Why the Resume Is Broken and What Comes Next with Jacob Schlittenhardt | Ep 72

Yeah, I had a mentor of mine who gave me Yeah, I had a mentor of mine who gave me probably the best advice probably the best advice probably the best advice I ever had. He told me uh when I asked I ever had. He told me uh when I asked I ever had. He told me uh when I asked like how do you be successful? And this like how do you be successful? And this like how do you be successful? And this is somebody who's extremely successful is somebody who's extremely successful is somebody who's extremely successful and built some extremely big and built some extremely big and built some extremely big companies and he was like you always companies and he was like you always companies and he was like you always just have to say yes. just have to say yes. just have to say yes. » That was his advice to me. He's like, » That was his advice to me. He's like, » That was his advice to me. He's like, "If you go through life and every time "If you go through life and every time "If you go through life and every time somebody says, "Can you," you just say, somebody says, "Can you," you just say, somebody says, "Can you," you just say, "Yes." And then if you don't know how, "Yes." And then if you don't know how, "Yes." And then if you don't know how, that's fine. You go figure out how to do that's fine. You go figure out how to do that's fine. You go figure out how to do it. The Killer Growth Podcast starts it. The Killer Growth Podcast starts it. The Killer Growth Podcast starts now. What's up guys? Sam McVey here with What's up guys? Sam McVey here with Killer Growth Podcast and today I have Killer Growth Podcast and today I have Killer Growth Podcast and today I have Jacob Schlittenheart. Jacob Schlittenheart. Jacob Schlittenheart. » Yeah, see you got it. I did it. I did » Yeah, see you got it. I did it. I did » Yeah, see you got it. I did it. I did it. Little practice here for two. No, it it. Little practice here for two. No, it it. Little practice here for two. No, it doesn't hurt at all. Um I just want to doesn't hurt at all. Um I just want to doesn't hurt at all. Um I just want to say that uh I have a mustache today just say that uh I have a mustache today just say that uh I have a mustache today just because of you. because of you. because of you. » Oh, thank you. » Oh, thank you. » Oh, thank you. » That's why I decided to wear mustache. » That's why I decided to wear mustache. » That's why I decided to wear mustache. » You do have one on. » You do have one on. » You do have one on. » Yeah, you can't see it. » Yeah, you can't see it. » Yeah, you can't see it. » You have binoculars. I'm just kidding. » You have binoculars. I'm just kidding. » You have binoculars. I'm just kidding. I'm really rude, man. Just I'm really rude, man. Just I'm really rude, man. Just kidding. kidding. kidding. » I'm going to cry a little bit. » I'm going to cry a little bit. » I'm going to cry a little bit. » I can see it. Uh, it is really hard. The » I can see it. Uh, it is really hard. The » I can see it. Uh, it is really hard. The red the red and the blonde. red the red and the blonde. red the red and the blonde. » The blonde hair. Yeah, it's it's subtle. » The blonde hair. Yeah, it's it's subtle. » The blonde hair. Yeah, it's it's subtle. Yeah. Now the tan hides it even more. Yeah. Now the tan hides it even more. Yeah. Now the tan hides it even more. Um, I actually didn't do it for you. I Um, I actually didn't do it for you. I Um, I actually didn't do it for you. I uh have a mustache when I go to Florida. uh have a mustache when I go to Florida. uh have a mustache when I go to Florida. It's just a thing I decided I'm going to It's just a thing I decided I'm going to It's just a thing I decided I'm going to do from now on. do from now on. do from now on. » Okay. » Okay. » Okay. » Two years running. » Two years running. » Two years running. » Yeah, I had » Yeah, I had » Yeah, I had » I know people are like Florida Stash. » I know people are like Florida Stash. » I know people are like Florida Stash. It's the Florida Stash. It's the Florida Stash. It's the Florida Stash. » Yeah. Well, I had it last year as kind » Yeah. Well, I had it last year as kind » Yeah. Well, I had it last year as kind of a on a whim and joke and then I was of a on a whim and joke and then I was of a on a whim and joke and then I was like I saw the old photo and we're going like I saw the old photo and we're going like I saw the old photo and we're going back to the same place again. Like, oh, back to the same place again. Like, oh, back to the same place again. Like, oh, I'm going to I need to shave anyway. I'm I'm going to I need to shave anyway. I'm I'm going to I need to shave anyway. I'm going to do a mustache. going to do a mustache. going to do a mustache. » Yeah, you should. I mean, if it gets you » Yeah, you should. I mean, if it gets you » Yeah, you should. I mean, if it gets you in the vibe, right? It does. That's I in the vibe, right? It does. That's I in the vibe, right? It does. That's I told Haley I'm like, I just need to told Haley I'm like, I just need to told Haley I'm like, I just need to switch up my look every once in a while, switch up my look every once in a while, switch up my look every once in a while, you know? It's good for my personality. you know? It's good for my personality. you know? It's good for my personality. » It is good. And uh I mean, I'm just » It is good. And uh I mean, I'm just » It is good. And uh I mean, I'm just jealous cuz it looks like you can jealous cuz it looks like you can jealous cuz it looks like you can actually grow like a full beard and I I actually grow like a full beard and I I actually grow like a full beard and I I can't grow anything else. can't grow anything else. can't grow anything else. » It's all right there. » It's all right there. » It's all right there. » Yeah. That's just I only have » Yeah. That's just I only have » Yeah. That's just I only have » I'm still pretty patchy. Uh it's very » I'm still pretty patchy. Uh it's very » I'm still pretty patchy. Uh it's very red. Like I mean it is orange when it red. Like I mean it is orange when it red. Like I mean it is orange when it comes in. Real red. So it uh I kind of I comes in. Real red. So it uh I kind of I comes in. Real red. So it uh I kind of I just get itchy. That's the hardest part. just get itchy. That's the hardest part. just get itchy. That's the hardest part. I tried a little bit. I tried a little bit. I tried a little bit. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And every time I kind of give up cuz I » And every time I kind of give up cuz I » And every time I kind of give up cuz I don't like how itchy it is. don't like how itchy it is. don't like how itchy it is. » Yeah. I I just grew a mustache because I » Yeah. I I just grew a mustache because I » Yeah. I I just grew a mustache because I needed to try to look older. needed to try to look older. needed to try to look older. » It looks good. » It looks good. » It looks good. » Um » Um » Um » and then now it's just my thing. » and then now it's just my thing. » and then now it's just my thing. Everyone like knows me by the Everyone like knows me by the Everyone like knows me by the chevron stash. So So where you going in chevron stash. So So where you going in chevron stash. So So where you going in Florida? Florida? Florida? We were in Destin. Just hung out. Yeah. We were in Destin. Just hung out. Yeah. We were in Destin. Just hung out. Yeah. Yeah. Just chilled. Yeah. Just chilled. Yeah. Just chilled. » Little vacation. » Little vacation. » Little vacation. » Little vacation. Love it. Hung out at » Little vacation. Love it. Hung out at » Little vacation. Love it. Hung out at the beach. Got a little sunburnt. Did the beach. Got a little sunburnt. Did the beach. Got a little sunburnt. Did better this year. I bought a sunshirt. better this year. I bought a sunshirt. better this year. I bought a sunshirt. That was a good investment. That was a good investment. That was a good investment. » Good. » Good. » Good. » Uh I've never had a sun shirt before. » Uh I've never had a sun shirt before. » Uh I've never had a sun shirt before. And you know, makes sense. I'm the type And you know, makes sense. I'm the type And you know, makes sense. I'm the type of skin type that should wear a of skin type that should wear a of skin type that should wear a sunshirt. sunshirt. sunshirt. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Freckles and ginger beard. » Freckles and ginger beard. » Freckles and ginger beard. » Emma and I just went on a little » Emma and I just went on a little » Emma and I just went on a little vacation as well over the weekend and uh vacation as well over the weekend and uh vacation as well over the weekend and uh we were laying out by the pool and I got we were laying out by the pool and I got we were laying out by the pool and I got real crispy. Um, which usually I I real crispy. Um, which usually I I real crispy. Um, which usually I I usually I tan pretty well, but sometimes usually I tan pretty well, but sometimes usually I tan pretty well, but sometimes if if if » the older I get, the less I do. I I feel » the older I get, the less I do. I I feel » the older I get, the less I do. I I feel like I like I like I » Is that what it is? Getting old. Is that » Is that what it is? Getting old. Is that » Is that what it is? Getting old. Is that » I just feel like now it's like every » I just feel like now it's like every » I just feel like now it's like every year I burn quicker. year I burn quicker. year I burn quicker. » I don't know. Something » I don't know. Something » I don't know. Something » something to look forward to. » something to look forward to. » something to look forward to. » Something. » Something. » Something. » It's okay. You're still really young. » It's okay. You're still really young. » It's okay. You're still really young. You'll be fine. All right. So, let's You'll be fine. All right. So, let's You'll be fine. All right. So, let's let's actually do a podcast here. Jacob, let's actually do a podcast here. Jacob, let's actually do a podcast here. Jacob, uh, you are the co-founder and CEO of uh, you are the co-founder and CEO of uh, you are