Cisco Had No CRM. So He Built One: Sandy Mehra and the Making of Telgoo5 | Ep 58

You're the one the first voiceover IP You're the one the first voiceover IP call centers when voiceover IP was just call centers when voiceover IP was just call centers when voiceover IP was just invented. So, they sold us this huge invented. So, they sold us this huge invented. So, they sold us this huge equipment Cisco. It's great. Like great. equipment Cisco. It's great. Like great. equipment Cisco. It's great. Like great. This is nice. Where's the CRM? They're This is nice. Where's the CRM? They're This is nice. Where's the CRM? They're like, we don't have a CRM. We're like, like, we don't have a CRM. We're like, like, we don't have a CRM. We're like, what do you mean you don't have a CRM? what do you mean you don't have a CRM? what do you mean you don't have a CRM? So, we overnight built our own CRM So, we overnight built our own CRM So, we overnight built our own CRM technology integrating telephony in it. technology integrating telephony in it. technology integrating telephony in it. » The Killer Growth Podcast starts now. What's up, guys? Sam McVey here with the What's up, guys? Sam McVey here with the Killer Growth Podcast. Today, I have Killer Growth Podcast. Today, I have Killer Growth Podcast. Today, I have Sandeep Mera, the CEO of Telgoo5. Sandeep Mera, the CEO of Telgoo5. Sandeep Mera, the CEO of Telgoo5. Welcome. Good to have you here. Welcome. Good to have you here. Welcome. Good to have you here. » Thank you, Sam. Good to be here. » Thank you, Sam. Good to be here. » Thank you, Sam. Good to be here. » Yeah. I We've never really talked » Yeah. I We've never really talked » Yeah. I We've never really talked before. We talked like 30 seconds, before. We talked like 30 seconds, before. We talked like 30 seconds, right? And then fired this off. So, uh right? And then fired this off. So, uh right? And then fired this off. So, uh the general uh generally how we start the general uh generally how we start the general uh generally how we start this podcast, it's pretty this podcast, it's pretty this podcast, it's pretty straightforward. I just say straightforward. I just say straightforward. I just say uh what's Sandeep's story? How did he uh what's Sandeep's story? How did he uh what's Sandeep's story? How did he get to Telgoo5? Tell us that story. get to Telgoo5? Tell us that story. get to Telgoo5? Tell us that story. » Well, it's a long story. So, I hope you » Well, it's a long story. So, I hope you » Well, it's a long story. So, I hope you have a lot of time, but I'll start with have a lot of time, but I'll start with have a lot of time, but I'll start with a small introduction about myself. My a small introduction about myself. My a small introduction about myself. My name is Sandeep Mera, but my real name is Sandeep Mera, but my real name is Sandeep Mera, but my real name is Sandeep. Um but everybody calls me is Sandeep. Um but everybody calls me is Sandeep. Um but everybody calls me Sandeep, and I like to say uh my dad My Sandeep, and I like to say uh my dad My Sandeep, and I like to say uh my dad My dog also called me Sandeep, but it dog also called me Sandeep, but it dog also called me Sandeep, but it literally started from my dad who literally started from my dad who literally started from my dad who started calling me Sandeep and it stuck started calling me Sandeep and it stuck started calling me Sandeep and it stuck from a very young age. Um live in New from a very young age. Um live in New from a very young age. Um live in New York with two kids about 20 minutes away York with two kids about 20 minutes away York with two kids about 20 minutes away from our offices where we are located from our offices where we are located from our offices where we are located Midtown Bryant Park. Um uh Telgoo5 was Midtown Bryant Park. Um uh Telgoo5 was Midtown Bryant Park. Um uh Telgoo5 was has been a journey for over 20 years has been a journey for over 20 years has been a journey for over 20 years uh where we have become a platform of uh where we have become a platform of uh where we have become a platform of choice uh for mobile operators, fiber uh for mobile operators, fiber uh for mobile operators, fiber operators, enterprise B2C. We actually operators, enterprise B2C. We actually operators, enterprise B2C. We actually do a lot do a lot do a lot um today because we've become more of an um today because we've become more of an um today because we've become more of an ecosystem which provides billing ecosystem which provides billing ecosystem which provides billing ecosystems for mobile companies. But we ecosystems for mobile companies. But we ecosystems for mobile companies. But we are far more than a billing platform are far more than a billing platform are far more than a billing platform because you've got the e-commerce because you've got the e-commerce because you've got the e-commerce platform where you can sign up customers, and where you can sign up customers, and where you can sign up customers, and then you get to you've got customer then you get to you've got customer then you get to you've got customer apps, and you've got a CRM, and you've apps, and you've got a CRM, and you've apps, and you've got a CRM, and you've got an e-commerce experience, got an e-commerce experience, got an e-commerce experience, got inventory modules, and you've got other inventory modules, and you've got other inventory modules, and you've got other apps, and a 355° apps, and a 355° apps, and a 355° API access. API access. API access. And um we own 100% of our IP. Uh been in And um we own 100% of our IP. Uh been in And um we own 100% of our IP. Uh been in business for over 20 years. business for over 20 years. business for over 20 years. » Wow. » Wow. » Wow. » They that, and when I get on calls, » They that, and when I get on calls, » They that, and when I get on calls, they're like I said I was on a they're like I said I was on a they're like I said I was on a very call with a very interesting company call with a very interesting company call with a very interesting company yesterday. Can't name them, of course. yesterday. Can't name them, of course. yesterday. Can't name them, of course. Very, very large. And I said my I had a Very, very large. And I said my I had a Very, very large. And I said my I had a strategy said, "I've been in telecom for strategy said, "I've been in telecom for strategy said, "I've been in telecom for 30 years." And I said, "I've been in 30 years." And I said, "I've been in 30 years." And I said, "I've been in telecom 25 years." And then the other telecom 25 years." And then the other telecom 25 years." And then the other person said, "I've been in 20 years as person said, "I've been in 20 years as person said, "I've been in 20 years as well." And the client said, "I've been well." And the client said, "I've been well." And the client said, "I've been 35 years." And he looked at all of us. 35 years." And he looked at all of us. 35 years." And he looked at all of us. He said, He said, He said, "That doesn't mean all of us are that "That doesn't mean all of us are that "That doesn't mean all of us are that old." old." old." But it literally sounds like that. But it literally sounds like that. But it literally sounds like that. » I'm like, "Oh my god, that's so funny." » I'm like, "Oh my god, that's so funny." » I'm like, "Oh my god, that's so funny." » Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. So yeah, » Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. So yeah, » Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. So yeah, let's break down so what What was your let's break down so what What was your let's break down so what What was your background for you to get into this background for you to get into this background for you to get into this industry? Into the telecom industry? industry? Into the telecom industry? industry? Into the telecom industry? » Oh my god. Um so we were a call center » Oh my god. Um so we were a call center » Oh my god. Um so we were a call center company, actually, believe it or not. company, actually, believe it or not. company, actually, believe it or not. And uh one of our clients uh which meant And uh one of our clients uh which meant And uh one of our clients uh which meant um okay, I'll go back a bit. So our we um okay, I'll go back a bit. So our we um okay, I'll go back a bit. So our we got sold a lot of uh got sold a lot of uh got sold a lot of uh hardware from Cisco, which was awesome. hardware from Cisco, which was awesome. hardware from Cisco, which was awesome. You're the one of the first voice over You're the one of the first voice over You're the one of the first voice over IP call centers when voice over IP was IP call centers when voice over IP was IP call centers when voice over IP was just invented. So they sold us this huge just invented. So they sold us this huge just invented. So they sold us this huge equipment, Cisco, which is great. Like, equipment, Cisco, which is great. Like, equipment, Cisco, which is great. Like, "Great, this is nice. Where's the CRM?" "Great, this is nice. Where's the CRM?" "Great, this is nice. Where's the CRM?" They're like, "We don't have a CRM." They're like, "We don't have a CRM." They're like, "We don't have a CRM." They're like, "What do you mean you They're like, "What do you mean you They're like, "What do you mean you don't have a CRM?" don't have a CRM?" don't have a CRM?" So we overnight built our own CRM So we overnight built our own CRM So we overnight built our own CRM technology integrating telephony in it. technology integrating telephony in it. technology integrating telephony in it. As we went across that business grew, As we went across that business grew, As we went across that business grew, and one of our customers was starting a and one of our customers was starting a and one of our customers was starting a first MVNO in Columbus, Ohio. And they first MVNO in Columbus, Ohio. And they first MVNO in Columbus, Ohio. And they said, "We love the CRM. Can you extend said, "We love the CRM. Can you extend said, "We love the CRM. Can you extend it to us?" Like, yes. And from there it to us?" Like, yes. And from there it to us?" Like, yes. And from there came out the first version of came out the first version of came out the first version of » What is a Sandy? I'm going to » What is a Sandy? I'm going to » What is a Sandy? I'm going to interrupt you. What's an MVNO? interrupt you. What's an MVNO? interrupt you. What's an MVNO? » Okay. Mobile virtual network operators. » Okay. Mobile virtual network operators. » Okay. Mobile virtual network operators. You've got three large carriers, AT&T, You've got three large carriers, AT&T, You've got three large carriers, AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile. All of that we Verizon, and T-Mobile. All of that we Verizon, and T-Mobile. All of that we work with. Beyond those, there are work with. Beyond those, there are work with. Beyond those, there are companies who are mobile companies like companies who are mobile companies like companies who are mobile companies like Surf that you would have heard, Boost Surf that you would have heard, Boost Surf that you would have heard, Boost and » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Boost Mobile or um » Boost Mobile or um » Boost Mobile or um I mean, there's so many of them. I mean, there's so many of them. I mean, there's so many of them. There's so many of them that have which There's so many of them that have which There's so many of them that have which service different brands of customers. service different brands of customers. service different brands of customers. So, what these people do is they So, what these people do is they So, what these people do is they are mobile operators. They just don't are mobile operators. They just don't are mobile operators. They just don't buy the spectrum and they don't buy the buy the spectrum and they don't buy the buy the spectrum and they don't buy the licenses. They're licensed for They licenses. They're licensed for They licenses. They're licensed for