500 Homes a Day: Running a $100M Appliance Empire with Tim Hillebrand | Ep 61

How many delivery crews? How many How many delivery crews? How many deliveries are happening a day? And you deliveries are happening a day? And you deliveries are happening a day? And you guys are still in service, correct? guys are still in service, correct? guys are still in service, correct? » We are. » We are. » We are. » Yeah, we run 25 service trucks a day. Uh » Yeah, we run 25 service trucks a day. Uh » Yeah, we run 25 service trucks a day. Uh and then uh we have about 33 to 35 uh and then uh we have about 33 to 35 uh and then uh we have about 33 to 35 uh delivery trucks on the road every day. delivery trucks on the road every day. delivery trucks on the road every day. » Yeah. So, you're 3 400 points of contact » Yeah. So, you're 3 400 points of contact » Yeah. So, you're 3 400 points of contact a day in homes. a day in homes. a day in homes. » Yeah. We're Yeah, we're between 4 and » Yeah. We're Yeah, we're between 4 and » Yeah. We're Yeah, we're between 4 and 500 homes uh a day. The Killer Growth 500 homes uh a day. The Killer Growth 500 homes uh a day. The Killer Growth podcast starts now. What's up guys? Sam McVey here with the What's up guys? Sam McVey here with the Killer Growth podcast and today Killer Growth podcast and today Killer Growth podcast and today I have Tim Hillibbrand uh president of I have Tim Hillibbrand uh president of I have Tim Hillibbrand uh president of Dawn's Appliance in Pittsburgh, Dawn's Appliance in Pittsburgh, Dawn's Appliance in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania. How's it going, Tim? How's it going, Tim? How's it going, Tim? » Good. How are you, Sam? » Good. How are you, Sam? » Good. How are you, Sam? » Good. Appreciate your time. Uh Tim and I » Good. Appreciate your time. Uh Tim and I » Good. Appreciate your time. Uh Tim and I go go back gosh probably 20 I was trying go go back gosh probably 20 I was trying go go back gosh probably 20 I was trying to think of the year. I think it might to think of the year. I think it might to think of the year. I think it might have been 2017 have been 2017 have been 2017 um or 2016, I can't remember, but around um or 2016, I can't remember, but around um or 2016, I can't remember, but around there. Uh met Tim at a buy group. Uh I there. Uh met Tim at a buy group. Uh I there. Uh met Tim at a buy group. Uh I owned an appliance store for 7 years. owned an appliance store for 7 years. owned an appliance store for 7 years. And uh fast forward, Tim was I mean And uh fast forward, Tim was I mean And uh fast forward, Tim was I mean pretty much my mentor in the industry pretty much my mentor in the industry pretty much my mentor in the industry and uh a lot of things I did for my and uh a lot of things I did for my and uh a lot of things I did for my business and I think you know this. I business and I think you know this. I business and I think you know this. I don't know that I've really said this to don't know that I've really said this to don't know that I've really said this to you directly. Uh but a lot of what still you directly. Uh but a lot of what still you directly. Uh but a lot of what still happens at Charlie's Appliance was from happens at Charlie's Appliance was from happens at Charlie's Appliance was from your influence uh for the better. So uh your influence uh for the better. So uh your influence uh for the better. So uh really » I was going to say hopefully it uh » I was going to say hopefully it uh » I was going to say hopefully it uh worked out. worked out. worked out. » It did. It did. You gotta give yourself » It did. It did. You gotta give yourself » It did. It did. You gotta give yourself some credit though because you're a some credit though because you're a some credit though because you're a pretty sharp guy. pretty sharp guy. pretty sharp guy. » I appreciate that. Uh I was just telling » I appreciate that. Uh I was just telling » I appreciate that. Uh I was just telling uh our guest we had on right before uh our guest we had on right before uh our guest we had on right before this. Uh I was telling him about that this. Uh I was telling him about that this. Uh I was telling him about that time you flew me out and put me up in a time you flew me out and put me up in a time you flew me out and put me up in a hotel. Who was a speaker you brought in hotel. Who was a speaker you brought in hotel. Who was a speaker you brought in that had the pool sales. Uh that had the pool sales. Uh that had the pool sales. Uh » Marcus Sheridan. » Marcus Sheridan. » Marcus Sheridan. » Yes. Marcus Sheridan. That was a great » Yes. Marcus Sheridan. That was a great » Yes. Marcus Sheridan. That was a great that was such a kind thing. I've I've that was such a kind thing. I've I've that was such a kind thing. I've I've told multiple people that. I'm like get told multiple people that. I'm like get told multiple people that. I'm like get a mentor that says, "Hey, I'm going get a mentor that says, "Hey, I'm going get a mentor that says, "Hey, I'm going to fly you out and put you up in a to fly you out and put you up in a to fly you out and put you up in a hotel. you need to come hear this guy hotel. you need to come hear this guy hotel. you need to come hear this guy talk and great talk and I've followed talk and great talk and I've followed talk and great talk and I've followed him ever since on LinkedIn um Sheridan him ever since on LinkedIn um Sheridan him ever since on LinkedIn um Sheridan he's been putting out a lot of really he's been putting out a lot of really he's been putting out a lot of really good AI content actually the last six good AI content actually the last six good AI content actually the last six months [clears throat] he has months [clears throat] he has months [clears throat] he has » um but that's great okay well we we'll » um but that's great okay well we we'll » um but that's great okay well we we'll start real easy I just want to hear uh start real easy I just want to hear uh start real easy I just want to hear uh your entrepreneurial journey uh we can your entrepreneurial journey uh we can your entrepreneurial journey uh we can just start there that led you to the just start there that led you to the just start there that led you to the moment you're at today moment you're at today moment you're at today » yeah sure » yeah sure » yeah sure uh I when I graduated from college uh my uh I when I graduated from college uh my uh I when I graduated from college uh my dad started Don's appliances 197 71. Uh, dad started Don's appliances 197 71. Uh, dad started Don's appliances 197 71. Uh, fast forward 1988, I really had never fast forward 1988, I really had never fast forward 1988, I really had never worked in the business. I had worked in the business. I had worked in the business. I had worked outside the business. Uh, through high outside the business. Uh, through high outside the business. Uh, through high school, college, I was a apartment school, college, I was a apartment school, college, I was a apartment maintenance man and cut grass. And when maintenance man and cut grass. And when maintenance man and cut grass. And when I graduated, my dad said, "Hey, come I graduated, my dad said, "Hey, come I graduated, my dad said, "Hey, come work for me." And, uh, that was in 1988. work for me." And, uh, that was in 1988. work for me." And, uh, that was in 1988. And started literally, uh, from the And started literally, uh, from the And started literally, uh, from the ground up selling, uh, working a ton of ground up selling, uh, working a ton of ground up selling, uh, working a ton of hours, learning from him. Uh it was kind hours, learning from him. Uh it was kind hours, learning from him. Uh it was kind of funny. He passed away recently and he of funny. He passed away recently and he of funny. He passed away recently and he taught me so much but it wasn't that he taught me so much but it wasn't that he taught me so much but it wasn't that he would sit me down and say you have to do would sit me down and say you have to do would sit me down and say you have to do this. It was more the lessons of just this. It was more the lessons of just this. It was more the lessons of just watching what he did what he didn't do watching what he did what he didn't do watching what he did what he didn't do and uh how he reacted to what I did and uh how he reacted to what I did and uh how he reacted to what I did sometimes. So sometimes. So sometimes. So » uh I great mentor probably more than I » uh I great mentor probably more than I » uh I great mentor probably more than I ever knew. I've I've kind of you know ever knew. I've I've kind of you know ever knew. I've I've kind of you know thought back the last several months on thought back the last several months on thought back the last several months on that. So uh but uh yeah I worked at that. So uh but uh yeah I worked at that. So uh but uh yeah I worked at Don's Appliances. is I started out just Don's Appliances. is I started out just Don's Appliances. is I started out just selling. I did some uh scheduling of selling. I did some uh scheduling of selling. I did some uh scheduling of deliveries and service calls at some deliveries and service calls at some deliveries and service calls at some point. Eventually did the advertising point. Eventually did the advertising point. Eventually did the advertising and the buying of some of the and the buying of some of the and the buying of some of the appliances. appliances. appliances. And in the late 90s, uh I said, "Hey, we And in the late 90s, uh I said, "Hey, we And in the late 90s, uh I said, "Hey, we need to open another store." I have four need to open another store." I have four need to open another store." I have four younger brothers at that point. Three of younger brothers at that point. Three of younger brothers at that point. Three of us were in the business. And I said, us were in the business. And I said, us were in the business. And I said, "Let's open another store." And he was "Let's open another store." And he was "Let's open another store." And he was not interested in that whatsoever. not interested in that whatsoever. not interested in that whatsoever. So, uh I got two of my brothers So, uh I got two of my brothers So, uh I got two of my brothers involved. Uh, and I went and we opened a involved. Uh, and I went and we opened a involved. Uh, and I went and we opened a Hillman appliance which was about 30 mi Hillman appliance which was about 30 mi Hillman appliance which was about 30 mi north of Pittsburgh, way from Dawn's north of Pittsburgh, way from Dawn's north of Pittsburgh, way from Dawn's Appliances. So, we weren't competing at Appliances. So, we weren't competing at Appliances. So, we weren't competing at that time. And the first year I worked that time. And the first year I worked that time. And the first year I worked both businesses. Uh, after the first both businesses. Uh, after the first both businesses. Uh, after the first year, I made the decision, it was year, I made the decision, it was year, I made the decision, it was literally 2 months before I got married, literally 2 months before I got married, literally 2 months before I got married, that I was going to quit Don's Appliance that I was going to quit Don's Appliance that I was going to quit Don's Appliance and work full-time at Hillman Appliance, and work full-time at Hillman Appliance, and work full-time at Hillman Appliance, uh, with a lot of support from my wife uh, with a lot of support from my wife uh, with a lot of support from my wife and father-in-law and my brothers and father-in-law and my brothers and father-in-law and my brothers especially. So uh we went and did that especially. So uh we went and did that especially. So uh we went and did that and uh took Hillman Appliance from and uh took Hillman Appliance from and uh took Hillman Appliance from nothing to a very sizable business and nothing to a very sizable business and nothing to a very sizable business and we merged together with Dons's in the uh we merged together with Dons's in the uh we merged together with Dons's in the uh was 2010 2011. was 2010 2011. was 2010 2011. Uh at that time Dons had three stores so Uh at that time Dons had three stores so Uh at that time Dons had three stores so we were at four and uh over the next 15 we were at four and uh over the next 15 we were