the co-founder and CEO of Planetary Talent. Planetary Talent. Planetary Talent. » That is correct. Yeah. » That is correct. Yeah. » That is correct. Yeah. » We're going to go we're going to go back » We're going to go we're going to go back » We're going to go we're going to go back in time before that. Okay. in time before that. Okay. in time before that. Okay. » Um, you have background in design. Uh, I » Um, you have background in design. Uh, I » Um, you have background in design. Uh, I know some there's some kind of a spoiler know some there's some kind of a spoiler know some there's some kind of a spoiler alert from your wife, so there's some alert from your wife, so there's some alert from your wife, so there's some things I already know about you. things I already know about you. things I already know about you. » After Emma, well, you were you were » After Emma, well, you were you were » After Emma, well, you were you were homeschooled » and she was homeschooled and I was » and she was homeschooled and I was » and she was homeschooled and I was homeschooled, so that was Yeah. homeschooled, so that was Yeah. homeschooled, so that was Yeah. » funny. » funny. » funny. Go homeschoolers. Don't know what grade Go homeschoolers. Don't know what grade Go homeschoolers. Don't know what grade we were in, but we were schooling. we were in, but we were schooling. we were in, but we were schooling. » We were doing something. » We were doing something. » We were doing something. That was my favorite line. She said, That was my favorite line. She said, That was my favorite line. She said, she's like, I you know, I think I did she's like, I you know, I think I did she's like, I you know, I think I did like three years of high school. We like three years of high school. We like three years of high school. We don't know something. I did summer don't know something. I did summer don't know something. I did summer school like every summer. school like every summer. school like every summer. » Yeah. Bounced all around. Uh but yeah, » Yeah. Bounced all around. Uh but yeah, » Yeah. Bounced all around. Uh but yeah, give me give me a story. You go to give me give me a story. You go to give me give me a story. You go to college for entrepreneurship. Yeah. college for entrepreneurship. Yeah. college for entrepreneurship. Yeah. Well, kind [clears throat] of Well, kind [clears throat] of Well, kind [clears throat] of unintentionally. Um I I originally unintentionally. Um I I originally unintentionally. Um I I originally graduated high school, you know, they do graduated high school, you know, they do graduated high school, you know, they do the videos and people are like, I'm the videos and people are like, I'm the videos and people are like, I'm going to go to be a doctor, right? Uh my going to go to be a doctor, right? Uh my going to go to be a doctor, right? Uh my thing was I wanted to go into thing was I wanted to go into thing was I wanted to go into advertising. So I thought, you know, advertising. So I thought, you know, advertising. So I thought, you know, advertising sounds fun. Um, I was going advertising sounds fun. Um, I was going advertising sounds fun. Um, I was going to go to Witchaw State and get a degree to go to Witchaw State and get a degree to go to Witchaw State and get a degree and then I got a scholarship and the and then I got a scholarship and the and then I got a scholarship and the scholarship was for entrepreneurship scholarship was for entrepreneurship scholarship was for entrepreneurship specifically. So I had to take an specifically. So I had to take an specifically. So I had to take an entrepreneurship degree. entrepreneurship degree. entrepreneurship degree. » Why did you get a scholarship for that? » Why did you get a scholarship for that? » Why did you get a scholarship for that? » Uh because I heard about it through the » Uh because I heard about it through the » Uh because I heard about it through the grapevine. I one of my friends older grapevine. I one of my friends older grapevine. I one of my friends older brothers had gotten the scholarship and brothers had gotten the scholarship and brothers had gotten the scholarship and uh it's the Franara scholarship which uh it's the Franara scholarship which uh it's the Franara scholarship which state. It's the largest endowment state. It's the largest endowment state. It's the largest endowment scholarship for entrepreneurship in the scholarship for entrepreneurship in the scholarship for entrepreneurship in the country at the time. I don't know if it country at the time. I don't know if it country at the time. I don't know if it still is. Um, so he I had heard about it still is. Um, so he I had heard about it still is. Um, so he I had heard about it from him and he was like, "You should from him and he was like, "You should from him and he was like, "You should apply. You'd be a good fit for this." apply. You'd be a good fit for this." apply. You'd be a good fit for this." And, uh, funny story, I actually got And, uh, funny story, I actually got And, uh, funny story, I actually got rejected for the scholarship. Uh, but I rejected for the scholarship. Uh, but I rejected for the scholarship. Uh, but I didn't know it. So, um, I just kept didn't know it. So, um, I just kept didn't know it. So, um, I just kept emailing them over and over and over emailing them over and over and over emailing them over and over and over again. And eventually, uh, word got up again. And eventually, uh, word got up again. And eventually, uh, word got up through the department and the head of through the department and the head of through the department and the head of the department was like, "This kid keeps the department was like, "This kid keeps the department was like, "This kid keeps emailing over and over." And like, emailing over and over." And like, emailing over and over." And like, "Yeah, we we've told him he's rejected." "Yeah, we we've told him he's rejected." "Yeah, we we've told him he's rejected." did, but I guess it just like kept going did, but I guess it just like kept going did, but I guess it just like kept going to spam. I didn't see it. Uh, and so to spam. I didn't see it. Uh, and so to spam. I didn't see it. Uh, and so he's like, "That's a that is an he's like, "That's a that is an he's like, "That's a that is an entrepreneurial trait. If there ever was entrepreneurial trait. If there ever was entrepreneurial trait. If there ever was one, put him back in the running." Um, one, put him back in the running." Um, one, put him back in the running." Um, and so I got back in the running. and so I got back in the running. and so I got back in the running. » The fifth time you're denied. Stop » The fifth time you're denied. Stop » The fifth time you're denied. Stop emailing us. Then another call back from emailing us. Then another call back from emailing us. Then another call back from you. Just like, "Hey guys, still super you. Just like, "Hey guys, still super you. Just like, "Hey guys, still super excited to hear the results." excited to hear the results." excited to hear the results." » That was exactly what happened. » That was exactly what happened. » That was exactly what happened. » Complete denial. » Complete denial. » Complete denial. » And uh, finally they were like, "Okay, » And uh, finally they were like, "Okay, » And uh, finally they were like, "Okay, if you can write a paper by Friday, uh, if you can write a paper by Friday, uh, if you can write a paper by Friday, uh, which was like 48 hours, then we'll which was like 48 hours, then we'll which was like 48 hours, then we'll throw you in the semi-final, you know, throw you in the semi-final, you know, throw you in the semi-final, you know, pot or whatever." And I I did I got in pot or whatever." And I I did I got in pot or whatever." And I I did I got in the ne the next stage and then I the ne the next stage and then I the ne the next stage and then I ended up winning the scholarship. So um ended up winning the scholarship. So um ended up winning the scholarship. So um wild story, but because I won the wild story, but because I won the wild story, but because I won the scholarship, it was like nearly a full scholarship, it was like nearly a full scholarship, it was like nearly a full ride. I was like, I got to take the ride. I was like, I got to take the ride. I was like, I got to take the money and uh when So I was like, well, I money and uh when So I was like, well, I money and uh when So I was like, well, I guess I'll double major and I'll do guess I'll double major and I'll do guess I'll double major and I'll do entrepreneurship and then I'll do entrepreneurship and then I'll do entrepreneurship and then I'll do advertising and when I get done with advertising and when I get done with advertising and when I get done with school, I'll just forget all of that school, I'll just forget all of that school, I'll just forget all of that crazy entrepreneurship stuff and I'll crazy entrepreneurship stuff and I'll crazy entrepreneurship stuff and I'll say thanks for the check and I'll go do say thanks for the check and I'll go do say thanks for the check and I'll go do what I actually want to do. And uh what I actually want to do. And uh what I actually want to do. And uh somewhere along the way a lot of things somewhere along the way a lot of things somewhere along the way a lot of things started changing uh as I I was kind of started changing uh as I I was kind of started changing uh as I I was kind of in both programs which is a little bit in both programs which is a little bit in both programs which is a little bit unique. And so I I was doing all this unique. And so I I was doing all this unique. And so I I was doing all this advertising and um starting to learn advertising and um starting to learn advertising and um starting to learn like you know design and copywriting and like you know design and copywriting and like you know design and copywriting and uh then I was also in all these classes uh then I was also in all these classes uh then I was also in all these classes with entrepreneurs who are trying to with entrepreneurs who are trying to with entrepreneurs who are trying to build tech companies and trying to build tech companies and trying to build tech