They don't buy the spectrum and they don't don't buy the spectrum and they don't don't buy the spectrum and they don't have the towers. have the towers. have the towers. » Mhm. » Mhm. » Mhm. » What they do is they go to a carrier and » What they do is they go to a carrier and » What they do is they go to a carrier and say, "Hey, I'll buy this I'll buy these say, "Hey, I'll buy this I'll buy these say, "Hey, I'll buy this I'll buy these wholesale goods from you and I want to wholesale goods from you and I want to wholesale goods from you and I want to service this set of customers who I know service this set of customers who I know service this set of customers who I know very well." So, they are That's why mo- very well." So, they are That's why mo- very well." So, they are That's why mo- it's called the mobile virtual network it's called the mobile virtual network it's called the mobile virtual network operator world. Then you've got a layer operator world. Then you've got a layer operator world. Then you've got a layer above in the middle of them also above in the middle of them also above in the middle of them also aggregator. If you go to carrier and aggregator. If you go to carrier and aggregator. If you go to carrier and there's like, "I want to become a there's like, "I want to become a there's like, "I want to become a telecom company." They're like, "Yeah, telecom company." They're like, "Yeah, telecom company." They're like, "Yeah, sure. Come on over." And sure. Come on over." And sure. Come on over." And but we need a 30 million deposit. You're but we need a 30 million deposit. You're but we need a 30 million deposit. You're like, "I don't have 30 million." They're like, "I don't have 30 million." They're like, "I don't have 30 million." They're like, "Okay, go to an aggregator." They like, "Okay, go to an aggregator." They like, "Okay, go to an aggregator." They are like, "My distributor aggregator, are like, "My distributor aggregator, are like, "My distributor aggregator, you can buy from them. I sell to them in you can buy from them. I sell to them in you can buy from them. I sell to them in bulk already." So, we supply aggregator bulk already." So, we supply aggregator bulk already." So, we supply aggregator people software as well. Three legs to people software as well. Three legs to people software as well. Three legs to it. You've got carriers who sit right at it. You've got carriers who sit right at it. You've got carriers who sit right at top, then you've got aggregators, and top, then you've got aggregators, and top, then you've got aggregators, and then you've got MVNOs. MVNOs can be then you've got MVNOs. MVNOs can be then you've got MVNOs. MVNOs can be business to business or business to business to business or business to business to business or business to consumer. consumer. consumer. » Interesting. Yeah, I've always wondered » Interesting. Yeah, I've always wondered » Interesting. Yeah, I've always wondered how that works. Mint is what comes to how that works. Mint is what comes to how that works. Mint is what comes to mind. Ryan Reynolds is in all the ads. mind. Ryan Reynolds is in all the ads. mind. Ryan Reynolds is in all the ads. So, are they a What Where would they be So, are they a What Where would they be So, are they a What Where would they be on that spectrum? An MVNO? on that spectrum? An MVNO? on that spectrum? An MVNO? » An MVNO. Mobile virtual network » An MVNO. Mobile virtual network » An MVNO. Mobile virtual network operator. Absolutely right. operator. Absolutely right. operator. Absolutely right. » And so, they're just negotiating a deal » And so, they're just negotiating a deal » And so, they're just negotiating a deal with T-Mobile, Verizon, or AT&T. So, with T-Mobile, Verizon, or AT&T. So, with T-Mobile, Verizon, or AT&T. So, they're just buying wholesale rights to they're just buying wholesale rights to they're just buying wholesale rights to their towers, essentially, distribution. their towers, essentially, distribution. their towers, essentially, distribution. » Pretty much. Not the distribution, but » Pretty much. Not the distribution, but » Pretty much. Not the distribution, but wholesale rights to use right the wholesale rights to use right the wholesale rights to use right the network to light up customers of Mint. network to light up customers of Mint. network to light up customers of Mint. » Yeah. Yeah. How and then they advertise » Yeah. Yeah. How and then they advertise » Yeah. Yeah. How and then they advertise they're so much cheaper. We just they're so much cheaper. We just they're so much cheaper. We just switched yesterday. We were at Verizon. switched yesterday. We were at Verizon. switched yesterday. We were at Verizon. We moved our plan from AT&T to Verizon, We moved our plan from AT&T to Verizon, We moved our plan from AT&T to Verizon, our killer growth plan. And we got a our killer growth plan. And we got a our killer growth plan. And we got a crazy deal and it was like almost close crazy deal and it was like almost close crazy deal and it was like almost close to what Mint's deal is. But then I to what Mint's deal is. But then I to what Mint's deal is. But then I always wonder, I see, you know, the Ryan always wonder, I see, you know, the Ryan always wonder, I see, you know, the Ryan Reynolds ad and it's like $15 a month, Reynolds ad and it's like $15 a month, Reynolds ad and it's like $15 a month, unlimited everything. And I'm like, is unlimited everything. And I'm like, is unlimited everything. And I'm like, is it There's got to be a catch. Like, is it There's got to be a catch. Like, is it There's got to be a catch. Like, is it a little slower? Are you getting like it a little slower? Are you getting like it a little slower? Are you getting like a tier under? a tier under? a tier under? Is the coverage not as good? How are Is the coverage not as good? How are Is the coverage not as good? How are they able to make any money when they able to make any money when they able to make any money when the direct providers are charging even more? direct providers are charging even more? direct providers are charging even more? » So, direct providers have, » So, direct providers have, » So, direct providers have, um, you know, so they've got um, you know, so they've got um, you know, so they've got I have to be a little bit careful I have to be a little bit careful I have to be a little bit careful because I work a lot with direct because I work a lot with direct because I work a lot with direct providers also. They've got amazing providers also. They've got amazing providers also. They've got amazing service. So, but they're different value service. So, but they're different value service. So, but they're different value points. So, for a direct customer, points. So, for a direct customer, points. So, for a direct customer, direct provider, maybe, um, direct provider, maybe, um, direct provider, maybe, um, Mint Mobile and others have been Mint Mobile and others have been Mint Mobile and others have been successful in marketing to customers who successful in marketing to customers who successful in marketing to customers who direct providers, direct providers, direct providers, um, have not been able to or to a class um, have not been able to or to a class um, have not been able to or to a class or segment or to have that or segment or to have that or segment or to have that differentiator. And your differentiator. And your differentiator. And your differentiator could be in the bodega store. could be in the bodega store. could be in the bodega store. Your differentiator could be in Your differentiator could be in Your differentiator could be in um, a newly arrived immigrant. Uh, your um, a newly arrived immigrant. Uh, your um, a newly arrived immigrant. Uh, your differentiator could be who just wants a differentiator could be who just wants a differentiator could be who just wants a cheaper service for their child. And now cheaper service for their child. And now cheaper service for their child. And now you've got two children and they both you've got two children and they both you've got two children and they both want unlimited talk and text and you're want unlimited talk and text and you're want unlimited talk and text and you're like, well. And so, uh, some of the like, well. And so, uh, some of the like, well. And so, uh, some of the deals that you get with MVNOs might not deals that you get with MVNOs might not deals that you get with MVNOs might not have the best iPhones with it. They have the best iPhones with it. They have the best iPhones with it. They might have a generation lower iPhones. might have a generation lower iPhones. might have a generation lower iPhones. So, the device comes into play. So, the device comes into play. So, the device comes into play. » Mm. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. » Mm. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. » Mm. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. » Think of it like a different place and » Think of it like a different place and » Think of it like a different place and differentiate in the market. Now, is the differentiate in the market. Now, is the differentiate in the market. Now, is the service different? No. service different? No. service different? No. » Mhm. » Mhm. » Mhm. » Um I they can be, but very minuscule » Um I they can be, but very minuscule » Um I they can be, but very minuscule differences that you would notice. differences that you would notice. differences that you would notice. And those also, um but like for And those also, um but like for And those also, um but like for instance, very good example is Consumer instance, very good example is Consumer instance, very good example is Consumer Cellular, which sold to adults which Cellular, which sold to adults which Cellular, which sold to adults which sold to aging population. And when the sold to aging population. And when the sold to aging population. And when the aging population called, they came up aging population called, they came up aging population called, they came up with the model that you can call us with the model that you can call us with the model that you can call us anytime, and they would call their call anytime, and they would call their call anytime, and they would call their call center because they were lonely and they center because they were lonely and they center because they were lonely and they would just wanted somebody to talk to. would just wanted somebody to talk to. would just wanted somebody to talk to. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » service that? No. But it's a great » service that? No. But it's a great » service that? No. But it's a great service that they offer. So it's a service that they offer. So it's a service that they offer. So it's a differentiator. So there these niches differentiator. So there these niches differentiator. So there these niches that these people find, and then they that these people find, and then they that these people find, and then they work on those niches. They are more work on those niches. They are more work on those niches. They are more nimble, faster, with tools like us who nimble, faster, with tools like us who nimble, faster, with tools like us who get things launched faster and in more get things launched faster and in more get things launched faster and in more efficient way. efficient way. efficient way. » Yeah, I think of Cosmos, uh the kids » Yeah, I think of Cosmos, uh the kids » Yeah, I think of Cosmos, uh the kids watches. We ordered those. I've I've watches. We ordered those. I've I've watches. We ordered those. I've I've four kids, and three of them now have four kids, and three of them now have four kids, and three of them now have Cosmos watches, and the appeal for us, I Cosmos watches, and the appeal for us, I Cosmos watches, and the appeal for us, I mean, we could have gone to Verizon and mean, we could have gone to Verizon and mean, we could have gone to Verizon and AT&T and got cellular watches, right? AT&T and got cellular watches, right? AT&T and got cellular watches, right? And the price point was about the same, And the price point was about the same, And the price point was about the same, but Cosmos just had way more features of but Cosmos just had way more features of but Cosmos just had way more features of how to regulate it, track them, control how to regulate it, track them, control how to regulate it, track them, control their contacts. Like we just liked their contacts. Like we just liked their contacts. Like we just liked the essentially the interface and the essentially the interface and the essentially the interface and the ecosystem. So really their play was, ecosystem. So really their play was, ecosystem. So really their play was, "Hey, these devices for kids, right?" "Hey, these devices for kids, right?" "Hey, these devices for kids, right?" Cosmos marketing was, "We're going to Cosmos marketing was, "We're going to Cosmos marketing was, "We're going to make the best watch that is going to make the best watch that is going to make the best watch that is going to check off all the boxes for parental check off all the boxes for parental check off all the boxes for parental supervision, right?" And then they went supervision, right?" And then they went supervision, right?" And then they went and got a broker or deal with carriers. and got a broker or deal with carriers. and got a broker or deal with carriers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. » Like different times. That makes sense. » Like different times. That makes sense. » Like different times. That makes sense. » Yeah, that's » Yeah, that's » Yeah, that's » Good example is my daughter. She wants » Good example is my daughter. She wants » Good example is my daughter. She wants to be on my plan. And she's starting to be on my plan. And she's starting to be on my plan. And she's starting college. I was like, "I college. I was like, "I college. I was like, "I Sanna, my daughter's name is Sanna, you Sanna, my daughter's name is Sanna, you Sanna, my daughter's name is Sanna, you need to go get your own plan." She's need to go get your own plan." She's need to go get your own plan." She's like, "Which one?" Then she looked the like, "Which one?" Then she looked the like, "Which one?" Then she looked the cheapest, Mint. Or she looked at this cheapest, Mint. Or she looked at this cheapest, Mint. Or she looked at this one, this one. So then they're becoming one, this one. So then they're becoming one, this one. So then they're becoming price sensitive. They're like, "Wait, I price sensitive. They're like, "Wait, I price sensitive. They're like, "Wait, I already have the phone from dad. I can already have the phone from dad. I can already have the phone from dad. I can get a cheaper plan." She's like, "Why do get a cheaper plan." She's like, "Why do get a cheaper plan." She's like, "Why do you Do you not love me anymore?" I said, you Do you not love me anymore?" I said, you Do you not love me anymore?" I said, "I do." "I do." "I do." But I'm trying to discipline her. She's But I'm trying to discipline her. She's But I'm trying to discipline her. She's like, "No, you can't do this to me." I like, "No, you can't do this to me." I like, "No, you can't do this to me." I was like, "Okay, then fine. We'll leave was like, "Okay, then fine. We'll leave was like, "Okay, then fine. We'll leave it there." it there." it there." » Yeah. Wow. So So, that's really » Yeah. Wow. So So, that's really » Yeah. Wow. So So, that's really interesting that So, you went from So, interesting that So, you went from So, interesting that So, you went from So, I'm trying to figure out your place I'm trying to figure out your place I'm trying to figure out your place in this market. I think I understand the in this market. I think I understand the in this market. I think I understand the technology part. But, let's say I have a technology part. But, let's say I have a technology part. But, let's say I have a idea like Cosmos idea like Cosmos idea like Cosmos and I'm coming up like we'll use the and I'm coming up like we'll use the and I'm coming up like we'll use the device as an example. Probably not the device as an example. Probably not the device as an example. Probably not the best example, but I'm going to bring a best example, but I'm going to bring a best example, but I'm going to bring a device to market. I need to go find uh device to market. I need to go find uh device to market. I need to go find uh some network providers, uh but then I some network providers, uh but then I some network providers, uh but then I also need billing interface and I need a also need billing interface and I need a also need billing interface and I need a CRM. I need a way to book new customers CRM. I need a way to book new customers CRM. I need a way to book new customers in. Uh where do you fit in that? in. Uh where do you fit in that? in. Uh where do you fit in that? » All of it. So, it once you do that, we » All of it. So, it once you do that, we » All of it. So, it once you do that, we only tell you to sell. only tell you to sell. only tell you to sell. And you do the heavy lifting to us. That And you do the heavy lifting to us. That And you do the heavy lifting to us. That means connecting to the carrier, means connecting to the carrier, means connecting to the carrier, connecting to the network. You need to connecting to the network. You need to connecting to the network. You need to Don't just think of this. You need a Don't just think of this. You need a Don't just think of this. You need a system to ship the devices. So, your system to ship the devices. So, your system to ship the devices. So, your shipper needs to be able to log in and shipper needs to be able to log in and shipper needs to be able to log in and be able to print labels. Now, you need be able to print labels. Now, you need be able to print labels. Now, you need to be able to bill on a month-to-month to be able to bill on a month-to-month to be able to bill on a month-to-month basis. So, there's billing. Then, you basis. So, there's billing. Then, you basis. So, there's billing. Then, you need to say, "Hey, your bill's coming up need to say, "Hey, your bill's coming up need to say, "Hey, your bill's coming up for due and I've charged it." Then, you for due and I've charged it." Then, you for due and I've charged it." Then, you say, "Hey, your device is on the way. say, "Hey, your device is on the way. say, "Hey, your device is on the way. Hey, I have a new promotion. I have a Hey, I have a new promotion. I have a Hey, I have a new promotion. I have a new product that's coming out." So, new product that's coming out." So, new product that's coming out." So, there's notifications. There's there's notifications. There's there's notifications. There's campaigns. And then there is there are campaigns. And then there is there are campaigns. And then there is there are these bells and whistles. And you have a these bells and whistles. And you have a these bells and whistles. And you have a call center who logs in. Like, "Wait, my call center who logs in. Like, "Wait, my call center who logs in. Like, "Wait, my phone stopped working. What happened? phone stopped working. What happened? phone stopped working. What happened? Wait, wait. Send you a replacement. Wait, wait. Send you a replacement. Wait, wait. Send you a replacement. You're under coverage. Yeah, I can see You're under coverage. Yeah, I can see You're under coverage. Yeah, I can see that. I can see which phone do you have that. I can see which phone do you have that. I can see which phone do you have and I can see which plan that you have." and I can see which plan that you have." and I can see which plan that you have." And you do all of that. So, it's it's an And you do all of that. So, it's it's an And you do all of that. So, it's it's an ecosystem. Billing is a part of it. ecosystem. Billing is a part of it. ecosystem. Billing is a part of it. » Dang. That's cool. So, you're a full » Dang. That's cool. So, you're a full » Dang. That's cool. So, you're a full stack provider essentially for any MVNO. stack provider essentially for any MVNO. stack provider essentially for any MVNO. Like if somebody Like if somebody Like if somebody » We not only do MVNOs, but we also do for » We not only do MVNOs, but we also do for » We not only do MVNOs, but we also do for business to businesses. For instance, business to businesses. For instance, business to businesses. For instance, you say, "Wait a second. I know all the you say, "Wait a second. I know all the you say, "Wait a second. I know all the radio stations in the US. radio stations in the US. radio stations in the US. How many there are, I don't know. I know How many there are, I don't know. I know How many there are, I don't know. I know a large company that you would can take a large company that you would can take a large company that you would can take the name of and they have 150,000 the name of and they have 150,000 the name of and they have 150,000 connections. You know what? I can get connections. You know what? I can get connections. You know what? I can get their account and they need all three their account and they need all three their account and they need all three carriers cuz you know in this employee's carriers cuz you know in this employee's carriers cuz you know in this employee's home, T-Mobile works. This employee's home, T-Mobile works. This employee's home, T-Mobile works. This employee's home, AT&T is the strongest and this home, AT&T is the strongest and this home, AT&T is the strongest and this mobile provider, their home for some mobile provider, their home for some mobile provider, their home for some reason in their building in in their reason in their building in in their reason in their building in in their location, Verizon is the best. So, you location, Verizon is the best. So, you location, Verizon is the best. So, you need all three carriers. need all three carriers. need all three carriers. And then I can sell a business to And then I can sell a business to And then I can sell a business to business and I can sell devices. So, we business and I can sell devices. So, we business and I can sell devices. So, we have a B2B platform also which you can have a B2B platform also which you can have a B2B platform also which you can service. Don't just think consumers. service. Don't just think consumers. service. Don't just think consumers. Then we also service fiber companies Then we also service fiber companies Then we also service fiber companies which is our latest product where we which is our latest product where we which is our latest product where we service fiber standalone fiber companies service fiber standalone fiber companies service fiber standalone fiber companies for billing and same exact thing people for billing and same exact thing people for billing and same exact thing people loved our product. They're like, "Can I loved our product. They're like, "Can I loved our product. They're like, "Can I use it for my fiber?" It's like, "Yeah, use it for my fiber?" It's like, "Yeah, use it for my fiber?" It's like, "Yeah, sure. Absolutely." And then these fiber sure. Absolutely." And then these fiber sure. Absolutely." And then these fiber companies who already servicing fiber companies who already servicing fiber companies who already servicing fiber and cable companies who already and cable companies who already and cable companies who already servicing these customers, they said, servicing these customers, they said, servicing these customers, they said, "Hey, can I add more products to the "Hey, can I add more products to the "Hey, can I add more products to the people I'm already selling because people I'm already selling because people I'm already selling because they're buying cellular from somewhere. they're buying cellular from somewhere. they're buying cellular from somewhere. Why they're not buying them from me?" Why they're not buying them from me?" Why they're not buying them from me?" Like, "Yeah, absolutely." So, you make Like, "Yeah, absolutely." So, you make Like, "Yeah, absolutely." So, you make sure they're fiber customer of yours or sure