at four and uh over the next 15 years took Dons from four stores to 12 years took Dons from four stores to 12 years took Dons from four stores to 12 locations around Pittsburgh and uh locations around Pittsburgh and uh locations around Pittsburgh and uh Morgantown, West Virginia area, Morgantown, West Virginia area, Morgantown, West Virginia area, Pennsylvania. So it's been quite the Pennsylvania. So it's been quite the Pennsylvania. So it's been quite the ride. ride. ride. Yeah, that's crazy. Uh, and then you Yeah, that's crazy. Uh, and then you Yeah, that's crazy. Uh, and then you guys were acquired what year? Um, guys were acquired what year? Um, guys were acquired what year? Um, » so we were acquired in September of 2023 » so we were acquired in September of 2023 » so we were acquired in September of 2023 by at the time Kodiak Building Products by at the time Kodiak Building Products by at the time Kodiak Building Products and uh, you know, we we didn't really and uh, you know, we we didn't really and uh, you know, we we didn't really know what direction we were going to go know what direction we were going to go know what direction we were going to go with the business. I'm the oldest of the with the business. I'm the oldest of the with the business. I'm the oldest of the five of us, 13 years difference between five of us, 13 years difference between five of us, 13 years difference between myself and Nick who is the youngest. and myself and Nick who is the youngest. and myself and Nick who is the youngest. and you know what was the plan if let's say you know what was the plan if let's say you know what was the plan if let's say I was going to retire and Terry was I was going to retire and Terry was I was going to retire and Terry was going to maybe retire in the next few going to maybe retire in the next few going to maybe retire in the next few years what did that look like so we years what did that look like so we years what did that look like so we collectively made the decision to sell collectively made the decision to sell collectively made the decision to sell the business the business the business uh had a few offers uh Kodiak just uh had a few offers uh Kodiak just uh had a few offers uh Kodiak just seemed to make the most sense because it seemed to make the most sense because it seemed to make the most sense because it allowed us to keep the name to keep uh allowed us to keep the name to keep uh allowed us to keep the name to keep uh locally running the business locally running the business locally running the business uh to keep all the employees and kind of uh to keep all the employees and kind of uh to keep all the employees and kind of just keep the culture the way it was uh just keep the culture the way it was uh just keep the culture the way it was uh that at that time was over 50 years. So that at that time was over 50 years. So that at that time was over 50 years. So » that's crazy. So at at that point when » that's crazy. So at at that point when » that's crazy. So at at that point when that acquisition happened, uh you that acquisition happened, uh you that acquisition happened, uh you committed to stay on as president CEO committed to stay on as president CEO committed to stay on as president CEO for » Yeah. So initially it was for a few » Yeah. So initially it was for a few » Yeah. So initially it was for a few years. Uh as the president of Dawn's uh years. Uh as the president of Dawn's uh years. Uh as the president of Dawn's uh all of us stayed for a few years. Nick all of us stayed for a few years. Nick all of us stayed for a few years. Nick and I are the only two left here as of and I are the only two left here as of and I are the only two left here as of today. Uh which is kind of ironic today. Uh which is kind of ironic today. Uh which is kind of ironic because he and I probably I would have because he and I probably I would have because he and I probably I would have thought would have been the first two thought would have been the first two thought would have been the first two out. out. out. » Oh, interesting. uh initially, but » Oh, interesting. uh initially, but » Oh, interesting. uh initially, but » I don't believe that you told me » I don't believe that you told me » I don't believe that you told me some time some years you thought you'd some time some years you thought you'd some time some years you thought you'd be out and I'm like I I have a feeling be out and I'm like I I have a feeling be out and I'm like I I have a feeling I'll talk to him and he'll still be I'll talk to him and he'll still be I'll talk to him and he'll still be there. there. there. » Well, I uh so Kodiak Building Products » Well, I uh so Kodiak Building Products » Well, I uh so Kodiak Building Products uh sold off the appliance group which uh sold off the appliance group which uh sold off the appliance group which they called the Kodiak Interiors Group they called the Kodiak Interiors Group they called the Kodiak Interiors Group last July last July last July » and uh the same PE company owns us but » and uh the same PE company owns us but » and uh the same PE company owns us but they broke it off from the building they broke it off from the building they broke it off from the building products company. So there were four products company. So there were four products company. So there were four businesses, there's now five uh with a businesses, there's now five uh with a businesses, there's now five uh with a lot of uh acquisition in our future lot of uh acquisition in our future lot of uh acquisition in our future hopefully, but uh so we're a standalone hopefully, but uh so we're a standalone hopefully, but uh so we're a standalone business now. Kodiak Building Products business now. Kodiak Building Products business now. Kodiak Building Products got sold to QXO got sold to QXO got sold to QXO uh in March and uh so we're not part of uh in March and uh so we're not part of uh in March and uh so we're not part of that whatsoever and we're on our own and that whatsoever and we're on our own and that whatsoever and we're on our own and looking forward to the future. So looking forward to the future. So looking forward to the future. So » yeah, » yeah, » yeah, » uh I'll be here for at least another » uh I'll be here for at least another » uh I'll be here for at least another four years, I think. So four years, I think. So four years, I think. So » awesome. So, are you rolled up with some » awesome. So, are you rolled up with some » awesome. So, are you rolled up with some other appliance stores or different other appliance stores or different other appliance stores or different categories of interior? categories of interior? categories of interior? » Yeah, so right now it's uh FBS out of » Yeah, so right now it's uh FBS out of » Yeah, so right now it's uh FBS out of Texas, uh Specialty Appliance out of the Texas, uh Specialty Appliance out of the Texas, uh Specialty Appliance out of the Denver area, uh Arizona Home Appliance Denver area, uh Arizona Home Appliance Denver area, uh Arizona Home Appliance out of Scottdale and uh out of Scottdale and uh out of Scottdale and uh oh, Tucson and uh Dard Bod up in oh, Tucson and uh Dard Bod up in oh, Tucson and uh Dard Bod up in Washington State. Washington State. Washington State. » Interesting. » Interesting. » Interesting. » Are the five of us. Yeah, that's there » Are the five of us. Yeah, that's there » Are the five of us. Yeah, that's there was a lot of that happening during uh co was a lot of that happening during uh co was a lot of that happening during uh co » Oh yeah, » Oh yeah, » Oh yeah, » a lot of rolling up. Um man, I have not » a lot of rolling up. Um man, I have not » a lot of rolling up. Um man, I have not heard that ringtone in a long time. I heard that ringtone in a long time. I heard that ringtone in a long time. I didn't know it was still around. didn't know it was still around. didn't know it was still around. » I can't shut it off and it's uh » I can't shut it off and it's uh » I can't shut it off and it's uh I don't know why. I don't know why. I don't know why. » There we go. » There we go. » There we go. » I have a Google phone. I just got back » I have a Google phone. I just got back » I have a Google phone. I just got back from a week vacation over in Europe and from a week vacation over in Europe and from a week vacation over in Europe and » nice. » nice. » nice. » I took the Google phone with me so I » I took the Google phone with me so I » I took the Google phone with me so I didn't have to answer my Don's client's didn't have to answer my Don's client's didn't have to answer my Don's client's phone. So, sorry about that. phone. So, sorry about that. phone. So, sorry about that. » No, you're good. that ringtone took » No, you're good. that ringtone took » No, you're good. that ringtone took me back. Um, so on on the rollup side, me back. Um, so on on the rollup side, me back. Um, so on on the rollup side, are you just isolated to the Dawn's are you just isolated to the Dawn's are you just isolated to the Dawn's Appliance 12 locations? And then there's Appliance 12 locations? And then there's Appliance 12 locations? And then there's » I've done a little bit going around and » I've done a little bit going around and » I've done a little bit going around and talking to some of the businesses that talking to some of the businesses that talking to some of the businesses that are possibly interested in in rolling up are possibly interested in in rolling up are possibly interested in in rolling up with us. Uh, just going through the with us. Uh, just going through the with us. Uh, just going through the family part of the transaction. family part of the transaction. family part of the transaction. Uh, making sure everybody understands Uh, making sure everybody understands Uh, making sure everybody understands once that happens, there does have to be once that happens, there does have to be once that happens, there does have to be a little bit of a shift. We didn't have a little bit of a shift. We didn't have a little bit of a shift. We didn't have titles, the five of us, when we were in titles, the five of us, when we were in titles, the five of us, when we were in uh when it was Dawn's appliances. We uh when it was Dawn's appliances. We uh when it was Dawn's appliances. We just all worked in the business. We all just all worked in the business. We all just all worked in the business. We all had our part of the business that we had our part of the business that we had our part of the business that we did. Uh just making sure if a if a did. Uh just making sure if a if a did. Uh just making sure if a if a family is going to sell their business, family is going to sell their business, family is going to sell their business, what that's going to look a little what that's going to look a little what that's going to look a little different in a few years than it does different in a few years than it does different in a few years than it does when you initially sell that business. when you initially sell that business. when you initially sell that business. » Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So So how » Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So So how » Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So So how much do all the different And and I had much do all the different And and I had much do all the different And and I had a guy on with a pavement company and he a guy on with a pavement company and he a guy on with a pavement company and he got rolled up just like you guys. And got rolled up just like you guys. And got rolled up just like you guys. And there's I can't remember how many there's I can't remember how many there's I can't remember how many different, you know, maybe 20 other different, you know, maybe 20 other different, you know, maybe 20 other large pavement asphalt companies across large pavement asphalt companies across large pavement asphalt companies across the country all got rolled up and they the country all got rolled up and they the country all got rolled up and they kind of co-mingle a little bit, but they kind of co-mingle a little bit, but they kind of co-mingle a little bit, but they have like different presidents they have like different presidents they have like different presidents of each locations or GMs. Is that kind of each locations or GMs. Is that kind of each