companies and trying to change the world and over time I was change the world and over time I was change the world and over time I was like that's more interesting than this. like that's more interesting than this. like that's more interesting than this. So, um, that's kind of how I ended up So, um, that's kind of how I ended up So, um, that's kind of how I ended up getting involved with entrepreneurs in getting involved with entrepreneurs in getting involved with entrepreneurs in the first place. the first place. the first place. » That's cool. So, uh, you finish college » That's cool. So, uh, you finish college » That's cool. So, uh, you finish college and then and then and then » you go right into advertising. No, » you go right into advertising. No, » you go right into advertising. No, » kind of, uh, a little bit. I I was, » kind of, uh, a little bit. I I was, » kind of, uh, a little bit. I I was, uh, as I was in college, I had an uh, as I was in college, I had an uh, as I was in college, I had an opportunity where a lot of my opportunity where a lot of my opportunity where a lot of my entrepreneurial friends who were entrepreneurial friends who were entrepreneurial friends who were starting companies, they had no money starting companies, they had no money starting companies, they had no money and they didn't know who to go to. Uh so and they didn't know who to go to. Uh so and they didn't know who to go to. Uh so they would come to me and say like Jacob they would come to me and say like Jacob they would come to me and say like Jacob you're you're in like the advertising you're you're in like the advertising you're you're in like the advertising program so can you help us out like we program so can you help us out like we program so can you help us out like we need a logo and you know we got to pick need a logo and you know we got to pick need a logo and you know we got to pick out colors and so uh that was my first out colors and so uh that was my first out colors and so uh that was my first like freelance stuff was in in college like freelance stuff was in in college like freelance stuff was in in college uh other people that were trying to uh other people that were trying to uh other people that were trying to found companies for their senior found companies for their senior found companies for their senior projects and whatever um and they'd projects and whatever um and they'd projects and whatever um and they'd come to me and ask me to to basically do come to me and ask me to to basically do come to me and ask me to to basically do branding. I didn't know branding was branding. I didn't know branding was branding. I didn't know branding was what they were asking me to do at the what they were asking me to do at the what they were asking me to do at the time. They were just like I was the only time. They were just like I was the only time. They were just like I was the only designish person they knew. Uh and so designish person they knew. Uh and so designish person they knew. Uh and so they would ask me to do that and I was they would ask me to do that and I was they would ask me to do that and I was like ah sure yeah I can figure it out. like ah sure yeah I can figure it out. like ah sure yeah I can figure it out. And um that was when I realized that And um that was when I realized that And um that was when I realized that there was a big difference between what there was a big difference between what there was a big difference between what I was being taught in the advertising I was being taught in the advertising I was being taught in the advertising and marketing program where they were and marketing program where they were and marketing program where they were trying to teach us about like ad trying to teach us about like ad trying to teach us about like ad campaigns and things like that and what campaigns and things like that and what campaigns and things like that and what these startups actually needed. They these startups actually needed. They these startups actually needed. They didn't they didn't need didn't they didn't need didn't they didn't need a Facebook campaign. They didn't need me a Facebook campaign. They didn't need me a Facebook campaign. They didn't need me to write 800 headlines to find the best to write 800 headlines to find the best to write 800 headlines to find the best magazine headline for their print ad. It magazine headline for their print ad. It magazine headline for their print ad. It just it so it kind of broke my brain a just it so it kind of broke my brain a just it so it kind of broke my brain a little bit when I started actually little bit when I started actually little bit when I started actually working with them and they're like, "We working with them and they're like, "We working with them and they're like, "We need a logo and a color palette and then need a logo and a color palette and then need a logo and a color palette and then a website and a pitch deck, right?" Um a website and a pitch deck, right?" Um a website and a pitch deck, right?" Um and so I started getting into the and so I started getting into the and so I started getting into the world of branding through that cuz I was world of branding through that cuz I was world of branding through that cuz I was applying some of the stuff I was applying some of the stuff I was applying some of the stuff I was learning, but then I was also realizing learning, but then I was also realizing learning, but then I was also realizing that there was a huge gap in my own that there was a huge gap in my own that there was a huge gap in my own knowledge. knowledge. knowledge. started doing more projects with the more fun if I could be on that side of more fun if I could be on that side of the table. Uh cuz I'm kind of helping the table. Uh cuz I'm kind of helping the table. Uh cuz I'm kind of helping them navigate, you know, their startup and navigate, you know, their startup and navigate, you know, their startup and change the world, but they're the ones change the world, but they're the ones change the world, but they're the ones actually trying to like change the world actually trying to like change the world actually trying to like change the world and invent something new. And so, um, I and invent something new. And so, um, I and invent something new. And so, um, I did a couple of like branding for some did a couple of like branding for some did a couple of like branding for some equity deals and kind of like kept my equity deals and kind of like kept my equity deals and kind of like kept my fingers a little bit involved in the fingers a little bit involved in the fingers a little bit involved in the project as it moved along. And, um, but project as it moved along. And, um, but project as it moved along. And, um, but I always felt a little bit like I was in I always felt a little bit like I was in I always felt a little bit like I was in the tavern and they were like travelers the tavern and they were like travelers the tavern and they were like travelers coming through and I would like help coming through and I would like help coming through and I would like help them and equip them and send them on them and equip them and send them on them and equip them and send them on their way and then maybe even walk like their way and then maybe even walk like their way and then maybe even walk like to the edge of town with them. But then to the edge of town with them. But then to the edge of town with them. But then at some point I had to like release them at some point I had to like release them at some point I had to like release them into the wild and they kept on going on into the wild and they kept on going on into the wild and they kept on going on their fun adventure and I was still their fun adventure and I was still their fun adventure and I was still sitting back and so uh the more I sitting back and so uh the more I sitting back and so uh the more I had that experience the more I was like had that experience the more I was like had that experience the more I was like you know what I think I want to go on you know what I think I want to go on you know what I think I want to go on that adventure too. that adventure too. that adventure too. » Yeah. Uh before we go into that » Yeah. Uh before we go into that » Yeah. Uh before we go into that adventure uh you started like what was adventure uh you started like what was adventure uh you started like what was were do you have an artistic background? were do you have an artistic background? were do you have an artistic background? Did you just jump straight into Did you just jump straight into Did you just jump straight into Illustrator Adobe products? Illustrator Adobe products? Illustrator Adobe products? » I uh I hated art. I was always awful at » I uh I hated art. I was always awful at » I uh I hated art. I was always awful at it. I was I was never good at drawing. it. I was I was never good at drawing. it. I was I was never good at drawing. Um it I really fell in love with uh Um it I really fell in love with uh Um it I really fell in love with uh design through kind of just trial and design through kind of just trial and design through kind of just trial and error. And I still do everything in error. And I still do everything in error. And I still do everything in Illustrator. Illustrator. Illustrator. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Or Figma or like another design software » Or Figma or like another design software » Or Figma or like another design software more so than like sketching. Like some more so than like sketching. Like some more so than like sketching. Like some designers are really good at sketching designers are really good at sketching designers are really good at sketching and they'll like sketch out logos and they'll like sketch out logos and they'll like sketch out logos and stuff. I can't do that. Yeah. I'm not stuff. I can't do that. Yeah. I'm not stuff. I can't do that. Yeah. I'm not good at that. Um good at that. Um good at that. Um » but very much just like trial and error. » but very much just like trial and error. » but very much just like trial and error. I basically typed into Google like where I basically typed into Google like where I basically typed into Google like where to design a logo and Google was like to design a logo and Google was like to design a logo and Google was like Adobe Illustrator and I was Adobe Illustrator and I was Adobe Illustrator and I was like okay I have to I guess I have to like okay I have to I guess I have to like okay I have to I guess I have to get Adobe Illustrator. Um and so get Adobe Illustrator. Um and so get Adobe Illustrator. Um and so that's how I started and lot of YouTube that's how I started and lot of YouTube that's how I started and lot of YouTube videos which is one of the reasons why videos which is one of the reasons why videos which is one of the reasons why um I posted some on YouTube and like um I posted some on YouTube and like um I posted some on YouTube and like tried to build a little bit of a channel tried to build a little bit of a channel tried to build a little bit of a channel there was mostly just me trying to like there was mostly just me trying to like there was mostly just me trying to like give back to the community that I felt give back to the community that I felt give back to the community that I felt like it helped me so much. Uh, but I like it helped me so much. Uh, but I like it helped me so much. Uh, but I think design is very principlebased, a think design is very principlebased, a think design is very principlebased, a lot more so than art. Art's a lot is lot more so than art. Art's a lot is lot more so than art. Art's a lot is very subjective, but when it comes to very subjective, but when it comes to very subjective, but when it comes to design, there's just certain things that design, there's just certain things that design, there's just certain things that work and certain things that don't work. work and certain things that don't work. work and certain things that don't work. And you have to learn the rules and then And you have to learn the rules and then And you have to learn the rules and then you play within the rules of the game. you play within the rules of the game. you play within the rules of the game. Um, and that it's knowing the rules Um, and that it's knowing the rules Um, and that it's knowing the rules and knowing when to break the rules and knowing when to break the rules and knowing when to break the rules and how that makes design interesting and how that makes design interesting and how that makes design interesting and good because you're trying to build good because you're trying to build good because you're trying to build something that is functional. something that is functional. something that is functional. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. and tells a story and is » Yeah. and tells a story and is » Yeah. and tells a story and is memorable. There's a I think that part memorable. There's a I think that part memorable. There's a I think that part it sounds like you're also kind of it sounds like you're also kind of it sounds like you're also kind of fascinated with like fascinated with like fascinated with like » absolutely » absolutely » absolutely » but it's not just uh okay this looks » but it's not just uh okay this looks » but it's not just uh okay this looks okay. okay. okay. » Yeah. And it's not it's it's different » Yeah. And it's not it's it's different » Yeah. And it's not it's it's different than art in the form of like a lot of than art in the form of like a lot of than art in the form of like a lot of times an art an artist will create times an art an artist will create times an art an artist will create something that they like and it's just something that they like and it's just something that they like and it's just it all it has to do is is be their it all it has to do is is be their it all it has to do is is be their expression, right? And design's a little expression, right? And design's a little expression, right? And design's a little different than that. I can't just create different than that. I can't just create different than that. I can't just create what I like. I have to also take into what I like. I have to also take into what I like. I have to also take into account like all these other factors and account like all these other factors and account like all these other factors and then create something that's going to then create something that's going to then create something that's going to work in all of the different facets of work in all of the different facets of work in all of the different facets of how they're going to need to use the how they're going to need to use the how they're going to need to use the brand. So that was always what in what brand. So that was always what in what brand. So that was always what in what that was the challenge that excited me that was the challenge that excited me that was the challenge that excited me about branding. about branding. about branding. » And then you were doing some web » And then you were doing some web » And then you were doing some web development along the way as well or development along the way as well or development along the way as well or design with Figma. design with Figma. design with Figma. » Yeah. I had a mentor of mine who gave me » Yeah. I had a mentor of mine who gave me » Yeah. I had a mentor of mine who gave me probably the best advice probably the best advice probably the best advice I ever had. He told me uh when I asked I ever had. He told me uh when I asked I ever had. He told me uh when I asked like how do you be successful and this like how do you be successful and this like how do you be successful and this is somebody who's extremely successful is somebody who's extremely successful is somebody who's extremely successful and built some extremely big and built some extremely big and built some extremely big companies and he was like you always companies and he was like you always companies and he was like you always just have to say yes. just have to say yes. just have to say yes. » That was his advice to me. He's like if » That was his advice to me. He's like if » That was his advice to me. He's like if you go through life and every time you go through life and every time you go through life and every time somebody says can you just say yes somebody says can you just say yes somebody says can you just say yes and then if you don't know how that's and then if you don't know how that's and then if you don't know how that's fine you go figure out how to do it fine you go figure out how to do it fine you go figure out how to do it because you already agreed to doing it. because you already agreed to doing it. because you already agreed to doing it. And um so I I was like it can't be that And um so I I was like it can't be that And um so I I was like it can't be that easy. Uh but I adopted that approach and easy. Uh but I adopted that approach and easy. Uh but I adopted that approach and it carried me all the way through to and it carried me all the way through to and it carried me all the way through to today and I still do that. Um so today and I still do that. Um so today and I still do that. Um so people would come to me ask if I could people would come to me ask if I could people would come to me ask if I could do a logo. I said yes. Then I went to do a logo. I said yes. Then I went to do a logo. I said yes. Then I went to Google. I typed in how to design a logo Google. I typed in how to design a logo Google. I typed in how to design a logo and I learned that I was supposed to use and I learned that I was supposed to use and I learned that I was supposed to use Illustrator and I watched some YouTube Illustrator and I watched some YouTube Illustrator and I watched some YouTube tutorials and the first ones I made were tutorials and the first ones I made were tutorials and the first ones I made were awful, right? But I said yes and I was awful, right? But I said yes and I was awful, right? But I said yes and I was going to figure it out. And then um going to figure it out. And then um going to figure it out. And then um after doing a logo and a color palette after doing a logo and a color palette after doing a logo and a color palette and then they would come back and say and then they would come back and say and then they would come back and say like, "Well, can you build me a website? like, "Well, can you build me a website? like, "Well, can you build me a website? You know, I need a pitch deck. Oh, the You know, I need a pitch deck. Oh, the You know, I need a pitch deck. Oh, the investors are asking for a mockup of the investors are asking for a mockup of the investors are asking for a mockup of the app we're going to build. Can you do UI app we're going to build. Can you do UI app we're going to build. Can you do UI design?" And I'm like, "Yes, yes, yes, design?" And I'm like, "Yes, yes, yes, design?" And I'm like, "Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes." The whole time not having any yes, yes." The whole time not having any yes, yes." The whole time not having any idea what I'm doing, just doing it. idea what I'm doing, just doing it. idea what I'm doing, just doing it. Sounds like a uh attribute that could Sounds like a uh attribute that could Sounds like a uh attribute that could really annoy a team uh at an really annoy a team uh at an really annoy a team uh at an organization. organization. organization. » Maybe I can't I'm not speaking from » Maybe I can't I'm not speaking from » Maybe I can't I'm not speaking from experience. I've never done that. I say experience. I've never done that. I say experience. I've never done that. I say no most of the time. no most of the time. no most of the time. » You have to surround yourself with the » You have to surround yourself with the » You have to surround yourself with the right people. Um, but right people. Um, but right people. Um, but » you also need the people to bring back » you also need the people to bring back » you also need the people to bring back bring you back to reality every once in bring you back to reality every once in bring you back to reality every once in a while. And god damn, that's we a while. And god damn, that's we a while. And god damn, that's we understand where you're coming from, but understand where you're coming from, but understand where you're coming from, but we can't do that. A little focus does go we can't do that. A