they're fiber customer of yours or sure they're fiber customer of yours or they're cable customer of yours and they're cable customer of yours and they're cable customer of yours and they can add cellular. So, there are many can add cellular. So, there are many can add cellular. So, there are many legs to the business. legs to the business. legs to the business. » Yeah. So, so talk about the » Yeah. So, so talk about the » Yeah. So, so talk about the business-to-business portion if there's business-to-business portion if there's business-to-business portion if there's like if you're agnostic to carriers, I I like if you're agnostic to carriers, I I like if you're agnostic to carriers, I I see the value in that. How are you see the value in that. How are you see the value in that. How are you actually managing that? That sounds like actually managing that? That sounds like actually managing that? That sounds like a nightmare. a nightmare. a nightmare. » Say that one more time, sorry. How do » Say that one more time, sorry. How do » Say that one more time, sorry. How do you » How So, you're talking about how you are » How So, you're talking about how you are » How So, you're talking about how you are agnostic like you'll get any carrier agnostic like you'll get any carrier agnostic like you'll get any carrier they need, right? In they need, right? In they need, right? In the business-to-business for their coverage business-to-business for their coverage business-to-business for their coverage they need, right? Um but how do you they need, right? Um but how do you they need, right? Um but how do you manage that internally? Like does each manage that internally? Like does each manage that internally? Like does each Like are you testing the area? Then you Like are you testing the area? Then you Like are you testing the area? Then you switch the SIM? Like that sounds like a switch the SIM? Like that sounds like a switch the SIM? Like that sounds like a nightmare. nightmare. nightmare. » That's a very good question. » That's a very good question. » That's a very good question. So, there's AI intelligence built into So, there's AI intelligence built into So, there's AI intelligence built into the platform. It can be based upon the platform. It can be based upon the platform. It can be based upon the order type. It can be based upon the order type. It can be based upon the order type. It can be based upon the price point. It can be based upon the price point. It can be based upon the price point. It can be based upon the location and it can be based upon location and it can be based upon location and it can be based upon combination of these factors. combination of these factors. combination of these factors. And it can be be based upon customer And it can be be based upon customer And it can be be based upon customer feedback. So, we know, "Hey, this is a feedback. So, we know, "Hey, this is a feedback. So, we know, "Hey, this is a good this location. I know this coverage good this location. I know this coverage good this location. I know this coverage is already better. We already have this is already better. We already have this is already better. We already have this intelligence that we recommend. intelligence that we recommend. intelligence that we recommend. Then the person can choose Then the person can choose Then the person can choose or it can be based upon a business or it can be based upon a business or it can be based upon a business criteria that 60% of my activations have criteria that 60% of my activations have criteria that 60% of my activations have to go to carrier A and 40% to carrier B to go to carrier A and 40% to carrier B to go to carrier A and 40% to carrier B because that's how my contracts laid because that's how my contracts laid because that's how my contracts laid out. Or 40% out. Or 40% out. Or 40% uh of the carriers of my uh of the carriers of my uh of the carriers of my uh uh uh I want to divide them into this criteria I want to divide them into this criteria I want to divide them into this criteria or this or this or this is my um C-suite. My C-suite should this is my um C-suite. My C-suite should this is my um C-suite. My C-suite should get this plan and this. So, these AI get this plan and this. So, these AI get this plan and this. So, these AI tools that you build in and then of tools that you build in and then of tools that you build in and then of course the course the course the our system takes care of everything. the our system takes care of everything. the our system takes care of everything. Then there's also carrier swap that you Then there's also carrier swap that you Then there's also carrier swap that you can do. can do. can do. We thought this is the best it's not We thought this is the best it's not We thought this is the best it's not working. We can move you from carrier A working. We can move you from carrier A working. We can move you from carrier A to carrier B. to carrier B. to carrier B. » Hm. So, break down the revenue model of » Hm. So, break down the revenue model of » Hm. So, break down the revenue model of your different uh buckets of business, your different uh buckets of business, your different uh buckets of business, right? So, it sounds like you've got a right? So, it sounds like you've got a right? So, it sounds like you've got a couple different buckets couple different buckets couple different buckets uh from the right, CRM to the service to uh from the right, CRM to the service to uh from the right, CRM to the service to the call center, the full stack. Uh how the call center, the full stack. Uh how the call center, the full stack. Uh how does that work? Is that a fee model per does that work? Is that a fee model per does that work? Is that a fee model per line? Is it also subscription for line? Is it also subscription for line? Is it also subscription for software per user? software per user? software per user? » It is a SaaS based model, which means we » It is a SaaS based model, which means we » It is a SaaS based model, which means we primarily charge on if our customers are primarily charge on if our customers are primarily charge on if our customers are successful, we are successful. That successful, we are successful. That successful, we are successful. That means we need to work hard to make sure means we need to work hard to make sure means we need to work hard to make sure our customers are successful. our customers are successful. our customers are successful. And as we do that And as we do that And as we do that um um you know, we we incentivize in um um you know, we we incentivize in um um you know, we we incentivize in many which ways many which ways many which ways that they can sell the most and uh we that they can sell the most and uh we that they can sell the most and uh we give them the lightest touch approach uh give them the lightest touch approach uh give them the lightest touch approach uh on a per subscriber model in most cases. on a per subscriber model in most cases. on a per subscriber model in most cases. » Hm. » Hm. » Hm. You you're international, so break down You you're international, so break down You you're international, so break down your customer base for me. Are you guys your customer base for me. Are you guys your customer base for me. Are you guys providing services for providing services for providing services for uh multiple countries, just the US? uh multiple countries, just the US? uh multiple countries, just the US? » US is our biggest market. Majority of » US is our biggest market. Majority of » US is our biggest market. Majority of our US is the main market. The our US is the main market. The our US is the main market. The international is fairly minuscule and a international is fairly minuscule and a international is fairly minuscule and a very specialized portion of our very specialized portion of our very specialized portion of our business, which is, you know, big business, which is, you know, big business, which is, you know, big analytics to some telecom analytics to analytics to some telecom analytics to analytics to some telecom analytics to some countries, really. But our biggest some countries, really. But our biggest some countries, really. But our biggest is is is is um is um is um Our biggest is the US market. Our biggest is the US market. Our biggest is the US market. » Okay. And then your employees, are they » Okay. And then your employees, are they » Okay. And then your employees, are they international? I saw you had like 500 international? I saw you had like 500 international? I saw you had like 500 employees. I don't know if that's employees. I don't know if that's employees. I don't know if that's correct. correct. correct. » A little bit less, but » A little bit less, but » A little bit less, but » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » close to that number. So we've got a » close to that number. So we've got a » close to that number. So we've got a fairly large team in the US, and we have fairly large team in the US, and we have fairly large team in the US, and we have a team in India as well. And then we've a team in India as well. And then we've a team in India as well. And then we've got So you've got offices and got So you've got offices and got So you've got offices and a lot of corporate people who work in a lot of corporate people who work in a lot of corporate people who work in our office on the 41st Street. And then our office on the 41st Street. And then our office on the 41st Street. And then you got people in Kentucky, we've got you got people in Kentucky, we've got you got people in Kentucky, we've got people in Atlanta, in San Francisco, in people in Atlanta, in San Francisco, in people in Atlanta, in San Francisco, in Dallas, you've got people You can name a Dallas, you've got people You can name a Dallas, you've got people You can name a lot of cities. In Kansas, too, actually. lot of cities. In Kansas, too, actually. lot of cities. In Kansas, too, actually. In Kansas City. In Kansas City. In Kansas City. » Yeah, where at it in Kansas City? » Yeah, where at it in Kansas City? » Yeah, where at it in Kansas City? » Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very Kansas Oh, » Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very Kansas Oh, » Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very Kansas Oh, Oakland, close to Oakland Park. Oakland, close to Oakland Park. Oakland, close to Oakland Park. » Okay. Great. Yeah, that's awesome. So » Okay. Great. Yeah, that's awesome. So » Okay. Great. Yeah, that's awesome. So are all your employees pretty much are all your employees pretty much are all your employees pretty much remote, and then some are in office remote, and then some are in office remote, and then some are in office space? space? space? » Um people who are closer to New York, » Um people who are closer to New York, » Um people who are closer to New York, we'd like them to come to office. we'd like them to come to office. we'd like them to come to office. » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » And » And » And as many can work remote. You know, to as many can work remote. You know, to as many can work remote. You know, to me, when I started my work, me, when I started my work, me, when I started my work, I love computers. I love computers. I love computers. You know why? Cuz computers, either the You know why? Cuz computers, either the You know why? Cuz computers, either the code works or it doesn't. It doesn't code works or it doesn't. It doesn't code works or it doesn't. It doesn't have a good day or a bad day. It doesn't have a good day or a bad day. It doesn't have a good day or a bad day. It doesn't have a good day or a bad day. It doesn't have a good day or a bad day. It doesn't have a good day or a bad day. It doesn't have a religion, it doesn't have a have a religion, it doesn't have a have a religion, it doesn't have a color. color. color. Either it works or it doesn't. It Either it works or it doesn't. It Either it works or it doesn't. It doesn't have excuses. doesn't have excuses. doesn't have