locations or GMs. Is that kind of how it works? of how it works? of how it works? » Yeah. So the model from Kodiak from » Yeah. So the model from Kodiak from » Yeah. So the model from Kodiak from the start was to have a lot of like the start was to have a lot of like the start was to have a lot of like businesses together that they could businesses together that they could businesses together that they could collaborate but have them locally collaborate but have them locally collaborate but have them locally operated, locally run. Uh but there are operated, locally run. Uh but there are operated, locally run. Uh but there are some efficiencies, backroom accounting some efficiencies, backroom accounting some efficiencies, backroom accounting and some, you know, really smart and some, you know, really smart and some, you know, really smart management people and being able to management people and being able to management people and being able to collaborate with the other businesses, collaborate with the other businesses, collaborate with the other businesses, whether it be on sales or marketing. We whether it be on sales or marketing. We whether it be on sales or marketing. We get together a few times a year. Some get together a few times a year. Some get together a few times a year. Some vendor programming. vendor programming. vendor programming. » Yeah. uh just the power of the size » Yeah. uh just the power of the size » Yeah. uh just the power of the size of what we are now. So of what we are now. So of what we are now. So » that's awesome. Is everybody within that » that's awesome. Is everybody within that » that's awesome. Is everybody within that group uh in the same buy group uh with group uh in the same buy group uh with group uh in the same buy group uh with Brand Source? Are they in different Brand Source? Are they in different Brand Source? Are they in different groups? groups? groups? » Uh yeah, with the ex one of them is not » Uh yeah, with the ex one of them is not » Uh yeah, with the ex one of them is not right now. I know they're talking to right now. I know they're talking to right now. I know they're talking to them, but the four of the five of us are them, but the four of the five of us are them, but the four of the five of us are in Brand Source. in Brand Source. in Brand Source. » So now I'm going to go into the » So now I'm going to go into the » So now I'm going to go into the independent box store. Whenever I talk independent box store. Whenever I talk independent box store. Whenever I talk to people about the buy group, right? to people about the buy group, right? to people about the buy group, right? They're always like, "What what does They're always like, "What what does They're always like, "What what does that mean? Why are you gone three, four that mean? Why are you gone three, four that mean? Why are you gone three, four times a year?" uh when I come back home, times a year?" uh when I come back home, times a year?" uh when I come back home, it's it's an intriguing thing uh to a it's it's an intriguing thing uh to a it's it's an intriguing thing uh to a lot of people, but uh especially the lot of people, but uh especially the lot of people, but uh especially the concept of how does an independent concept of how does an independent concept of how does an independent retail appliance selling the same retail appliance selling the same retail appliance selling the same Whirlpool dishwasher that you can buy at Whirlpool dishwasher that you can buy at Whirlpool dishwasher that you can buy at Best Buy, Home Depot, Lowe's, um h how Best Buy, Home Depot, Lowe's, um h how Best Buy, Home Depot, Lowe's, um h how do they compete? And especially you've do they compete? And especially you've do they compete? And especially you've got all these independents now price got all these independents now price got all these independents now price matching. So would you break down what a matching. So would you break down what a matching. So would you break down what a independent appliance store buy group uh independent appliance store buy group uh independent appliance store buy group uh how it functions, what it is? Yeah. And how it functions, what it is? Yeah. And how it functions, what it is? Yeah. And uh as you know, I'm involved on the uh as you know, I'm involved on the uh as you know, I'm involved on the national board and have been for several national board and have been for several national board and have been for several years. Uh we've been part of Brand years. Uh we've been part of Brand years. Uh we've been part of Brand Source, which AVB was the original name, Source, which AVB was the original name, Source, which AVB was the original name, uh for over 40 years now. And it it's uh for over 40 years now. And it it's uh for over 40 years now. And it it's changed in what it does. Initially, it changed in what it does. Initially, it changed in what it does. Initially, it was a way to your point to stay was a way to your point to stay was a way to your point to stay competitive with the box stores to have competitive with the box stores to have competitive with the box stores to have kind of a collective pricing for the kind of a collective pricing for the kind of a collective pricing for the entire group. entire group. entire group. » Uh 1,500 members. Uh Brand Source, you » Uh 1,500 members. Uh Brand Source, you » Uh 1,500 members. Uh Brand Source, you know, is over $6 billion in buying power know, is over $6 billion in buying power know, is over $6 billion in buying power » and that's pretty substantial. And it » and that's pretty substantial. And it » and that's pretty substantial. And it allows us to compete with Home Depot and allows us to compete with Home Depot and allows us to compete with Home Depot and Lowe's pricewise, but again, still Lowe's pricewise, but again, still Lowe's pricewise, but again, still having that, you know, if you want to having that, you know, if you want to having that, you know, if you want to call it mom and pop feeling and uh call it mom and pop feeling and uh call it mom and pop feeling and uh having much better services with having much better services with having much better services with delivery and faster delivery and having delivery and faster delivery and having delivery and faster delivery and having service and more knowledgeable service and more knowledgeable service and more knowledgeable salespeople. Buying from somebody that salespeople. Buying from somebody that salespeople. Buying from somebody that sells a washing machine every day, isn't sells a washing machine every day, isn't sells a washing machine every day, isn't selling paint, isn't selling carpet, selling paint, isn't selling carpet, selling paint, isn't selling carpet, isn't looking for the Gorilla tape in isn't looking for the Gorilla tape in isn't looking for the Gorilla tape in the aisle. uh but having somebody that the aisle. uh but having somebody that the aisle. uh but having somebody that is very knowledgeable is very knowledgeable is very knowledgeable but now the group is a lot different but now the group is a lot different but now the group is a lot different than that they've really become uh has I than that they've really become uh has I than that they've really become uh has I know you know because you're very much know you know because you're very much know you know because you're very much into it the technology and the marketing into it the technology and the marketing into it the technology and the marketing and the advertising and the websites and the advertising and the websites and the advertising and the websites and they've kept us super competitive uh they've kept us super competitive uh they've kept us super competitive uh super efficient probably more profitable super efficient probably more profitable super efficient probably more profitable than ever uh I think during co we all than ever uh I think during co we all than ever uh I think during co we all saw that uh we had all the right tools saw that uh we had all the right tools saw that uh we had all the right tools to fight and uh be better at what we're to fight and uh be better at what we're to fight and uh be better at what we're doing No. doing No. doing No. » Yeah. I uh I've often talked about one » Yeah. I uh I've often talked about one » Yeah. I uh I've often talked about one of the most enjoyable experiences I've of the most enjoyable experiences I've of the most enjoyable experiences I've had in my self-employment time was had in my self-employment time was had in my self-employment time was serving on the board uh for AVB or Brand serving on the board uh for AVB or Brand serving on the board uh for AVB or Brand Source. And I was president of the Great Source. And I was president of the Great Source. And I was president of the Great Plains region and therefore I had a seat Plains region and therefore I had a seat Plains region and therefore I had a seat on the board of directors for I I think on the board of directors for I I think on the board of directors for I I think like five years. Um, on year two of like five years. Um, on year two of like five years. Um, on year two of getting into the business, some getting into the business, some getting into the business, some circumstances happened where I joined circumstances happened where I joined circumstances happened where I joined the board, basically was forced to join the board, basically was forced to join the board, basically was forced to join the board and then Gail uh at Kin's the board and then Gail uh at Kin's the board and then Gail uh at Kin's Appliance uh essentially volunteered me Appliance uh essentially volunteered me Appliance uh essentially volunteered me uh without me having any say in it and uh without me having any say in it and uh without me having any say in it and then our president stepped down 6 months then our president stepped down 6 months then our president stepped down 6 months later and I became president later and I became president later and I became president was my my quick learning curve with was my my quick learning curve with was my my quick learning curve with you guys. But the part that was you guys. But the part that was you guys. But the part that was really cool about that by group um really cool about that by group um really cool about that by group um specifically Brand source was my specifically Brand source was my specifically Brand source was my experience is that it was owned by the experience is that it was owned by the experience is that it was owned by the members, right? And and the members, right? And and the members, right? And and the members existed to help other members and it was existed to help other members and it was existed to help other members and it was facilitated. We did have a CEO. We did facilitated. We did have a CEO. We did facilitated. We did have a CEO. We did have our exec team. Uh but they reported have our exec team. Uh but they reported have our exec team. Uh but they reported to you guys and to the board of to you guys and to the board of to you guys and to the board of directors » and the whole mission of that uh » and the whole mission of that uh » and the whole mission of that uh entity was helping these independent entity was helping these independent entity was helping these independent channels which are a lot of legacy right channels which are a lot of legacy right channels which are a lot of legacy right there. You very rarely ran into first there. You very rarely ran into first there. You very rarely ran into first generation um owners in in that group. generation um owners in in that group. generation um owners in in that group. And there's more and more now for sure. And there's more and more now for sure. And there's more and more now for sure. And the longer I was there's more And the longer I was there's more And the longer I was there's more coming in which was really cool. But I coming in which was really cool. But I coming in which was really cool. But I mean it's it's such an interesting mean it's it's such an interesting mean it's it's such an interesting industry the independent appliance sales industry the independent appliance sales industry the independent appliance sales and service. I mean I talked to people and service. I mean I talked to people and service. I mean I talked to people that were fifth generation. It was that were