little focus does go we can't do that. A little focus does go a long way and you have to there's some a long way and you have to there's some a long way and you have to there's some trade-offs there, but trade-offs there, but trade-offs there, but » but no, at the beginning, I love that. I » but no, at the beginning, I love that. I » but no, at the beginning, I love that. I mean, yeah, especially when you're just mean, yeah, especially when you're just mean, yeah, especially when you're just starting off in life, like just go learn starting off in life, like just go learn starting off in life, like just go learn and it's it's the uh sports principle and it's it's the uh sports principle and it's it's the uh sports principle when you're I think it's like six to 10 when you're I think it's like six to 10 when you're I think it's like six to 10 years old. Like, let them play years old. Like, let them play years old. Like, let them play everything. Don't don't let them zero in everything. Don't don't let them zero in everything. Don't don't let them zero in on one thing yet. And then after that, on one thing yet. And then after that, on one thing yet. And then after that, let them zero in on what they want, but let them zero in on what they want, but let them zero in on what they want, but like let them experience everything, the like let them experience everything, the like let them experience everything, the joy of everything, try new things, new joy of everything, try new things, new joy of everything, try new things, new challenges, and then see where they challenges, and then see where they challenges, and then see where they land. But yeah, that's awesome. Good land. But yeah, that's awesome. Good land. But yeah, that's awesome. Good advice. advice. advice. » Yeah, that's essentially how I end up » Yeah, that's essentially how I end up » Yeah, that's essentially how I end up where I am. So, just keep saying yes. where I am. So, just keep saying yes. where I am. So, just keep saying yes. So, so then you said yes and at what So, so then you said yes and at what So, so then you said yes and at what point did you say yes to something that point did you say yes to something that point did you say yes to something that turned into planetary talent? turned into planetary talent? turned into planetary talent? » Uh, well, before we get to planetary » Uh, well, before we get to planetary » Uh, well, before we get to planetary talent, I had my first kind of journey talent, I had my first kind of journey talent, I had my first kind of journey outside the Shire. Uh, outside the Shire. Uh, outside the Shire. Uh, the So, I got a call uh one day and the So, I got a call uh one day and the So, I got a call uh one day and it was an entrepreneur that I knew it was an entrepreneur that I knew it was an entrepreneur that I knew through the ecosystem and he was like, through the ecosystem and he was like, through the ecosystem and he was like, "Have you ever built a game?" Uh, and I "Have you ever built a game?" Uh, and I "Have you ever built a game?" Uh, and I was like, "No, but I can." Right? So, I was like, "No, but I can." Right? So, I was like, "No, but I can." Right? So, I said, "Yes." right? And he's said, "Yes." right? And he's said, "Yes." right? And he's like, uh, have you ever built a game? Is like, uh, have you ever built a game? Is like, uh, have you ever built a game? Is that something you think you could do? I that something you think you could do? I that something you think you could do? I was like, absolutely can do it. Um, had was like, absolutely can do it. Um, had was like, absolutely can do it. Um, had no idea. And so he wanted to start a a no idea. And so he wanted to start a a no idea. And so he wanted to start a a video game in the blockchain space. And video game in the blockchain space. And video game in the blockchain space. And everything in blockchain was like super everything in blockchain was like super everything in blockchain was like super frothy at the time. And he's like, well, frothy at the time. And he's like, well, frothy at the time. And he's like, well, I'm I'm building a team. Um, I want you I'm I'm building a team. Um, I want you I'm I'm building a team. Um, I want you to be my co-founder on this. I think you to be my co-founder on this. I think you to be my co-founder on this. I think you could be really good asset. And I was could be really good asset. And I was could be really good asset. And I was like, you know what? This is kind of my like, you know what? This is kind of my like, you know what? This is kind of my my invite to go on the journey. Yeah. my invite to go on the journey. Yeah. my invite to go on the journey. Yeah. And um uh you know the old adage that And um uh you know the old adage that And um uh you know the old adage that like stories only start in one of two like stories only start in one of two like stories only start in one of two ways. Either a stranger comes to town or ways. Either a stranger comes to town or ways. Either a stranger comes to town or the hero goes on an adventure. Like the hero goes on an adventure. Like the hero goes on an adventure. Like that's there's only two ways that every that's there's only two ways that every that's there's only two ways that every story begins. And so uh this I felt like story begins. And so uh this I felt like story begins. And so uh this I felt like this was my moment to this was my moment to this was my moment to » go on an adventure and see what was what » go on an adventure and see what was what » go on an adventure and see what was what was out there on so with so many other was out there on so with so many other was out there on so with so many other startups that I had tried to help along startups that I had tried to help along startups that I had tried to help along the way. Um, this was my opportunity to the way. Um, this was my opportunity to the way. Um, this was my opportunity to like go put my my money where my mouth like go put my my money where my mouth like go put my my money where my mouth was and my time where my mouth was and was and my time where my mouth was and was and my time where my mouth was and do that. And so, uh, we had, do that. And so, uh, we had, do that. And so, uh, we had, » uh, an incredible time. I mean, it » uh, an incredible time. I mean, it » uh, an incredible time. I mean, it » What was the game called? » What was the game called? » What was the game called? » It was called Duo. And, um, we were » It was called Duo. And, um, we were » It was called Duo. And, um, we were building, uh, well, we were building, uh, well, we were building, uh, well, we were building blockchain based, uh, game and also game blockchain based, uh, game and also game blockchain based, uh, game and also game infrastructure. Um, so that kind of came infrastructure. Um, so that kind of came infrastructure. Um, so that kind of came out of it. Uh, Cardano. out of it. Uh, Cardano. out of it. Uh, Cardano. » Okay. Yeah. Was Taves involved with » Okay. Yeah. Was Taves involved with » Okay. Yeah. Was Taves involved with that? that? that? » Taves was my co-founder. » Taves was my co-founder. » Taves was my co-founder. » Okay. Yeah. Did not know that. I'm like » Okay. Yeah. Did not know that. I'm like » Okay. Yeah. Did not know that. I'm like I know the name of this game. I'm pretty I know the name of this game. I'm pretty I know the name of this game. I'm pretty sure Jason was involved and the second sure Jason was involved and the second sure Jason was involved and the second you said Cardano, I'm like Jason had to you said Cardano, I'm like Jason had to you said Cardano, I'm like Jason had to be. be. be. » Yeah. Yeah. Jason was my co-founder. » Yeah. Yeah. Jason was my co-founder. » Yeah. Yeah. Jason was my co-founder. » I did not. That's awesome. Okay. » I did not. That's awesome. Okay. » I did not. That's awesome. Okay. » Yeah. So you probably know him. » Yeah. So you probably know him. » Yeah. So you probably know him. » Jason and I went to college at Butler » Jason and I went to college at Butler » Jason and I went to college at Butler together. We were on practicum theater. together. We were on practicum theater. together. We were on practicum theater. We go way back. Uh he's friends of mine, We go way back. Uh he's friends of mine, We go way back. Uh he's friends of mine, the Hatfields, mutual friends. So yeah, the Hatfields, mutual friends. So yeah, the Hatfields, mutual friends. So yeah, that's awesome. that's awesome. that's awesome. » Well, so yes. So Jason was the one who » Well, so yes. So Jason was the one who » Well, so yes. So Jason was the one who called me. Jason was the one who was called me. Jason was the one who was called me. Jason was the one who was like, "Can you build a game?" I said, like, "Can you build a game?" I said, like, "Can you build a game?" I said, "Yes." Um and uh that was like my first "Yes." Um and uh that was like my first "Yes." Um and uh that was like my first experience really like co-founding a experience really like co-founding a experience really like co-founding a startup that was we're trying to build startup that was we're trying to build startup that was we're trying to build something really innovative, something really innovative, something really innovative, something really different and um I just had so really different and um I just had so really different and um I just had so much fun. So uh I mean we ran hard for a much fun. So uh I mean we ran hard for a much fun. So uh I mean we ran hard for a little over a year and a half almost two little over a year and a half almost two little over a year and a half almost two years and then it crashed and burned as years and then it crashed and burned as years and then it crashed and burned as most startups do. Uh but it was the most startups do. Uh but it was the most startups do. Uh but it was the first time that I had like kind of left first time that I had like kind of left first time that I had like kind of left my little village and had ventured out my little village and had ventured out my little village and had ventured out into the world of startup life and was into the world of startup life and was into the world of startup life and was traveling around and um I was