excuses. » Oh, yeah. » Oh, yeah. » Oh, yeah. » When we when we get people, we want the » When we when we get people, we want the » When we when we get people, we want the best people which can fit that. And to best people which can fit that. And to best people which can fit that. And to us, we're not a we're not coin-operated us, we're not a we're not coin-operated us, we're not a we're not coin-operated shop. We we're talent-operated shop. shop. We we're talent-operated shop. shop. We we're talent-operated shop. » Hm. » Hm. » Hm. » And you have to go where the best talent » And you have to go where the best talent » And you have to go where the best talent is. is. is. And in that talent, you have to go where And in that talent, you have to go where And in that talent, you have to go where you say, "Hey, I want the best of the you say, "Hey, I want the best of the you say, "Hey, I want the best of the best talent and I will work with you." best talent and I will work with you." best talent and I will work with you." Um we have a policy in our company, we Um we have a policy in our company, we Um we have a policy in our company, we don't we don't ask you literally, don't we don't ask you literally, don't we don't ask you literally, "What time do you want to come and what "What time do you want to come and what "What time do you want to come and what time do you want to go?" You make your time do you want to go?" You make your time do you want to go?" You make your own hours. own hours. own hours. We ask you, are you doing the best for We ask you, are you doing the best for We ask you, are you doing the best for client success? If yes, and you have client success? If yes, and you have client success? If yes, and you have something that you want to you just feel something that you want to you just feel something that you want to you just feel like taking a break for an hour, go like taking a break for an hour, go like taking a break for an hour, go ahead and do that. ahead and do that. ahead and do that. » Mhm, that's awesome. Yeah, building a » Mhm, that's awesome. Yeah, building a » Mhm, that's awesome. Yeah, building a » something going on with your kids » something going on with your kids » something going on with your kids school, go ahead and do that. Why not? school, go ahead and do that. Why not? school, go ahead and do that. Why not? Humans first. Humans first. Humans first. » Good for you. » Good for you. » Good for you. Uh yeah, what's it like building a Uh yeah, what's it like building a Uh yeah, what's it like building a culture with a lot of remote staff? Uh culture with a lot of remote staff? Uh culture with a lot of remote staff? Uh do you go to India often to visit that do you go to India often to visit that do you go to India often to visit that team? Or do you have someone that's team? Or do you have someone that's team? Or do you have someone that's » because my parents were there, but um » because my parents were there, but um » because my parents were there, but um only my mom's there, so I try and go only my mom's there, so I try and go only my mom's there, so I try and go there and sometimes when I go I don't there and sometimes when I go I don't there and sometimes when I go I don't even go to my work. So, it's only even go to my work. So, it's only even go to my work. So, it's only visiting my mother. Uh but uh you know, visiting my mother. Uh but uh you know, visiting my mother. Uh but uh you know, our teams are uh our teams are uh our teams are uh it's not So, we have another culture it's not So, we have another culture it's not So, we have another culture actually, which is kind of unique. You actually, which is kind of unique. You actually, which is kind of unique. You don't work for me, so they don't report don't work for me, so they don't report don't work for me, so they don't report to me, they report to our company. If to me, they report to our company. If to me, they report to our company. If our organization works well, we work our organization works well, we work our organization works well, we work well. And you know, I as um as I studied well. And you know, I as um as I studied well. And you know, I as um as I studied accounting and one of the first things accounting and one of the first things accounting and one of the first things that I studied in accounting, they teach that I studied in accounting, they teach that I studied in accounting, they teach you as a part of law is case called you as a part of law is case called you as a part of law is case called Solomon versus Solomon. So, this person Solomon versus Solomon. So, this person Solomon versus Solomon. So, this person in UK in 1800s, what he decided to do is in UK in 1800s, what he decided to do is in UK in 1800s, what he decided to do is made a company and uh um made a company and uh um made a company and uh um Solomon and Solomon and he gives him Solomon and Solomon and he gives him Solomon and Solomon and he gives him debentures out and um then this and the debentures out and um then this and the debentures out and um then this and the company went bankrupt and they sued Mr. company went bankrupt and they sued Mr. company went bankrupt and they sued Mr. Solomon and he said, "Well, you it's the Solomon and he said, "Well, you it's the Solomon and he said, "Well, you it's the company that went bankrupt, not me." And company that went bankrupt, not me." And company that went bankrupt, not me." And that's the first case law that's the first case law that's the first case law that distributed company as an artificial distributed company as an artificial distributed company as an artificial person. person. person. So, I actually hold that very much in my So, I actually hold that very much in my So, I actually hold that very much in my ethos and say, "You we all work for the ethos and say, "You we all work for the ethos and say, "You we all work for the company including myself." company including myself." company including myself." Including our remote employees. So, we Including our remote employees. So, we Including our remote employees. So, we don't care whether you're remote or not. don't care whether you're remote or not. don't care whether you're remote or not. Our culture and everything remains the Our culture and everything remains the Our culture and everything remains the same. same. same. » Yeah, that's really good. Uh were you » Yeah, that's really good. Uh were you » Yeah, that's really good. Uh were you born in India? or or yeah? born in India? or or yeah? born in India? or or yeah? » Yes, of course. I was born in India. » Yes, of course. I was born in India. » Yes, of course. I was born in India. » Yeah, so talk about I I'm really curious » Yeah, so talk about I I'm really curious » Yeah, so talk about I I'm really curious being an immigrant man, you've built being an immigrant man, you've built being an immigrant man, you've built something amazing. Uh, what was something amazing. Uh, what was something amazing. Uh, what was that experience like? Um, did you go to that experience like? Um, did you go to that experience like? Um, did you go to college stateside or in India? college stateside or in India? college stateside or in India? » In India. I actually did my college in » In India. I actually did my college in » In India. I actually did my college in India, then I moved 2 years in Seattle, India, then I moved 2 years in Seattle, India, then I moved 2 years in Seattle, then I moved back, and then I moved to then I moved back, and then I moved to then I moved back, and then I moved to New York. So, um, a lot of it was family New York. So, um, a lot of it was family New York. So, um, a lot of it was family driven, driven, driven, uh, you know, and it's funny as you say uh, you know, and it's funny as you say uh, you know, and it's funny as you say that I find it quite universal. Parents that I find it quite universal. Parents that I find it quite universal. Parents and their emotional background can and their emotional background can and their emotional background can follow you. So, it followed for quite a follow you. So, it followed for quite a follow you. So, it followed for quite a bit where we have traveled a lot. bit where we have traveled a lot. bit where we have traveled a lot. Um, so, uh, now, um, what I want to make Um, so, uh, now, um, what I want to make Um, so, uh, now, um, what I want to make sure I answer a question. So, I just Can sure I answer a question. So, I just Can sure I answer a question. So, I just Can you remind me of the question? you remind me of the question? you remind me of the question? » Yeah, yeah, just I was curious what a » Yeah, yeah, just I was curious what a » Yeah, yeah, just I was curious what a awesome story of being an immigrant and awesome story of being an immigrant and awesome story of being an immigrant and then building a almost 500-person then building a almost 500-person then building a almost 500-person company, CEO of Toggl 5 in a complicated company, CEO of Toggl 5 in a complicated company, CEO of Toggl 5 in a complicated industry. industry. industry. Um, just yeah, what does that mean to Um, just yeah, what does that mean to Um, just yeah, what does that mean to you? What was that experience like? And you? What was that experience like? And you? What was that experience like? And is it like a thing of the past now? You is it like a thing of the past now? You is it like a thing of the past now? You just it's doesn't even just it's doesn't even just it's doesn't even cross your mind anymore? What what was cross your mind anymore? What what was cross your mind anymore? What what was that experience like? that experience like? that experience like? » Uh, to me the experience so it's a lot » Uh, to me the experience so it's a lot » Uh, to me the experience so it's a lot of grace. So, I'm very lucky to be able of grace. So, I'm very lucky to be able of grace. So, I'm very lucky to be able to be where I am and where we are. to be where I am and where we are. to be where I am and where we are. Um, and second question is, Um, and second question is, Um, and second question is, um, being an immigrant what's a Never um, being an immigrant what's a Never um, being an immigrant what's a Never thought of it like that. Yeah. Now, thought of it like that. Yeah. Now, thought of it like that. Yeah. Now, people didn't think of me like an people didn't think of me like an people didn't think of me like an immigrant and because like I said, um, immigrant and because like I said, um, immigrant and because like I said, um, you know, the computer didn't care I was you know, the computer didn't care I was you know, the computer didn't care I was an immigrant. an immigrant. an immigrant. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » So, for us it was it was work a lot of » So, for us it was it was work a lot of » So, for us it was it was work a lot of hard work, a lot of late nights, and a hard work, a lot of late nights, and a hard work, a lot of late nights, and a lot of people that we lot of people that we lot of people that we that have come a long way where we are. that have come a long way where we are. that have come a long way where we are. So, it's been very fulfilling. So, it's been very fulfilling. So, it's been very fulfilling. I don't think I've faced any I don't think I've faced any I don't think I've faced any discrimination anywhere uh, discrimination anywhere uh, discrimination anywhere uh, because at the end of the day the because at the end of the day the because at the end of the day the product has to work. Yeah. See, do you product has to work. Yeah. See, do you product has to work. Yeah. See, do you care whether your cell phone um, care whether your cell phone um, care whether your cell phone um, I ask the people, um, do you really care I ask the people, um, do you really care I ask the people, um, do you really care um, I mean, um, I mean, um, I mean, we all love our iPhones and I have one, we all love our iPhones and I have one, we all love our iPhones and I have one, too. But, too. But, too. But, you know, when you're making a call, you know, when you're making a call, you know, when you're making a call, you want the voice to be clear. At that want the voice to be clear. At that want the voice to be clear. At that point of time, do you even remember the point of time, do you even remember the point of time, do you even remember the network? Do you even remember what's network? Do you even remember what's network? Do you even remember what's behind it, unless it's not working? behind it, unless it's not working? behind it, unless it's not working? » Yeah, exactly. Such a good answer. » Yeah, exactly. Such a good answer. » Yeah, exactly. Such a good answer. » But, from an immigrant perspective, no. » But, from an immigrant perspective, no. » But, from an immigrant perspective, no. I've had people of I've had people of I've had people of amazing character, amazing character, amazing character, just beautiful relationships all across just beautiful relationships all across just beautiful relationships all across the globe. the globe. the globe. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » People who have been And that's been the » People who have been And that's been the » People who have been And that's been the biggest wealth that I've earned, that biggest wealth that I've earned, that biggest wealth that I've earned, that money can't buy, that such great money can't buy, that such great money can't buy, that such great people we support. And one more people we support. And one more people we support. And one more ethos of a company, I'm sorry, I'm ethos of a company, I'm sorry, I'm ethos of a company, I'm sorry, I'm saying so many of them. We are saying so many of them. We are saying so many of them. We are titleless. I don't care. You're CEO or titleless. I don't care. You're CEO or titleless. I don't care. You're CEO or you're CFO, you want to be the CEO, be you're CFO, you want to be the CEO, be you're CFO, you want to be the CEO, be the CEO. I don't care. But, this needs the CEO. I don't care. But, this needs the CEO. I don't care. But, this needs to get done. Let's get that done. Let's to get done. Let's get that done. Let's to get done. Let's get that done. Let's be the best version of ourselves. be the best version of ourselves. be the best version of ourselves. » Yeah, that's beautiful. I I think this » Yeah, that's beautiful. I I think this » Yeah, that's beautiful. I I think this global economy, you know, is with global economy, you know, is with global economy, you know, is with technology has changed all of that. And technology has changed all of that. And technology has changed all of that. And it's not that it's it's not that it's it's not that it's the same for everyone, but that's an the same for everyone, but that's an the same for everyone, but that's an awesome perspective. And yeah, thanks awesome perspective. And yeah, thanks awesome perspective. And yeah, thanks for answering that. Talk about I saw you for answering that. Talk about I saw you for answering that. Talk about I saw you went to Harvard leadership. went to Harvard leadership. went to Harvard leadership. And I'm I met a Brigadier General years And I'm I met a Brigadier General years And I'm I met a Brigadier General years ago that went through that same ago that went through that same ago that went through that same leadership training that you went leadership training that you went leadership training that you went through. And it sounded fascinating. through. And it sounded fascinating. through. And it sounded fascinating. Talk about that a little bit. Where How Talk about that a little bit. Where How Talk about that a little bit. Where How did that come about? Why did you do it? did that come about? Why did you do it? did that come about? Why did you do it? What was the takeaway? What was the takeaway? What was the takeaway? » I did that just out of, you know, you » I did that just out of, you know, you » I did that just out of, you know, you have to continuously learn. have to continuously learn. have to continuously learn. I'm being a leader, so you have to I'm being a leader, so you have to I'm being a leader, so you have to challenge yourself because you're you're challenge yourself because you're you're challenge yourself because you're you're your own glass ceiling at times. You your own glass ceiling at times. You your own glass ceiling at times. You have to kind of grow. But, that have to kind of grow. But, that have to kind of grow. But, that experience taught me one thing. There's experience taught me one thing. There's experience taught me one thing. There's people who'd come from lot larger people who'd come from lot larger people who'd come from lot larger companies. I remember they asked us a companies. I remember they asked us a companies. I remember they asked us a question. They made us do an exercise. question. They made us do an exercise. question. They made us do an exercise. That if you are That if you are That if you are if you're in a cold place and you're if you're in a cold place and you're if you're in a cold place and you're surrounded, what do you do? And I surrounded, what do you do? And I surrounded, what do you do? And I thought I saw on a Discovery program, thought I saw on a Discovery program, thought I saw on a Discovery program, you just sit there, make yourself warm, you just sit there, make yourself warm, you just sit there, make yourself warm, and don't move. So, one guy got up, and don't move. So, one guy got up, and don't move. So, one guy got up, and he's like the leader and he's like, "No, he's like the leader and he's like, "No, he's like the leader and he's like, "No, I'll tell you I'm going to do this." And I'll tell you I'm going to do this." And I'll tell you I'm going to do this." And I was like, "Guys, I think you can do I was like, "Guys, I think you can do I was like, "Guys, I think you can do this." And then this another guy got up, this." And then this another guy got up, this." And then this another guy got up, "No, this is what it should be done." "No, this is what it should be done." "No, this is what it should be done." Like, "Okay, I'm you know, this is what Like, "Okay, I'm you know, this is what Like, "Okay, I'm you know, this is what I think you should do. I'm not going to I think you should do. I'm not going to I think you should do. I'm not going to force you. This is what I think you force you. This is what I think you force you. This is what I think you should do." And my answer turned out should do." And my answer turned out should do." And my answer turned out right. And in that course then right. And in that course then right. And in that course then everybody's looking at me like, you everybody's looking at me like, you everybody's looking at me like, you know, I was like so that taught me know, I was like so that taught me know, I was like so that taught me that taught me that taught me that taught me that what people sometimes perceive or sorry what people sometimes perceive or sorry what people sometimes perceive or sorry about that. What people sometimes about that. What people sometimes about that. What people sometimes perceive or tell people perceive or tell people perceive or tell people that what they are that what they are that what they are Let's I apologize some days. But anyway, Let's I apologize some days. But anyway, Let's I apologize some days. But anyway, um um um I just messaged the person. I just messaged the person. I just messaged the person. » You're good. All good, man. » You're good. All good, man. » You're good. All good, man. » 5 minutes. 5 minutes, yeah. 5 minutes, yeah. And the person is not stupid. And the person is not stupid. And the person is not stupid. » You're like, » You're like, » You're like, "Leave me alone." You're good. Yeah. You're good. Yeah. » Pause. Pause it. » Pause. Pause it. » Pause. Pause it. » You're good. » You're good. » You're good. » Hey, I apologize. I I hope you can cut » Hey, I apologize. I I hope you can cut » Hey, I apologize. I I hope you can cut that out. that out. that out. » You're good. No, you're good. Yeah, » You're good. No, you're good. Yeah, » You're good. No, you're good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that'll be easy mark. yeah. Yeah, that'll be easy mark. yeah. Yeah, that'll be easy mark. No, you're good. Uh yeah, so we were No, you're good. Uh yeah, so we were No, you're good. Uh yeah, so we were just talking about the Harvard just talking about the Harvard just talking about the Harvard leadership. leadership. leadership. » three times and they're like, "Okay, » three times and they're like, "Okay, » three times and they're like, "Okay, there's something burning." He's like, there's something burning." He's like, there's something burning." He's like, "Oh, you didn't call me back." "Oh, you didn't call me back." "Oh, you didn't call me back." Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen, I'm going to call. I'm serious. Listen, I'm going to call. I'm serious. Listen, I'm going to call. I'm serious. I was like, "Something happened? Are you I was like, "Something happened? Are you I was like, "Something happened? Are you in an accident? What happened? in an accident? What happened? in an accident? What happened? Everything okay?" Everything okay?" Everything okay?" » Everybody's okay, though? » Everybody's okay, though? » Everybody's okay, though? » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Okay, good. » Okay, good. » Okay, good. » Hey, the marketing tags this person » Hey, the marketing tags this person » Hey, the marketing tags this person didn't tell me. didn't tell me. didn't tell me. » Oh my gosh. Yeah. » Oh my gosh. Yeah. » Oh my gosh. Yeah. » I was like, "Listen, I would have When » I was like, "Listen, I would have When » I was like, "Listen, I would have When you call, I call you back. I promise you call, I call you back. I promise you call, I call you back. I promise I'll get it done." I'll get it done." I'll get it done." » I'm on this massive platform podcast, » I'm on this massive platform podcast, » I'm on this massive platform podcast, you know, that like 50 people listen to. you know, that like 50 people listen to. you know, that like 50 people listen to. » Oh my » Oh my » Oh my » You need to leave me alone. » You need to leave me alone. » You need to leave me alone. » That's awesome. » That's awesome. » That's awesome. Um Um Um on the on the Harvard thing again, how on the on the Harvard thing again, how on the on the Harvard thing again, how does that work? How did how did you get does that work? How did how did you get does that work? How did how did you get into that program? What did that process into that program? What did that process into that program? What did that process look like? look like? look like? » thought when I got out I realized oh my » thought when I got out I realized oh my » thought when I got out I realized oh my god, I realized you know what? I I hate god, I realized you know what? I I hate god, I realized you know what? I I hate I don't like to use I'm better than I don't like to use I'm better than I don't like to use I'm better than anybody, but I I like to use the word anybody, but I I like to use the word anybody, but I I like to use the word that hey, I I um I was what's the right that hey, I I um I was what's the right that hey, I I um I was what's the right word? word? word? Um Um Um I I I I outperformed a lot of them and a lot I outperformed a lot of them and a lot I outperformed a lot of them and a lot of them had better personas than me. of them had better personas than me. of them had better personas than me. Mhm. So, a lot of better personas than Mhm. So, a lot of better personas than Mhm. So, a lot of better personas than me. I'm like mhm, that's interesting. me. I'm like mhm, that's interesting. me. I'm like mhm, that's interesting. And then when you realize you went to And then when you realize you went to And then when you realize you went to larger companies you realize hey man, we larger companies you realize hey man, we larger companies you realize hey man, we do a lot of work, but we're very do a lot of work, but we're very do a lot of work, but we're very