but I'm going to I'm going to do it right and I'm going to do going to do it right and I'm going to do going to do it right and I'm going to do it well. I'm going to take pride in how it well. I'm going to take pride in how it well. I'm going to take pride in how I do it. I'm going to think about how I do it. I'm going to think about how I do it. I'm going to think about how this is going to affect other people. this is going to affect other people. this is going to affect other people. » Um, you know, it's not worth doing if » Um, you know, it's not worth doing if » Um, you know, it's not worth doing if this outcome isn't here for others as this outcome isn't here for others as this outcome isn't here for others as well. And which I think kind of is a well. And which I think kind of is a well. And which I think kind of is a great segue into nonprofits to get us great segue into nonprofits to get us great segue into nonprofits to get us back on the railroad. Um, so you back on the railroad. Um, so you back on the railroad. Um, so you finished college. finished college. finished college. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And » And » And » Yeah. So during college, even while I » Yeah. So during college, even while I » Yeah. So during college, even while I was in college, you said finished was in college, you said finished was in college, you said finished college, but we're going to keep going college, but we're going to keep going college, but we're going to keep going back. Yeah. That I was start I had back. Yeah. That I was start I had back. Yeah. That I was start I had started a company with my dad called started a company with my dad called started a company with my dad called Packademics. Do you remember? Packademics. Do you remember? Packademics. Do you remember? » Oh my god. » Oh my god. » Oh my god. » I did this for like 2 or 3 years where » I did this for like 2 or 3 years where » I did this for like 2 or 3 years where we were It was It was still I mean what we were It was It was still I mean what we were It was It was still I mean what was this like early 2010? So like 2010 was this like early 2010? So like 2010 was this like early 2010? So like 2010 to 11 somewhere around there. And um to 11 somewhere around there. And um to 11 somewhere around there. And um someone had created the company and we someone had created the company and we someone had created the company and we joined as partners cuz they needed joined as partners cuz they needed joined as partners cuz they needed honestly people to just work and sell honestly people to just work and sell honestly people to just work and sell and get stuff done. But essentially we and get stuff done. But essentially we and get stuff done. But essentially we were packaging school supplies in boxes. were packaging school supplies in boxes. were packaging school supplies in boxes. So you get your list from the student at So you get your list from the student at So you get your list from the student at the beginning of the year from the beginning of the year from the beginning of the year from the teacher. We would package it. You'd send teacher. We would package it. You'd send teacher. We would package it. You'd send it in. We'd package it and then parents it in. We'd package it and then parents it in. We'd package it and then parents could just buy it directly from us and could just buy it directly from us and could just buy it directly from us and we'd ship them a perfect package of we'd ship them a perfect package of we'd ship them a perfect package of exactly the supplies they wanted. exactly the supplies they wanted. exactly the supplies they wanted. » Back to school supplies. » Back to school supplies. » Back to school supplies. » Back to school supplies. Yeah. It was a » Back to school supplies. Yeah. It was a » Back to school supplies. Yeah. It was a it was a great idea. It'd be fundraisers it was a great idea. It'd be fundraisers it was a great idea. It'd be fundraisers for the school or the PTA. Kind of for the school or the PTA. Kind of for the school or the PTA. Kind of convenient for parents. Um, and you convenient for parents. Um, and you convenient for parents. Um, and you know, there was some opportunities. So, know, there was some opportunities. So, know, there was some opportunities. So, we partner with schools and do that. So, we partner with schools and do that. So, we partner with schools and do that. So, I tried to go sell that to a bunch of I tried to go sell that to a bunch of I tried to go sell that to a bunch of schools all over the country. We I we schools all over the country. We I we schools all over the country. We I we hit a seam in uh the suburbs of St. hit a seam in uh the suburbs of St. hit a seam in uh the suburbs of St. Louis. Louis. Louis. » And I think we had like 15 clients » And I think we had like 15 clients » And I think we had like 15 clients there. So, I was in St. Louis with a there. So, I was in St. Louis with a there. So, I was in St. Louis with a trailer by myself delivering boxes and trailer by myself delivering boxes and trailer by myself delivering boxes and boxes of school, supplies to schools. boxes of school, supplies to schools. boxes of school, supplies to schools. » Um, it didn't work. It didn't work » Um, it didn't work. It didn't work » Um, it didn't work. It didn't work great. I didn't I didn't have any great. I didn't I didn't have any great. I didn't I didn't have any confidence. I didn't know how to sell. confidence. I didn't know how to sell. confidence. I didn't know how to sell. Um, it was also like, talk about a low Um, it was also like, talk about a low Um, it was also like, talk about a low margin product. margin product. margin product. We competed with like Walmart and We competed with like Walmart and We competed with like Walmart and Amazon. So it was that was never going Amazon. So it was that was never going Amazon. So it was that was never going to be a great probably business. Maybe to be a great probably business. Maybe to be a great probably business. Maybe someone made one of it. Maybe it was someone made one of it. Maybe it was someone made one of it. Maybe it was just me. But um just me. But um just me. But um » great experience of responsibility at a » great experience of responsibility at a » great experience of responsibility at a really young age really young age really young age » of being responsible for thousands of » of being responsible for thousands of » of being responsible for thousands of kids, school supplies, a manufacturing kids, school supplies, a manufacturing kids, school supplies, a manufacturing process, delivering them. So I was doing process, delivering them. So I was doing process, delivering them. So I was doing sales, sales, sales, packaging, processing. I was making runs packaging, processing. I was making runs packaging, processing. I was making runs to Walmart to buy stuff that we didn't to Walmart to buy stuff that we didn't to Walmart to buy stuff that we didn't order enough, fulfilling and even order enough, fulfilling and even order enough, fulfilling and even delivering and meeting the customer face delivering and meeting the customer face delivering and meeting the customer face to face. Like the entire to face. Like the entire to face. Like the entire » experience of running a business and I » experience of running a business and I » experience of running a business and I did the whole thing like both all my dad did the whole thing like both all my dad did the whole thing like both all my dad and the other partner were sort of like and the other partner were sort of like and the other partner were sort of like Ted's going to go run this and that was Ted's going to go run this and that was Ted's going to go run this and that was wisdom on their part of like we don't wisdom on their part of like we don't wisdom on their part of like we don't want to do what he's about to have to want to do what he's about to have to want to do what he's about to have to do. It's grit and it's hard and that was do. It's grit and it's hard and that was do. It's grit and it's hard and that was really so I learned a lot from that and really so I learned a lot from that and really so I learned a lot from that and I did that while I was going to school. I did that while I was going to school. I did that while I was going to school. So like I had friends that were and So like I had friends that were and So like I had friends that were and people asked me like what fraternity we people asked me like what fraternity we people asked me like what fraternity we part of. I was like man I didn't even part of. I was like man I didn't even part of. I was like man I didn't even know about fraternities. I wasn't going know about fraternities. I wasn't going know about fraternities. I wasn't going to parties or anything. I was like I'm to parties or anything. I was like I'm to parties or anything. I was like I'm already in I'm already ready to be my own boss in I'm already ready to be my own boss in I'm already ready to be my own boss » and I'm going to start working on it » and I'm going to start working on it » and I'm going to start working on it right now. Like that was how I felt at right now. Like that was how I felt at right now. Like that was how I felt at like 19 or 20. So um definitely was like 19 or 20. So um definitely was like 19 or 20. So um definitely was trying to grow up very quickly. Um you trying to grow up very quickly. Um you trying to grow up very quickly. Um you talking about the nonprofit stuff that's talking about the nonprofit stuff that's talking about the nonprofit stuff that's also influenced tremendously by my also influenced tremendously by my also influenced tremendously by my parents. I think it starts with parents. I think it starts with parents. I think it starts with um so I have I have five little brothers um so I have I have five little brothers um so I have I have five little brothers and sisters and then six uh additional and sisters and then six uh additional and sisters and then six uh additional brothers and sisters who were adopted. brothers and sisters who were adopted. brothers and sisters who were adopted. So there were six biological six adopted So there were six biological six adopted So there were six biological six adopted and I'm the oldest. So when I was a and I'm the oldest. So when I was a and I'm the oldest. So when I was a freshman in high school, we adopted Eli freshman in high school, we adopted Eli freshman in high school, we adopted Eli and then when we were sophomore we and then when we were sophomore we and then when we were sophomore we adopted Emmy and then Macy and Silas adopted Emmy and then Macy and Silas adopted Emmy and then Macy and Silas came when I was a senior and then Millie came when I was a senior and then Millie came when I was a senior and then Millie Matias came when I was 20. So a little Matias came when I was 20. So a little Matias came when I was 20. So a little bit of change, a little bit of bit of change, a little bit of bit of change, a little bit of disruption. I think one thing about my disruption. I think one thing about my disruption. I think one thing about my entrepreneurial spirit I think is that I entrepreneurial spirit I think is that I entrepreneurial spirit I think is that I have a high tolerance for chaos. I think have a high tolerance for chaos. I think have a high tolerance for chaos. I think you come from that too. I think the you come from that too. I think the you come from that too. I think the McV's house was pretty chaotic in a McV's house was pretty chaotic in a McV's house was pretty chaotic in a lovely way. Sam and Amy I think it was lovely way. Sam and Amy I think it was lovely way. Sam and Amy I think it was all love and uh my house was all love and uh my house was all love and uh my house was tremendously chaotic. Um and to the tremendously chaotic. Um and to the tremendously chaotic. Um and to the point where Ellie's like when I walk point where Ellie's like when I walk point where Ellie's like when I walk Ellie's my wife when I walk through the Ellie's my wife when I walk through the Ellie's my wife when I walk through the house she's like you are so loud. house she's like you are so loud. house she's like you are so loud. And I was like, "No one ever heard me And I was like, "No one ever heard me And I was like, "No one ever heard me when I was at the house." And she's when I was at the house." And she's when I was at the house." And she's like, "Everything you do is loud. Um, I like, "Everything you do is loud. Um, I like, "Everything you do is loud. Um, I just am not delicate." And just because just am not delicate." And just because just am not delicate." And just because there's just people all the time. there's just people all the time. there's just people all the time. There's noise all the time. And you just There's noise all the time. And you just There's noise all the time. And you just sort of learn to drown things out and sort of learn to drown things out and sort of learn to drown things out and focus on what matters. And so, um, focus on what matters. And so, um, focus on what matters. And so, um, I think one of the most formative I think one of the most formative I think one of the most formative moments of my life was that when I was a moments of my life was that when I was a moments of my life was that when I was a senior in high school, um, when my senior in high school, um, when my senior in high school, um, when my parents went to Ethiopia to adopt Macy parents went to Ethiopia to adopt Macy parents went to Ethiopia to adopt Macy and Silas, I went with them. And I think and Silas, I went with them. And I think and Silas, I went with them. And I think that um I got to meet Macy and Silas's mom as um I got to meet Macy and Silas's mom as um I got to meet Macy and Silas's mom as she was giving her kids away and like she was giving her kids away and like she was giving her kids away and like just watching her go through this just watching her go through this just watching her go through this experience. And at the time I was 18 experience. And at the time I was 18 experience. And at the time I was 18 thinking she's an adult, like she's a thinking she's an adult, like she's a thinking she's an adult, like she's a woman. And now as I'm looking back, I woman. And now as I'm looking back, I woman. And now as I'm looking back, I was like she was probably only a few was like she was probably only a few was like she was probably only a few years older than me, like maybe years older than me, like maybe years older than me, like maybe like 25, 26. Uh Macy was five, Silas was like 25, 26. Uh Macy was five, Silas was like 25, 26. Uh Macy was five, Silas was three. three. three. And um just to witness that transition And um just to witness that transition And um just to witness that transition really spoke to me in a profound way. really spoke to me in a profound way. really spoke to me in a profound way. And there's there's like And there's there's like And there's there's like grief that comes with it. It was such a grief that comes with it. It was such a grief that comes with it. It was such a painful thing to witness. Obviously painful thing to witness. Obviously painful thing to witness. Obviously grief for my brother and sister who also grief for my brother and sister who also grief for my brother and sister who also I think got a tremendous opportunity to I think got a tremendous opportunity to I think got a tremendous opportunity to be a part of our family and I think be a part of our family and I think be a part of our family and I think they're very grateful for it. I think they're very grateful for it. I think they're very grateful for it. I think honestly everyone's grateful for it honestly everyone's grateful for it honestly everyone's grateful for it because their mom was not in a position because their mom was not in a position because their mom was not in a position to be able to care for them. That's why to be able to care for them. That's why to be able to care for them. That's why they'd been in an orphanage for years. I they'd been in an orphanage for years. I they'd been in an orphanage for years. I just feel really privileged to have just feel really privileged to have just feel really privileged to have witnessed such a profound thing of um witnessed such a profound thing of um witnessed such a profound thing of um Macy and Silas. Macy and Silas. Macy and Silas. Uh their mom as it was time for us to Uh their mom as it was time for us to Uh their mom as it was time for us to leave like she came to the hotel to leave like she came to the hotel to leave like she came to the hotel to spend like the last 30 minutes with her spend like the last 30 minutes with her spend like the last 30 minutes with her which is just a brutal thing. She which is just a brutal thing. She which is just a brutal thing. She took Macy's hand and put it in my mom's took Macy's hand and put it in my mom's took Macy's hand and put it in my mom's hand and she took Silus's hand and put hand and she took Silus's hand and put hand and she took Silus's hand and put it in my dad's hand and then she walked it in my dad's hand and then she walked it in my dad's hand and then she walked away and I watched that and obviously away and I watched that and obviously away and I watched that and obviously » wow » wow » wow » I weeped. Um » I weeped. Um » I weeped. Um but I think there's this thing where cuz but I think there's this thing where cuz but I think there's this thing where cuz obviously there's a language barrier. obviously there's a language barrier. obviously there's a language barrier. What are we going to say? Like what What are we going to say? Like what What are we going to say? Like what is there to say? There's there's nothing is there to say? There's there's nothing is there to say? There's there's nothing you can say in that moment. But also you can say in that moment. But also you can say in that moment. But also like that does say so much of these are like that does say so much of these are like that does say so much of these are your responsibility now and your responsibility now and your responsibility now and I took that quite seriously and so um I took that quite seriously and so um I took that quite seriously and so um when I say like I have 11 brothers and when I say like I have 11 brothers and when I say like I have 11 brothers and sisters I have 11 brothers and sisters I have 11 brothers and sisters I have 11 brothers and sisters like my life like there is no like my life like there is no like my life like there is no I think there was a day where I didn't I think there was a day where I didn't I think there was a day where I didn't know Macy and Silas know Macy and Silas know Macy and Silas » and They were in an orphanage as » and They were in an orphanage as » and They were in an orphanage as strangers and then I met them and I from strangers and then I met them and I from strangers and then I met them and I from that moment forward I'd give anything in that moment forward I'd give anything in that moment forward I'd give anything in my life for them my life for them my life for them » and that is a truly like miraculous » and that is a truly like miraculous » and that is a truly like miraculous thing to be on one side and the other thing to be on one side and the other thing to be on one side and the other and see that witness that so few people and see that witness that so few people and see that witness that so few people get the chance to choose get the chance to choose get the chance to choose » to love someone like that for the rest » to love someone like that for the rest » to love someone like that for the rest of your lives and I think um you know of your lives and I think um you know of your lives and I think um you know you come back from that change and so I you come back from that change and so I you come back from that change and so I think that I think is really formative think that I think is really formative think that I think is really formative and how and how and how because I've experienced those moments because I've experienced those moments because I've experienced those moments and the power of those moments. And and the power of those moments. And and the power of those moments. And because I have experienced the power of because I have experienced the power of because I have experienced the power of like the miraculous way we can the like the miraculous way we can the like the miraculous way we can the miraculous way resources can be unlocked miraculous way resources can be unlocked miraculous way resources can be unlocked » by just choosing to love someone. I mean » by just choosing to love someone. I mean » by just choosing to love someone. I mean it's it's a it's seismic it's it's a it's seismic it's it's a it's seismic for those geologists out there. I know I for those geologists out there. I know I for those geologists out there. I know I have a lot of geology fans. So, I think I had this sort of drum beat So, I think I had this sort of drum beat of I have so much just I'm so of I have so much just I'm so of I have so much just I'm so privileged. I went to private schools. privileged. I went to private schools. privileged. I went to private schools. Um I grew up in Elder, Kansas. Like it's Um I grew up in Elder, Kansas. Like it's Um I grew up in Elder, Kansas. Like it's not like we were gargantinally wealthy, not like we were gargantinally wealthy, not like we were gargantinally wealthy, but we had a pool and our friends wanted but we had a pool and our friends wanted but we had a pool and our friends wanted to play at our house and our to play at our house and our to play at our house and our basketball goal was legit. basketball goal was legit. basketball goal was legit. » We had a great backyard. Like we had a » We had a great backyard. Like we had a » We had a great backyard. Like we had a two double-decker fort. Like we had two double-decker fort. Like we had two double-decker fort. Like we had things. Went to a private school. never things. Went to a private school. never things. Went to a private school. never in need of anything. And my dad was in need of anything. And my dad was in need of anything. And my dad was available. Like so many people don't available. Like so many people don't available. Like so many people don't even have dads that are available to even have dads that are available to even have dads that are available to them. My dad was available. And so I had them. My dad was available. And so I had them. My dad was available. And so I had this sense of privilege and this sense this sense of privilege and this sense this sense of privilege and this sense of responsibility, which I'm still kind of responsibility, which I'm still kind of responsibility, which I'm still kind of working through probably to a fault. of working through probably to a fault. of working through probably to a fault. I was taking on maybe too much I was taking on maybe too much I was taking on maybe too much responsibility for a 19 or 20-year-old. responsibility for a 19 or 20-year-old. responsibility for a 19 or 20-year-old. Like I I think there was I was trying to Like I I think there was I was trying to Like I I think there was I was trying to grow up too fast and I did take on too grow up too fast and I did take on too grow up too fast and I did take on too much and I took some lumps because of much and I took some lumps because of much and I took some lumps because of that. But I did feel this sense of that. But I did feel this sense of that. But I did feel this sense of purpose of that and it wasn't ego or purpose of that and it wasn't ego or purpose of that and it wasn't ego or hubris of like no no average people can hubris of like no no average people can hubris of like no no average people can do transformative things if they just do transformative things if they just do transformative things if they just let love wash over them. And I think my let love wash over them. And I think my let love wash over them. And I think my parents are particularly average parents are particularly average parents are particularly average » and I can be very specific about how » and I can be very specific about how » and I can be very specific about how average they are. M average they are. M average they are. M » they are very normal and very flawed and » they are very normal and very flawed and » they are very normal and very flawed and I'm very I'm very aware of their flaws I'm very I'm very aware of their flaws I'm very I'm very aware of their flaws and it's a remarkable thing. It's a it's a remarkable thing. It's a it's a remarkable thing. It's a remarkable thing to say, you know what, remarkable thing to say, you know what, remarkable thing to say, you know what, we've had six kids. That was already a we've had six kids. That was already a we've had six kids. That was already a big family. big family. big family. » Yeah, that was a big family. And now um » Yeah, that was a big family. And now um » Yeah, that was a big family. And now um to go and do six more and say we could to go and do six more and say we could to go and do six more and say we could we have more room in our house is just we have more room in our house is just we have more room in our house is just it's a remarkable thing. So I have it's a remarkable thing. So I have it's a remarkable thing. So I have siblings though that are just now siblings though that are just now siblings though that are just now finishing high school and college. I'm finishing high school and college. I'm finishing high school and college. I'm 36 years old. Um, my parents are they 36 years old. Um, my parents are they 36 years old. Um, my parents are they did a second round of parenting into did a second round of parenting into did a second round of parenting into their mid60s and that there's lots of their mid60s and that there's lots of their mid60s and that there's lots of sacrifice with that. But um it's it's a sacrifice with that. But um it's it's a sacrifice with that. But um it's it's a beautiful thing. So yeah, beautiful thing. So yeah, beautiful thing. So yeah, » what do I do with this responsibility? » what do I do with this responsibility? » what do I do with this responsibility? And I think as LA and I were dating in And I think as LA and I were dating in And I think as LA and I were dating in college, we just felt a lot of tension college, we just felt a lot of tension college, we just felt a lot of tension of like what does it mean to demonstrate of like what does it mean to demonstrate of like what does it mean to demonstrate this powerful thing we've experienced this powerful thing we've experienced this powerful thing we've experienced and benefited from and how do we share and benefited from and how do we share and benefited from and how do we share it? And it took us a long time to figure it? And it took us a long time to figure it? And it took us a long time to figure out what it was. It maybe I felt like a out what it was. It maybe I felt like a out what it was. It maybe I felt like a long time. It took years. But and I long time. It took years. But and I long time. It took years. But and I think to the other thing I was saying, think to the other thing I was saying, think to the other thing I was saying, whatever it was, it was going to be whatever it was, it was going to be whatever it was, it was going to be something that I felt a lot of something that I felt a lot of something that I felt a lot of conviction about. It had to be something conviction about. It had to be something conviction about. It had to be something I felt in my bones cuz this is not I felt in my bones cuz this is not I felt in my bones cuz this is not something you don't adopt a child something you don't adopt a child something you don't adopt a child half-heartedly. There's no back seats. half-heartedly. There's no back seats. half-heartedly. There's no back seats. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Like it's a it's a lifetime commitment. » Like it's a it's a lifetime commitment. » Like it's a it's a lifetime commitment. And I think I was saying I feel like I And I think I was saying I feel like I And I think I was saying I feel like I must do something, but what is the must do something, but what is the must do something, but what is the thing? And I it took a little time to thing? And I it took a little time to thing? And I it took a little time to find that and a lot of searching. Yeah. find that and a lot of searching. Yeah. find that and a lot of searching. Yeah. I think it's really powerful the I think it's really powerful the I think it's really powerful the combination of what you had growing up combination of what you had growing up combination of what you had growing up the example what you do with resource the example what you do with resource the example what you do with resource your parents modeled what they did with your parents modeled what they did with your parents modeled what they did with their resources well right uh in that their resources well right uh in that their resources well right uh in that context » that's super powerful you can't do you » that's super powerful you can't do you » that's super powerful you can't do you can't adopt kids from Ethiopia without can't adopt kids from Ethiopia without can't adopt kids from Ethiopia without resources that takes uh a fair amount of resources that takes uh a fair amount of resources that takes uh a fair amount of resources just to bring in another kid resources just to bring in another kid resources just to bring in another kid just to adopt a kid here um let alone just to adopt a kid here um let alone just to adopt a kid here um let alone yeah out of another country. So seeing yeah out of another country. So seeing yeah out of another country. So seeing that model of that model of that model of hey here's a you know you talk about how hey here's a you know you talk about how hey here's a you know you talk about how great everything was and it could feel great everything was and it could feel great everything was and it could feel like a silver spoon but essentially the like a silver spoon but essentially the like a silver spoon but essentially the combination of that combination of that combination of that entrepreneurship availability and then entrepreneurship availability and then entrepreneurship availability and then you add in conviction that perfect you add in conviction that perfect you add in conviction that perfect little combination for you of how you little combination for you of how you little combination for you of how you view entrepreneurship because you don't view entrepreneurship because you don't view entrepreneurship because you don't have a chip on your shoulder. You're not have a chip on your shoulder. You're not have a chip on your shoulder. You're not trying to prove anything to anyone. trying to prove anything to anyone. trying to prove anything to anyone. You're trying to help and care. And You're trying to help and care. And You're trying to help and care. And that's kind of evident. But it's a cool that's kind of evident. But it's a cool that's kind of evident. But it's a cool I never really thought about that I never really thought about that I never really thought about that before. That's a really cool before. That's a really cool before. That's a really cool piece of your DNA that you're because piece of your DNA that you're because piece of your DNA that you're because your view of entrepreneurship and your view of entrepreneurship and your view of entrepreneurship and my view of entrepreneurship and how we my view of entrepreneurship and how we my view of entrepreneurship and how we have done it is so different. have done it is so different. have done it is so different. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » It's been so different. Um » It's been so different. Um » It's been so different. Um » and I I've never really thought about » and I I've never really thought about » and I I've never really thought about that perspective and I think that leads that perspective and I think that leads that perspective and I think that leads a lot into Yeah. what you're about to a lot into Yeah. what you're about to a lot into Yeah. what you're about to say next. Sorry to interrupt you. No, say next. Sorry to interrupt you. No, say next. Sorry to interrupt you. No, no, no, no. Yeah. I don't I don't I I no, no, no. Yeah. I don't I don't I I no, no, no. Yeah. I don't I don't I I see the chip on your shoulder and I see the chip on your shoulder and I see the chip on your shoulder and I admire the chip on your shoulder and I admire the chip on your shoulder and I admire the chip on your shoulder and I think it's think it's think it's » um it's well earned. Like it's well » um it's well earned. Like it's well » um it's well earned. Like it's well earned and I also know like earned and I also know like earned and I also know like » yeah it's it also is a thorn in your » yeah it's it also is a thorn in your » yeah it's it also is a thorn in your side too. like it's it side too. like it's it side too. like it's it » um » um » um » living like you have something to prove » living like you have something to prove » living like you have something to prove uh is not a way to live, you know, like uh is not a way to live, you know, like uh is not a way to live, you know, like that's you have to that's you have to that's you have to » and » and » and I have lots of things I'm trying to I have lots of things I'm trying to I have lots of things I'm trying to prove to all sorts of people on the prove to all sorts of people on the prove to all sorts of people on the » Instagram. I got I got a lot to prove, » Instagram. I got I got a lot to prove, » Instagram. I got I got a lot to prove, but I also I don't I I don't feel but I also I don't I I don't feel but I also I don't I I don't feel » I guess I feel this sort of » I guess I feel this sort of » I guess I feel this sort of responsibility to do something with what responsibility to do something with what responsibility to do something with what I've been given. And it's more just like I've been given. And it's more just like I've been given. And it's more just like that parable of the talents of like that parable of the talents of like that parable of the talents of like » you know they were not given the same » you know they were not given the same » you know they were not given the same thing like the three people in the story thing like the three people in the story thing like the three people in the story and I was like and I think I'm given and I was like and I think I'm given and I was like and I think I'm given like either medium or most like either medium or most like either medium or most » and so what do I do with that? And I » and so what do I do with that? And I » and so what do I do with that? And I think I felt accountable to like I was think I felt accountable to like I was think I felt accountable to like I was given a lot and given a lot and given a lot and » a lot's expected of me and that's not » a lot's expected of me and that's not » a lot's expected of me and that's not like a chip on my shoulder of like um I like a chip on my shoulder of like um I like a chip on my shoulder of like um I deserved more less or anything like deserved more less or anything like deserved more less or anything like that. It's just like kind of a an that. It's just like kind of a an that. It's just like kind of a an observation of like observation of like observation of like » what do I do with this? And and I think » what do I do with this? And and I think » what do I do with this? And and I think I mean if you look at the world I mean if you look at the world I mean if you look at the world economically like Americans are in the economically like Americans are in the economically like Americans are in the top 5% of like an average Americans in top 5% of like an average Americans in top 5% of like an average Americans in the top 5% of wealthiest people in the top 5% of wealthiest people in the top 5% of wealthiest people in the world. And we all should have a little world. And we all should have a little world. And we all should have a little bit of that of like we have been given a bit of that of like we have been given a bit of that of like we have been given a lot by just being privileged by living lot by just being privileged by living lot by just being privileged by living in this economy. And so what do we do in this economy. And so what do we do in this economy. And so what do we do with that? And I'm even um higher. I'm a with that? And I'm even um higher. I'm a with that? And I'm even um higher. I'm a I've been able to work for myself for I've been able to work for myself for I've been able to work for myself for years and make good money and do years and make good money and do years and make good money and do many of the things that my parents have many of the things that my parents have many of the things that my parents have had. And so what that's even more had. And so what that's even more had. And so what that's even more responsibility and just not I I don't responsibility and just not I I don't responsibility and just not I I don't take it for granted. And I also don't take it for granted. And I also don't take it for granted. And I also don't have a sense of like have a sense of like have a sense of like I was owed this or because I worked hard I was owed this or because I worked hard I was owed this or because I worked hard I deserved it because there's been lots I deserved it because there's been lots I deserved it because there's been lots of times when I worked hard and got of times when I worked hard and got of times when I worked hard and got nothing. Yeah. nothing. Yeah. nothing. Yeah. » And that happens and I think that's » And that happens and I think that's » And that happens and I think that's » Yeah. I'm still trying to sort that. I » Yeah. I'm still trying to sort that. I » Yeah. I'm still trying to sort that. I do think you're right though. I haven't do think you're right though. I haven't do think you're right though. I haven't actually thought about that until you actually thought about that until you actually thought about that until you said it. I was like, I do think we come said it. I was like, I do think we come said it. I was like, I do think we come from slightly different perspectives cuz from slightly different perspectives cuz from slightly different perspectives cuz I don't think I don't think I don't think » 100% » 100% » 100% » when I think of your family. Um I know » when I think of your family. Um I know » when I think of your family. Um I know for sure I think I can say this you for sure I think I can say this you for sure I think I can say this you didn't have the same resources that we didn't have the same resources that we didn't have the same resources that we had. You didn't have the same had. You didn't have the same had. You didn't have the same opportunities that I had. Um and opportunities that I had. Um and opportunities that I had. Um and uh as your friend I was like that kind uh as your friend I was like that kind uh as your friend I was like that kind of sucks. Like it makes me mad. Like I of sucks. Like it makes me mad. Like I of sucks. Like it makes me mad. Like I wish that you had more. wish that you had more. wish that you had more. » You shared a lot. It was great. It » You shared a lot. It was great. It » You shared a lot. It was great. It worked out great. I just, you know, was worked out great. I just, you know, was worked out great. I just, you know, was like you said, I was in your pool near like you said, I was in your pool near like you said, I was in your pool near you all the time. you all the time. you all the time. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » That's that's community, right? We had » That's that's community, right? We had » That's that's community, right? We had great and that's a part that's rich, great and that's a part that's rich, great and that's a part that's rich, too. It's like that combination of too. It's like that combination of too. It's like that combination of you're you're everybody you're you're everybody you're you're everybody regardless of your like if you have good regardless of your like if you have good regardless of your like if you have good parents and you have parents that are parents and you have parents that are parents and you have parents that are doing their best, you're rich in my doing their best, you're rich in my doing their best, you're rich in my opinion, right? So, I was opinion, right? So, I was opinion, right? So, I was » incredibly wealthy in that sense. Um, » incredibly wealthy in that sense. Um, » incredibly wealthy in that sense. Um, but to nail down that point of those but to nail down that point of those but to nail down that point of those differences, I I'm appreciate and I differences, I I'm appreciate and I differences, I I'm appreciate and I encourage everybody listening and I know encourage everybody listening and I know encourage everybody listening and I know a lot of you that do have a chip on your a lot of you that do have a chip on your a lot of you that do have a chip on your shoulder and you're grinding and you shoulder and you're grinding and you shoulder and you're grinding and you're pushing into something because of you're pushing into something because of you're pushing into something because of what wasn't in your past, right? And and what wasn't in your past, right? And and what wasn't in your past, right? And and there is good in that. There is 100% there is good in that. There is 100% there is good in that. There is 100% good in that being like a generational good in that being like a generational good in that being like a generational uh difference. And uh but I I think uh difference. And uh but I I think uh difference. And uh but I I think there's we all need someone in our life there's we all need someone in our life there's we all need someone in our life like I have a Teddy who is doing it in a like I have a Teddy who is doing it in a like I have a Teddy who is doing it in a more uh giving way uh more thoughtful more uh giving way uh more thoughtful more uh giving way uh more thoughtful way more way more way more uh bigger picture of like what is this uh bigger picture of like what is this uh bigger picture of like what is this going to do for the world? I'm not going to do for the world? I'm not going to do for the world? I'm not going to jump on any bandwagon or any like I'm to jump on any bandwagon or any like I'm to jump on any bandwagon or any like I'm not going to jump into something just to not going to jump into something just to not going to jump into something just to make money. I'm going to jump into make money. I'm going to jump into make money. I'm going to jump into something to make enough money and a something to make enough money and a something to make enough money and a difference has kind of always been your difference has kind of always been your difference has kind of always been your thought process. I've never heard you thought process. I've never heard you thought process. I've never heard you once say there's like a lot of people once say there's like a lot of people once say there's like a lot of people have that number or whatever and you're have that number or whatever and you're have that number or whatever and you're just kind of like I'm good you know if I just kind of like I'm good you know if I just kind of like I'm good you know if I if I make this and I build this and then if I make this and I build this and then if I make this and I build this and then if this happens and it very well could if this happens and it very well could if this happens and it very well could that's great but the purpose behind that's great but the purpose behind that's great but the purpose behind it is bigger than the money for you and it is bigger than the money for you and it is bigger than the money for you and that has helped me tremendously and that has helped me tremendously and that has helped me tremendously and that is a balance I need and I think the is a balance I need and I think the is a balance I need and I think the other side of it is I think sometimes I other side of it is I think sometimes I other side of it is I think sometimes I bring in something to you that's a bring in something to you that's a bring in something to you that's a little more uh selfish and capitalistic little more uh selfish and capitalistic little more uh selfish and capitalistic and to you to Hey, go go go go get that and to you to Hey, go go go go get that and to you to Hey, go go go go get that nut. Like you can it's okay. Like go nut. Like you can it's okay. Like go nut. Like you can it's okay. Like go after this and you can build this and after this and you can build this and after this and you can build this and don't worry about what they think, don't worry about what they think, don't worry about what they think, right? And right? And right? And » there's combinations really helped me a » there's combinations really helped me a » there's combinations really helped me a ton. And I'm not shouldn't speak for ton. And I'm not shouldn't speak for ton. And I'm not shouldn't speak for you, but there's definitely been times you, but there's definitely been times you, but there's definitely been times where I've um where I've um where I've um » sat on the bench or passed the ball when » sat on the bench or passed the ball when » sat on the bench or passed the ball when I should have shot it. Like there's I should have shot it. Like there's I should have shot it. Like there's there's times where I've like played there's times where I've like played there's times where I've like played down and not like went really went for down and not like went really went for down and not like went really went for it. And it was actually um I appreciate it. And it was actually um I appreciate it. And it was actually um I appreciate you framing as altruistic. It was it was you framing as altruistic. It was it was you framing as altruistic. It was it was more insecurity and fear of failure more insecurity and fear of failure more insecurity and fear of failure where I'm like ah I don't want to take where I'm like ah I don't want to take where I'm like ah I don't want to take that shot. I don't want to take that shot. I don't want to take that shot. I don't want to take that shot. You've taken so many more shots shot. You've taken so many more shots shot. You've taken so many more shots than I have. And while I'm tolerable of than I have. And while I'm tolerable of than I have. And while I'm tolerable of risk I think I'm on the of the spectrum risk I think I'm on the of the spectrum risk I think I'm on the of the spectrum of entrepreneurs. I'm definitely on the of entrepreneurs. I'm definitely on the of entrepreneurs. I'm definitely on the lower side of and it's not I still feel lower side of and it's not I still feel lower side of and it's not I still feel shame when I fail and I I'm very shame when I fail and I I'm very shame when I fail and I I'm very riskaverse in that way. Even though I'm riskaverse in that way. Even though I'm riskaverse in that way. Even though I'm an entrepreneur and I take risks all the an entrepreneur and I take risks all the an entrepreneur and I take risks all the time and I don't know where my money's time and I don't know where my money's time and I don't know where my money's going to come from in the next 6 months, going to come from in the next 6 months, going to come from in the next 6 months, like I I don't know. I can live with like I I don't know. I can live with like I I don't know. I can live with that ambiguity, but there's still when I that ambiguity, but there's still when I that ambiguity, but there's still when I look at you, like you're a pure look at you, like you're a pure look at you, like you're a pure entrepreneur in that, man, you just you entrepreneur in that, man, you just you entrepreneur in that, man, you just you just hit the deck every time and just go just hit the deck every time and just go just hit the deck every time and just go for it. You lay out for stuff that I'm for it. You lay out for stuff that I'm for it. You lay out for stuff that I'm like, man, I don't I don't have that. I like, man, I don't I don't have that. I like, man, I don't I don't have that. I don't have the guts for that. And you've don't have the guts for that. And you've don't have the guts for that. And you've taken more lumps than me, too. And uh I taken more lumps than me, too. And uh I taken more lumps than me, too. And uh I don't know which way works better. But I don't know which way works better. But I don't know which way works better. But I think I think maybe it's also think I think maybe it's also think I think maybe it's also » it's less important the I mean it's » it's less important the I mean it's » it's less important the I mean it's » obvious money is a scoreboard, right? » obvious money is a scoreboard, right? » obvious money is a scoreboard, right? We're competing, right? We're competing, right? We're competing, right? » Yeah. I was gonna say the older I » Yeah. I was gonna say the older I » Yeah. I was gonna say the older I get and the tire I get, um they're get and the tire I get, um they're get and the tire I get, um they're somewhere in the middle of everything. somewhere in the middle of everything. somewhere in the middle of everything. » It's like all of my heroes, I want a » It's like all of my heroes, I want a » It's like all of my heroes, I want a piece of that, right? You know, I I just piece of that, right? You know, I I just piece of that, right? You know, I I just think that's life. It's it's a it's a think that's life. It's it's a it's a think that's life. It's it's a it's a balancing act. And you can go allin balancing act. And you can go allin balancing act. And you can go allin unapologetic, conquer something, and unapologetic, conquer something, and unapologetic, conquer something, and still build the most important thing in still build the most important thing in still build the most important thing in the world, which is community. the world, which is community. the world, which is community. » Yeah. and purpose. There's nothing else » Yeah. and purpose. There's