like this traveling around and um I was like this traveling around and um I was like this I think this is actually like my I think this is actually like my I think this is actually like my calling. Uh this is what I'm supposed to calling. Uh this is what I'm supposed to calling. Uh this is what I'm supposed to do. I really enjoy this and do. I really enjoy this and do. I really enjoy this and » got the bug. » got the bug. » got the bug. » I got the bug and entrepreneurship is » I got the bug and entrepreneurship is » I got the bug and entrepreneurship is just it's contagious. um especially I just it's contagious. um especially I just it's contagious. um especially I mean I think all entrepreneurship is mean I think all entrepreneurship is mean I think all entrepreneurship is contagious and I've you know had my contagious and I've you know had my contagious and I've you know had my hand in different companies throughout hand in different companies throughout hand in different companies throughout um my career but when specifically when um my career but when specifically when um my career but when specifically when you're trying to build like a high you're trying to build like a high you're trying to build like a high growth scaling venture there's just all growth scaling venture there's just all growth scaling venture there's just all kinds of new challenges every day is a kinds of new challenges every day is a kinds of new challenges every day is a different opportunity to solve a new different opportunity to solve a new different opportunity to solve a new challenge and um so I just got so challenge and um so I just got so challenge and um so I just got so addicted to it and then when it failed I addicted to it and then when it failed I addicted to it and then when it failed I was like okay now I've just got to like was like okay now I've just got to like was like okay now I've just got to like wait until I have the next opportunity wait until I have the next opportunity wait until I have the next opportunity Yeah. And so you're doing are you doing Yeah. And so you're doing are you doing Yeah. And so you're doing are you doing freelance this whole time? freelance this whole time? freelance this whole time? » Uh no. I let go of all of my freelance » Uh no. I let go of all of my freelance » Uh no. I let go of all of my freelance clients when I started working um with clients when I started working um with clients when I started working um with Jason on the startup. So I just got to a Jason on the startup. So I just got to a Jason on the startup. So I just got to a point where I was too busy working on point where I was too busy working on point where I was too busy working on that and I let all my startup uh all my that and I let all my startup uh all my that and I let all my startup uh all my clients go and went full-time and then clients go and went full-time and then clients go and went full-time and then it crashed and burned and I was like, it crashed and burned and I was like, it crashed and burned and I was like, "Well, this stinks. I should have kept "Well, this stinks. I should have kept "Well, this stinks. I should have kept some of my clients. some of my clients. some of my clients. » » So, so I ended up um we pulled the plug » So, so I ended up um we pulled the plug on that in December on that in December on that in December 23. 23. 23. And I think it was December or 22. And I think it was December or 22. And I think it was December or 22. December of 22. And so I entered December of 22. And so I entered December of 22. And so I entered Christmas and New Year's with no job, Christmas and New Year's with no job, Christmas and New Year's with no job, » no income. » no income. » no income. » Uh we just bought a house. Uh, » Uh we just bought a house. Uh, » Uh we just bought a house. Uh, and it was, you know, some businesses and it was, you know, some businesses and it was, you know, some businesses kind of die slowly. This was very much kind of die slowly. This was very much kind of die slowly. This was very much like a house of cards situation. It was like a house of cards situation. It was like a house of cards situation. It was like there today, gone tomorrow. like there today, gone tomorrow. like there today, gone tomorrow. » I remember that. » I remember that. » I remember that. » Um, » Um, » Um, and so 2023 was an awful year for me. and so 2023 was an awful year for me. and so 2023 was an awful year for me. » Uh, and I start out the year like, okay, » Uh, and I start out the year like, okay, » Uh, and I start out the year like, okay, I'll just do the normal thing that I'll just do the normal thing that I'll just do the normal thing that everyone does and go get a job, right? everyone does and go get a job, right? everyone does and go get a job, right? Like that's that's super easy. You just Like that's that's super easy. You just Like that's that's super easy. You just go get a job when you fail. and I put go get a job when you fail. and I put go get a job when you fail. and I put out over a thousand job applications and out over a thousand job applications and out over a thousand job applications and I couldn't get a job. Um, and it was my I couldn't get a job. Um, and it was my I couldn't get a job. Um, and it was my first time applying for jobs post Chad first time applying for jobs post Chad first time applying for jobs post Chad GBT and really my first time, you know, GBT and really my first time, you know, GBT and really my first time, you know, post college cuz I was kind of post college cuz I was kind of post college cuz I was kind of freelancing right out of college. freelancing right out of college. freelancing right out of college. » And uh, I was it was a miserable and » And uh, I was it was a miserable and » And uh, I was it was a miserable and dehumanizing experience. I was dehumanizing experience. I was dehumanizing experience. I was depressed. um I didn't know what to do depressed. um I didn't know what to do depressed. um I didn't know what to do and that was that was the first and that was that was the first and that was that was the first time I was on that side of the table of time I was on that side of the table of time I was on that side of the table of the hiring problem. So there's some the hiring problem. So there's some the hiring problem. So there's some through threads there uh to planetary through threads there uh to planetary through threads there uh to planetary talent » and um yeah that was that was rough. » and um yeah that was that was rough. » and um yeah that was that was rough. » Yeah. So you get through 23. » Yeah. So you get through 23. » Yeah. So you get through 23. » So I got » So I got » So I got » and did you ever get a job by the way? » and did you ever get a job by the way? » and did you ever get a job by the way? » I never got I never got a job. I I ended » I never got I never got a job. I I ended » I never got I never got a job. I I ended up getting um I got an offer to uh run a up getting um I got an offer to uh run a up getting um I got an offer to uh run a contract for a company out in LA that contract for a company out in LA that contract for a company out in LA that weirdly enough came through LinkedIn. weirdly enough came through LinkedIn. weirdly enough came through LinkedIn. » And like they sourced me. So a thousand » And like they sourced me. So a thousand » And like they sourced me. So a thousand job applications and not one of them job applications and not one of them job applications and not one of them turned into a job offer, but somebody turned into a job offer, but somebody turned into a job offer, but somebody else sourced me cold sourced me. Um else sourced me cold sourced me. Um else sourced me cold sourced me. Um and I it was I actually thought it was and I it was I actually thought it was and I it was I actually thought it was spam uh at first. I didn't respond for spam uh at first. I didn't respond for spam uh at first. I didn't respond for like a week. Anyway, um so I got this like a week. Anyway, um so I got this like a week. Anyway, um so I got this contract that turned into a full-time contract that turned into a full-time contract that turned into a full-time thing. Uh I was able to grow, you know, thing. Uh I was able to grow, you know, thing. Uh I was able to grow, you know, quickly with that organization as they quickly with that organization as they quickly with that organization as they were growing. And about a year after I were growing. And about a year after I were growing. And about a year after I was on the job market, uh I got put into on the job market, uh I got put into on the job market, uh I got put into charge of a new product initiative and charge of a new product initiative and charge of a new product initiative and they were like, "Okay, you need to go they were like, "Okay, you need to go they were like, "Okay, you need to go build a team. Um who do you need? I've build a team. Um who do you need? I've build a team. Um who do you need? I've built a plan." I was like, "I need these built a plan." I was like, "I need these built a plan." I was like, "I need these 10 people, right? These are the butts 10 people, right? These are the butts 10 people, right? These are the butts and the seats that I need to go build and the seats that I need to go build and the seats that I need to go build this product." And they were like, "All this product." And they were like, "All this product." And they were like, "All right, go hire them. Get them ready in right, go hire them. Get them ready in right, go hire them. Get them ready in four weeks." And I was like, "What am I four weeks." And I was like, "What am I four weeks." And I was like, "What am I supposed to do?" So, here I am on the supposed to do?" So, here I am on the supposed to do?" So, here I am on the other side of the table. other side of the table. other side of the table. » All right. » All right. » All right. » And uh I have I'm like, I guess I, you » And uh I have I'm like, I guess I, you » And uh I have I'm like, I guess I, you know, put out a post on LinkedIn and, know, put out a post on LinkedIn and, know, put out a post on LinkedIn and, you know, slap something up on Indeed you know, slap something up on Indeed you