fifth generation. It was that were fifth generation. It was crazy. You know fourth fifth generation crazy. You know fourth fifth generation crazy. You know fourth fifth generation was really common. Third generation in was really common. Third generation in was really common. Third generation in that industry and a lot of them had been that industry and a lot of them had been that industry and a lot of them had been in the group for ever right they in the group for ever right they in the group for ever right they grandkids are now in the group and the grandkids are now in the group and the grandkids are now in the group and the grandpa was in the group. So, it's it's grandpa was in the group. So, it's it's grandpa was in the group. So, it's it's definitely a very uh tight community and definitely a very uh tight community and definitely a very uh tight community and uh when you can have peers across the uh when you can have peers across the uh when you can have peers across the country doing the exact same thing you country doing the exact same thing you country doing the exact same thing you do and you can call them up and I do and you can call them up and I do and you can call them up and I and I always tell told you probably and I always tell told you probably and I always tell told you probably and everybody in Brand Source that I was everybody in Brand Source that I was everybody in Brand Source that I was jealous of that. Uh my first company jealous of that. Uh my first company jealous of that. Uh my first company cleaning restoration good to be cleaning restoration good to be cleaning restoration good to be clean didn't have any of that, right? Didn't didn't have any of that, right? Didn't didn't have any of that, right? Didn't have any type of community. I didn't have any type of community. I didn't have any type of community. I didn't have a guy I could call in Texas that have a guy I could call in Texas that have a guy I could call in Texas that does the exact same thing, right? that's does the exact same thing, right? that's does the exact same thing, right? that's not in my market or worried about not in my market or worried about not in my market or worried about competing with me that I could say, competing with me that I could say, competing with me that I could say, "Hey, I'm thinking about doing this or I "Hey, I'm thinking about doing this or I "Hey, I'm thinking about doing this or I have this problem. How do you handle have this problem. How do you handle have this problem. How do you handle it?" And the community aspect of it?" And the community aspect of it?" And the community aspect of that was just so fun. And my favorite that was just so fun. And my favorite that was just so fun. And my favorite thing in the world is talking to other thing in the world is talking to other thing in the world is talking to other business owners and if I can help in business owners and if I can help in business owners and if I can help in any way, and that whole group existed to any way, and that whole group existed to any way, and that whole group existed to do that. So, it was it was a very do that. So, it was it was a very do that. So, it was it was a very fulfilling time. And obviously, I got to fulfilling time. And obviously, I got to fulfilling time. And obviously, I got to be around people of they have a $1 be around people of they have a $1 be around people of they have a $1 million store and then you've got million store and then you've got million store and then you've got hundreds of million dollar, you know, hundreds of million dollar, you know, hundreds of million dollar, you know, businesses in that organization. So it businesses in that organization. So it businesses in that organization. So it was a very big range of business owners was a very big range of business owners was a very big range of business owners as well, right? And that variety is kind as well, right? And that variety is kind as well, right? And that variety is kind of nice. It it was very nice for me to of nice. It it was very nice for me to of nice. It it was very nice for me to be able to reach out to you at a whole be able to reach out to you at a whole be able to reach out to you at a whole another level. And and if you don't mind another level. And and if you don't mind another level. And and if you don't mind sharing, I know it's published on sharing, I know it's published on sharing, I know it's published on magazines, but what is the highest magazines, but what is the highest magazines, but what is the highest top revenue uh that the Dawn's locations top revenue uh that the Dawn's locations top revenue uh that the Dawn's locations have hit have hit have hit » um I I can tell you when we sold the » um I I can tell you when we sold the » um I I can tell you when we sold the business, we were about $105 million. business, we were about $105 million. business, we were about $105 million. » Yeah. So that's a very different Yeah. » Yeah. So that's a very different Yeah. » Yeah. So that's a very different Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. » Yeah. No. And we've made like Twice » Yeah. No. And we've made like Twice » Yeah. No. And we've made like Twice magazine has the top 40 dealers. We magazine has the top 40 dealers. We magazine has the top 40 dealers. We uh probably should have been in there uh probably should have been in there uh probably should have been in there before this past year, but we did hit before this past year, but we did hit before this past year, but we did hit that this year. I think we were 38 or that this year. I think we were 38 or that this year. I think we were 38 or 39. 39. 39. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Cuz those numbers are kind of hard to » Cuz those numbers are kind of hard to » Cuz those numbers are kind of hard to get sometimes. But uh yeah, I mean I to get sometimes. But uh yeah, I mean I to get sometimes. But uh yeah, I mean I to your point, I think that's what's so your point, I think that's what's so your point, I think that's what's so great about Bransource is there's so great about Bransource is there's so great about Bransource is there's so many subgroups in there and I know you many subgroups in there and I know you many subgroups in there and I know you were super involved and uh did a great were super involved and uh did a great were super involved and uh did a great job with the young professionals in job with the young professionals in job with the young professionals in there which I think allows us to get there which I think allows us to get there which I think allows us to get that second and third and fourth that second and third and fourth that second and third and fourth generation having you know smart people generation having you know smart people generation having you know smart people like yourself Sam that we're able to go like yourself Sam that we're able to go like yourself Sam that we're able to go and talk to other younger people uh and talk to other younger people uh and talk to other younger people uh about what Brand Source can do because about what Brand Source can do because about what Brand Source can do because it it is a great industry. it can be a it it is a great industry. it can be a it it is a great industry. it can be a great career. Uh, you know, we have the great career. Uh, you know, we have the great career. Uh, you know, we have the women in business, we have the Keystone women in business, we have the Keystone women in business, we have the Keystone group now. We have the pro and the power group now. We have the pro and the power group now. We have the pro and the power dealer groups. And dealer groups. And dealer groups. And » being able to sit with someone to your » being able to sit with someone to your » being able to sit with someone to your point in Texas, they have the exact same point in Texas, they have the exact same point in Texas, they have the exact same problems you do and see how they're problems you do and see how they're problems you do and see how they're figuring it out or how you've figured it figuring it out or how you've figured it figuring it out or how you've figured it out, I think, is uh as important as out, I think, is uh as important as out, I think, is uh as important as anything that the buying group does. So, anything that the buying group does. So, anything that the buying group does. So, » yeah. and being able to talk to you, » yeah. and being able to talk to you, » yeah. and being able to talk to you, talk to Jason at Famous Tate who's over talk to Jason at Famous Tate who's over talk to Jason at Famous Tate who's over 100 million in revenue as well. Last 100 million in revenue as well. Last 100 million in revenue as well. Last time I talked to him years ago, um time I talked to him years ago, um time I talked to him years ago, um specifically to say like, specifically to say like, specifically to say like, » "Hey, we're building it this way." And » "Hey, we're building it this way." And » "Hey, we're building it this way." And you know, very I mean, every small you know, very I mean, every small you know, very I mean, every small business struggles with this, especially business struggles with this, especially business struggles with this, especially when you're um when I left Charlie's, it when you're um when I left Charlie's, it when you're um when I left Charlie's, it was it was closing in on 3 million uh in was it was closing in on 3 million uh in was it was closing in on 3 million uh in revenue. And man, a lot of the systems revenue. And man, a lot of the systems revenue. And man, a lot of the systems we built because I talked to someone who we built because I talked to someone who we built because I talked to someone who had a 100 million a year operation, man, had a 100 million a year operation, man, had a 100 million a year operation, man, has saved us, right? We changed so many has saved us, right? We changed so many has saved us, right? We changed so many systems to be able to scale. And so it's systems to be able to scale. And so it's systems to be able to scale. And so it's really what a what a that those it's really what a what a that those it's really what a what a that those it's hard to have that access, right? Like hard to have that access, right? Like hard to have that access, right? Like Brand Source provides access that you Brand Source provides access that you Brand Source provides access that you want to have, especially with bigger want to have, especially with bigger want to have, especially with bigger dealers, right? That that will give you dealers, right? That that will give you dealers, right? That that will give you the time a day, right? You can say, the time a day, right? You can say, the time a day, right? You can say, "Hey, I've got a million dollar store. "Hey, I've got a million dollar store. "Hey, I've got a million dollar store. Um this is this is my plan for growth. Um this is this is my plan for growth. Um this is this is my plan for growth. what am I not thinking of like what am I not thinking of like what am I not thinking of like what's going to be the headache right what's going to be the headache right what's going to be the headache right and you guys have experienced them all and you guys have experienced them all and you guys have experienced them all how do you set up a distribution hub um how do you set up a distribution hub um how do you set up a distribution hub um so I did want to ask about that in in so I did want to ask about that in in so I did want to ask about that in in the market uh it's a high volume you the market uh it's a high volume you the market uh it's a high volume you know low I say low margin it can be good know low I say low margin it can be good know low I say low margin it can be good margin good blended margin if you're margin good blended margin if you're margin good blended margin if you're running the business right um but how running the business right um but how running the business right um but how many logistically if you have 12 stores many logistically if you have 12 stores many logistically if you have 12 stores do you guys have one central do you guys have one central do you guys have one central distribution » for the 12 » for the 12 » for the 12 » one main hub that uh We can service uh » one main hub that uh We can service uh » one main hub that uh We can service uh all