nothing else » Yeah. and purpose. There's nothing else beyond that. My goodness, when that beyond that. My goodness, when that beyond that. My goodness, when that identity » is around uh your business and it being » is around uh your business and it being » is around uh your business and it being successful like when successful like when successful like when » the thing you build becoming successful » the thing you build becoming successful » the thing you build becoming successful is your identity and purpose. is your identity and purpose. is your identity and purpose. That's a low time and that's two years That's a low time and that's two years That's a low time and that's two years of therapy to unwrap. of therapy to unwrap. of therapy to unwrap. » There you go. Thank you right there. » There you go. Thank you right there. » There you go. Thank you right there. Send me the book. That's great. Send me the book. That's great. Send me the book. That's great. » Uh but anyway, we're we'll stay on » Uh but anyway, we're we'll stay on » Uh but anyway, we're we'll stay on target here. purpose. I think I think target here. purpose. I think I think target here. purpose. I think I think that experience with um Macy and Silas that experience with um Macy and Silas that experience with um Macy and Silas and meeting them, I think there was more and meeting them, I think there was more and meeting them, I think there was more to it. That's that's just one to it. That's that's just one to it. That's that's just one experience. But uh Ellie and I felt this experience. But uh Ellie and I felt this experience. But uh Ellie and I felt this need to do something. I went to Ghana need to do something. I went to Ghana need to do something. I went to Ghana when I was 21, I think, to visit the when I was 21, I think, to visit the when I was 21, I think, to visit the father's house, and there was these father's house, and there was these father's house, and there was these eight boys who were brought out of child eight boys who were brought out of child eight boys who were brought out of child labor. They'd been working in the labor. They'd been working in the labor. They'd been working in the fishing industry. Brought to this beach, fishing industry. Brought to this beach, fishing industry. Brought to this beach, this beautiful house called the father's this beautiful house called the father's this beautiful house called the father's house. And I spent about a month with house. And I spent about a month with house. And I spent about a month with them. uh a friends of ours from church them. uh a friends of ours from church them. uh a friends of ours from church had started it and invited us to be a had started it and invited us to be a had started it and invited us to be a part of it is just really stunning and I part of it is just really stunning and I part of it is just really stunning and I think what that experience created for think what that experience created for think what that experience created for me was I've always been um a religious me was I've always been um a religious me was I've always been um a religious person I've had a spiritual background person I've had a spiritual background person I've had a spiritual background but so often particularly if you if but so often particularly if you if but so often particularly if you if there's no suffering in your life which there's no suffering in your life which there's no suffering in your life which I had very little of um I've got I have I had very little of um I've got I have I had very little of um I've got I have little a little suffering I got a little a little suffering I got a little a little suffering I got a little bit of a little some notes on childhood bit of a little some notes on childhood bit of a little some notes on childhood but mostly in aggregate I I I didn't but mostly in aggregate I I I didn't but mostly in aggregate I I I didn't know suffering particularly when I go to know suffering particularly when I go to know suffering particularly when I go to the father's house in Ghana I was like the father's house in Ghana I was like the father's house in Ghana I was like oh I didn't I didn't know suffering um oh I didn't I didn't know suffering um oh I didn't I didn't know suffering um when let me think how I want to say this these boys were in these boys were in bondage and captivity in a way that they bondage and captivity in a way that they bondage and captivity in a way that they were not able to have childhoods and were not able to have childhoods and were not able to have childhoods and they were being used to do manual labor they were being used to do manual labor they were being used to do manual labor as five, six, seven, eight year olds. as five, six, seven, eight year olds. as five, six, seven, eight year olds. And then someone intervened and said, And then someone intervened and said, And then someone intervened and said, "This will not stand." "This will not stand." "This will not stand." And they rallied resources and money and And they rallied resources and money and And they rallied resources and money and time and effort and energy and time and effort and energy and time and effort and energy and communities to all agree we won't allow communities to all agree we won't allow communities to all agree we won't allow this. And they intervened for these this. And they intervened for these this. And they intervened for these eight boys. And they were brought out of eight boys. And they were brought out of eight boys. And they were brought out of that environment into this new one that environment into this new one that environment into this new one called the father's house. And there was called the father's house. And there was called the father's house. And there was lots of language about lots of language about lots of language about captivity to freedom, which is one of captivity to freedom, which is one of captivity to freedom, which is one of the like central metaphors of the like central metaphors of the like central metaphors of the Christian faith. Christian faith. Christian faith. And as an American living in the early And as an American living in the early And as an American living in the early aunts up until now, I know nothing of aunts up until now, I know nothing of aunts up until now, I know nothing of captivity and bondage. captivity and bondage. captivity and bondage. » I know nothing of it. But then I went » I know nothing of it. But then I went » I know nothing of it. But then I went over in ocean to see these people and I over in ocean to see these people and I over in ocean to see these people and I witnessed it firsthand and I was like witnessed it firsthand and I was like witnessed it firsthand and I was like these people that rallied all of these people that rallied all of these people that rallied all of the support were motivated by this idea, support were motivated by this idea, support were motivated by this idea, this spiritual idea that God is good and this spiritual idea that God is good and this spiritual idea that God is good and he will not stand for these things. And he will not stand for these things. And he will not stand for these things. And that is a powerful thing. It's the same that is a powerful thing. It's the same that is a powerful thing. It's the same instinct that led my parents to Ethiopia instinct that led my parents to Ethiopia instinct that led my parents to Ethiopia to adopt those kids. And it's what led to adopt those kids. And it's what led to adopt those kids. And it's what led me and Ellie to say there's more for us me and Ellie to say there's more for us me and Ellie to say there's more for us to do here. And so a few years after I to do here. And so a few years after I to do here. And so a few years after I visited the father's house, um Ellie and visited the father's house, um Ellie and visited the father's house, um Ellie and I started eight oaks, which was a house I started eight oaks, which was a house I started eight oaks, which was a house for eight girls who were living in the for eight girls who were living in the for eight girls who were living in the same conditions as the boys. And uh we same conditions as the boys. And uh we same conditions as the boys. And uh we created the yellow house um which they created the yellow house um which they created the yellow house um which they could grow up in. And we brought them could grow up in. And we brought them could grow up in. And we brought them out of that environment with the help of out of that environment with the help of out of that environment with the help of lots of people, lots of funders. The lots of people, lots of funders. The lots of people, lots of funders. The founders of the father's house, Matt founders of the father's house, Matt founders of the father's house, Matt Garrett and Jeff Miller, um gave us so Garrett and Jeff Miller, um gave us so Garrett and Jeff Miller, um gave us so much help and assistance as we were much help and assistance as we were much help and assistance as we were getting it off the ground. our leaders getting it off the ground. our leaders getting it off the ground. our leaders in Ghana. Bernard Atachi is just a saint in Ghana. Bernard Atachi is just a saint in Ghana. Bernard Atachi is just a saint above saints um who came out of above saints um who came out of above saints um who came out of retirement to lead this organization and retirement to lead this organization and retirement to lead this organization and all the social welfare officers and all the social welfare officers and all the social welfare officers and social workers who helped navigate this. social workers who helped navigate this. social workers who helped navigate this. Um there was lots of people involved Um there was lots of people involved Um there was lots of people involved but we essentially intervened. That's but we essentially intervened. That's but we essentially intervened. That's the simplest way I can say it. And now the simplest way I can say it. And now the simplest way I can say it. And now these girls were brought out of that these girls were brought out of that these girls were brought out of that environment and into the yellow house. I environment and into the yellow house. I environment and into the yellow house. I think a really cool thing about that think a really cool thing about that think a really cool thing about that story is they were between like 5 and story is they were between like 5 and story is they were between like 5 and 10. That was 2013. It's 2026. Sarah 10. That was 2013. It's 2026. Sarah 10. That was 2013. It's 2026. Sarah Senior just enrolled in college. She Senior just enrolled in college. She Senior just enrolled in college. She wants to be an entrepreneur. wants to be an entrepreneur. wants to be an entrepreneur. And uh And uh And uh » in one generation, less than 20 years, » in one generation, less than 20 years, » in one generation, less than 20 years, these girls will go from the absolute these girls will go from the absolute these girls will go from the absolute bottom of an economy of a global economy bottom of an economy of a global economy bottom of an economy of a global economy um living in truly extreme poverty, less um living in truly extreme poverty, less um living in truly extreme poverty, less than $2 a day, subsistence living to than $2 a day, subsistence living to than $2 a day, subsistence living to among the best educated women in their among the best educated women in their among the best educated women in their country. Uh the economic mobility that's country. Uh the economic mobility that's country. Uh the economic mobility that's made possible by this intervention in made possible by this intervention in made possible by this intervention in just this short time is staggering. and just this short time is staggering. and just this short time is staggering. and the ramifications of it for generations the ramifications of it for generations the ramifications of it for generations to come are um it's overwhelming to to come are um it's overwhelming to to come are um it's overwhelming to think of. And maybe even just more think of. And maybe even just more think of. And maybe even just more specifically, specifically, specifically, these girls lived in the same home, these girls lived in the same home, these girls lived in the same home, the Yellow House, Yellow House, Yellow House, for 13 years, and it remains their safe for 13 years, and it remains their safe for 13 years, and it remains their safe haven that they can come back to haven that they can come back to haven that they can come back to anytime. anytime. anytime. uh they be in in that way in just that uh they be in in that way in just that uh they be in in that way in just that specific way they got a better specific way they got a better specific way they got a better experience than most foster care kids experience than most foster care kids experience than most foster care kids get in America where they're going from get in America where they're going from get in America where they're going from home to home to home to home these girls home to home to home to home these girls home to home to home to home these girls had one place they had no stability no had one place they had no stability no had one place they had no stability no security uh for most of their most security uh for most of their most security uh for most of their most vulnerable parts of their childhood and vulnerable parts of their childhood and vulnerable parts of their childhood and then they've had security and stability then they've had security and stability then they've had security and stability since then and I think the ability of us since then and I think the ability of us since then and I think the ability of us and even like if I can just be really and even like if I can just be really and even like if I can just be really humble about this for a very small humble about this for a very small humble about this for a very small amount of money over the course of 13 amount of money over the course of 13 amount of money over the course of 13 years for us to have been able to make years for us to have been able to make years for us to have been able to make that intervention. I'm almost that intervention. I'm almost that intervention. I'm almost embarrassed because there should have embarrassed because there should have embarrassed because there should have been so much more. We have so much more been so much more. We have so much more been so much more. We have so much more here. There's so much more we could do. here. There's so much more we could do. here. There's so much more we could do. It was just these eight. It was just these eight. It was just these eight. » Um in so that other way though, I think » Um in so that other way though, I think » Um in so that other way though, I think um if we get really focused on their um if we get really focused on their um if we get really focused on their lives specifically, they've been lives specifically, they've been lives specifically, they've been transformed in this really profound and transformed in this really profound and transformed in this really profound and beautiful way. And so beautiful way. And so beautiful way. And so that when I talk about feeling things in that when I talk about feeling things in that when I talk about feeling things in my bones, my bones, my bones, the only reason that worked, Ellie and I the only reason that worked, Ellie and I the only reason that worked, Ellie and I were 22. were 22. were 22. We had no business doing that. No We had no business doing that. No We had no business doing that. No business. No authority, no credibility, business. No authority, no credibility, business. No authority, no credibility, no experience, background training. Uh no experience, background training. Uh no experience, background training. Uh the only way that we were able to do it the only way that we were able to do it the only way that we were able to do it was conviction. was conviction. was conviction. » And people saw that in our eyes. They » And people saw that in our eyes. They » And people saw that in our eyes. They just saw the fire in our belly and they just saw the fire in our belly and they just saw the fire in our belly and they were like they're probably going to do were like they're probably going to do were like they're probably going to do something like and they were willing to something like and they were willing to something like and they were willing to give in support and it was bumpy. I'll give in support and it was bumpy. I'll give in support and it was bumpy. I'll tell you some training would have been tell you some training would have been tell you some training would have been nice like there I wish there we should nice like there I wish there we should nice like there I wish there we should have read a book or something. We had to have read a book or something. We had to have read a book or something. We had to bumble our way through it but bumble our way through it but bumble our way through it but that's what everyone does. That's what that's what everyone does. That's what that's what everyone does. That's what everyone does if you're doing something everyone does if you're doing something everyone does if you're doing something new. It's always going to be flailing new. It's always going to be flailing new. It's always going to be flailing forward. And that's what we did. and forward. And that's what we did. and forward. And that's what we did. and it was painful and hard and difficult it was painful and hard and difficult it was painful and hard and difficult and profound and beautiful. And so I and profound and beautiful. And so I and profound and beautiful. And so I think that think that think that when I was 22, I wasn't thinking about when I was 22, I wasn't thinking about when I was 22, I wasn't thinking about what I'd be saying when I was 36. I was what I'd be saying when I was 36. I was what I'd be saying when I was 36. I was only thinking about a year or two ahead. only thinking about a year or two ahead. only thinking about a year or two ahead. But now to have had that be the But now to have had that be the But now to have had that be the throughline of my entire life and I it's throughline of my entire life and I it's throughline of my entire life and I it's not a career. It's like these are my not a career. It's like these are my not a career. It's like these are my family members. Um family members. Um family members. Um » I it it does get into everything. And I » I it it does get into everything. And I » I it it does get into everything. And I think you see that in my entrepreneurial think you see that in my entrepreneurial think you see that in my entrepreneurial journey of like there's something journey of like there's something journey of like there's something weighted below it of like one of the big weighted below it of like one of the big weighted below it of like one of the big reasons I wanted to be an entrepreneur reasons I wanted to be an entrepreneur reasons I wanted to be an entrepreneur is cuz I wanted to be able to go to is cuz I wanted to be able to go to is cuz I wanted to be able to go to Ghana whenever I wanted Ghana whenever I wanted Ghana whenever I wanted » for whenever I wanted. And I was like a » for whenever I wanted. And I was like a » for whenever I wanted. And I was like a real job with a salary. And let me add real job with a salary. And let me add real job with a salary. And let me add to that. I want to be able to go to to that. I want to be able to go to to that. I want to be able to go to Ghana whenever I want whenever I need to Ghana whenever I want whenever I need to Ghana whenever I want whenever I need to and it not be my vacation and it not be my vacation and it not be my vacation » because when I go I work. Yeah. » because when I go I work. Yeah. » because when I go I work. Yeah. » It is work. I was like and I know I also » It is work. I was like and I know I also » It is work. I was like and I know I also need vacation. like I can't just go need vacation. like I can't just go need vacation. like I can't just go where I have two weeks paid vacation a where I have two weeks paid vacation a where I have two weeks paid vacation a year. That's not enough. I need four or year. That's not enough. I need four or year. That's not enough. I need four or six or eight. And when I went and asked six or eight. And when I went and asked six or eight. And when I went and asked for that in the marketplace, they were for that in the marketplace, they were for that in the marketplace, they were like, like, like, » that's ridiculous. And I was like, well, » that's ridiculous. And I was like, well, » that's ridiculous. And I was like, well, this is where I get my dad. I was like, this is where I get my dad. I was like, this is where I get my dad. I was like, then I'll make my own way. I'll make my then I'll make my own way. I'll make my then I'll make my own way. I'll make my own way. Like, that's not ridiculous. My own way. Like, that's not ridiculous. My own way. Like, that's not ridiculous. My dad coached every one of my games for dad coached every one of my games for dad coached every one of my games for all of these kids. Like, all of these kids. Like, all of these kids. Like, » yeah, » yeah, » yeah, » that's stupid. » that's stupid. » that's stupid. » And sometimes I just That's stupid. I'm » And sometimes I just That's stupid. I'm » And sometimes I just That's stupid. I'm not doing that. And that not doing that. And that not doing that. And that opens a lot of doors when you're that opens a lot of doors when you're that opens a lot of doors when you're willing to reject some things like that. willing to reject some things like that. willing to reject some things like that. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. It's good. It's good. It's good. » So much so much in between there to » So much so much in between there to » So much so much in between there to unpack. Um I I that's my brain hurts unpack. Um I I that's my brain hurts unpack. Um I I that's my brain hurts thinking you were 22. I didn't realize thinking you were 22. I didn't realize thinking you were 22. I didn't realize that you were that young. that you were that young. that you were that young. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » That's » That's » That's 14 years ago. 14 years ago. 14 years ago. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Jeez. » Jeez. » Jeez. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » That's crazy. » That's crazy. » That's crazy. » I see kids that are 22 now and I'm just » I see kids that are 22 now and I'm just » I see kids that are 22 now and I'm just like » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Were there no adults in the room to talk » Were there no adults in the room to talk » Were there no adults in the room to talk me out of this? me out of this? me out of this? » Talk me out of this. And then I and then » Talk me out of this. And then I and then » Talk me out of this. And then I and then I think like more critically and I was I think like more critically and I was I think like more critically and I was like there were adults in the room and like there were adults in the room and like there were adults in the room and they did try to talk me out of it. they did try to talk me out of it. they did try to talk me out of it. » There was it was there was no » There was it was there was no » There was it was there was no » that you can't the conviction. It had » that you can't the conviction. It had » that you can't the conviction. It had already taken root. It was too late. And already taken root. It was too late. And already taken root. It was too late. And I think some of the best adults in my I think some of the best adults in my I think some of the best adults in my life I can remember this. My grandpa my life I can remember this. My grandpa my life I can remember this. My grandpa my granddad was one of them. He was like granddad was one of them. He was like granddad was one of them. He was like terrified for me. terrified for me. terrified for me. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And tried to talk me out of it. I was » And tried to talk me out of it. I was » And tried to talk me out of it. I was like this is a massive responsibility. like this is a massive responsibility. like this is a massive responsibility. this is not good for your career. And this is not good for your career. And this is not good for your career. And that was true. Like he he was true and that was true. Like he he was true and that was true. Like he he was true and wise and when it happened, he became a wise and when it happened, he became a wise and when it happened, he became a big donor. big donor. big donor. » Like there's this thing of like I don't » Like there's this thing of like I don't » Like there's this thing of like I don't want you to make this choice. want you to make this choice. want you to make this choice. » But then once they do to get in the boat » But then once they do to get in the boat » But then once they do to get in the boat with them, with them, with them, » like just there's just something so » like just there's just something so » like just there's just something so profound about that. And that's the way profound about that. And that's the way profound about that. And that's the way um Jeff and Matt were when and um Jeff and Matt were when and um Jeff and Matt were when and supporting us. They were always pro us supporting us. They were always pro us supporting us. They were always pro us doing it because I was trying to get doing it because I was trying to get doing it because I was trying to get them to do it and them to do it and them to do it and » they were like, "No, » they were like, "No, » they were like, "No, » we're good. Thanks." And um the » we're good. Thanks." And um the » we're good. Thanks." And um the responsibility like the generosity they responsibility like the generosity they responsibility like the generosity they have in just saying we'll share have in just saying we'll share have in just saying we'll share everything we know with you and um the everything we know with you and um the everything we know with you and um the trust they extended. So without help, it trust they extended. So without help, it trust they extended. So without help, it wouldn't have happened. But I also I wouldn't have happened. But I also I wouldn't have happened. But I also I think critically about that sometimes think critically about that sometimes think critically about that sometimes because I like if someone at 22 came to because I like if someone at 22 came to because I like if someone at 22 came to me and was like, "I want to do what you me and was like, "I want to do what you me and was like, "I want to do what you did." What would I tell them? Well, did." What would I tell them? Well, did." What would I tell them? Well, what' you tell him? what' you tell him? what' you tell him? I think I' I think I' I definitely would want to I think I' I definitely would want to It depended on what they would ask. If It depended on what they would ask. If It depended on what they would ask. If they asked whether I should or shouldn't they asked whether I should or shouldn't they asked whether I should or shouldn't do it, I'd say you are the only do it, I'd say you are the only do it, I'd say you are the only person that can make that choice. Um, person that can make that choice. Um, person that can make that choice. Um, and they have to make it for themselves and they have to make it for themselves and they have to make it for themselves and they have to own it deep because and they have to own it deep because and they have to own it deep because they're going to be major consequences. they're going to be major consequences. they're going to be major consequences. Ellie and I have I'd say I didn't suffer Ellie and I have I'd say I didn't suffer Ellie and I have I'd say I didn't suffer in my childhood. We have suffered in in my childhood. We have suffered in in my childhood. We have suffered in adulthood. adulthood. adulthood. It is painful to love people. It's so It is painful to love people. It's so It is painful to love people. It's so painful because they will let you down. painful because they will let you down. painful because they will let you down. They will disappoint you. The girls the They will disappoint you. The girls the They will disappoint you. The girls the girls have been delightful in every girls have been delightful in every girls have been delightful in every single way. But it takes a team to do single way. But it takes a team to do single way. But it takes a team to do these things. And so we have we have these things. And so we have we have these things. And so we have we have experienced a tremendous amount of by experienced a tremendous amount of by experienced a tremendous amount of by taking on these responsibilities. It has taking on these responsibilities. It has taking on these responsibilities. It has brought us pain and hardship. Um brought us pain and hardship. Um brought us pain and hardship. Um that is a delight in the end. is a delight in the end. is a delight in the end. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » When you get out of it, it's all of this » When you get out of it, it's all of this » When you get out of it, it's all of this is goodness. Uh if they asked me if I is goodness. Uh if they asked me if I is goodness. Uh if they asked me if I should do it, there has been times where should do it, there has been times where should do it, there has been times where I would have said don't do it. And I I would have said don't do it. And I I would have said don't do it. And I regret those times in my life where I regret those times in my life where I regret those times in my life where I felt that cuz I think that was wrong. felt that cuz I think that was wrong. felt that cuz I think that was wrong. That was wrong-headed. It was too I was That was wrong-headed. It was too I was That was wrong-headed. It was too I was too lost in my grief um of having done too lost in my grief um of having done too lost in my grief um of having done this really hard thing and the pain it's this really hard thing and the pain it's this really hard thing and the pain it's caused. uh if they asked questions like I think the same way that professor said I think the same way that professor said why don't you go work at a pneumatic why don't you go work at a pneumatic why don't you go work at a pneumatic tube company for two years tube company for two years tube company for two years to test I I would ask questions like to test I I would ask questions like to test I I would ask questions like that of like are there what are some that of like are there what are some that of like are there what are some ways that you can um on-ramp to this to ways that you can um on-ramp to this to ways that you can um on-ramp to this to sift through your conviction cuz you sift through your conviction cuz you sift through your conviction cuz you probably need time and I think me going probably need time and I think me going probably need time and I think me going to Ghana for a month was part of that to Ghana for a month was part of that to Ghana for a month was part of that on-ramp but it wasn't like I got back on-ramp but it wasn't like I got back on-ramp but it wasn't like I got back from that And immediately it was like from that And immediately it was like from that And immediately it was like start an organization. There was like a start an organization. There was like a start an organization. There was like a year or two years of like an on-ramp to year or two years of like an on-ramp to year or two years of like an on-ramp to where sort of letting it build momentum where sort of letting it build momentum where sort of letting it build momentum and I had a steam behind it. And so I and I had a steam behind it. And so I and I had a steam behind it. And so I think I definitely I I I hope I would think I definitely I I I hope I would think I definitely I I I hope I would not try to talk them out of it. I hope I not try to talk them out of it. I hope I not try to talk them out of it. I hope I would not try to talk them out of it. would not try to talk them out of it. would not try to talk them out of it. But I also uh I hope that But I also uh I hope that But I also uh I hope that it scares me to think of them trying it it scares me to think of them trying it it scares me to think of them trying it without conviction. without conviction. without conviction. » So much harm is done. I think, you know, » So much harm is done. I think, you know, » So much harm is done. I think, you know, the road to hell is paved with good the road to hell is paved with good the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And you think of all of intentions. And you think of all of intentions. And you think of all of these good intended efforts that fail. these good intended efforts that fail. these good intended efforts that fail. You think of just think about all You think of just think about all You think of just think about all the dogs that are in animal shelters. the dogs that are in animal shelters. the dogs that are in animal shelters. » That's sad. Like I know we're talking » That's sad. Like I know we're talking » That's sad. Like I know we're talking about people and that's like a lesser about people and that's like a lesser about people and that's like a lesser like but like but like but like » that makes me sad. That's like so many » that makes me sad. That's like so many » that makes me sad. That's like so many good intentions. good intentions. good intentions. » There isn't the conviction behind it. » There isn't the conviction behind it. » There isn't the conviction behind it. » And I think I I hope I could bring some » And I think I I hope I could bring some » And I think I I hope I could bring some sobriety to that decision maybe as they sobriety to that decision maybe as they sobriety to that decision maybe as they were thinking through it. I hope I would were thinking through it. I hope I would were thinking through it. I hope I would not talk them out of it. And more than not talk them out of it. And more than not talk them out of it. And more than anything, once they made the choice, anything, once they made the choice, anything, once they made the choice, I hope I'm the type of person that gets I hope I'm the type of person that gets I hope I'm the type of person that gets in the boat with them because that I in the boat with them because that I in the boat with them because that I think more than anything is what I think more than anything is what I think more than anything is what I needed was people rowing with me. And needed was people rowing with me. And needed was people rowing with me. And like the last thing I needed when I got like the last thing I needed when I got like the last thing I needed when I got hard was like, hard was like, hard was like, » "We told you so." » No, no [ __ ] It was hard. Thanks. Yeah, » No, no [ __ ] It was hard. Thanks. Yeah, it is hard. Well, just the consequence it is hard. Well, just the consequence it is hard. Well, just the consequence of not seeing it through. If you halfway of not seeing it through. If you halfway of not seeing it through. If you halfway get the house ready and you bring eight get the house ready and you bring eight get the house ready and you bring eight girls in and then the money runs out girls in and then the money runs out girls in and then the money runs out » and you stop facilitating and you're not » and you stop facilitating and you're not » and you stop facilitating and you're not managing the help and then they relocate managing the help and then they relocate managing the help and then they relocate again cuz the project fails. It's not again cuz the project fails. It's not again cuz the project fails. It's not like » you're doing more » you're doing more » you're doing more » starting a company state side and it » starting a company state side and it » starting a company state side and it shuts down and you're, you know, shuts down and you're, you know, shuts down and you're, you know, » the stakes are so high. » the stakes are so high. » the stakes are so high. » The stakes are so high. I mean, there's » The stakes are so high. I mean, there's » The stakes are so high. I mean, there's there's hurt in anything you build, but there's hurt in anything you build, but there's hurt in anything you build, but at that level, you're talking about, and at that level, you're talking about, and at that level, you're talking about, and I'm sure that was your grandpa's I'm sure that was your grandpa's I'm sure that was your grandpa's concern. concern. concern. » He was like, "Yeah, you're not » He was like, "Yeah, you're not » He was like, "Yeah, you're not responsible." responsible." responsible." » Raising eight girls, right? like at its » Raising eight girls, right? like at its » Raising eight girls, right? like at its core you there was locals raising them core you there was locals raising them core you there was locals raising them but I mean at the end of the day but I mean at the end of the day but I mean at the end of the day » you and Ellie put so much on the back » you and Ellie put so much on the back » you and Ellie put so much on the back burner your career your entrepreneurial burner your career your entrepreneurial burner your career your entrepreneurial activities having kids like that was activities having kids like that was activities having kids like that was your » and that and that is painful » and that and that is painful » and that and that is painful to say the least when you have eight to say the least when you have eight to say the least when you have eight children that live in another country children that live in another country children that live in another country » that feel like your children they're » that feel like your children they're » that feel like your children they're family but they feel like your children family but they feel like your children family but they feel like your children and I remember those dark moments of and I remember those dark moments of and I remember those dark moments of what is this I need to start doing my what is this I need to start doing my what is this I need to start doing my Now that transition of you figuring out Now that transition of you figuring out Now that transition of you figuring out how to do your life after giving your how to do your life after giving your how to do your life after giving your life for so long life for so long life for so long » to that » to that » to that » it was it was hard cuz when we came back » it was it was hard cuz when we came back » it was it was hard cuz when we came back so we when we launched the yellow house so we when we launched the yellow house so we when we launched the yellow house we were there for 4 months. One of the we were there for 4 months. One of the we were there for 4 months. One of the painful parts was that we thought we painful parts was that we thought we painful parts was that we thought we were just going to live in Ghana almost were just going to live in Ghana almost were just going to live in Ghana almost as like missionaries and I think a lot as like missionaries and I think a lot as like missionaries and I think a lot of wisdom Jeff and Matt being like of wisdom Jeff and Matt being like of wisdom Jeff and Matt being like actually that's not the thing that actually that's not the thing that actually that's not the thing that you're supposed to do. You're supposed you're supposed to do. You're supposed you're supposed to do. You're supposed to come back to the states and raise to come back to the states and raise to come back to the states and raise money which I was like that is not what money which I was like that is not what money which I was like that is not what I wanted to do. that is not why I signed I wanted to do. that is not why I signed I wanted to do. that is not why I signed up for this. Like I wanted to care for up for this. Like I wanted to care for up for this. Like I wanted to care for these girls and they were like that's these girls and they were like that's these girls and they were like that's how you do it how you do it how you do it » if you don't do that. » if you don't do that. » if you don't do that. » How who will the money come from? And so » How who will the money come from? And so » How who will the money come from? And so we had to ask friends of ours who did a we had to ask friends of ours who did a we had to ask friends of ours who did a wonderful job, Landon and Kate Loftton. wonderful job, Landon and Kate Loftton. wonderful job, Landon and Kate Loftton. They spent I mean they put their careers They spent I mean they put their careers They spent I mean they put their careers on hold and the call and all the on hold and the call and all the on hold and the call and all the different things like a huge sacrifice different things like a huge sacrifice different things like a huge sacrifice on their part. They spent two years or a on their part. They spent two years or a on their part. They spent two years or a year and a half helping establish the year and a half helping establish the year and a half helping establish the yellow house before we were able to yellow house before we were able to yellow house before we were able to transition to just fully Ganaian transition to just fully Ganaian transition to just fully Ganaian leadership. leadership. leadership. That sucked. I wanted to be there with That sucked. I wanted to be there with That sucked. I wanted to be there with the girls. I didn't want to come back the girls. I didn't want to come back the girls. I didn't want to come back and like glad hand with donors and try and like glad hand with donors and try and like glad hand with donors and try and raise money and I hated raising and raise money and I hated raising and raise money and I hated raising money. Um, which that's a thing. I money. Um, which that's a thing. I money. Um, which that's a thing. I started a nonprofit and then realized, started a nonprofit and then realized, started a nonprofit and then realized, oh, I don't like ask me before money oh, I don't like ask me before money oh, I don't like ask me before money when that's like my only job for the when that's like my only job for the when that's like my only job for the rest of the existence. That that will be rest of the existence. That that will be rest of the existence. That that will be my job. It's like, my job. It's like, my job. It's like, » well, you will learn to do things that » well, you will learn to do things that » well, you will learn to do things that are necessary are necessary are necessary » when you take on this responsibility. I » when you take on this responsibility. I » when you take on this responsibility. I think that's I learned to do it. I think that's I learned to do it. I think that's I learned to do it. I didn't even do it particularly well, but didn't even do it particularly well, but didn't even do it particularly well, but I learned to do enough to provide for I learned to do enough to provide for I learned to do enough to provide for them all of this way. them all of this way. them all of this way. » Yeah. For the sake of your time, I'm going to For the sake of your time, I'm going to take us from that quick plug. Go check take us from that quick plug. Go check take us from that quick plug. Go check out 8 oaks.org. out 8 oaks.org. out 8 oaks.org. » Yeah. Uh the number8 oaks.org. » Yeah. Uh the number8 oaks.org. » Yeah. Uh the number8 oaks.org. Plug. Plug. Plug. » Let me say one thing. » Let me say one thing. » Let me say one thing. » Yeah. Go. Because I was going to plug » Yeah. Go. Because I was going to plug » Yeah. Go. Because I was going to plug the newsletter. The annual letter. the newsletter. The annual letter. the newsletter. The annual letter. » Yeah. the annual letters to » Yeah. the annual letters to » Yeah. the annual letters to » Ellie » Ellie » Ellie » Hay and I every year it comes in and we » Hay and I every year it comes in and we » Hay and I every year it comes in and we both are like who gets to read it first both are like who gets to read it first both are like who gets to read it first like that's so great like that's so great like that's so great » Ellie does a tremendous job and that's » Ellie does a tremendous job and that's » Ellie does a tremendous job and that's really it that's the extent of our really it that's the extent of our really it that's the extent of our marketing operations is that letter that marketing operations is that letter that marketing operations is that letter that Ellie writes every year but I'm glad Ellie writes every year but I'm glad Ellie writes every year but I'm glad that you like it that you like it that you like it » yeah we we've taken a scarcity approach » yeah we we've taken a scarcity approach » yeah we we've taken a scarcity approach to this I don't know if that's a good to this I don't know if that's a good to this I don't know if that's a good marketing strategy maybe you could tell marketing strategy maybe you could tell marketing strategy maybe you could tell me uh one of the things we've been able me uh one of the things we've been able me uh one of the things we've been able to sustain this whole time which has to sustain this whole time which has to sustain this whole time which has been Uh, as I said, Sarah senior starting Uh, as I said, Sarah senior starting Uh, as I said, Sarah senior starting school. This is the first time we've had school. This is the first time we've had school. This is the first time we've had to actually do like raise money in a to actually do like raise money in a to actually do like raise money in a really focused, intentional way because really focused, intentional way because really focused, intentional way because we want to send all eight to college. we want to send all eight to college. we want to send all eight to college. And so last summer, um, knowing this was And so last summer, um, knowing this was And so last summer, um, knowing this was coming and it was going to take some coming and it was going to take some coming and it was going to take some time like Sarah's starting, but it's time like Sarah's starting, but it's time like Sarah's starting, but it's going to take some time for the rest of going to take some time for the rest of going to take some time for the rest of the seven to get into it and different the seven to get into it and different the seven to get into it and different things. We're like, we need to raise things. We're like, we need to raise things. We're like, we need to raise $150,000. $150,000. $150,000. And there was some we our budget's And there was some we our budget's And there was some we our budget's like 30,000 a year, 40,000 a year, just like 30,000 a year, 40,000 a year, just like 30,000 a year, 40,000 a year, just shoestring. Like we've not it's not a shoestring. Like we've not it's not a shoestring. Like we've not it's not a full operation, you know, like Ellie and full operation, you know, like Ellie and full operation, you know, like Ellie and I just volunteer. Like this is not an I just volunteer. Like this is not an I just volunteer. Like this is not an like a legit nonprofit, but we've only like a legit nonprofit, but we've only like a legit nonprofit, but we've only raised So that's what I'm saying. We've raised So that's what I'm saying. We've raised So that's what I'm saying. We've only raised like 30,000 at a time a only raised like 30,000 at a time a only raised like 30,000 at a time a year. And this is not us ask. This is year. And this is not us ask. This is year. And this is not us ask. This is the letter. That letter is worth 30,000 the letter. That letter is worth 30,000 the letter. That letter is worth 30,000 a year. You know, like people a year. You know, like people a year. You know, like people keep giving. But keep giving. But keep giving. But » this is a time where we're like we need » this is a time where we're like we need » this is a time where we're like we need people to invest. And so Ellie and I people to invest. And so Ellie and I people to invest. And so Ellie and I have really tried to lean into like it have really tried to lean into like it have really tried to lean into like it is a joy to ask people for money. It's a is a joy to ask people for money. It's a is a joy to ask people for money. It's a joy to invite people into this. We have joy to invite people into this. We have joy to invite people into this. We have a chance that same story I just a chance that same story I just a chance that same story I just described of them coming from the bottom described of them coming from the bottom described of them coming from the bottom of their economy to becoming college of their economy to becoming college of their economy to becoming college educated women in one generation. We educated women in one generation. We educated women in one generation. We have the chance to make that possible. have the chance to make that possible. have the chance to make that possible. You're invited to be a part of that with You're invited to be a part of that with You're invited to be a part of that with us. We need $150,000. And asking like us. We need $150,000. And asking like us. We need $150,000. And asking like with authority and confidence and with authority and confidence and with authority and confidence and conviction of like it would be a conviction of like it would be a conviction of like it would be a privilege. It's a privilege for me to be privilege. It's a privilege for me to be privilege. It's a privilege for me to be a part of it and you guys would be a part of it and you guys would be a part of it and you guys would be privileged to be a part of the story privileged to be a part of the story privileged to be a part of the story because who knows what's going to happen because who knows what's going to happen because who knows what's going to happen and the ramifications of this. It's just and the ramifications of this. It's just and the ramifications of this. It's just going to be such a good story and I had going to be such a good story and I had going to be such a good story and I had none of that ability for the last like none of that ability for the last like none of that ability for the last like 10 years to just go and ask for money 10 years to just go and ask for money 10 years to just go and ask for money and now I feel like I've warmed up to and now I feel like I've warmed up to and now I feel like I've warmed up to that. So that feels really that. So that feels really that. So that feels really encouraging. encouraging. encouraging. » That was good. Yeah, there we go. » That was good. Yeah, there we go. » That was good. Yeah, there we go. » That was great. » That was great. » That was great. » There's a lot of authority. » There's a lot of authority. » There's a lot of authority. » Love it. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. » Love it. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. » Love it. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. » I think we should go from that straight » I think we should go from that straight » I think we should go from that straight to Honey Stack. to Honey Stack. to Honey Stack. » Okay. And then I'm gonna but I'm going » Okay. And then I'm gonna but I'm going » Okay. And then I'm gonna but I'm going to fill in the gap. to fill in the gap. to fill in the gap. » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » Is that fair? » Is that fair? » Is that fair? » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » Depending on how you feel if you get » Depending on how you feel if you get » Depending on how you feel if you get mad. mad. mad. » If I don't like it, I'll fix it. » If I don't like it, I'll fix it. » If I don't like it, I'll fix it. » You don't like it. Um, » You don't like it. Um, » You don't like it. Um, » you had different jobs. You got into a » you had different jobs. You got into a » you had different jobs. You got into a economic development group. economic development group. economic development group. » You started getting into data analytics. » You started getting into data analytics. » You started getting into data analytics. That evolved into you starting Lion That evolved into you starting Lion That evolved into you starting Lion Graph. So you went freelance. You were Graph. So you went freelance. You were Graph. So you went freelance. You were doing it for Network Kansas, correct? doing it for Network Kansas, correct? doing it for Network Kansas, correct? Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. » So, Network Kansas, you were employed » So, Network Kansas, you were employed » So, Network Kansas, you were employed there, which is a amazing program. By there, which is a amazing program. By there, which is a amazing program. By the way, we've benefited in Eldredo with the way, we've benefited in Eldredo with the way, we've benefited in Eldredo with the uh loan program. the uh loan program. the uh loan program. » Yeah, the local loan program. » Yeah, the local loan program. » Yeah, the local loan program. » Yeah. Yeah. Our chambers loaned out a » Yeah. Yeah. Our chambers loaned out a » Yeah. Yeah. Our chambers loaned out a crazy amount of money for uh local crazy amount of money for uh local crazy amount of money for uh local businesses and expansion. It's been businesses and expansion. It's been businesses and expansion. It's been awesome. awesome. awesome. » Um you got really obsessed with data. » Um you got really obsessed with data. » Um you got really obsessed with data. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And processing data, making data tell » And processing data, making data tell » And processing data, making data tell stories. You've always been a great stories. You've always been a great stories. You've always been a great storyteller. Then you attach data to it. storyteller. Then you attach data to it. storyteller. Then you attach data to it. » Uh doing that internally for them. And » Uh doing that internally for them. And » Uh doing that internally for them. And then you were like this was kind of your then you were like this was kind of your then you were like this was kind of your essentially your first move your essentially your first move your essentially your first move after eight oaks in my opinion kind of the eight oaks in my opinion kind of the eight oaks in my opinion kind of the first big move that set a different first big move that set a different first big move that set a different trajectory for you. You wanted to go out trajectory for you. You wanted to go out trajectory for you. You wanted to go out on your own doing data analytics for on your own doing data analytics for on your own doing data analytics for other people and making data beautiful. other people and making data beautiful. other people and making data beautiful. Got really good at uh uh what was it? Got really good at uh uh what was it? Got really good at uh uh what was it? Knack or Knack or Knack or » knack was building no code apps for yeah » knack was building no code apps for yeah » knack was building no code apps for yeah you built one you built a point of sale you built one you built a point of sale you built one you built a point of sale for our appliance store. It was wild. for our appliance store. It was wild. for our appliance store. It was wild. you got real good at knack you got real good at knack you got real good at knack » and this was like before AI no code like » and this was like before AI no code like » and this was like before AI no code like I was doing no code tools like I was doing no code tools like I was doing no code tools like » and then you named it Lion Graph which » and then you named it Lion Graph which » and then you named it Lion Graph which was a great name I still don't remember was a great name I still don't remember was a great name I still don't remember your 1 million cups presentation your 1 million cups presentation your 1 million cups presentation » and did that for a while had some staff » and did that for a while had some staff » and did that for a while had some staff go to uh do a merger with Moonbase Labs go to uh do a merger with Moonbase Labs go to uh do a merger with Moonbase Labs a software development company so you a software development company so you a software development company so you brought in the data analytics side brought in the data analytics side brought in the data analytics side customer experience side processing customer experience side processing customer experience side processing information for them into a software information for them into a software information for them into a software development group And I'm going to let development group And I'm going to let development group And I'm going to let you take it from there. So now you're a you take it from there. So now you're a you take it from there. So now you're a partner at Moonbase and Or I can keep partner at Moonbase and Or I can keep partner at Moonbase and Or I can keep going and I can get us all the way to going and I can get us all the way to going and I can get us all the way to You're not there. You're not there. You're not there. » Yeah. No, I'll I'll take it. I'll uh » Yeah. No, I'll I'll take it. I'll uh » Yeah. No, I'll I'll take it. I'll uh Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. » Uh I I'd like to talk now. » Uh I I'd like to talk now. » Uh I I'd like to talk now. » No. Uh so I did Lion Graph. I love that » No. Uh so I did Lion Graph. I love that » No. Uh so I did Lion Graph. I love that company name and company name and company name and » it was a great so cool. I loved it. But » it was a great so cool. I loved it. But » it was a great so cool. I loved it. But um merged with Moonbase. I really the um merged with Moonbase. I really the um merged with Moonbase. I really the thing I was feeling with the data thing I was feeling with the data thing I was feeling with the data analytics is that I needed to go analytics is that I needed to go analytics is that I needed to go upstream. They'd want me to analyze data upstream. They'd want me to analyze data upstream. They'd want me to analyze data and it was garbage and it was because and it was garbage and it was because and it was garbage and it was because their systems and processes and software their systems and processes and software their systems and processes and software tools upstream and I couldn't use APIs tools upstream and I couldn't use APIs tools upstream and I couldn't use APIs cuz I wasn't a developer then and so I cuz I wasn't a developer then and so I cuz I wasn't a developer then and so I couldn't do something. So I was really couldn't do something. So I was really couldn't do something. So I was really stoked to merge with Moonbase because it stoked to merge with Moonbase because it stoked to merge with Moonbase because it just unlocked so many doors just unlocked so many doors just unlocked so many doors technologically. Um we did that together technologically. Um we did that together technologically. Um we did that together for like three and a half or four years for like three and a half or four years for like three and a half or four years and most of my role was like product and most of my role was like product and most of my role was like product owner or business development and in owner or business development and in owner or business development and in that journey that journey that journey the people that kept coming to me were the people that kept coming to me were the people that kept coming to me were nonprofit people nonprofit people nonprofit people » not only nonprofit people we had lots of » not only nonprofit people we had lots of » not only nonprofit people we had lots of for-profit companies we built a lot of for-profit companies we built a lot of for-profit companies we built a lot of cool software. cool software. cool software. » Do you think that's because of eight » Do you think that's because of eight » Do you think that's because of eight oaks and networking? oaks and networking? oaks and networking? » I I don't think so because I barely talk » I I don't think so because I barely talk » I I don't think so because I barely talk about [ __ ] about [ __ ] about [ __ ] » Yeah, that's true. I almost didn't talk » Yeah, that's true. I almost didn't talk » Yeah, that's true. I almost didn't talk about it for 10 years because I was about it for 10 years because I was about it for 10 years because I was afraid that I was supposed to ask for afraid that I was supposed to ask for afraid that I was supposed to ask for money and I didn't want to. money and I didn't want to. money and I didn't want to. » Uh, » Uh, » Uh, » oh, was this that moment? I can tell » oh, was this that moment? I can tell » oh, was this that moment? I can tell they're really interested in this. they're really interested in this. they're really interested in this. » And I or and I was also afraid that » And I or and I was also afraid that » And I or and I was also afraid that people thought I was going to ask them people thought I was going to ask them people thought I was going to ask them for money. So, I tried to I went out of for money. So, I tried to I went out of for money. So, I tried to I went out of my way to make it clear like I'm not my way to make it clear like I'm not my way to make it clear like I'm not going to ask you for money. We only send going to ask you for money. We only send going to ask you for money. We only send one letter a year and I'm not even one letter a year and I'm not even one letter a year and I'm not even sending it to you, you know? Like I I sending it to you, you know? Like I I sending it to you, you know? Like I I was just like and I I I really thought I was just like and I I I really thought I was just like and I I I really thought I I had none of this sort of authority to I had none of this sort of authority to I had none of this sort of authority to be like no no, you're giving people an be like no no, you're giving people an be like no no, you're giving people an invitation. That's all new. like I invitation. That's all new. like I invitation. That's all new. like I didn't have that for most of this. Um didn't have that for most of this. Um didn't have that for most of this. Um maybe I teach that person, that young maybe I teach that person, that young maybe I teach that person, that young kid trying to start it to be like learn kid trying to start it to be like learn kid trying to start it to be like learn how to raise money. how to raise money. how to raise money. » There you go. » There you go. » There you go. » I could maybe tell them to do that » I could maybe tell them to do that » I could maybe tell them to do that because that's really important. because that's really important. because that's really important. » Um » Um » Um » Moonbase was great. I think the thing » Moonbase was great. I think the thing » Moonbase was great. I think the thing that I found was nonprofits kept coming that I found was nonprofits kept coming that I found was nonprofits kept coming to me and I think maybe not quite half to me and I think maybe not quite half to me and I think maybe not quite half of our business, probably half of our of our business, probably half of our of our business, probably half of our customers. We had larger businesses customers. We had larger businesses customers. We had larger businesses working with us that were for-profits, working with us that were for-profits, working with us that were for-profits, but maybe half of our customers by count but maybe half of our customers by count but maybe half of our customers by count were nonprofits and I don't think it's were nonprofits and I don't think it's were nonprofits and I don't think it's because of eight oaks. And so I had to because of eight oaks. And so I had to because of eight oaks. And so I had to really do some reflection of like why really do some reflection of like why really do some reflection of like why are these people coming to me? And some are these people coming to me? And some are these people coming to me? And some of it never Kansas was a nonprofit. So of it never Kansas was a nonprofit. So of it never Kansas was a nonprofit. So it could have been maybe from that. Um, it could have been maybe from that. Um, it could have been maybe from that. Um, a friend of mine, Edom Ali said, a friend of mine, Edom Ali said, a friend of mine, Edom Ali said, like I asked him about that like why is like I asked him about that like why is like I asked him about that like why is this nonprofit and he said you are I this nonprofit and he said you are I this nonprofit and he said you are I think he described as like you are just think he described as like you are just think he described as like you are just a a a » dogoodter. » dogoodter. » dogoodter. » He said you just need to own it. » He said you just need to own it. » He said you just need to own it. » He said people can smell it on you. » He said people can smell it on you. » He said people can smell it on you. Maybe he didn't say that. I don't know. Maybe he didn't say that. I don't know. Maybe he didn't say that. I don't know. I don't want to put words in his mouth. I don't want to put words in his mouth. I don't want to put words in his mouth. He said you just need to own it and lean He said you just need to own it and lean He said you just need to own it and lean into it and admit it to yourself that into it and admit it to yourself that into it and admit it to yourself that you care about the world and you want to you care about the world and you want to you care about the world and you want to make it better. And that was after make it better. And that was after make it better. And that was after leaving Moonbase. Um, leaving Moonbase. Um, leaving Moonbase. Um, I think I had to kind of figure out what I think I had to kind of figure out what I think I had to kind of figure out what do I want to do? And that what do I want to do? And that what do I want to do? And that conversation with Ed was really profound conversation with Ed was really profound conversation with Ed was really profound for me of him saying like whatever you for me of him saying like whatever you for me of him saying like whatever you do, do, do, » do you. Like that was kind of what he » do you. Like that was kind of what he » do you. Like that was kind of what he say. He's like, be true to like whatever say. He's like, be true to like whatever say. He's like, be true to like whatever is going on inside of you. And he's is going on inside of you. And he's is going on inside of you. And he's like, there's a reason these nonprofits like, there's a reason these nonprofits like, there's a reason these nonprofits keep coming to you. It's because you're keep coming to you. It's because you're keep coming to you. It's because you're one of them. And I was like, I think I one of them. And I was like, I think I one of them. And I was like, I think I am one of them. And in fact, I think am one of them. And in fact, I think am one of them. And in fact, I think this whole last 10 years of being in this whole last 10 years of being in this whole last 10 years of being in technology um is is not it's definitely not a um is is not it's definitely not a um is is not it's definitely not a detour by any means, but it's also uh it detour by any means, but it's also uh it detour by any means, but it's also uh it was the laying the foundation for I was the laying the foundation for I was the laying the foundation for I think something to be more accurate think something to be more accurate think something to be more accurate about me. Technology is not the most about me. Technology is not the most about me. Technology is not the most true thing about me. And I think when I true thing about me. And I think when I true thing about me. And I think when I tell stories about dashboards and I tell stories about dashboards and I tell stories about dashboards and I tell stories about me, meeting Macy and stories about me, meeting Macy and stories about me, meeting Macy and Silus's mom in Ethiopia, I think it's Silus's mom in Ethiopia, I think it's Silus's mom in Ethiopia, I think it's pretty clear who I am. Like I don't pretty clear who I am. Like I don't pretty clear who I am. Like I don't think technology is the truest thing think technology is the truest thing think technology is the truest thing about me. It just happens to be about me. It just happens to be about me. It just happens to be something I'm very skilled at and enjoy something I'm very skilled at and enjoy something I'm very skilled at and enjoy learning and using. But what I really learning and using. But what I really learning and using. But what I really care about is care about is care about is taking this tremendous responsibility taking this tremendous responsibility taking this tremendous responsibility that we've been given. And I'm not the that we've been given. And I'm not the that we've been given. And I'm not the only one. All of us have been given only one. All of us have been given only one. All of us have been given these responsibilities. How do we make these responsibilities. How do we make these responsibilities. How do we make the most of it with this brief time here the most of it with this brief time here the most of it with this brief time here on Earth? I'd so much rather do profound on Earth? I'd so much rather do profound on Earth? I'd so much rather do profound work that moves the needle than acrue a work that moves the needle than acrue a work that moves the needle than acrue a lot of wealth and hopefully lot of wealth and hopefully lot of wealth and hopefully get to the point where I have hopefully get to the point where I have hopefully get to the point where I have enough that I can start to give. I I enough that I can start to give. I I enough that I can start to give. I I just » I and I don't I know for certain most » I and I don't I know for certain most » I and I don't I know for certain most people are oriented this way. I think we people are oriented this way. I think we people are oriented this way. I think we get distracted and I don't think the get distracted and I don't think the get distracted and I don't think the world moves us this way very naturally. world moves us this way very naturally. world moves us this way very naturally. I think it is counterultural. But I I think it is counterultural. But I I think it is counterultural. But I think all of us I have so many friends think all of us I have so many friends think all of us I have so many friends working at big companies like Coke that working at big companies like Coke that working at big companies like Coke that are saying like I wish I could do what are saying like I wish I could do what are saying like I wish I could do what you're doing and I wish my work had more you're doing and I wish my work had more you're doing and I wish my work had more purpose and more meaning and I am just purpose and more meaning and I am just purpose and more meaning and I am just like grinding it out day after day and I like grinding it out day after day and I like grinding it out day after day and I sympathize. sympathize. sympathize. » I don't know if I can empathize though » I don't know if I can empathize though » I don't know if I can empathize though because I can't imagine that of like I because I can't imagine that of like I because I can't imagine that of like I don't know how to grind it out. I don't know how to grind it out. I don't know how to grind it out. I rejected that like almost immediately. rejected that like almost immediately. rejected that like almost immediately. I'm the same way as my dad of like no no I'm the same way as my dad of like no no I'm the same way as my dad of like no no that's not for me like I'm going I have that's not for me like I'm going I have that's not for me like I'm going I have to do it this specific way and it's not to do it this specific way and it's not to do it this specific way and it's not because it's better. It's not I don't because it's better. It's not I don't because it's better. It's not I don't think it's like morally superior. It's think it's like morally superior. It's think it's like morally superior. It's the same thing as like a behind the b the same thing as like a behind the b the same thing as like a behind the b behind the back pass in basketball is a behind the back pass in basketball is a behind the back pass in basketball is a pass. pass. pass. » Does it get to the person or not? » Does it get to the person or not? » Does it get to the person or not? » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » But when someone does it in a specific » But when someone does it in a specific » But when someone does it in a specific way, it's a pass that's true to them. way, it's a pass that's true to them. way, it's a pass that's true to them. And the way my dad would do those double And the way my dad would do those double And the way my dad would do those double reverse plays, those aren't necessarily reverse plays, those aren't necessarily reverse plays, those aren't necessarily good plays. If you ask me if I'm a good plays. If you ask me if I'm a good plays. If you ask me if I'm a good entrepreneur, I would say absolutely entrepreneur, I would say absolutely entrepreneur, I would say absolutely not. I am not a good entrepreneur, but I not. I am not a good entrepreneur, but I not. I am not a good entrepreneur, but I am one of them and I am I'm the version am one of them and I am I'm the version am one of them and I am I'm the version of an entrepreneur that I can be and of an entrepreneur that I can be and of an entrepreneur that I can be and not. not. not. » So what I find is that if I lean into it » So what I find is that if I lean into it » So what I find is that if I lean into it and just admit I care about the world, I and just admit I care about the world, I and just admit I care about the world, I want to make it better. I now have just want to make it better. I now have just want to make it better. I now have just developed 10 years of all of these developed 10 years of all of these developed 10 years of all of these really valuable skills. how can I use really valuable skills. how can I use really valuable skills. how can I use them? Um, it starts to narrow them? Um, it starts to narrow them? Um, it starts to narrow the aperture of what I should be doing. Like aperture of what I should be doing. Like aperture of what I should be doing. Like it becomes honest, it becomes quite it becomes honest, it becomes quite it becomes honest, it becomes quite clear, clear, clear, » right? » right? » right? » Here's exactly what you should do, » Here's exactly what you should do, » Here's exactly what you should do, » but it didn't it wasn't clear. Like I » but it didn't it wasn't clear. Like I » but it didn't it wasn't clear. Like I backed into it. backed into it. backed into it. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Still had to be defined. » Still had to be defined. » Still had to be defined. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And that's kind of what we're getting to » And that's kind of what we're getting to » And that's kind of what we're getting to on the Honey Stack conversation. Um, on the Honey Stack conversation. Um, on the Honey Stack conversation. Um, so take me from so take me from so take me from after Moonbase, uh, you exit Moonbase. after Moonbase, uh, you exit Moonbase. after Moonbase, uh, you exit Moonbase. » Yep. » Yep. » Yep. » Sell out. Um, » Sell out. Um, » Sell out. Um, » I don't like to describe it as selling » I don't like to describe it as selling » I don't like to describe it as selling out. out. out. » Selling out. You sold your stock. » Selling out. You sold your stock. » Selling out. You sold your stock. » I did. I'm a sellout. » Uh, yeah. Went a different direction. » Uh, yeah. Went a different direction. Uh, and yeah, here's here's the other Uh, and yeah, here's here's the other Uh, and yeah, here's here's the other part which I'm I'm hoping you're going part which I'm I'm hoping you're going part which I'm I'm hoping you're going to do some hard ass once we get into to do some hard ass once we get into to do some hard ass once we get into this section of it. But break down to me this section of it. But break down to me this section of it. But break down to me that exploration of okay that exploration of okay that exploration of okay done a moonbase now I'm exploring done a moonbase now I'm exploring done a moonbase now I'm exploring nonprofits because you have multiple nonprofits because you have multiple nonprofits because you have multiple iterations of it iterations of it iterations of it » at the beginning just from the outside » at the beginning just from the outside » at the beginning just from the outside in of you in of you in of you » consulting and doing seminars and yeah » consulting and doing seminars and yeah » consulting and doing seminars and yeah » uh a great newsletter that you send out » uh a great newsletter that you send out » uh a great newsletter that you send out uh that seems like it's got some great uh that seems like it's got some great uh that seems like it's got some great traction that I even enjoy and I don't traction that I even enjoy and I don't traction that I even enjoy and I don't have a nonprofit. have a nonprofit. have a nonprofit. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um » Um » Um » that's generous. » that's generous. » that's generous. » Yeah. You're generous. » Yeah. You're generous. » Yeah. You're generous. » Yeah. Not every one of them. So like, » Yeah. Not every one of them. So like, » Yeah. Not every one of them. So like, you know, but I mean like any newsletter you know, but I mean like any newsletter you know, but I mean like any newsletter if if it hits every other time. if if it hits every other time. if if it hits every other time. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Uh so yeah, give us all the iterations » Uh so yeah, give us all the iterations » Uh so yeah, give us all the iterations of now Teddy's on his own. Teddy.com of now Teddy's on his own. Teddy.com of now Teddy's on his own. Teddy.com stack. stack. stack. » I think when I left Moonbase, one » I think when I left Moonbase, one » I think when I left Moonbase, one thing that I felt was a sense of freedom thing that I felt was a sense of freedom thing that I felt was a sense of freedom to really just create and explore and to really just create and explore and to really just create and explore and consider who am I and what consider who am I and what consider who am I and what can I do? And I I had and I had what can I do? And I I had and I had what can I do? And I I had and I had time to think because they were buying time to think because they were buying time to think because they were buying me out. I had a little bit of time to be me out. I had a little bit of time to be me out. I had a little bit of time to be like, "All right, what do I like, "All right, what do I like, "All right, what do I » Right. » Right. » Right. » What do I That that runway to think is » What do I That that runway to think is » What do I That that runway to think is so precious." so precious." so precious." » Um, and I didn't like rest » Um, and I didn't like rest » Um, and I didn't like rest » and you'll never get it back. » and you'll never get it back. » and you'll never get it back. » I know. It's like » I know. It's like » I know. It's like » it did feel a special time. » it did feel a special time. » it did feel a special time. » It did feel like such a moment of like » It did feel like such a moment of like » It did feel like such a moment of like I've got to make the most of it. So, the I've got to make the most of it. So, the I've got to make the most of it. So, the irony, it's not like I did a vacation or irony, it's not like I did a vacation or irony, it's not like I did a vacation or like went on vacation, anything. I like went on vacation, anything. I like went on vacation, anything. I worked really I worked harder, worked really I worked harder, worked really I worked harder, » right? » right? » right? » E-M Yeah, I worked really hard. I worked » E-M Yeah, I worked really hard. I worked » E-M Yeah, I worked really hard. I worked really hard. Um, really hard. Um, really hard. Um, I might have needed to rest more in I might have needed to rest more in I might have needed to rest more in hindsight. hindsight. hindsight. What I felt was this sense of I have What I felt was this sense of I have What I felt was this sense of I have something to say and I want to try and something to say and I want to try and something to say and I want to try and work on saying it and starting to work on saying it and starting to work on saying it and starting to articulate it. So, I just started articulate it. So, I just started articulate it. So, I just started writing pages and pages and pages. Um, I writing pages and pages and pages. Um, I writing pages and pages and pages. Um, I created a seminar where I was like, let created a seminar where I was like, let created a seminar where I was like, let me go try and see if this is hitting a me go try and see if this is hitting a me go try and see if this is hitting a nerve and you were generous enough to nerve and you were generous enough to nerve and you were generous enough to come to that. And I get just like a 20 come to that. And I get just like a 20 come to that. And I get just like a 20 minute talk on like what I wish minute talk on like what I wish minute talk on like what I wish nonprofits knew about software. I've nonprofits knew about software. I've nonprofits knew about software. I've seen so many I've seen the inner seen so many I've seen the inner seen so many I've seen the inner workings of so many nonprofits and they workings of so many nonprofits and they workings of so many nonprofits and they keep making these same mistakes over and keep making these same mistakes over and keep making these same mistakes over and over and over again and I wish they knew over and over again and I wish they knew over and over again and I wish they knew this coming from a person who's just this coming from a person who's just this coming from a person who's just been so seeped in software for the last been so seeped in software for the last been so seeped in software for the last decade and have tried every project decade and have tried every project decade and have tried every project management tool and every like every management tool and every like every management tool and every like every communication tool under the sun, every communication tool under the sun, every communication tool under the sun, every documentation tool. I've tried them all. documentation tool. I've tried them all. documentation tool. I've tried them all. I've used them all. I've switched from I've used them all. I've switched from I've used them all. I've switched from one to the other. one to the other. one to the other. zooming out from that, here's what I zooming out from that, here's what I zooming out from that, here's what I wish nonprofits knew. Here's what the wish nonprofits knew. Here's what the wish nonprofits knew. Here's what the mistakes I wish they would avoid. And I mistakes I wish they would avoid. And I mistakes I wish they would avoid. And I got I it resonated with people and I was got I it resonated with people and I was got I it resonated with people and I was like, okay, that's a good sign. So from like, okay, that's a good sign. So from like, okay, that's a good sign. So from that, I was like, I've got pages. I that, I was like, I've got pages. I that, I was like, I've got pages. I think I could write weekly. And so I think I could write weekly. And so I think I could write weekly. And so I tried to build a practice of discipline tried to build a practice of discipline tried to build a practice of discipline of writing every single week. And I did of writing every single week. And I did of writing every single week. And I did most weeks. And I built this audience of most weeks. And I built this audience of most weeks. And I built this audience of nonprofit leaders and just saying, I nonprofit leaders and just saying, I nonprofit leaders and just saying, I know that you need nonprof you need know that you need nonprof you need know that you need nonprof you need software to do your work. You need it. software to do your work. You need it. software to do your work. You need it. You there's no choice about it. So you You there's no choice about it. So you You there's no choice about it. So you have to figure this out. And I was just have to figure this out. And I was just have to figure this out. And I was just trying to be trying to be trying to be » And you know, it's a huge pain point. » And you know, it's a huge pain point. » And you know, it's a huge pain point. » It's a huge pain point » It's a huge pain point » It's a huge pain point » in every nonprofit. » in every nonprofit. » in every nonprofit. » In every nonprofit. Yeah. I they » In every nonprofit. Yeah. I they » In every nonprofit. Yeah. I they feel like it's too expensive. It's feel like it's too expensive. It's feel like it's too expensive. It's difficult. It's not intuitive. It difficult. It's not intuitive. It difficult. It's not intuitive. It doesn't quite fit the way they want. Um doesn't quite fit the way they want. Um doesn't quite fit the way they want. Um there's just so much of it. Just there's just so much of it. Just there's just so much of it. Just the noise. There's so much of it and they're noise. There's so much of it and they're noise. There's so much of it and they're releasing new features all the time. releasing new features all the time. releasing new features all the time. There's a sense of like software is There's a sense of like software is There's a sense of like software is happening to us and we're not in charge happening to us and we're not in charge happening to us and we're not in charge of it or in control of it. And I wanted of it or in control of it. And I wanted of it or in control of it. And I wanted to really give this sense of autonomy of to really give this sense of autonomy of to really give this sense of autonomy of like you can own your tech stack and you like you can own your tech stack and you like you can own your tech stack and you can release features on your terms and can release features on your terms and can release features on your terms and say we're only going to use it in this say we're only going to use it in this say we're only going to use it in this way and that way. But you have to you way and that way. But you have to you way and that way. But you have to you have to have some confidence and have to have some confidence and have to have some confidence and authority. And I was trying to lend my authority. And I was trying to lend my authority. And I was trying to lend my confidence to them. And I started confidence to them. And I started confidence to them. And I started teaching in the newsletter and then I teaching in the newsletter and then I teaching in the newsletter and then I did a couple of cohorts where I brought did a couple of cohorts where I brought did a couple of cohorts where I brought nonprofits together and we worked nonprofits together and we worked nonprofits together and we worked together through some of their problems together through some of their problems together through some of their problems of just like how to define their process of just like how to define their process of just like how to define their process and diagram it and get really clear and diagram it and get really clear and diagram it and get really clear about how data moves through their about how data moves through their about how data moves through their systems and what a dashboard looks like systems and what a dashboard looks like systems and what a dashboard looks like and how to mock one up and some tools and how to mock one up and some tools and how to mock one up and some tools they might be able to use and how to they might be able to use and how to they might be able to use and how to even buy software. Like if the software even buy software. Like if the software even buy software. Like if the software says call for pricing, says call for pricing, says call for pricing, » never call. » never call. » never call. Never. Never. Never. » Software is a commodity. » Software is a commodity. » Software is a commodity. » Hold on. And I'm looking at honeystack. » Hold on. And I'm looking at honeystack. » Hold on. And I'm looking at honeystack. Agency. It says call for price. You know, actually though, we debated on You know, actually though, we debated on that. that. that. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » We actually post our pricing. » We actually post our pricing. » We actually post our pricing. We we posted it and it was for that very We we posted it and it was for that very We we posted it and it was for that very reason is because nonprofits reason is because nonprofits reason is because nonprofits » I wanted to be transparent because it » I wanted to be transparent because it » I wanted to be transparent because it makes me so mad when these companies makes me so mad when these companies makes me so mad when these companies have call for pricing as if like have call for pricing as if like have call for pricing as if like software is like fine wine from the software is like fine wine from the software is like fine wine from the foothills of Italy that they have to get foothills of Italy that they have to get foothills of Italy that they have to get out of the back of like no it's $25 per out of the back of like no it's $25 per out of the back of like no it's $25 per user per month at most like and there's user per month at most like and there's user per month at most like and there's a hundred alternatives there's no way a hundred alternatives there's no way a hundred alternatives there's no way that you can demand that type of that you can demand that type of that you can demand that type of credibility. Yeah, it's just at the end credibility. Yeah, it's just at the end credibility. Yeah, it's just at the end of the day, it's a sales tactic, right? of the day, it's a sales tactic, right? of the day, it's a sales tactic, right? So, it's you do the math on both sides So, it's you do the math on both sides So, it's you do the math on both sides and if they what's the closing rate on and if they what's the closing rate on and if they what's the closing rate on the marketing dollars? I think that's the marketing dollars? I think that's the marketing dollars? I think that's the only reason it still exists. I think the only reason it still exists. I think the only reason it still exists. I think it's a certain amount of money to get it's a certain amount of money to get it's a certain amount of money to get them to the website and if they can't them to the website and if they can't them to the website and if they can't close at a high enough rate without a close at a high enough rate without a close at a high enough rate without a hard like a good salesperson getting the hard like a good salesperson getting the hard like a good salesperson getting the clothes done, they just don't put it clothes done, they just don't put it clothes done, they just don't put it there. I think that's the only logic there. I think that's the only logic there. I think that's the only logic behind it still. behind it still. behind it still. » I'm I'm sure it is. And those are the » I'm I'm sure it is. And those are the » I'm I'm sure it is. And those are the also the same companies though that make also the same companies though that make also the same companies though that make you pay extra for API access or don't you pay extra for API access or don't you pay extra for API access or don't have an API at all. So you have an API at all. So you have an API at all. So you » because they can they got you on the » because they can they got you on the » because they can they got you on the phone once they get the face to face and phone once they get the face to face and phone once they get the face to face and » and then they have you sign a three-year » and then they have you sign a three-year » and then they have you sign a three-year contract and they actually sue you if contract and they actually sue you if contract and they actually sue you if you want you want you want » and they convince you have like by » and they convince you have like by » and they convince you have like by the time you're done with that first the time you're done with that first the time you're done with that first call with any software company that does call with any software company that does call with any software company that does call for pricing. I think they have call for pricing. I think they have call for pricing. I think they have you convinced there's nothing else out you convinced there's nothing else out you convinced there's nothing else out there and they want some answer on that there and they want some answer on that there and they want some answer on that first call which stresses me the hell first call which stresses me the hell first call which stresses me the hell out. I hate that with anybody. Yeah. out. I hate that with anybody. Yeah. out. I hate that with anybody. Yeah. » Getting an answer on the first call. Why » Getting an answer on the first call. Why » Getting an answer on the first call. Why would you wait on this? would you wait on this? would you wait on this? » I just don't think that's how sales work » I just don't think that's how sales work » I just don't think that's how sales work anymore, like to build a long-term anymore, like to build a long-term anymore, like to build a long-term relationship with someone, right? And relationship with someone, right? And relationship with someone, right? And that's that's how any software should that's that's how any software should that's that's how any software should work. It's it's relational. work. It's it's relational. work. It's it's relational. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Even if they don't talk to someone to » Even if they don't talk to someone to » Even if they don't talk to someone to sign up. Um I I think Yeah. I think sign up. Um I I think Yeah. I think sign up. Um I I think Yeah. I think software companies that give the user software companies that give the user software companies that give the user the benefit of the doubt and says, the benefit of the doubt and says, the benefit of the doubt and says, "These are smart people. They can go "These are smart people. They can go "These are smart people. They can go figure it out. They'll go read the docs. figure it out. They'll go read the docs. figure it out. They'll go read the docs. They'll go look at YouTube. they'll They'll go look at YouTube. they'll They'll go look at YouTube. they'll figure this out. Um, we'll give them the figure this out. Um, we'll give them the figure this out. Um, we'll give them the price upfront so that they can make us price upfront so that they can make us price upfront so that they can make us an educated decision. For me, when I an educated decision. For me, when I an educated decision. For me, when I think of nonprofits who like are already think of nonprofits who like are already think of nonprofits who like are already strapped for cash, already feel like strapped for cash, already feel like strapped for cash, already feel like they're back against the wall all they're back against the wall all they're back against the wall all the time. And then you look at big tech, time. And then you look at big tech, time. And then you look at big tech, seven out of the 10 top companies in the seven out of the 10 top companies in the seven out of the 10 top companies in the S&P 500, I think, are tech companies. S&P 500, I think, are tech companies. S&P 500, I think, are tech companies. They're they're they're so monopolistic. They're they're they're so monopolistic. They're they're they're so monopolistic. They have so much power. One of the only They have so much power. One of the only They have so much power. One of the only bargaining chips we have is transparent bargaining chips we have is transparent bargaining chips we have is transparent pricing. And when a tech company takes pricing. And when a tech company takes pricing. And when a tech company takes that away from people, I'm like, that's that away from people, I'm like, that's that away from people, I'm like, that's technology malpractice. It just it technology malpractice. It just it technology malpractice. It just it infuriates me. This is something I riff infuriates me. This is something I riff infuriates me. This is something I riff on with nonprofits because there's on with nonprofits because there's on with nonprofits because there's actually quite a few nonprofit software actually quite a few nonprofit software actually quite a few nonprofit software companies that I think are preying on companies that I think are preying on companies that I think are preying on naive nonprofit leaders who want to be naive nonprofit leaders who want to be naive nonprofit leaders who want to be taken care of and then they don't get taken care of and then they don't get taken care of and then they don't get the benefits that they deserve. Um, and the benefits that they deserve. Um, and the benefits that they deserve. Um, and one of the things I advocate for is one of the things I advocate for is one of the things I advocate for is holding software loosely. holding software loosely. holding software loosely. Software is patterns repeating over and Software is patterns repeating over and Software is patterns repeating over and over again. If you don't like your form over again. If you don't like your form over again. If you don't like your form builder, there's 100 alternatives. Just builder, there's 100 alternatives. Just builder, there's 100 alternatives. Just swap it out for another. Get to the swap it out for another. Get to the swap it out for another. Get to the point where you can we rent software. We point where you can we rent software. We point where you can we rent software. We don't buy it. We're monthtomonth with don't buy it. We're monthtomonth with don't buy it. We're monthtomonth with all of these people. There's no software all of these people. There's no software all of these people. There's no software company in the world that can guarantee company in the world that can guarantee company in the world that can guarantee there's still going to be the best there's still going to be the best there's still going to be the best solution in 3 years for you. No one can solution in 3 years for you. No one can solution in 3 years for you. No one can do that. So don't ever sign a three-year do that. So don't ever sign a three-year do that. So don't ever sign a three-year contract. Like treat everything, do contract. Like treat everything, do contract. Like treat everything, do trials, trial everything, do trials, trial everything, do trials, trial everything, do monthtomonth. And I think that when I monthtomonth. And I think that when I monthtomonth. And I think that when I talk about that though, I think people talk about that though, I think people talk about that though, I think people are hearing something they're unfamiliar are hearing something they're unfamiliar are hearing something they're unfamiliar with. they're feeling a lot of work and with. they're feeling a lot of work and with. they're feeling a lot of work and anxiety and ambiguity that they're like, anxiety and ambiguity that they're like, anxiety and ambiguity that they're like, I really don't want to wade through it. I really don't want to wade through it. I really don't want to wade through it. And one of the things I'm trying to do And one of the things I'm trying to do And one of the things I'm trying to do is help build their courage to say, "No, is help build their courage to say, "No, is help build their courage to say, "No, you can do this. Like, I promise you can you can do this. Like, I promise you can you can do this. Like, I promise you can do this. It will be good for you. You'll do this. It will be good for you. You'll do this. It will be good for you. You'll get better and sharper in the way you get better and sharper in the way you get better and sharper in the way you think and communicate. Um, and you can think and communicate. Um, and you can think and communicate. Um, and you can