know, slap something up on Indeed and uh immediately I'm getting 800 and uh immediately I'm getting 800 and uh immediately I'm getting 800 résumés and all of their resumes are résumés and all of their resumes are résumés and all of their resumes are like written by ChatGpt with the job like written by ChatGpt with the job like written by ChatGpt with the job description. So, they look exactly the description. So, they look exactly the description. So, they look exactly the same. It's like 800 carbon copies of the same. It's like 800 carbon copies of the same. It's like 800 carbon copies of the exact same thing, exact same thing, exact same thing, » right? » right? » right? » And uh that was when I realized I was » And uh that was when I realized I was » And uh that was when I realized I was like, "Oh, like, "Oh, like, "Oh, I thought I was being clever a year ago I thought I was being clever a year ago I thought I was being clever a year ago because I'm like, I'm I have the best because I'm like, I'm I have the best because I'm like, I'm I have the best applications. I run my resume through applications. I run my resume through applications. I run my resume through Chad GBT every time. Get it tailored Chad GBT every time. Get it tailored Chad GBT every time. Get it tailored specifically for the job description, specifically for the job description, specifically for the job description, not ever considering that everyone else not ever considering that everyone else not ever considering that everyone else is doing the same thing. And thus is doing the same thing. And thus is doing the same thing. And thus everything looks the same. And what are everything looks the same. And what are everything looks the same. And what are you supposed to do with that? you like I you supposed to do with that? you like I you supposed to do with that? you like I I zip file it, dump it in chat GPT and I zip file it, dump it in chat GPT and I zip file it, dump it in chat GPT and like you know who should I interview and like you know who should I interview and like you know who should I interview and chat GPT loves them all, chat GPT loves them all, chat GPT loves them all, » right? » right? » right? » So you're like what is what » So you're like what is what » So you're like what is what is going on? Um is going on? Um is going on? Um » oo I I I designed all of these. » oo I I I designed all of these. » oo I I I designed all of these. » Yeah. They're like wow these are all » Yeah. They're like wow these are all » Yeah. They're like wow these are all perfect. Every candidate is a perfect. Every candidate is a perfect. Every candidate is a perfect fit for your role. Um and fit for your role. Um and fit for your role. Um and that was when I realized like this whole that was when I realized like this whole that was when I realized like this whole system of how we go about finding and system of how we go about finding and system of how we go about finding and hiring people uh is is broken now. And hiring people uh is is broken now. And hiring people uh is is broken now. And there the 8 1/2 by 11 in piece there the 8 1/2 by 11 in piece there the 8 1/2 by 11 in piece of paper that we keep passing back and of paper that we keep passing back and of paper that we keep passing back and forth is this archaic system that has forth is this archaic system that has forth is this archaic system that has not changed since practically the Middle not changed since practically the Middle not changed since practically the Middle Ages. It's like I go I write a letter of Ages. It's like I go I write a letter of Ages. It's like I go I write a letter of what I'm looking for and I go pin it in what I'm looking for and I go pin it in what I'm looking for and I go pin it in the town square and then I hope people the town square and then I hope people the town square and then I hope people write me letters back. It's like that's write me letters back. It's like that's write me letters back. It's like that's insane. insane. insane. » Jeez. Um, and so I started noodling on » Jeez. Um, and so I started noodling on » Jeez. Um, and so I started noodling on planetary talent with a mentor of mine, planetary talent with a mentor of mine, planetary talent with a mentor of mine, uh, kind of in the midst of that. Uh, uh, kind of in the midst of that. Uh, uh, kind of in the midst of that. Uh, because I just resorted to random because I just resorted to random because I just resorted to random sampling, just random sampling to try to sampling, just random sampling to try to sampling, just random sampling to try to find people and then ghost the rest. find people and then ghost the rest. find people and then ghost the rest. » Uh, and I was doing all the things » Uh, and I was doing all the things » Uh, and I was doing all the things that I was so angry that employers were that I was so angry that employers were that I was so angry that employers were doing to me just one year prior. doing to me just one year prior. doing to me just one year prior. » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. I'm the problem. It's me. I'm the problem. It's me. I'm the problem. It's me. Here we are. And I realized too, it's Here we are. And I realized too, it's Here we are. And I realized too, it's like this sucks for both parties, like this sucks for both parties, like this sucks for both parties, » right? Oh, yeah. No, it's miserable. I » right? Oh, yeah. No, it's miserable. I » right? Oh, yeah. No, it's miserable. I I've only, you know, so I' I'd never I've only, you know, so I' I'd never I've only, you know, so I' I'd never really had I had a real job, but I never really had I had a real job, but I never really had I had a real job, but I never had to go through that process. So, had to go through that process. So, had to go through that process. So, right out of college, I got a job right out of college, I got a job right out of college, I got a job because the guy went to my church, because the guy went to my church, because the guy went to my church, right? And then and it was a good job. right? And then and it was a good job. right? And then and it was a good job. Uh but my application process was fill Uh but my application process was fill Uh but my application process was fill out the application and then he grabbed out the application and then he grabbed out the application and then he grabbed it and put it in a folder and goes, it and put it in a folder and goes, it and put it in a folder and goes, "When would you like to start?" You "When would you like to start?" You "When would you like to start?" You know, he's like, "Oh, that's know, he's like, "Oh, that's know, he's like, "Oh, that's nice." Like referrals are nice, you nice." Like referrals are nice, you nice." Like referrals are nice, you know, and that's kind of how the system know, and that's kind of how the system know, and that's kind of how the system kind of gets rigged too is that it's who kind of gets rigged too is that it's who kind of gets rigged too is that it's who you know you know you know » and then you walk into a place. So, how » and then you walk into a place. So, how » and then you walk into a place. So, how do you stand out? And preai, I would do you stand out? And preai, I would do you stand out? And preai, I would agree it probably was easier. agree it probably was easier. agree it probably was easier. » Well, the system was built for that type » Well, the system was built for that type » Well, the system was built for that type of a thing, right? So, I mean, if you're of a thing, right? So, I mean, if you're of a thing, right? So, I mean, if you're if you're living in a small town and if you're living in a small town and if you're living in a small town and you're a blacksmith and you're looking you're a blacksmith and you're looking you're a blacksmith and you're looking for your next blacksmith apprentice, for your next blacksmith apprentice, for your next blacksmith apprentice, » it you get, you know, you put that out » it you get, you know, you put that out » it you get, you know, you put that out there, you get a handful of, you know, there, you get a handful of, you know, there, you get a handful of, you know, people that are interested. You kind of people that are interested. You kind of people that are interested. You kind of filter through it. You're like, "Oh, you filter through it. You're like, "Oh, you filter through it. You're like, "Oh, you know, Timmy and Susan's kid, I know I know, Timmy and Susan's kid, I know I know, Timmy and Susan's kid, I know I know him." Like, you know, I'll make him know him." Like, you know, I'll make him know him." Like, you know, I'll make him my apprentice. my apprentice. my apprentice. um that system works for a small number um that system works for a small number um that system works for a small number of of people, but we now have a global of of people, but we now have a global of of people, but we now have a global economy. Uh there's a global labor pool. economy. Uh there's a global labor pool. economy. Uh there's a global labor pool. There's remote work tools, so you can be There's remote work tools, so you can be There's remote work tools, so you can be anywhere. And uh the entire system anywhere. And uh the entire system anywhere. And uh the entire system starts to break down. And what I started starts to break down. And what I started starts to break down. And what I started thinking about a lot was if thinking about a lot was if thinking about a lot was if humans are ever going to scale as a humans are ever going to scale as a humans are ever going to scale as a civilization, civilization, civilization, we have to have a better system to find we have to have a better system to find we have to have a better system to find and collaborate with one another. Uh and collaborate with one another. Uh and collaborate with one another. Uh there's no way if there's a colony on there's no way if there's a colony on there's no way if there's a colony on the moon and a colony on Mars, we're the moon and a colony on Mars, we're the moon and a colony on Mars, we're sending 8 and 1 half by 11 in pieces of sending 8 and 1 half by 11 in pieces of sending 8 and 1 half by 11 in pieces of paper back and forth, paper back and