of our locations with the exception all of our locations with the exception all of our locations with the exception of Erie out of uh on a daily basis. And of Erie out of uh on a daily basis. And of Erie out of uh on a daily basis. And actually even we used to we have a small actually even we used to we have a small actually even we used to we have a small warehouse. So Erie is about 2 hours warehouse. So Erie is about 2 hours warehouse. So Erie is about 2 hours north of Pittsburgh uh up on the Ohio north of Pittsburgh uh up on the Ohio north of Pittsburgh uh up on the Ohio and uh New York line uh in northern and uh New York line uh in northern and uh New York line uh in northern Pennsylvania and Lake Erie. Uh we run a Pennsylvania and Lake Erie. Uh we run a Pennsylvania and Lake Erie. Uh we run a truck now up there every morning. truck now up there every morning. truck now up there every morning. However, because we knew we do next day However, because we knew we do next day However, because we knew we do next day delivery out of every location. delivery out of every location. delivery out of every location. Morgantown, West Virginia is about 50 Morgantown, West Virginia is about 50 Morgantown, West Virginia is about 50 minutes south of Pittsburgh from our minutes south of Pittsburgh from our minutes south of Pittsburgh from our distribution center. So the trucks will distribution center. So the trucks will distribution center. So the trucks will leave from here to there. But as we look leave from here to there. But as we look leave from here to there. But as we look to expand east and west, we'll probably to expand east and west, we'll probably to expand east and west, we'll probably have to add another distribution center. have to add another distribution center. have to add another distribution center. So if we were to go into Ohio, for So if we were to go into Ohio, for So if we were to go into Ohio, for example, we probably would open a example, we probably would open a example, we probably would open a something in northeast Ohio that could something in northeast Ohio that could something in northeast Ohio that could do both Erie and the Ohio market. No. do both Erie and the Ohio market. No. do both Erie and the Ohio market. No. » So, so break that down at that many » So, so break that down at that many » So, so break that down at that many locations that revenue amount. I locations that revenue amount. I locations that revenue amount. I mean, how many units, how many delivery mean, how many units, how many delivery mean, how many units, how many delivery crews, how many deliveries are happening crews, how many deliveries are happening crews, how many deliveries are happening a day? And you guys are still in a day? And you guys are still in a day? And you guys are still in service, correct? service, correct? service, correct? » We are repair. » We are repair. » We are repair. » Yeah, we run 25 service trucks a day. » Yeah, we run 25 service trucks a day. » Yeah, we run 25 service trucks a day. » And how many appointments a day are they » And how many appointments a day are they » And how many appointments a day are they doing on average? doing on average? doing on average? » They're doing anywhere from six to » They're doing anywhere from six to » They're doing anywhere from six to eight. eight. eight. » Geez. » Geez. » Geez. » On the uh the delivery, we could have 50 » On the uh the delivery, we could have 50 » On the uh the delivery, we could have 50 as you know. Oh, yeah. service techs are as you know. Oh, yeah. service techs are as you know. Oh, yeah. service techs are a really a hard uh position for us to a really a hard uh position for us to a really a hard uh position for us to fill. We're uh hiring uh apprentices now fill. We're uh hiring uh apprentices now fill. We're uh hiring uh apprentices now is what we're doing and we're trying to is what we're doing and we're trying to is what we're doing and we're trying to train them ourselves. train them ourselves. train them ourselves. Uh and then uh we have about 33 to 35 uh Uh and then uh we have about 33 to 35 uh Uh and then uh we have about 33 to 35 uh delivery trucks on the road every day. delivery trucks on the road every day. delivery trucks on the road every day. Same thing. They're doing around eight Same thing. They're doing around eight Same thing. They're doing around eight stops a day per truck. stops a day per truck. stops a day per truck. » Wow, that's crazy. Yeah. So you're 3 400 » Wow, that's crazy. Yeah. So you're 3 400 » Wow, that's crazy. Yeah. So you're 3 400 points of contact a day in homes. Yeah, points of contact a day in homes. Yeah, points of contact a day in homes. Yeah, we're yeah, we're between four and 500 we're yeah, we're between four and 500 we're yeah, we're between four and 500 homes uh a day. Uh our friends up at homes uh a day. Uh our friends up at homes uh a day. Uh our friends up at Yale Appliance actually in their Yale Appliance actually in their Yale Appliance actually in their showrooms show uh on a board where showrooms show uh on a board where showrooms show uh on a board where they're at for the day and it's amazing they're at for the day and it's amazing they're at for the day and it's amazing and they're even larger than us and they and they're even larger than us and they and they're even larger than us and they it's cool to see how many, you know, it's cool to see how many, you know, it's cool to see how many, you know, homes they go to every day. So, homes they go to every day. So, homes they go to every day. So, » yeah. And I think uh similar to like uh » yeah. And I think uh similar to like uh » yeah. And I think uh similar to like uh pest control cuz you can do a pest control cuz you can do a pest control cuz you can do a lot of appointments in a day, right? lot of appointments in a day, right? lot of appointments in a day, right? It's they're smaller. Uh, but it's like It's they're smaller. Uh, but it's like It's they're smaller. Uh, but it's like reoccurring and you're in a lot of reoccurring and you're in a lot of reoccurring and you're in a lot of different homes. But once you're in a different homes. But once you're in a different homes. But once you're in a community long enough, that was community long enough, that was community long enough, that was super weird. When we bought Dennis out, super weird. When we bought Dennis out, super weird. When we bought Dennis out, Dennis Young, it was Young's appliance Dennis Young, it was Young's appliance Dennis Young, it was Young's appliance at the time. We'd be driving somewhere, at the time. We'd be driving somewhere, at the time. We'd be driving somewhere, Tim, and he'd just look at that house Tim, and he'd just look at that house Tim, and he'd just look at that house and go, "Oh, I put uh this in that and go, "Oh, I put uh this in that and go, "Oh, I put uh this in that house." I mean, every house in town, you house." I mean, every house in town, you house." I mean, every house in town, you drive by, he could tell you what he put drive by, he could tell you what he put drive by, he could tell you what he put in, where it's located. Um, right. And I in, where it's located. Um, right. And I in, where it's located. Um, right. And I think now, like seven, well, what would think now, like seven, well, what would think now, like seven, well, what would it be? Steven's got it now. So 8 years it be? Steven's got it now. So 8 years it be? Steven's got it now. So 8 years in Charlie's uh I'm sure he can say the in Charlie's uh I'm sure he can say the in Charlie's uh I'm sure he can say the same thing over there and that same thing over there and that same thing over there and that whole crew, right? They see an address whole crew, right? They see an address whole crew, right? They see an address and they know the name or they see the and they know the name or they see the and they know the name or they see the name and they know the address. name and they know the address. name and they know the address. » You you know you have so many re repeat » You you know you have so many re repeat » You you know you have so many re repeat customers cuz stuff breaks all the time. customers cuz stuff breaks all the time. customers cuz stuff breaks all the time. So So talk about service um technology So So talk about service um technology So So talk about service um technology changing with appliances. Uh traditional changing with appliances. Uh traditional changing with appliances. Uh traditional appliance repair, right? Your dishwasher appliance repair, right? Your dishwasher appliance repair, right? Your dishwasher stops working, you call them in, they stops working, you call them in, they stops working, you call them in, they come in, fix it. Um, and it's it's a come in, fix it. Um, and it's it's a come in, fix it. Um, and it's it's a tough industry because you cost out tough industry because you cost out tough industry because you cost out of repair, right? Or you price them out of repair, right? Or you price them out of repair, right? Or you price them out of repair into sale. And that was always of repair into sale. And that was always of repair into sale. And that was always the hardest part at Charlie's was going the hardest part at Charlie's was going the hardest part at Charlie's was going in to do a repair and then it's not in to do a repair and then it's not in to do a repair and then it's not worth it. Um, or it hits a certain worth it. Um, or it hits a certain worth it. Um, or it hits a certain percentage, but like you still got to percentage, but like you still got to percentage, but like you still got to have it. Um, because there is easy fixes have it. Um, because there is easy fixes have it. Um, because there is easy fixes out there. Um but yeah, talk about out there. Um but yeah, talk about out there. Um but yeah, talk about the model of that business because I the model of that business because I the model of that business because I think a lot of people think a lot of people think a lot of people » I think regardless because a warranty, » I think regardless because a warranty, » I think regardless because a warranty, you know, you're going to fix something you know, you're going to fix something you know, you're going to fix something and warranty for sure. So being able to and warranty for sure. So being able to and warranty for sure. So being able to have that solution for the customer, I have that solution for the customer, I have that solution for the customer, I think makes the independent, the think makes the independent, the think makes the independent, the Charlie's, the Dons, Charlie's, the Dons, Charlie's, the Dons, » uh a viable solution for that customer » uh a viable solution for that customer » uh a viable solution for that customer because they can call us and we can because they can call us and we can because they can call us and we can service it for them. Y service it for them. Y service it for them. Y » uh what's crazy is I don't know uh the » uh what's crazy is I don't know uh the » uh what's crazy is I don't know uh the car industry uh makes their money on the car industry uh makes their money on the car industry uh makes their money on service. service. service. » Uh the appliance industry, we throw » Uh the appliance industry, we throw » Uh the appliance industry, we throw money down the toilet on service. We money down the toilet on service. We money down the toilet on service. We lose money on service every day, but it lose money on service every day, but it lose money on service every day, but it is a necessity. Uh it allows us to sell is a necessity. Uh it allows us to sell is a necessity. Uh it allows us to sell more. Uh but to your point, anything more. Uh but to your point, anything more. Uh but to your point, anything over seven years that somebody calls us over seven years that somebody calls us over seven years that somebody calls us in for service now, we really try to in for service now, we really try to in for service now, we really try to talk them into looking and buying talk them into looking and buying talk them into looking and buying something else because you're starting something else because you're starting something else because you're starting to get to the point that by the time we to get to the point that by the time we to get to the point that by the time we come out with the trip charge and