understated. You remained understated. You remained understated. You remained understated for a very long time. You're changing a for a very long time. You're changing a for a very long time. You're changing a little bit of that cuz you can have the little bit of that cuz you can have the little bit of that cuz you can have the best gemstone in the world, but if you best gemstone in the world, but if you best gemstone in the world, but if you don't show it around, keep it in your don't show it around, keep it in your don't show it around, keep it in your safe, it's no good. Yeah. That's good. safe, it's no good. Yeah. That's good. safe, it's no good. Yeah. That's good. Um I I also found researching you, Um I I also found researching you, Um I I also found researching you, you're working on building an AI revenue you're working on building an AI revenue you're working on building an AI revenue monetization engine. Uh saw that in a monetization engine. Uh saw that in a monetization engine. Uh saw that in a couple places. Can you talk about that couple places. Can you talk about that couple places. Can you talk about that and kind of your thesis on that? and kind of your thesis on that? and kind of your thesis on that? » That's our latest and interesting » That's our latest and interesting » That's our latest and interesting product and um that um is you've got an product and um that um is you've got an product and um that um is you've got an AI engine, but how do you bill for it? AI engine, but how do you bill for it? AI engine, but how do you bill for it? Mhm. And we went to SAS turn we showed Mhm. And we went to SAS turn we showed Mhm. And we went to SAS turn we showed the product down and somebody send us a the product down and somebody send us a the product down and somebody send us a proposal and they send up an invoice and proposal and they send up an invoice and proposal and they send up an invoice and my product manager for that called him my product manager for that called him my product manager for that called him out and he said you really need a out and he said you really need a out and he said you really need a platform. Look, your invoice is wrong. platform. Look, your invoice is wrong. platform. Look, your invoice is wrong. You said 12 months, but you're charging You said 12 months, but you're charging You said 12 months, but you're charging for 13. for 13. for 13. And he's like and he's like you really And he's like and he's like you really And he's like and he's like you really need a platform for B2C. So, we realized need a platform for B2C. So, we realized need a platform for B2C. So, we realized because in telecom you're counting a lot because in telecom you're counting a lot because in telecom you're counting a lot of CDRs, you're counting a lot of of CDRs, you're counting a lot of of CDRs, you're counting a lot of things. So, we took that technology and things. So, we took that technology and things. So, we took that technology and said how can we count tokens for you? said how can we count tokens for you? said how can we count tokens for you? Can we count different mechanism for you Can we count different mechanism for you Can we count different mechanism for you in a B2B » rate? » rate? » Oh my god, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. CDRs » Oh my god, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. CDRs » Oh my god, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. CDRs are call duration records. So, we take are call duration records. So, we take are call duration records. So, we take those CDRs, we ingest them, we take those CDRs, we ingest them, we take those CDRs, we ingest them, we take these call duration records, millions of these call duration records, millions of these call duration records, millions of them, we ingest them, we ingest them, we ingest them and we we can trade them, charge them. and we we can trade them, charge them. and we we can trade them, charge them. And so we we do all of that. So I think And so we we do all of that. So I think And so we we do all of that. So I think if you know, if you know, if you know, so we took the same technology and said so we took the same technology and said so we took the same technology and said can we rate your tokens and give you a can we rate your tokens and give you a can we rate your tokens and give you a such a unique mechanism of charging and such a unique mechanism of charging and such a unique mechanism of charging and people love that. So people love that. So people love that. So » So so is this an AI voice AI concept and » So so is this an AI voice AI concept and » So so is this an AI voice AI concept and then how do you bill for it in then how do you bill for it in then how do you bill for it in the telecom space? What exactly is the AI? telecom space? What exactly is the AI? telecom space? What exactly is the AI? » So there's AI within our platform but » So there's AI within our platform but » So there's AI within our platform but this is billing for AI companies. this is billing for AI companies. this is billing for AI companies. » Oh, got you. » Oh, got you. » Oh, got you. » This is billing for AI companies for » This is billing for AI companies for » This is billing for AI companies for companies like you for killer growth and companies like you for killer growth and companies like you for killer growth and killer growth has five people in one killer growth has five people in one killer growth has five people in one plan which is a discounted plan because plan which is a discounted plan because plan which is a discounted plan because they're going to put you on advertise in they're going to put you on advertise in they're going to put you on advertise in your podcast every day. They need a your podcast every day. They need a your podcast every day. They need a custom quote and they can have a quote custom quote and they can have a quote custom quote and they can have a quote for every different company, charge the for every different company, charge the for every different company, charge the card or charge auto charge or top up card or charge auto charge or top up card or charge auto charge or top up every time. It's like telecom. We've every time. It's like telecom. We've every time. It's like telecom. We've been doing this for the last 20 years in been doing this for the last 20 years in been doing this for the last 20 years in telecom. telecom. telecom. » Yeah, interesting. Yeah. » Yeah, interesting. Yeah. » Yeah, interesting. Yeah. How much has AI changed How much has AI changed How much has AI changed this your whole industry? this your whole industry? this your whole industry? How do you see it infiltrate? How do you see it infiltrate? How do you see it infiltrate? What specifically? What specifically? What specifically? » Beautiful beautiful tools. Everything we » Beautiful beautiful tools. Everything we » Beautiful beautiful tools. Everything we do, we have AI development tools, we do, we have AI development tools, we do, we have AI development tools, we have AI within our platforms, we have AI have AI within our platforms, we have AI have AI within our platforms, we have AI decision making trees. It's been a game decision making trees. It's been a game decision making trees. It's been a game changer. changer. changer. » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What when did you guys start integrating AI when did you guys start integrating AI when did you guys start integrating AI into your systems? into your systems? into your systems? » Oh, it's literally we really dived into » Oh, it's literally we really dived into » Oh, it's literally we really dived into it last year but before that we were we it last year but before that we were we it last year but before that we were we were we were we were we were dipping our toes into it but dipping our toes into it but dipping our toes into it but last year we went all in and it's been last year we went all in and it's been last year we went all in and it's been beautiful. beautiful. beautiful. It's a game changer. It's a game changer. It's a game changer. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Productivity's up. It's it's amazing » Productivity's up. It's it's amazing » Productivity's up. It's it's amazing what it AI can do. what it AI can do. what it AI can do. » That's awesome. » That's awesome. » That's awesome. What what do you see changing in the What what do you see changing in the What what do you see changing in the next five years five years in your next five years five years in your next five years five years in your industry? I mean there's a lot of industry? I mean there's a lot of industry? I mean there's a lot of players, lot of MVNOs. players, lot of MVNOs. players, lot of MVNOs. What it what's what's current pattern What it what's what's current pattern What it what's what's current pattern you see? I feel like everything's moving you see? I feel like everything's moving you see? I feel like everything's moving so fast right now and you kind of like so fast right now and you kind of like so fast right now and you kind of like obviously to be where you're at, you're obviously to be where you're at, you're obviously to be where you're at, you're good at spotting future concepts. good at spotting future concepts. good at spotting future concepts. » So, within that industry we're seeing » So, within that industry we're seeing » So, within that industry we're seeing different business models that we have. different business models that we have. different business models that we have. Like I said, we've expanded to AI Like I said, we've expanded to AI Like I said, we've expanded to AI billing. So, A we take our platform and billing. So, A we take our platform and billing. So, A we take our platform and we build it horizontally. we build it horizontally. we build it horizontally. Within the platform we build it more Within the platform we build it more Within the platform we build it more vertically and then we of course have vertically and then we of course have vertically and then we of course have platforms are platforms. It has to be platforms are platforms. It has to be platforms are platforms. It has to be the people behind the platforms. the people behind the platforms. the people behind the platforms. So, um you know, uh and what by what I So, um you know, uh and what by what I So, um you know, uh and what by what I mean by that is mean by that is mean by that is um um um when goes down, are you going to when goes down, are you going to when goes down, are you going to answer your client's call and say I owe answer your client's call and say I owe answer your client's call and say I owe up and this is what I'm going to do to up and this is what I'm going to do to up and this is what I'm going to do to make it right at 12:00 in the night? make it right at 12:00 in the night? make it right at 12:00 in the night? Are you going to be the differentiator? Are you going to be the differentiator? Are you going to be the differentiator? And the I think that's that's a as a as And the I think that's that's a as a as And the I think that's that's a as a as a long-term approach. So, um I said like a long-term approach. So, um I said like a long-term approach. So, um I said like I said, there are B2B models that are I said, there are B2B models that are I said, there are B2B models that are coming that are very interesting. The coming that are very interesting. The coming that are very interesting. The B2C differentiators, ease of use, and B2C differentiators, ease of use, and B2C differentiators, ease of use, and has to be seamless. It has to be like has to be seamless. It has to be like has to be seamless. It has to be like that press a button and it'll do the that press a button and it'll do the that press a button and it'll do the magic for you. magic for you. magic for you. » Mhm. Yeah. » Mhm. Yeah. » Mhm. Yeah. And talk about uh like how did you get And talk about uh like how did you get And talk about uh like how did you get clients? I mean, that's a that seems clients? I mean, that's a that seems clients? I mean, that's