be the boss instead of let someone else be the boss instead of let someone else be the boss instead of let someone else do that." And so that's something I've do that." And so that's something I've do that." And so that's something I've been advocating for. That's just like an been advocating for. That's just like an been advocating for. That's just like an example, but I think uh you had talked example, but I think uh you had talked example, but I think uh you had talked about like what was that transition about like what was that transition about like what was that transition like? like? like? It took about six months, I think. But It took about six months, I think. But It took about six months, I think. But one of the cool things was I found my one of the cool things was I found my one of the cool things was I found my voice of like, okay, voice of like, okay, voice of like, okay, » yeah, » yeah, » yeah, » these are my people. I feel myself when » these are my people. I feel myself when » these are my people. I feel myself when I'm writing this. I think I in four I'm writing this. I think I in four I'm writing this. I think I in four years at Moonbase, I wrote four blog years at Moonbase, I wrote four blog years at Moonbase, I wrote four blog posts. posts. posts. » And in my first year of tedc.com, I » And in my first year of tedc.com, I » And in my first year of tedc.com, I think I wrote like 50. think I wrote like 50. think I wrote like 50. » Yeah, » Yeah, » Yeah, » it was like 40 or 50 something there. » it was like 40 or 50 something there. » it was like 40 or 50 something there. And then in my second year it was And then in my second year it was And then in my second year it was another 40 or 50 to where it was almost another 40 or 50 to where it was almost another 40 or 50 to where it was almost every week to where just that volume of every week to where just that volume of every week to where just that volume of content is and it was it was also like content is and it was it was also like content is and it was it was also like mostly pre-I. I guess AI was happening mostly pre-I. I guess AI was happening mostly pre-I. I guess AI was happening but like I was handwriting everything. I but like I was handwriting everything. I but like I was handwriting everything. I still handw write everything and that's still handw write everything and that's still handw write everything and that's to your point of excellence. I care to your point of excellence. I care to your point of excellence. I care about every single word. I write with a about every single word. I write with a about every single word. I write with a lot of intention. It's not always good lot of intention. It's not always good lot of intention. It's not always good but I tried really hard. Like that's but I tried really hard. Like that's but I tried really hard. Like that's » that's where I I just believe that » that's where I I just believe that » that's where I I just believe that's how people are going to connect. that's how people are going to connect. that's how people are going to connect. And when I people reply to my emails, And when I people reply to my emails, And when I people reply to my emails, they feel like they're talking to me they feel like they're talking to me they feel like they're talking to me because they are and I'm writing to them because they are and I'm writing to them because they are and I'm writing to them and I have their faces in my mind as I'm and I have their faces in my mind as I'm and I have their faces in my mind as I'm writing. And I think that comes through writing. And I think that comes through writing. And I think that comes through and that's why it's resonating with and that's why it's resonating with and that's why it's resonating with people. But I think people. But I think people. But I think the thing about Moonbase, I was there the thing about Moonbase, I was there the thing about Moonbase, I was there for 4 years. We did a lot of tremendous for 4 years. We did a lot of tremendous for 4 years. We did a lot of tremendous work together. It was a really talented work together. It was a really talented work together. It was a really talented team. And I think there's something team. And I think there's something team. And I think there's something about I think those NBA teams where about I think those NBA teams where about I think those NBA teams where everyone's really talented and it everyone's really talented and it everyone's really talented and it doesn't work. doesn't work. doesn't work. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And no one really understands why. I » And no one really understands why. I » And no one really understands why. I think that was sort of my experience at think that was sort of my experience at think that was sort of my experience at Moonbase of like how did that not work? Moonbase of like how did that not work? Moonbase of like how did that not work? We were all so talented, so gifted and We were all so talented, so gifted and We were all so talented, so gifted and like um but there was just something like um but there was just something like um but there was just something that didn't click. And as soon as I got that didn't click. And as soon as I got that didn't click. And as soon as I got into a different environment, I became a into a different environment, I became a into a different environment, I became a completely different human and completely different human and completely different human and basketball player in that analogy of basketball player in that analogy of basketball player in that analogy of like » goes from four blog posts to 50 in a » goes from four blog posts to 50 in a » goes from four blog posts to 50 in a year. It was just like, okay, year. It was just like, okay, year. It was just like, okay, » there was something wrong in my » there was something wrong in my » there was something wrong in my environment and this has been such a environment and this has been such a environment and this has been such a good transition. It's been hard and good transition. It's been hard and good transition. It's been hard and there's been difficulty, but now I feel there's been difficulty, but now I feel there's been difficulty, but now I feel like I found my lane. Once you found like I found my lane. Once you found like I found my lane. Once you found your thing, which I think most people your thing, which I think most people your thing, which I think most people spend their whole lives looking for and spend their whole lives looking for and spend their whole lives looking for and many don't find. I just feel once again, many don't find. I just feel once again, many don't find. I just feel once again, privilege among privileges. Like I can't privilege among privileges. Like I can't privilege among privileges. Like I can't believe that I had the time for this. I believe that I had the time for this. I believe that I had the time for this. I worked very hard. I don't want to make worked very hard. I don't want to make worked very hard. I don't want to make it sound like I just was gifted it sound like I just was gifted it sound like I just was gifted everything. I did work very hard and everything. I did work very hard and everything. I did work very hard and » I have had many gifts given to me. And » I have had many gifts given to me. And » I have had many gifts given to me. And so I the way I've used them is work so I the way I've used them is work so I the way I've used them is work harder. Uh the way Steph Curry works harder. Uh the way Steph Curry works harder. Uh the way Steph Curry works harder than anyone even though his dad harder than anyone even though his dad harder than anyone even though his dad was an NBA basketball player. Like he was an NBA basketball player. Like he was an NBA basketball player. Like he just stood on top of the gifts he was just stood on top of the gifts he was just stood on top of the gifts he was given and tried to do even more with it. given and tried to do even more with it. given and tried to do even more with it. And that's that's how I feel. I I feel And that's that's how I feel. I I feel And that's that's how I feel. I I feel very grateful and thankful for it. Once very grateful and thankful for it. Once very grateful and thankful for it. Once you find your thing, you find your thing, you find your thing, what you should do becomes really clear. what you should do becomes really clear. what you should do becomes really clear. » And I think that has been what I've been » And I think that has been what I've been » And I think that has been what I've been running into. And that's so I've been running into. And that's so I've been running into. And that's so I've been doing tedcrill.com for two years. But doing tedcrill.com for two years. But doing tedcrill.com for two years. But really in the background, it's been really in the background, it's been really in the background, it's been saying this needs to be a full-on saying this needs to be a full-on saying this needs to be a full-on company that supports nonprofits and company that supports nonprofits and company that supports nonprofits and helps them build a modern tech stack. helps them build a modern tech stack. helps them build a modern tech stack. Particularly as everything is being Particularly as everything is being Particularly as everything is being tossed by AI, they need someone they can tossed by AI, they need someone they can tossed by AI, they need someone they can trust. trust. trust. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Someone that knows them, someone that » Someone that knows them, someone that » Someone that knows them, someone that cares about the same things they cares about the same things they cares about the same things they care about, that cares about their mission about, that cares about their mission about, that cares about their mission and their cause, and their cause, and their cause, and is technically excellent, knows and is technically excellent, knows and is technically excellent, knows their stuff, knows what they're talking their stuff, knows what they're talking their stuff, knows what they're talking about, and has helped a lot of about, and has helped a lot of about, and has helped a lot of nonprofits. That's a really hard ven nonprofits. That's a really hard ven nonprofits. That's a really hard ven diagram to find. And so if you commit to diagram to find. And so if you commit to diagram to find. And so if you commit to that and you willing to work with anyone that and you willing to work with anyone that and you willing to work with anyone in the world, um, and you just double in the world, um, and you just double in the world, um, and you just double down on it and double down on it, there down on it and double down on it, there down on it and double down on it, there is a business model there. I think I've is a business model there. I think I've is a business model there. I think I've had to wrestle with I'm not going to had to wrestle with I'm not going to had to wrestle with I'm not going to raise money. This is not going to be I raise money. This is not going to be I raise money. This is not going to be I don't I'm not going to do a seed round don't I'm not going to do a seed round don't I'm not going to do a seed round or a series A or a series B and this or a series A or a series B and this or a series A or a series B and this certainly isn't going to an IPO. This is certainly isn't going to an IPO. This is certainly isn't going to an IPO. This is going to be a lifestyle business. going to be a lifestyle business. going to be a lifestyle business. » And » And » And I reflect on that. I was like, yeah, I reflect on that. I was like, yeah, I reflect on that. I was like, yeah, that's that's great. I'm really content that's that's great. I'm really content that's that's great. I'm really content with that. My dad had a lifestyle with that. My dad had a lifestyle with that. My dad had a lifestyle business like and we had a great business like and we had a great business like and we had a great lifestyle and my kids will too and I'm lifestyle and my kids will too and I'm lifestyle and my kids will too and I'm grateful for this. A lifestyle business grateful for this. A lifestyle business grateful for this. A lifestyle business is fantastic. Like that's the top 1% of is fantastic. Like that's the top 1% of is fantastic. Like that's the top 1% of the world. So I'm grateful for that. I I the world. So I'm grateful for that. I I the world. So I'm grateful for that. I I think that sort of that silicon think that sort of that silicon think that sort of that silicon » when you say lifestyle, do you mean like » when you say lifestyle, do you mean like » when you say lifestyle, do you mean like verse product verse product verse product » like or versus uh » like or versus uh » like or versus uh » Oh, I'm trying to think the right word. » Oh, I'm trying to think the right word. » Oh, I'm trying to think the right word. I'm struggling with because when I think I'm struggling with because when I think I'm struggling with because when I think of in my world when I think of a of in my world when I think of a of in my world when I think of a lifestyle brand that means you don't lifestyle brand that means you don't lifestyle brand that means you don't make anything and you just throw a make anything and you just throw a make anything and you just throw a lifestyle brand on that thing and then lifestyle brand on that thing and then lifestyle brand on that thing and then it gets sold. it gets sold. it gets sold. » Um and cuz you're right, you're on » Um and cuz you're right, you're on » Um and cuz you're right, you're on to something. What you're doing is to something. What you're doing is to something. What you're doing is that in a sense, but in a kind of a that in a sense, but in a kind of a that in a sense, but in a kind of a different take. Well, in software different take. Well, in software different take. Well, in software um or maybe in like Silicon Valley um or maybe in like Silicon Valley um or maybe in like Silicon Valley investing, a lifestyle business is a investing, a lifestyle business is a investing, a lifestyle business is a company that has a low ceiling and is company that has a low ceiling and is company that has a low ceiling and is really almost uninvestable. And it's a really almost uninvestable. And it's a really almost uninvestable. And it's a it's a it's a disparaging term to it's a it's a disparaging term to it's a it's a disparaging term to entrepreneurs. That's they mean it as a entrepreneurs. That's they mean it as a entrepreneurs. That's they mean it as a disparaging way of like disparaging way of like disparaging way of like » that's quaint, » that's quaint, » that's quaint, » right? » right? » right? » That that services business is quaint. » That that services business is quaint. » That that services business is quaint. And when you think about who's going And when you think about who's going And when you think about who's going through Y Combinator and who's going to through Y Combinator and who's going to through Y Combinator and who's going to Silicon Valley, they're saying we're Silicon Valley, they're saying we're Silicon Valley, they're saying we're going to be like industry altering going to be like industry altering going to be like industry altering companies doing if if their if their companies doing if if their if their companies doing if if their if their ambition is less than a billion dollars ambition is less than a billion dollars ambition is less than a billion dollars in revenue a year, in revenue a year, in revenue a year, » they seem silly. And I think I got » they seem silly. And I think I got » they seem silly. And I think I got distracted by some of that shiny object distracted by some of that shiny object distracted by some of that shiny object of this thing of like go and raise money of this thing of like go and raise money of this thing of like go and raise money and go get investor and those kind of and go get investor and those kind of and go get investor and those kind of things. Not that I ever even did it, but things. Not that I ever even did it, but things. Not that I ever even did it, but I think just that was the water I was I think just that was the water I was I think just that was the water I was swimming in of entrepreneurship is like swimming in of entrepreneurship is like swimming in of entrepreneurship is like that's how it's done and I was like I that's how it's done and I was like I that's how it's done and I was like I don't want any of that. I I think I got don't want any of that. I I think I got don't want any of that. I I think I got to the point where and even now as I say to the point where and even now as I say to the point where and even now as I say that talk about a chip on my shoulder. that talk about a chip on my shoulder. that talk about a chip on my shoulder. I'm like I hear a Silicon Valley person I'm like I hear a Silicon Valley person I'm like I hear a Silicon Valley person hearing me say I don't want that and hearing me say I don't want that and hearing me say I don't want that and they're like that's cute. You never they're like that's cute. You never they're like that's cute. You never would have had it anyway. Like I hear would have had it anyway. Like I hear would have had it anyway. Like I hear that in my heart of like you didn't have that in my heart of like you didn't have that in my heart of like you didn't have the talent. You didn't have the talent. You didn't have the talent. You didn't have the charisma, the charm. You couldn't have charisma, the charm. You couldn't have charisma, the charm. You couldn't have gone and raised that money. It's very gone and raised that money. It's very gone and raised that money. It's very quaint now that you're like, "Actually, quaint now that you're like, "Actually, quaint now that you're like, "Actually, I don't want to do that." You know, it's I don't want to do that." You know, it's I don't want to do that." You know, it's like breaking up with someone before like breaking up with someone before like breaking up with someone before they break up with you. I didn't go out they break up with you. I didn't go out they break up with you. I didn't go out to Silicon Valley and try and raise a to Silicon Valley and try and raise a to Silicon Valley and try and raise a million dollars. I've never tried in my million dollars. I've never tried in my million dollars. I've never tried in my life. I I don't know if I could. My life. I I don't know if I could. My life. I I don't know if I could. My fundraising background with my nonprofit fundraising background with my nonprofit fundraising background with my nonprofit would indicate that I can't. Um, so I would indicate that I can't. Um, so I would indicate that I can't. Um, so I think » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » But I think for me, I was able to » But I think for me, I was able to » But I think for me, I was able to separate. I was like, I hear that voice separate. I was like, I hear that voice separate. I was like, I hear that voice in my head and I'm like, and it just in my head and I'm like, and it just in my head and I'm like, and it just sort of glides off. sort of glides off. sort of glides off. » Yeah. I was like, good for you. » Yeah. I was like, good for you. » Yeah. I was like, good for you. » I'm good. like I'm I'm good with this. » I'm good. like I'm I'm good with this. » I'm good. like I'm I'm good with this. Like I found my thing. You don't So few Like I found my thing. You don't So few Like I found my thing. You don't So few people find this. Why would I trade this people find this. Why would I trade this people find this. Why would I trade this for investors and pressure and growth for investors and pressure and growth for investors and pressure and growth when that's just not necessary? when that's just not necessary? when that's just not necessary? » And I'm trying to remember what the » And I'm trying to remember what the » And I'm trying to remember what the number is now, but how much money till number is now, but how much money till number is now, but how much money till you stop experiencing you stop experiencing you stop experiencing » diminishing returns. » diminishing returns. » diminishing returns. » Yeah. Diminishing returns. It was It was » Yeah. Diminishing returns. It was It was » Yeah. Diminishing returns. It was It was like two high 200s and then I think it like two high 200s and then I think it like two high 200s and then I think it just went up, but it was still like 300. just went up, but it was still like 300. just went up, but it was still like 300. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Like it wasn't like » Like it wasn't like » Like it wasn't like » there's been millions a year. Some have » there's been millions a year. Some have » there's been millions a year. Some have plugged it at like 70,000 plugged it at like 70,000 plugged it at like 70,000 » that like the peak of stability like is » that like the peak of stability like is » that like the peak of stability like is 70,000 and it's you get like a little 70,000 and it's you get like a little 70,000 and it's you get like a little bit happier as you get more but it's way bit happier as you get more but it's way bit happier as you get more but it's way diminishing returns. Now below 70 diminishing returns. Now below 70 diminishing returns. Now below 70 » more money makes you happier. Like it's » more money makes you happier. Like it's » more money makes you happier. Like it's just like un like if you get because just like un like if you get because just like un like if you get because that stability there's such a joy in that stability there's such a joy in that stability there's such a joy in that sort of abundance where you can say that sort of abundance where you can say that sort of abundance where you can say like we don't have to worry about our like we don't have to worry about our like we don't have to worry about our day-to-day bills that stress and strain. day-to-day bills that stress and strain. day-to-day bills that stress and strain. I don't know how anyone starts a company I don't know how anyone starts a company I don't know how anyone starts a company with all of that ambiguity on top of not with all of that ambiguity on top of not with all of that ambiguity on top of not being able to pay bills dayto-day. Like being able to pay bills dayto-day. Like being able to pay bills dayto-day. Like it's brutal. That is such a hard thing it's brutal. That is such a hard thing it's brutal. That is such a hard thing to make. Um to make. Um to make. Um » you're right. This this said 75,000 » you're right. This this said 75,000 » you're right. This this said 75,000 um which has changed. So now it's 100 um which has changed. So now it's 100 um which has changed. So now it's 100 110. 110. 110. Um Um Um so now they're saying yeah most like the so now they're saying yeah most like the so now they're saying yeah most like the final point of happiness is 500,000 a final point of happiness is 500,000 a final point of happiness is 500,000 a year. That's interesting. I don't even year. That's interesting. I don't even year. That's interesting. I don't even know where Gemini is pulling all this know where Gemini is pulling all this know where Gemini is pulling all this data but data but data but » but it probably flat lines. Oh yeah, » but it probably flat lines. Oh yeah, » but it probably flat lines. Oh yeah, it's just where it's just like there is it's just where it's just like there is it's just where it's just like there is no more no more no more » additional thing. And I and I think for » additional thing. And I and I think for » additional thing. And I and I think for me me me » I have the privilege of hitting those » I have the privilege of hitting those » I have the privilege of hitting those numbers. Not the 500 number, but like numbers. Not the 500 number, but like numbers. Not the 500 number, but like the numbers where the 70,000 and even the numbers where the 70,000 and even the numbers where the 70,000 and even like the 125,000 like I hit those pretty like the 125,000 like I hit those pretty like the 125,000 like I hit those pretty early. early. early. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And then and I've just had the sense of » And then and I've just had the sense of » And then and I've just had the sense of like from here everything's gravy. like from here everything's gravy. like from here everything's gravy. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And now it's just like now so now I'm » And now it's just like now so now I'm » And now it's just like now so now I'm winning the game by 20. do the double winning the game by 20. do the double winning the game by 20. do the double reverse and if it if it if you fumble it reverse and if it if it if you fumble it reverse and if it if it if you fumble it and they score, and they score, and they score, » what's you're good. You're still » what's you're good. You're still » what's you're good. You're still standing on some real solid ground. And standing on some real solid ground. And standing on some real solid ground. And I think I have not always felt this. I'm I think I have not always felt this. I'm I think I have not always felt this. I'm feeling particularly abundant today, but feeling particularly abundant today, but feeling particularly abundant today, but there's been days that I have not been there's been days that I have not been there's been days that I have not been feeling this. feeling this. feeling this. » And I think Ellie has really helped » And I think Ellie has really helped » And I think Ellie has really helped ground me. Um I'll come home from work ground me. Um I'll come home from work ground me. Um I'll come home from work and I think she's like, "They love you." and I think she's like, "They love you." and I think she's like, "They love you." Like my kids, I've got three kids, Like my kids, I've got three kids, Like my kids, I've got three kids, Louis, Ford, and Rosie. They love me and Louis, Ford, and Rosie. They love me and Louis, Ford, and Rosie. They love me and they don't care about what I'm doing. they don't care about what I'm doing. they don't care about what I'm doing. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » They don't they don't care. » They don't they don't care. » They don't they don't care. » So true. » So true. » So true. » And they care that I'm home with them. » And they care that I'm home with them. » And they care that I'm home with them. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » They care that I'm present with them. » They care that I'm present with them. » They care that I'm present with them. And then if I think that if I'm anchored And then if I think that if I'm anchored And then if I think that if I'm anchored to that, to that, to that, » getting investors and raising millions » getting investors and raising millions » getting investors and raising millions of dollars and chasing these growth of dollars and chasing these growth of dollars and chasing these growth metrics does not make me more present metrics does not make me more present metrics does not make me more present with my kids. In fact, it directly takes with my kids. In fact, it directly takes with my kids. In fact, it directly takes away from them. And I was like, I don't away from them. And I was like, I don't away from them. And I was like, I don't I just don't need it. I don't need it. I just don't need it. I don't need it. I just don't need it. I don't need it. I've got what I need. And I think that I've got what I need. And I think that I've got what I need. And I think that there's so much striving that happens in there's so much striving that happens in there's so much striving that happens in entrepreneurship. And I'm just wondering entrepreneurship. And I'm just wondering entrepreneurship. And I'm just wondering if there's like and like desperation and if there's like and like desperation and if there's like and like desperation and like grit and all that. And we need all like grit and all that. And we need all like grit and all that. And we need all of those things, but I'm wondering if of those things, but I'm wondering if of those things, but I'm wondering if there's also like entrepreneurship from there's also like entrepreneurship from there's also like entrepreneurship from a place of abundance a place of abundance a place of abundance » where it's like I've got everything I » where it's like I've got everything I » where it's like I've got everything I need. Now, let's try some stuff. Let's need. Now, let's try some stuff. Let's need. Now, let's try some stuff. Let's just be creative and almost more just be creative and almost more just be creative and almost more artistic, artisal in the way we do it. artistic, artisal in the way we do it. artistic, artisal in the way we do it. And I think that part and I've seen you And I think that part and I've seen you And I think that part and I've seen you do some of that stuff. I've seen you do do some of that stuff. I've seen you do do some of that stuff. I've seen you do lots of that stuff where I'm like this lots of that stuff where I'm like this lots of that stuff where I'm like this is you're scratching a creative itch. is you're scratching a creative itch. is you're scratching a creative itch. » This isn't like a super solid business » This isn't like a super solid business » This isn't like a super solid business idea. You're idea. You're idea. You're » this Killer Growth podcast? Is that » this Killer Growth podcast? Is that » this Killer Growth podcast? Is that what you're referring to? what you're referring to? what you're referring to? » This is for you and that Well, we only » This is for you and that Well, we only » This is for you and that Well, we only live once. Who else are we doing this live once. Who else are we doing this live once. Who else are we doing this for? Of course, we should do it for? Of course, we should do it for? Of course, we should do it for ourselves. Like do it do it because it's ourselves. Like do it do it because it's ourselves. Like do it do it because it's fun. Because it's beautiful. fun. Because it's beautiful. fun. Because it's beautiful. » Yeah, it's really good. I love the Honey » Yeah, it's really good. I love the Honey » Yeah, it's really good. I love the Honey Stack. So, just launched last week, Stack. So, just launched last week, Stack. So, just launched last week, right? right? right? » Just launched last week. um been » Just launched last week. um been » Just launched last week. um been building it for a while doing it right. building it for a while doing it right. building it for a while doing it right. I mean theor I mean theor I mean theor like a decade in different forms like a decade in different forms like a decade in different forms » which I think is cool because I mean you » which I think is cool because I mean you » which I think is cool because I mean you were doing this back in Lion Graph days. were doing this back in Lion Graph days. were doing this back in Lion Graph days. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And and yeah different » And and yeah different » And and yeah different » I think I think this is the first » I think I think this is the first » I think I think this is the first » working with nonprofits. » working with nonprofits. » working with nonprofits. » I've been and I've been consulting but » I've been and I've been consulting but » I've been and I've been consulting but this is the first time I've put a real this is the first time I've put a real this is the first time I've put a real framework around what it is of like framework around what it is of like framework around what it is of like » like what your process is. » like what your process is. » like what your process is. » We consult in this specific way. We » We consult in this specific way. We » We consult in this specific way. We design custom software for nonprofits in design custom software for nonprofits in design custom software for nonprofits in this specific way, which is rare. Very this specific way, which is rare. Very this specific way, which is rare. Very few people market directly to few people market directly to few people market directly to nonprofits, saying we'll build custom nonprofits, saying we'll build custom nonprofits, saying we'll build custom software for your use cases at a price software for your use cases at a price software for your use cases at a price point you can afford. That's point you can afford. That's point you can afford. That's » And you're not building custom software » And you're not building custom software » And you're not building custom software for anyone but nonprofits. for anyone but nonprofits. for anyone but nonprofits. » Yeah, it's just nonprofit. It's crazy. » Yeah, it's just nonprofit. It's crazy. » Yeah, it's just nonprofit. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. » You came to my BNI group and uh a » You came to my BNI group and uh a » You came to my BNI group and uh a gentleman grilled you for that, which gentleman grilled you for that, which gentleman grilled you for that, which was hilarious. Why not everybody else? was hilarious. Why not everybody else? was hilarious. Why not everybody else? And you're like, And you're like, And you're like, » you didn't even You just said ah that's » you didn't even You just said ah that's » you didn't even You just said ah that's just that's my thing. just that's my thing. just that's my thing. » That's my thing. » That's my thing. » That's my thing. » I think that's all you said. That's my » I think that's all you said. That's my » I think that's all you said. That's my thing. I thing. I thing. I » But I love that focus. But I think uh if » But I love that focus. But I think uh if » But I love that focus. But I think uh if I look at just consulting in the studio I look at just consulting in the studio I look at just consulting in the studio where we're helping them build a modern where we're helping them build a modern where we're helping them build a modern tech stack or building something custom tech stack or building something custom tech stack or building something custom which has only become accessible to them which has only become accessible to them which has only become accessible to them in the last few years because of the in the last few years because of the in the last few years because of the advancements in AI. advancements in AI. advancements in AI. » Even still, you know, I think 90 to 95% » Even still, you know, I think 90 to 95% » Even still, you know, I think 90 to 95% of nonprofits have less than 100,000 in of nonprofits have less than 100,000 in of nonprofits have less than 100,000 in revenue a year. revenue a year. revenue a year. » They're not going to pay for any of » They're not going to pay for any of » They're not going to pay for any of this. They can't afford it. They can this. They can't afford it. They can this. They can't afford it. They can barely afford to pay their staff. So barely afford to pay their staff. So barely afford to pay their staff. So when I think of the nonprofit world and when I think of the nonprofit world and when I think of the nonprofit world and I'm talking about building a business I'm talking about building a business I'm talking about building a business model, genuinely I'm really only model, genuinely I'm really only model, genuinely I'm really only marketing those services to the top 5% marketing those services to the top 5% marketing those services to the top 5% of nonprofits who can afford it. Like of nonprofits who can afford it. Like of nonprofits who can afford it. Like who can hire another staff member who's who can hire another staff member who's who can hire another staff member who's very technical and can help guide and very technical and can help guide and very technical and can help guide and lead their team at a high level. And lead their team at a high level. And lead their team at a high level. And those nonprofits, the business case those nonprofits, the business case those nonprofits, the business case makes total sense at that size. makes total sense at that size. makes total sense at that size. » But I don't I'm just not I'm not content » But I don't I'm just not I'm not content » But I don't I'm just not I'm not content to just do that. I want to share all of to just do that. I want to share all of to just do that. I want to share all of these learnings with all nonprofits these learnings with all nonprofits these learnings with all nonprofits because so many of these patterns are because so many of these patterns are because so many of these patterns are universal. Whether you've got 10 million universal. Whether you've got 10 million universal. Whether you've got 10 million in revenue, a million of revenue, or in revenue, a million of revenue, or in revenue, a million of revenue, or 100,000 in revenue, you still have to 100,000 in revenue, you still have to 100,000 in revenue, you still have to get super clear and define your process. get super clear and define your process. get super clear and define your process. Get clear about who your audiences are, Get clear about who your audiences are, Get clear about who your audiences are, how you del like bring them through a how you del like bring them through a how you del like bring them through a system. system. system. » And that's why the courses and the » And that's why the courses and the » And that's why the courses and the cohorts really, right? It's like the cohorts really, right? It's like the cohorts really, right? It's like the honey stack. honey stack. honey stack. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » The honey stack is education, » The honey stack is education, » The honey stack is education, consulting, custom software. consulting, custom software. consulting, custom software. » Yeah. um your uh software stack or your » Yeah. um your uh software stack or your » Yeah. um your uh software stack or your tech stack. tech stack. tech stack. » Yes. » Yes. » Yes. » Essentially, which does that fall under » Essentially, which does that fall under » Essentially, which does that fall under consulting or what is stu is studio the consulting or what is stu is studio the consulting or what is stu is studio the custom software? custom software? custom software? » Studio is custom software » Studio is custom software » Studio is custom software straightforward » because even if someone wants us to » because even if someone wants us to » because even if someone wants us to build custom software, it'll never be on build custom software, it'll never be on build custom software, it'll never be on an island. They will have an existing an island. They will have an existing an island. They will have an existing tech where they're like we need our CRM tech where they're like we need our CRM tech where they're like we need our CRM and our project management to integrate and our project management to integrate and our project management to integrate with this one real bespoke use case. Um, with this one real bespoke use case. Um, with this one real bespoke use case. Um, so it's all about building just making so it's all about building just making so it's all about building just making that tech stack modern. And like when I that tech stack modern. And like when I that tech stack modern. And like when I complain about that pricing thing, I'm complain about that pricing thing, I'm complain about that pricing thing, I'm like, you're in a three-year contract like, you're in a three-year contract like, you're in a three-year contract and the company doesn't have an API. and the company doesn't have an API. and the company doesn't have an API. That's going to limit That's going to limit That's going to limit » building a modern techst in a thousand » building a modern techst in a thousand » building a modern techst in a thousand ways. You cannot build an integrated ways. You cannot build an integrated ways. You cannot build an integrated system. You cannot get any of the system. You cannot get any of the system. You cannot get any of the benefits that AI are offering you if benefits that AI are offering you if benefits that AI are offering you if that's the type of companies that you've that's the type of companies that you've that's the type of companies that you've signed up with. So it's even I love AI. signed up with. So it's even I love AI. signed up with. So it's even I love AI. It's tremendous. I've got concerns as we It's tremendous. I've got concerns as we It's tremendous. I've got concerns as we all should, but generally it's been all should, but generally it's been all should, but generally it's been profoundly powerful in my day-to-day profoundly powerful in my day-to-day profoundly powerful in my day-to-day work and in the consulting we're doing. work and in the consulting we're doing. work and in the consulting we're doing. And even still, uh, if you don't have a And even still, uh, if you don't have a And even still, uh, if you don't have a modern tool set underneath it with like modern tool set underneath it with like modern tool set underneath it with like systems of record like a a project systems of record like a a project systems of record like a a project management or a CRM, even accounting management or a CRM, even accounting management or a CRM, even accounting software, if you don't have those, AI is software, if you don't have those, AI is software, if you don't have those, AI is only going to be like chatting in the only going to be like chatting in the only going to be like chatting in the clouds with you. It can't actually move clouds with you. It can't actually move clouds with you. It can't actually move information through your organization information through your organization information through your organization because it won't have access to it. So, because it won't have access to it. So, because it won't have access to it. So, I still need to build a modern I still need to build a modern I still need to build a modern foundation so that they can get access foundation so that they can get access foundation so that they can get access and benefit from AI. So, yeah, it's and benefit from AI. So, yeah, it's and benefit from AI. So, yeah, it's helping them just build that modern tech helping them just build that modern tech helping them just build that modern tech stack, whether I'm teaching them, stack, whether I'm teaching them, stack, whether I'm teaching them, building something bespoke, or helping building something bespoke, or helping building something bespoke, or helping them assemble and buy their tools. them assemble and buy their tools. them assemble and buy their tools. » Yep. Help nonprofits use software. Well, » Yep. Help nonprofits use software. Well, » Yep. Help nonprofits use software. Well, » there you go. There you go. » there you go. There you go. » there you go. There you go. » It's a good line. I found it on this » It's a good line. I found it on this » It's a good line. I found it on this website called honeystack. Agency. website called honeystack. Agency. website called honeystack. Agency. » It's a great line. » It's a great line. » It's a great line. » I've heard about that. Even even with » I've heard about that. Even even with » I've heard about that. Even even with building this website, there's so many building this website, there's so many building this website, there's so many things where I did it just because it's things where I did it just because it's things where I did it just because it's fun. And I I say I did it, but Lucy fun. And I I say I did it, but Lucy fun. And I I say I did it, but Lucy helped a tremendous amount with the copy helped a tremendous amount with the copy helped a tremendous amount with the copy and Ricky was the designer. We we used and Ricky was the designer. We we used and Ricky was the designer. We we used um we asked Ricky to handdraw um we asked Ricky to handdraw um we asked Ricky to handdraw illustrations throughout the website of illustrations throughout the website of illustrations throughout the website of this sort of idea. It's a based on a this sort of idea. It's a based on a this sort of idea. It's a based on a mutualistic relationship between the mutualistic relationship between the mutualistic relationship between the honey guide and the honey badger. Uh honey guide and the honey badger. Uh honey guide and the honey badger. Uh that's it's one of there's some in that's it's one of there's some in that's it's one of there's some in nature like this where these two nature like this where these two nature like this where these two different species will team up to do different species will team up to do different species will team up to do something together. something together. something together. » And I like that idea of a technology a » And I like that idea of a technology a » And I like that idea of a technology a tech bro teaming up with nonprofits like tech bro teaming up with nonprofits like tech bro teaming up with nonprofits like these being two really different species these being two really different species these being two really different species coming to go do something. And so the coming to go do something. And so the coming to go do something. And so the honey guide will go to basically will honey guide will go to basically will honey guide will go to basically will scout where uh honeycombs are and the scout where uh honeycombs are and the scout where uh honeycombs are and the badger will follow the honey guide. the badger will follow the honey guide. the badger will follow the honey guide. the badger tears it open with its claws and badger tears it open with its claws and badger tears it open with its claws and then they both share the honey and then they both share the honey and then they both share the honey and that's that's the principle of it. So I that's that's the principle of it. So I that's that's the principle of it. So I like us being the honey guide and I love like us being the honey guide and I love like us being the honey guide and I love the honey badger being this sort of the honey badger being this sort of the honey badger being this sort of aggressive animal that like gets stuff aggressive animal that like gets stuff aggressive animal that like gets stuff done. That's how I view nonprofit done. That's how I view nonprofit done. That's how I view nonprofit leaders. Um but this mutualistic leaders. Um but this mutualistic leaders. Um but this mutualistic relationship to where um if we do this relationship to where um if we do this relationship to where um if we do this together, I think we're helping empower together, I think we're helping empower together, I think we're helping empower these nonprofits to make the world a these nonprofits to make the world a these nonprofits to make the world a better place which will only benefit us. better place which will only benefit us. better place which will only benefit us. So, it does have this sort of um So, it does have this sort of um So, it does have this sort of um spiraling upwards feel. And my kids love spiraling upwards feel. And my kids love spiraling upwards feel. And my kids love animals and they don't care at all about animals and they don't care at all about animals and they don't care at all about what I do. But when I show them my what I do. But when I show them my what I do. But when I show them my website and I was like, "We got a honey website and I was like, "We got a honey website and I was like, "We got a honey guide. We got a honey badger." And guide. We got a honey badger." And guide. We got a honey badger." And they're like, "Those are cool. they're like, "Those are cool. they're like, "Those are cool. » I am cool." And I just we just get to do » I am cool." And I just we just get to do » I am cool." And I just we just get to do that for fun. We get to have fun. And I that for fun. We get to have fun. And I that for fun. We get to have fun. And I don't don't don't » I'm not worried about like will this » I'm not worried about like will this » I'm not worried about like will this scale? What will my investors think? I'm scale? What will my investors think? I'm scale? What will my investors think? I'm like, I like this. And people that like, I like this. And people that like, I like this. And people that like me will probably like it, too. And that me will probably like it, too. And that me will probably like it, too. And that's all I have to worry about. that's all I have to worry about. that's all I have to worry about. » Yep. It's powerful. We're going to end » Yep. It's powerful. We're going to end » Yep. It's powerful. We're going to end on that. That was absolutely perfect. on that. That was absolutely perfect. on that. That was absolutely perfect. Love you, brother. Thank you for being Love you, brother. Thank you for being Love you, brother. Thank you for being here. I've been looking forward to it. here. I've been looking forward to it. here. I've been looking forward to it. Everyone, go check out honeystack.ag. Everyone, go check out honeystack.ag. Everyone, go check out honeystack.ag. Um, I love the website. It's a whole lot Um, I love the website. It's a whole lot Um, I love the website. It's a whole lot of fun. I I really enjoy the part where of fun. I I really enjoy the part where of fun. I I really enjoy the part where you're stuck with my add. It's It's fun. you're stuck with my add. It's It's fun. you're stuck with my add. It's It's fun. It forces me. It's things I would skip It forces me. It's things I would skip It forces me. It's things I would skip » and I just I'm stuck there in the » and I just I'm stuck there in the » and I just I'm stuck there in the flywheel. I don't let you don't let me flywheel. I don't let you don't let me flywheel. I don't let you don't let me go past it. go past it. go past it. » I worked really hard on this. I worked » I worked really hard on this. I worked » I worked really hard on this. I worked really hard on this. Pay attention to really hard on this. Pay attention to really hard on this. Pay attention to me. I have 11 brothers and sisters. Pay me. I have 11 brothers and sisters. Pay me. I have 11 brothers and sisters. Pay attention to me. Appreciate you. ---