the come out with the trip charge and the come out with the trip charge and the labor and the parts uh you know, labor and the parts uh you know, labor and the parts uh you know, appliances really uh since I've started appliances really uh since I've started appliances really uh since I've started and I'm going almost on 40 years here. and I'm going almost on 40 years here. and I'm going almost on 40 years here. So like I said, it's uh 30 I think 37 So like I said, it's uh 30 I think 37 So like I said, it's uh 30 I think 37 years this year. Uh, I was selling a man years this year. Uh, I was selling a man years this year. Uh, I was selling a man of sidebyside refrigerators for $1,700 of sidebyside refrigerators for $1,700 of sidebyside refrigerators for $1,700 uh when I started and you can buy a side uh when I started and you can buy a side uh when I started and you can buy a side by side now for $1,000. So, by side now for $1,000. So, by side now for $1,000. So, » it's crazy. » it's crazy. » it's crazy. » They don't make them like they used to, » They don't make them like they used to, » They don't make them like they used to, but they sure cost a lot less than they but they sure cost a lot less than they but they sure cost a lot less than they used to. So, uh, the costs really aren't used to. So, uh, the costs really aren't used to. So, uh, the costs really aren't like in the auto industry or furniture, like in the auto industry or furniture, like in the auto industry or furniture, a lot of places where they've gotten a lot of places where they've gotten a lot of places where they've gotten crazy expensive. I mean, yeah, we've had crazy expensive. I mean, yeah, we've had crazy expensive. I mean, yeah, we've had some tariffs, but really it's they've some tariffs, but really it's they've some tariffs, but really it's they've stayed pretty flat. So, stayed pretty flat. So, stayed pretty flat. So, » yeah. Yeah. I I remember Dennis talking » yeah. Yeah. I I remember Dennis talking » yeah. Yeah. I I remember Dennis talking about microwaves, like how expensive about microwaves, like how expensive about microwaves, like how expensive microwaves were back in the days. microwaves were back in the days. microwaves were back in the days. » Oh, yeah. » Oh, yeah. » Oh, yeah. » And now they're just like they go out, » And now they're just like they go out, » And now they're just like they go out, throw them away, right? Just buy another throw them away, right? Just buy another throw them away, right? Just buy another one. Don't even one. Don't even one. Don't even » ne unless they're over the range or » ne unless they're over the range or » ne unless they're over the range or complicated install. Um do you see that complicated install. Um do you see that complicated install. Um do you see that changing in the service industry? Do you changing in the service industry? Do you changing in the service industry? Do you see an opportunity or a swing with the see an opportunity or a swing with the see an opportunity or a swing with the shortage? Right. Because the supply shortage? Right. Because the supply shortage? Right. Because the supply and demand issue is real, right? There's and demand issue is real, right? There's and demand issue is real, right? There's never enough servicesers, but there's never enough servicesers, but there's never enough servicesers, but there's more than enough work to have. And more than enough work to have. And more than enough work to have. And there's these standalone service shops there's these standalone service shops there's these standalone service shops that obviously have figured something that obviously have figured something that obviously have figured something out. Um, what's your take on that? out. Um, what's your take on that? out. Um, what's your take on that? Well, some of the some of the standalone Well, some of the some of the standalone Well, some of the some of the standalone that do especially that do warranty that do especially that do warranty that do especially that do warranty work, I know they get a little bit of work, I know they get a little bit of work, I know they get a little bit of extra on the warranty rates extra on the warranty rates extra on the warranty rates uh to come out. But uh and some of them uh to come out. But uh and some of them uh to come out. But uh and some of them I think you know again I think if you I think you know again I think if you I think you know again I think if you were a self-servicing dealer and you had were a self-servicing dealer and you had were a self-servicing dealer and you had one or two trucks you could probably one or two trucks you could probably one or two trucks you could probably make a decent living. But when you have make a decent living. But when you have make a decent living. But when you have a warehouse and you have a call someone a warehouse and you have a call someone a warehouse and you have a call someone taking the call for you and somebody taking the call for you and somebody taking the call for you and somebody ordering the parts, somebody receiving ordering the parts, somebody receiving ordering the parts, somebody receiving the parts and then you know dispatching the parts and then you know dispatching the parts and then you know dispatching that's where I think the costs are uh that's where I think the costs are uh that's where I think the costs are uh they start to get up there. So they start to get up there. So they start to get up there. So » yeah, » yeah, » yeah, » but uh again I agree there's always » but uh again I agree there's always » but uh again I agree there's always going to need have the need for service. going to need have the need for service. going to need have the need for service. Uh, I don't think we're ever going to Uh, I don't think we're ever going to Uh, I don't think we're ever going to get more from the manufacturers get more from the manufacturers get more from the manufacturers just because there's only so much, you just because there's only so much, you just because there's only so much, you know, based on what they're making right know, based on what they're making right know, based on what they're making right now that they can do. So, I think we now that they can do. So, I think we now that they can do. So, I think we just have to get better at what we're just have to get better at what we're just have to get better at what we're doing. Uh, I do know AI is helping with doing. Uh, I do know AI is helping with doing. Uh, I do know AI is helping with even us going out and having the part even us going out and having the part even us going out and having the part and being more efficient. So, I think and being more efficient. So, I think and being more efficient. So, I think you, you know, if you can get out there you, you know, if you can get out there you, you know, if you can get out there and get somewhere between 72 and 80% on and get somewhere between 72 and 80% on and get somewhere between 72 and 80% on your first time complete, you can be a your first time complete, you can be a your first time complete, you can be a successful serer. And and what Tim means successful serer. And and what Tim means successful serer. And and what Tim means by that in the appliance service by that in the appliance service by that in the appliance service industry, it's really difficult to industry, it's really difficult to industry, it's really difficult to always have every part on hand because always have every part on hand because always have every part on hand because there's so many parts. So if you go out, there's so many parts. So if you go out, there's so many parts. So if you go out, you do diagnostics, and you realize it's you do diagnostics, and you realize it's you do diagnostics, and you realize it's a part you don't have in stock uh or in a part you don't have in stock uh or in a part you don't have in stock uh or in your truck, then you leave, you order your truck, then you leave, you order your truck, then you leave, you order it, when it comes in, you go back out a it, when it comes in, you go back out a it, when it comes in, you go back out a second time. And those are that is those second time. And those are that is those second time. And those are that is those aren't very profitable. Uh because aren't very profitable. Uh because aren't very profitable. Uh because again, you're pricing them into again, you're pricing them into again, you're pricing them into replacement, right? Or pricing them out replacement, right? Or pricing them out replacement, right? Or pricing them out of repair. of repair. of repair. » And that's that's the problem. what » And that's that's the problem. what » And that's that's the problem. what technologies are you using or seeing to technologies are you using or seeing to technologies are you using or seeing to help with that? help with that? help with that? » So, I mean, we're quite frankly just » So, I mean, we're quite frankly just » So, I mean, we're quite frankly just using some AI tools for that right now. using some AI tools for that right now. using some AI tools for that right now. Uh, even chat GPT, quite frankly, it Uh, even chat GPT, quite frankly, it Uh, even chat GPT, quite frankly, it gives us a couple solutions. Uh, we've gives us a couple solutions. Uh, we've gives us a couple solutions. Uh, we've actually have pre-diagnosers that will actually have pre-diagnosers that will actually have pre-diagnosers that will take every service call, look at it, go take every service call, look at it, go take every service call, look at it, go through uh our database to see, hey, through uh our database to see, hey, through uh our database to see, hey, this model, this is what we see this model, this is what we see this model, this is what we see happening. So, we'll go through our happening. So, we'll go through our happening. So, we'll go through our POSOS ERP system. Just trying to be POSOS ERP system. Just trying to be POSOS ERP system. Just trying to be smarter on what, you know, okay, we smarter on what, you know, okay, we smarter on what, you know, okay, we think it's one of these three parts. So, think it's one of these three parts. So, think it's one of these three parts. So, if we take those three parts out and use if we take those three parts out and use if we take those three parts out and use one of them, we're still way ahead. one of them, we're still way ahead. one of them, we're still way ahead. » Yeah. So, » Yeah. So, » Yeah. So, » are the people answering the phone, » are the people answering the phone, » are the people answering the phone, are they appliance techs? Like, are do are they appliance techs? Like, are do are they appliance techs? Like, are do they have a background in that or are they have a background in that or are they have a background in that or are they just they just they just » So, no, we have customer service reps » So, no, we have customer service reps » So, no, we have customer service reps that we just do training with and try to that we just do training with and try to that we just do training with and try to get them asking the right questions. And get them asking the right questions. And get them asking the right questions. And then from there, uh, we have two then from there, uh, we have two then from there, uh, we have two gentlemen that work for us. Actually, gentlemen that work for us. Actually, gentlemen that work for us. Actually, neither of them are in one's up in, uh, neither of them are in one's up in, uh, neither of them are in one's up in, uh, New England and the other one is over in New England and the other one is over in New England and the other one is over in Illinois. They'll look at the calls and Illinois. They'll look at the calls and Illinois. They'll look at the calls and they'll say, "Hey, this is what we think they'll say, "Hey, this is what we think they'll say, "Hey, this is what we think it is based on the research that we've it is based on the research that we've it is based on the research that we've done." done." done." » Oh, interesting. So, they're actually » Oh, interesting. So, they're actually » Oh, interesting. So, they're actually just listening to the calls or actually just listening to the calls or actually just listening to the calls or actually » or they'll get a transcript of the call » or they'll get a transcript of the call » or they'll get a transcript