a that seems like a space that requires a lot of like a space that requires a lot of like a space that requires a lot of trust, trust, trust, right? I mean, you're you're managing right? I mean, you're you're managing right? I mean, you're you're managing some massive projects. Um some massive projects. Um some massive projects. Um how did you get your first couple how did you get your first couple how did you get your first couple clients in this space? clients in this space? clients in this space? » Um I think the first one that we got I » Um I think the first one that we got I » Um I think the first one that we got I explained to you first from them looking explained to you first from them looking explained to you first from them looking at our software and then beyond that at our software and then beyond that at our software and then beyond that people just looked at our product. It people just looked at our product. It people just looked at our product. It was light-years ahead. Yeah and it is was light-years ahead. Yeah and it is was light-years ahead. Yeah and it is uh uh uh um um um it has been running light-years ahead of it has been running light-years ahead of it has been running light-years ahead of our competition and um it is um as long our competition and um it is um as long our competition and um it is um as long as we continuously innovate and do as we continuously innovate and do as we continuously innovate and do nimble and give great value to our nimble and give great value to our nimble and give great value to our customers, I think we've been winning customers, I think we've been winning customers, I think we've been winning the market both by word of mouth, by the market both by word of mouth, by the market both by word of mouth, by people who see the product and like how people who see the product and like how people who see the product and like how and how fast can we get on it. And then and how fast can we get on it. And then and how fast can we get on it. And then when they look, it's been 20 years in when they look, it's been 20 years in when they look, it's been 20 years in the development. Rome wasn't built in a the development. Rome wasn't built in a the development. Rome wasn't built in a day. So, there are other people who are day. So, there are other people who are day. So, there are other people who are in when trying to make their product and in when trying to make their product and in when trying to make their product and putting the wheels on while the plane is putting the wheels on while the plane is putting the wheels on while the plane is flying and putting the wings and change flying and putting the wings and change flying and putting the wings and change you're trying to change the engines. For you're trying to change the engines. For you're trying to change the engines. For us, it's a configuration. Like, okay, us, it's a configuration. Like, okay, us, it's a configuration. Like, okay, yeah, that's how it's done. Like, wow. yeah, that's how it's done. Like, wow. yeah, that's how it's done. Like, wow. » Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Do you Is there » Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Do you Is there » Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Do you Is there like conferences, groups in your sector? like conferences, groups in your sector? like conferences, groups in your sector? I'm just thinking through how you I'm just thinking through how you I'm just thinking through how you network. network. network. » Absolutely. We go to a World Mobile » Absolutely. We go to a World Mobile » Absolutely. We go to a World Mobile Congress, which is a big one. And we Congress, which is a big one. And we Congress, which is a big one. And we love going there. And then you've got love going there. And then you've got love going there. And then you've got the Prepaid Expo, and we've got Channel the Prepaid Expo, and we've got Channel the Prepaid Expo, and we've got Channel Partners, and we've got Partners, and we've got Partners, and we've got MVNO Nation. So, we do a lot of them. MVNO Nation. So, we do a lot of them. MVNO Nation. So, we do a lot of them. And uh, you know, and then we did SaaStr And uh, you know, and then we did SaaStr And uh, you know, and then we did SaaStr last week, which was a the AI last week, which was a the AI last week, which was a the AI conference, where we put our AI product conference, where we put our AI product conference, where we put our AI product out. So, it's a combination all of out. So, it's a combination all of out. So, it's a combination all of those, word of mouth, some advertising. those, word of mouth, some advertising. those, word of mouth, some advertising. I think, you know, people have to I think, you know, people have to I think, you know, people have to believe in the product. And then believe in the product. And then believe in the product. And then your biggest uh, people who promote your biggest uh, people who promote your biggest uh, people who promote your product are its users. product are its users. product are its users. » Yeah, for sure. » Yeah, for sure. » Yeah, for sure. Uh, do Do you have sales people in your Uh, do Do you have sales people in your Uh, do Do you have sales people in your organization uh, that are just organization uh, that are just organization uh, that are just prospecting, or do you mostly just have prospecting, or do you mostly just have prospecting, or do you mostly just have retention-based model? retention-based model? retention-based model? » Mostly inbound right now. We don't have » Mostly inbound right now. We don't have » Mostly inbound right now. We don't have a sales team. a sales team. a sales team. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » We have a smaller sales team, but » We have a smaller sales team, but » We have a smaller sales team, but primarily inbound. primarily inbound. primarily inbound. » Yeah. Yeah, that's great. » Yeah. Yeah, that's great. » Yeah. Yeah, that's great. That's awesome. Well, I I know you're a That's awesome. Well, I I know you're a That's awesome. Well, I I know you're a super busy guy, so I I don't want to super busy guy, so I I don't want to super busy guy, so I I don't want to keep you much longer. Uh, we're past our keep you much longer. Uh, we're past our keep you much longer. Uh, we're past our time we agreed on. Um, but you're a our time we agreed on. Um, but you're a our time we agreed on. Um, but you're a fascinating dude. Uh, I'll be following fascinating dude. Uh, I'll be following fascinating dude. Uh, I'll be following along and um, along and um, along and um, uh, just some of the things you just uh, just some of the things you just uh, just some of the things you just answered I've always wondered, uh, which answered I've always wondered, uh, which answered I've always wondered, uh, which is my favorite part about this podcast is my favorite part about this podcast is my favorite part about this podcast is just getting to talk to people that is just getting to talk to people that is just getting to talk to people that are in industries and spaces that I'm are in industries and spaces that I'm are in industries and spaces that I'm not. And uh, it's just wild how the not. And uh, it's just wild how the not. And uh, it's just wild how the world works. You know, there's there's world works. You know, there's there's world works. You know, there's there's so many types of business opportunities so many types of business opportunities so many types of business opportunities out there and so many spaces. And uh out there and so many spaces. And uh out there and so many spaces. And uh yeah, I never thought I'd be talking to yeah, I never thought I'd be talking to yeah, I never thought I'd be talking to a guy who found a pretty unique space in a guy who found a pretty unique space in a guy who found a pretty unique space in the MVNO space with technology and full the MVNO space with technology and full the MVNO space with technology and full stack. That's so cool. I was going to stack. That's so cool. I was going to stack. That's so cool. I was going to ask Tyler real quick, do you have a ask Tyler real quick, do you have a ask Tyler real quick, do you have a Tyler's more of a technology nerd, do Tyler's more of a technology nerd, do Tyler's more of a technology nerd, do you have a question for him before I let you have a question for him before I let you have a question for him before I let him go? him go? him go? Okay, good. He said I asked all the good Okay, good. He said I asked all the good Okay, good. He said I asked all the good ones. Yes, let's go. ones. Yes, let's go. ones. Yes, let's go. » I kiss you so much, Sam and » I kiss you so much, Sam and » I kiss you so much, Sam and » Yeah, well, give us a takeaway, any » Yeah, well, give us a takeaway, any » Yeah, well, give us a takeaway, any advice. We have a lot of small business advice. We have a lot of small business advice. We have a lot of small business owners, entrepreneurs that listen to owners, entrepreneurs that listen to owners, entrepreneurs that listen to this. Uh just any takeaway, any this. Uh just any takeaway, any this. Uh just any takeaway, any encouragement for anyone out there encouragement for anyone out there encouragement for anyone out there hustling. hustling. hustling. » Um » Um » Um you don't have to be the smartest to you don't have to be the smartest to you don't have to be the smartest to succeed. succeed. succeed. You have to be the you have to work You have to be the you have to work You have to be the you have to work outwork the smartest and outwork we will outwork the smartest and outwork we will outwork the smartest and outwork we will I still do and I still will outwork I still do and I still will outwork I still do and I still will outwork everybody and lead by example. So, don't everybody and lead by example. So, don't everybody and lead by example. So, don't underestimate yourself in the darkest underestimate yourself in the darkest underestimate yourself in the darkest hour when you think everything's going hour when you think everything's going hour when you think everything's going to go down on you, have faith and will to go down on you, have faith and will to go down on you, have faith and will work harder than your problem. And have work harder than your problem. And have work harder than your problem. And have a little bit of faith, treat people a little bit of faith, treat people a little bit of faith, treat people properly and life will find its way. properly and life will find its way. properly and life will find its way. » That's awesome. » That's awesome. » That's awesome. You're awesome, Sandy. Thank you so much You're awesome, Sandy. Thank you so much You're awesome, Sandy. Thank you so much for your time, man. Uh stay in touch. for your time, man. Uh stay in touch. for your time, man. Uh stay in touch. I'll be following along, excited to see I'll be following along, excited to see I'll be following along, excited to see some of those new updates and I'm very some of those new updates and I'm very some of those new updates and I'm very curious about the AI billing thing. curious about the AI billing thing. curious about the AI billing thing. Probably hit you up about that Probably hit you up about that Probably hit you up about that later. I'm curious what that what that later. I'm curious what that what that later. I'm curious what that what that looks like. Um looks like. Um looks like. Um » It's been a pleasure being on your » It's been a pleasure being on your » It's been a pleasure being on your podcast. Good luck and thank you so much podcast. Good luck and thank you so much podcast. Good luck and thank you so much for your appreciating your time and for your appreciating your time and for your appreciating your time and patience with me. patience with me. patience with me. » Yes, no problem. Thank you, Sandy. Have » Yes, no problem. Thank you, Sandy. Have » Yes, no problem. Thank you, Sandy. Have a great day. We'll see you. a great day. We'll see you. a great day. We'll see you. » Bye-bye. ---