of the call and they'll go through it and look to and they'll go through it and look to and they'll go through it and look to see on the service ticket and they'll see on the service ticket and they'll see on the service ticket and they'll maybe, hey, they have a question. maybe, hey, they have a question. maybe, hey, they have a question. They'll go in and listen to that call at They'll go in and listen to that call at They'll go in and listen to that call at that point. that point. that point. » Interesting. Yeah, that's cool. How else » Interesting. Yeah, that's cool. How else » Interesting. Yeah, that's cool. How else is uh technology changing your business? is uh technology changing your business? is uh technology changing your business? » Uh dispatch track. I mean, I think that's dispatch track. I mean, I think that's been a huge uh we have package AI is been a huge uh we have package AI is been a huge uh we have package AI is what we're using now. So, we're tracking what we're using now. So, we're tracking what we're using now. So, we're tracking the delivery. We're tracking the delivery. We're tracking the delivery. We're tracking the efficiency of the delivery. We're taking efficiency of the delivery. We're taking efficiency of the delivery. We're taking pictures when we get the products to the pictures when we get the products to the pictures when we get the products to the home. We're taking pictures of uh the home. We're taking pictures of uh the home. We're taking pictures of uh the condition of the kitchen, the floors, condition of the kitchen, the floors, condition of the kitchen, the floors, the door jambs, the doors, the door jambs, the doors, the door jambs, the doors, the appliances that were leaving. Uh as you appliances that were leaving. Uh as you appliances that were leaving. Uh as you know, I mean, so many people call you know, I mean, so many people call you know, I mean, so many people call you after the fact and say, "Hey, my after the fact and say, "Hey, my after the fact and say, "Hey, my refrigerator's dented and you scratched refrigerator's dented and you scratched refrigerator's dented and you scratched the floor." the floor." the floor." » And we say, "Actually, no, we didn't. We » And we say, "Actually, no, we didn't. We » And we say, "Actually, no, we didn't. We set here's a picture of the floor. We set here's a picture of the floor. We set here's a picture of the floor. We set the refrigerator on some Luon and set the refrigerator on some Luon and set the refrigerator on some Luon and there was no dent in the door when we there was no dent in the door when we there was no dent in the door when we left." and being able to have that's left." and being able to have that's left." and being able to have that's been a gamecher for us. Uh, package AI been a gamecher for us. Uh, package AI been a gamecher for us. Uh, package AI also kind of manages the efficiency of also kind of manages the efficiency of also kind of manages the efficiency of the different trucks. So, we may say, the different trucks. So, we may say, the different trucks. So, we may say, hey, we think this truck can do eight hey, we think this truck can do eight hey, we think this truck can do eight deliveries. And they'll say, well, based deliveries. And they'll say, well, based deliveries. And they'll say, well, based on their last 6 months, they can on their last 6 months, they can on their last 6 months, they can actually do nine deliveries. actually do nine deliveries. actually do nine deliveries. » So, you could add a delivery to that » So, you could add a delivery to that » So, you could add a delivery to that truck, how long it takes them to do truck, how long it takes them to do truck, how long it takes them to do product categories, washers, product categories, washers, product categories, washers, refrigerators, dishwashers. That's refrigerators, dishwashers. That's refrigerators, dishwashers. That's interesting because that's kind of also interesting because that's kind of also interesting because that's kind of also tracking the behavior of the delivery tracking the behavior of the delivery tracking the behavior of the delivery crew themselves and their abilities. crew themselves and their abilities. crew themselves and their abilities. » Exactly. » Exactly. » Exactly. » Yeah. So that and that is per crew and » Yeah. So that and that is per crew and » Yeah. So that and that is per crew and it's just got a truck name or truck it's just got a truck name or truck it's just got a truck name or truck five. Yeah, five. Yeah, five. Yeah, » that's interesting. That's a good idea. » that's interesting. That's a good idea. » that's interesting. That's a good idea. » Um what's changed on the » Um what's changed on the » Um what's changed on the manufacturing relationship with manufacturing relationship with manufacturing relationship with retailers » in 37 years? was I mean APIs, you know, » in 37 years? was I mean APIs, you know, » in 37 years? was I mean APIs, you know, are super good. Uh speed, efficiency, are super good. Uh speed, efficiency, are super good. Uh speed, efficiency, uh reliability, just being able to place uh reliability, just being able to place uh reliability, just being able to place that purchase order, uh from our system, that purchase order, uh from our system, that purchase order, uh from our system, not having to go into their system. So, not having to go into their system. So, not having to go into their system. So, that's been very good. Uh pricing is that's been very good. Uh pricing is that's been very good. Uh pricing is more accurate when you do that. The what more accurate when you do that. The what more accurate when you do that. The what you're ordering is more accurate. you're you're ordering is more accurate. you're you're ordering is more accurate. you're not hitting the wrong button on a vendor not hitting the wrong button on a vendor not hitting the wrong button on a vendor website and ordering black instead of website and ordering black instead of website and ordering black instead of white because you don't know the letter white because you don't know the letter white because you don't know the letter at the end. So, that's definitely at the end. So, that's definitely at the end. So, that's definitely helped. [clears throat] helped. [clears throat] helped. [clears throat] Uh, Uh, Uh, you know, right now the appliance you know, right now the appliance you know, right now the appliance industry is kind of in a flux. Uh, we industry is kind of in a flux. Uh, we industry is kind of in a flux. Uh, we used to have 8 n 10 manufacturers. We're used to have 8 n 10 manufacturers. We're used to have 8 n 10 manufacturers. We're down to four or five. And just, you down to four or five. And just, you down to four or five. And just, you know, look at the landscape. That could know, look at the landscape. That could know, look at the landscape. That could change pretty dramatically. We just had change pretty dramatically. We just had change pretty dramatically. We just had uh Medadia and Electrolux do a joint uh Medadia and Electrolux do a joint uh Medadia and Electrolux do a joint venture. venture. venture. » Oh, I didn't know that. » Oh, I didn't know that. » Oh, I didn't know that. » Yeah, it just happened in the last uh 45 » Yeah, it just happened in the last uh 45 » Yeah, it just happened in the last uh 45 days. days. days. » Huh. » Huh. » Huh. » So, you know, I don't know what that » So, you know, I don't know what that » So, you know, I don't know what that means long term. I can tell you what I means long term. I can tell you what I means long term. I can tell you what I think it means, but uh think it means, but uh think it means, but uh » what do you think it means? » what do you think it means? » what do you think it means? » I I think it means that media probably » I I think it means that media probably » I I think it means that media probably at some point and Electrolux have a at some point and Electrolux have a at some point and Electrolux have a merger. merger. merger. » So, it's a joint venture and factories » So, it's a joint venture and factories » So, it's a joint venture and factories right now. I think they see how they can right now. I think they see how they can right now. I think they see how they can play together and see what the play together and see what the play together and see what the Department of Justice thinks of uh the Department of Justice thinks of uh the Department of Justice thinks of uh the two companies together and are they too two companies together and are they too two companies together and are they too big but uh you know we have some other big but uh you know we have some other big but uh you know we have some other vendors that are that are struggling vendors that are that are struggling vendors that are that are struggling quite frankly right now. So quite frankly right now. So quite frankly right now. So » well and I don't think a lot of people » well and I don't think a lot of people » well and I don't think a lot of people know this but you know Whirlpool is not know this but you know Whirlpool is not know this but you know Whirlpool is not just Whirlpool right I think the public just Whirlpool right I think the public just Whirlpool right I think the public it's Whirlpool is KitchenAid Jire a Mana it's Whirlpool is KitchenAid Jire a Mana it's Whirlpool is KitchenAid Jire a Mana May Tag uh and then Ro is Roper still a May Tag uh and then Ro is Roper still a May Tag uh and then Ro is Roper still a deal the it's basically a mana with a deal the it's basically a mana with a deal the it's basically a mana with a different name still owns the name but I different name still owns the name but I different name still owns the name but I don't think they actively uh make don't think they actively uh make don't think they actively uh make anything from Roper I they may uh anything from Roper I they may uh anything from Roper I they may uh private label that for some of the uh private label that for some of the uh private label that for some of the uh you know some of the you know some of the you know some of the selling uh Sam's Clubs, Costco's, things selling uh Sam's Clubs, Costco's, things selling uh Sam's Clubs, Costco's, things like that. like that. like that. » Yeah. Uh so for the everyday consumer » Yeah. Uh so for the everyday consumer » Yeah. Uh so for the everyday consumer that's listening to this that has no that's listening to this that has no that's listening to this that has no idea about appliances, um they're going idea about appliances, um they're going idea about appliances, um they're going in to buy appliances, what should in to buy appliances, what should in to buy appliances, what should they think about? Like what should they think about? Like what should they think about? Like what should be the thought process? I get asked all be the thought process? I get asked all be the thought process? I get asked all the time and it's hard to answer like, the time and it's hard to answer like, the time and it's hard to answer like, "Hey, what brand should I buy?" And uh "Hey, what brand should I buy?" And uh "Hey, what brand should I buy?" And uh what can I trust? what can I trust? what can I trust? you know, is probably you probably you know, is probably you probably you know, is probably you probably agree. There's not a whole lot of agree. There's not a whole lot of agree. There's not a whole lot of difference in the brands. There truly difference in the brands. There truly difference in the brands. There truly isn't. Uh I I think what you have to isn't. Uh I I think what you have to isn't. Uh I I think what you have to think about is how you use that think about is how you use that think about is how you use that appliance. So for a refrigerator, for appliance. So for a refrigerator, for appliance. So for a refrigerator, for example, like everyone used to say, how example, like everyone used to say, how example, like everyone used to say, how many people are in your family? Well, many people are in your family? Well, many people are in your family? Well, that really doesn't matter. What matters that really doesn't matter. What matters that really doesn't matter. What matters is how often do you go to the grocery is how often do you go to the grocery is how often do you go to the grocery store? How much food do you throw away? store? How much food do you throw away? store? How much food do you throw away? Uh how often are you cooking at home? Uh Uh how often are you cooking at home? Uh Uh how often are you cooking at home? Uh if you can answer some of those if you can answer some of those if you can answer some of those questions, maybe you don't need questions, maybe you don't need questions, maybe you don't need something as big. something as big. something as big. » Uh you're able to kind of, you know, do » Uh you're able to kind of, you know, do » Uh you're able to kind of, you know, do you use the door bins? Do you buy fresh? you use the door bins? Do you buy fresh? you use the door bins? Do you buy fresh? Do you buy frozen? Uh I I think talking Do you buy frozen? Uh I I think talking Do you buy frozen? Uh I I think talking through some of those things on the through some of those things on the through some of those things on the laundry. Do you do wash every day or do laundry. Do you do wash every day or do laundry. Do you do wash every day or do you do it on Saturdays when you're off? you do it on Saturdays when you're off? you do it on Saturdays when you're off? If you're doing it every day, maybe you If you're doing it every day, maybe you If you're doing it every day, maybe you don't need something as big. Do you go don't need something as big. Do you go don't need something as big. Do you go to the dry cleaners? So, I think asking to the dry cleaners? So, I think asking to the dry cleaners? So, I think asking and really when you walk in thinking and really when you walk in thinking and really when you walk in thinking about how you use those different about how you use those different about how you use those different appliances, appliances, appliances, uh you can really help the salesman help uh you can really help the salesman help uh you can really help the salesman help you if you're able to answer those you if you're able to answer those you if you're able to answer those questions and think about those things. questions and think about those things. questions and think about those things. » Yeah. Yeah, that's a good that's a good » Yeah. Yeah, that's a good that's a good » Yeah. Yeah, that's a good that's a good answer. Um are you guys still in answer. Um are you guys still in answer. Um are you guys still in bedding? bedding? bedding? » We are not » We are not » We are not » not in bed. » not in bed. » not in bed. » During COVID, we got out of that just » During COVID, we got out of that just » During COVID, we got out of that just because nobody was coming in to lay on because nobody was coming in to lay on because nobody was coming in to lay on beds. beds. beds. » Yeah. And talk about the » Yeah. And talk about the » Yeah. And talk about the diversification. Are you guys you were diversification. Are you guys you were diversification. Are you guys you were doing fixtures? Are you guys still doing fixtures? Are you guys still doing fixtures? Are you guys still doing the um I was trying to remember what the um I was trying to remember what the um I was trying to remember what like essentially plumbing? like essentially plumbing? like essentially plumbing? » Yeah, we do plumbing. We do decorative » Yeah, we do plumbing. We do decorative » Yeah, we do plumbing. We do decorative plumbing. So, uh kitchen and bathrooms. plumbing. So, uh kitchen and bathrooms. plumbing. So, uh kitchen and bathrooms. Uh we're in the outdoor space. We're in Uh we're in the outdoor space. We're in Uh we're in the outdoor space. We're in the outdoor furniture space. the outdoor furniture space. the outdoor furniture space. Uh grills, pizza ovens. Uh grills, pizza ovens. Uh grills, pizza ovens. Uh we've been out of electronics for Uh we've been out of electronics for Uh we've been out of electronics for several years. Uh that market's kind of several years. Uh that market's kind of several years. Uh that market's kind of » been all over the board. So, » been all over the board. So, » been all over the board. So, » yeah, it's a tough market. Um, uh, I'll » yeah, it's a tough market. Um, uh, I'll » yeah, it's a tough market. Um, uh, I'll you've got two minutes with I have two you've got two minutes with I have two you've got two minutes with I have two legal minutes with you. Um, what if legal minutes with you. Um, what if legal minutes with you. Um, what if somebody's thinking about and I talk to somebody's thinking about and I talk to somebody's thinking about and I talk to young people all the time that are young people all the time that are young people all the time that are looking to just buy something or start looking to just buy something or start looking to just buy something or start something, right? They're not looking to something, right? They're not looking to something, right? They're not looking to change the world. They want to build a change the world. They want to build a change the world. They want to build a good solid business. Uh, what would be good solid business. Uh, what would be good solid business. Uh, what would be your advice to someone that would think your advice to someone that would think your advice to someone that would think about uh, getting into this industry? about uh, getting into this industry? about uh, getting into this industry? And kind of two parts. I'm curious. How And kind of two parts. I'm curious. How And kind of two parts. I'm curious. How much capital do you think someone needs much capital do you think someone needs much capital do you think someone needs today to start a store? Right. a decent today to start a store? Right. a decent today to start a store? Right. a decent just appliance store. Um, and then just appliance store. Um, and then just appliance store. Um, and then what would be your advice? what would be your advice? what would be your advice? » Probably you can get by with $100,000 in » Probably you can get by with $100,000 in » Probably you can get by with $100,000 in capital to start. Uh, you'll need a line capital to start. Uh, you'll need a line capital to start. Uh, you'll need a line of credit from the bank for sure to buy of credit from the bank for sure to buy of credit from the bank for sure to buy the products. So, I think if you have the products. So, I think if you have the products. So, I think if you have some, you know, uh, money in the bank some, you know, uh, money in the bank some, you know, uh, money in the bank that you're able to put up as a that you're able to put up as a that you're able to put up as a collateral against that, uh, I think collateral against that, uh, I think collateral against that, uh, I think that you would be okay. uh that you would be okay. uh that you would be okay. uh make sure that wherever you're looking make sure that wherever you're looking make sure that wherever you're looking that uh people are buying appliances that uh people are buying appliances that uh people are buying appliances that it's a good demog I mean what you that it's a good demog I mean what you that it's a good demog I mean what you did in Kansas is a is a great success did in Kansas is a is a great success did in Kansas is a is a great success story » taking the business from where it was to » taking the business from where it was to » taking the business from where it was to where you got it to. So making sure where you got it to. So making sure where you got it to. So making sure you're able to grow a business you're able to grow a business you're able to grow a business » uh because if you're not growing you're » uh because if you're not growing you're » uh because if you're not growing you're dying. Yeah. dying. Yeah. dying. Yeah. » You can't just stay stagnant. uh making » You can't just stay stagnant. uh making » You can't just stay stagnant. uh making sure that if you're buying an existing sure that if you're buying an existing sure that if you're buying an existing business that there's a good reputation business that there's a good reputation business that there's a good reputation that if anyone's going to stay there that if anyone's going to stay there that if anyone's going to stay there uh you know is that somebody do you like uh you know is that somebody do you like uh you know is that somebody do you like the culture of the business cuz if you the culture of the business cuz if you the culture of the business cuz if you don't like the culture when you walk in don't like the culture when you walk in don't like the culture when you walk in I would walk in and I would be secret I would walk in and I would be secret I would walk in and I would be secret shopping them over and over and over and shopping them over and over and over and shopping them over and over and over and calling them on the phone and maybe calling them on the phone and maybe calling them on the phone and maybe getting a little indignant on the phone getting a little indignant on the phone getting a little indignant on the phone that hey you need an answer now just to that hey you need an answer now just to that hey you need an answer now just to see how their people because they're not see how their people because they're not see how their people because they're not going to change once you get in there. going to change once you get in there. going to change once you get in there. So, So, So, » if you're looking to buy something, we » if you're looking to buy something, we » if you're looking to buy something, we have bought a few different businesses have bought a few different businesses have bought a few different businesses » and uh they've fit our culture. We've » and uh they've fit our culture. We've » and uh they've fit our culture. We've been able to go in keep the people there been able to go in keep the people there been able to go in keep the people there and it's worked out pretty good for us. and it's worked out pretty good for us. and it's worked out pretty good for us. » Do you prefer to buy or start if you » Do you prefer to buy or start if you » Do you prefer to buy or start if you started over today? started over today? started over today? » So, » So, » So, » if you knew nothing, I should preface » if you knew nothing, I should preface » if you knew nothing, I should preface with that. I with that. I with that. I » I would say if you I if you know » I would say if you I if you know » I would say if you I if you know nothing, I don't know why you'd get in nothing, I don't know why you'd get in nothing, I don't know why you'd get in the business, but uh the business, but uh the business, but uh » Right. Right. Yeah, » Right. Right. Yeah, » Right. Right. Yeah, » but I I I think you know what you did » but I I I think you know what you did » but I I I think you know what you did again is a great success story. So I again is a great success story. So I again is a great success story. So I think if you can buy something that think if you can buy something that think if you can buy something that somebody's looking to get out, that's somebody's looking to get out, that's somebody's looking to get out, that's the other thing. If you can do where the other thing. If you can do where the other thing. If you can do where somebody would maybe hold the paper for somebody would maybe hold the paper for somebody would maybe hold the paper for you » at an interest rate over two or three or » at an interest rate over two or three or » at an interest rate over two or three or four years, I think that would be super four years, I think that would be super four years, I think that would be super easy way to get in with low capital, easy way to get in with low capital, easy way to get in with low capital, uh fairly low risk, but you can have a uh fairly low risk, but you can have a uh fairly low risk, but you can have a pretty good reward for that. So pretty good reward for that. So pretty good reward for that. So » yeah, it's good. Tim, you're awesome. » yeah, it's good. Tim, you're awesome. » yeah, it's good. Tim, you're awesome. Thanks so much for the time. I'm glad Thanks so much for the time. I'm glad Thanks so much for the time. I'm glad catching up with you. catching up with you. catching up with you. » All right, » All right, » All right, » let's get together soon. » let's get together soon. » let's get together soon. » All right, sounds great. Appreciate you. » All right, sounds great. Appreciate you. » All right, sounds great. Appreciate you. Bye. ---