forth, paper back and forth, » right? Yeah. No. Well, and you know, » right? Yeah. No. Well, and you know, » right? Yeah. No. Well, and you know, Upwork, like all those other freelance Upwork, like all those other freelance Upwork, like all those other freelance uh channels as well, I hate them. uh channels as well, I hate them. uh channels as well, I hate them. » Like I I think they from a management » Like I I think they from a management » Like I I think they from a management perspective now, the right personality perspective now, the right personality perspective now, the right personality and the right like if you understand and the right like if you understand and the right like if you understand what you're doing and you're focused on what you're doing and you're focused on what you're doing and you're focused on it, but it's just if you're a smaller it, but it's just if you're a smaller it, but it's just if you're a smaller operation, you're like, I got to go find operation, you're like, I got to go find operation, you're like, I got to go find someone here. I got to go put out a someone here. I got to go put out a someone here. I got to go put out a Fiverr gig. Um done that forever. Fiverr gig. Um done that forever. Fiverr gig. Um done that forever. » Put out a Fiverr gig. And you finally » Put out a Fiverr gig. And you finally » Put out a Fiverr gig. And you finally find one and then they obviously got find one and then they obviously got find one and then they obviously got poached by someone. and they disappear poached by someone. and they disappear poached by someone. and they disappear and they don't respond to their gigs and they don't respond to their gigs and they don't respond to their gigs anymore and their count goes obsolete. anymore and their count goes obsolete. anymore and their count goes obsolete. » Um but yeah, finding talent um » Um but yeah, finding talent um » Um but yeah, finding talent um » that's uh on on a global scale. How did » that's uh on on a global scale. How did » that's uh on on a global scale. How did you solve that? you solve that? you solve that? » Well, that's a big question. It sounds » Well, that's a big question. It sounds » Well, that's a big question. It sounds like maybe you're leading up to a like maybe you're leading up to a like maybe you're leading up to a moment, an epiphany. moment, an epiphany. moment, an epiphany. » Yeah, I think the epiphany, » Yeah, I think the epiphany, » Yeah, I think the epiphany, let me tell you the epiphany first and let me tell you the epiphany first and let me tell you the epiphany first and I'll tell you kind of how we solved it. I'll tell you kind of how we solved it. I'll tell you kind of how we solved it. So, uh, I went to Seattle Tech Startup So, uh, I went to Seattle Tech Startup So, uh, I went to Seattle Tech Startup Week and, uh, I was kind of Week and, uh, I was kind of Week and, uh, I was kind of » Why were you there? » Why were you there? » Why were you there? » Working, uh, for Planetary Talent. I was » Working, uh, for Planetary Talent. I was » Working, uh, for Planetary Talent. I was kind of working on the idea. Um, my kind of working on the idea. Um, my kind of working on the idea. Um, my co-founder Mark, he spent a lot of time co-founder Mark, he spent a lot of time co-founder Mark, he spent a lot of time in Seattle, has a lot of contacts there. in Seattle, has a lot of contacts there. in Seattle, has a lot of contacts there. Uh, we went out there on kind of like a Uh, we went out there on kind of like a Uh, we went out there on kind of like a customer discovery mission and we we we customer discovery mission and we we we customer discovery mission and we we we lined it up so that we were there with lined it up so that we were there with lined it up so that we were there with Seattle Tech Startup Week as well. And Seattle Tech Startup Week as well. And Seattle Tech Startup Week as well. And um so it was basically an exploratory um so it was basically an exploratory um so it was basically an exploratory trip and phase and uh so I was I went trip and phase and uh so I was I went trip and phase and uh so I was I went there and one of the sessions they had there and one of the sessions they had there and one of the sessions they had was called HR and AI and so um I'm was called HR and AI and so um I'm was called HR and AI and so um I'm obviously in the space of like you know obviously in the space of like you know obviously in the space of like you know trying to figure this out. We didn't trying to figure this out. We didn't trying to figure this out. We didn't really we did not have our product. We really we did not have our product. We really we did not have our product. We didn't have a solution to this. It was didn't have a solution to this. It was didn't have a solution to this. It was we were very much in the like there's a we were very much in the like there's a we were very much in the like there's a problem here and we're entrepreneurial problem here and we're entrepreneurial problem here and we're entrepreneurial people so let's see let's just like mess people so let's see let's just like mess people so let's see let's just like mess around in the muck and the mire and around in the muck and the mire and around in the muck and the mire and see if we can figure out what's see if we can figure out what's see if we can figure out what's going on here. Um which I think is how going on here. Um which I think is how going on here. Um which I think is how you have to start if you're going to be you have to start if you're going to be you have to start if you're going to be an entrepreneur. You have to just like an entrepreneur. You have to just like an entrepreneur. You have to just like get into the dirty gritty problem and get into the dirty gritty problem and get into the dirty gritty problem and see what you can unpack. So I went to see what you can unpack. So I went to see what you can unpack. So I went to this session and I'm expecting to this session and I'm expecting to this session and I'm expecting to be like blown away. I I because I these be like blown away. I I because I these be like blown away. I I because I these are this is Seattle. There's a ton of are this is Seattle. There's a ton of are this is Seattle. There's a ton of tech startups here. Um the panelists tech startups here. Um the panelists tech startups here. Um the panelists there were there were you know former there were there were you know former there were there were you know former Microsoft and Amazon and like they're Microsoft and Amazon and like they're Microsoft and Amazon and like they're building all these AI tech startups building all these AI tech startups building all these AI tech startups raised millions of dollars. And so I raised millions of dollars. And so I raised millions of dollars. And so I went like I sat in the front row sent went like I sat in the front row sent went like I sat in the front row sent dead center for this panel. I'm like dead center for this panel. I'm like dead center for this panel. I'm like there notebook open ready to take notes there notebook open ready to take notes there notebook open ready to take notes ready to learn. And about 30 minutes ready to learn. And about 30 minutes ready to learn. And about 30 minutes into the panel I just I can't help but into the panel I just I can't help but into the panel I just I can't help but feel really let down inside. And I feel really let down inside. And I feel really let down inside. And I couldn't put my finger on it. like couldn't put my finger on it. like couldn't put my finger on it. like something was just not there. something was just not there. something was just not there. » Was it because they started with how to » Was it because they started with how to » Was it because they started with how to build a resume with Jad GBT? build a resume with Jad GBT? build a resume with Jad GBT? » So that was when I kind of realized it. » So that was when I kind of realized it. » So that was when I kind of realized it. Somebody in the audience in they had Somebody in the audience in they had Somebody in the audience in they had an open Q&A how you know cuz I half an open Q&A how you know cuz I half an open Q&A how you know cuz I half panel half Q&A. Somebody in the audience panel half Q&A. Somebody in the audience panel half Q&A. Somebody in the audience was like um how are you how is your was like um how are you how is your was like um how are you how is your system that you've built? Uh cuz they system that you've built? Uh cuz they system that you've built? Uh cuz they had like kind of an ATS system like had like kind of an ATS system like had like kind of an ATS system like applicant tracking system. Uh they're applicant tracking system. Uh they're applicant tracking system. Uh they're like, "How is that handling everybody like, "How is that handling everybody like, "How is that handling everybody who's writing their resumes with chat who's writing their resumes with chat who's writing their resumes with chat GPT?" Right? And the guy starts giving GPT?" Right? And the guy starts giving GPT?" Right? And the guy starts giving this long spiel about how his AI looks this long spiel about how his AI looks this long spiel about how his AI looks at their AI resumes and like the AI does at their AI resumes and like the AI does at their AI resumes and like the AI does this and that and like and I just as I this and that and like and I just as I this and that and like and I just as I was sitting there listening to this was sitting there listening to this was sitting there listening to this answer, it's kind of droning on. I I had answer, it's kind of droning on. I I had answer, it's kind of droning on. I I had this epiphany of like, oh my gosh, this epiphany of like, oh my gosh, this epiphany of like, oh my gosh, this is such a stupid system. like we have is such a stupid system. like we have is such a stupid system. like we have just taken our existing system and we just taken our existing system and we just taken our existing system and we bolted AI on top of the bolted AI on top of the bolted AI on top of the » already pre-existing infrastructure. So » already pre-existing infrastructure. So » already pre-existing infrastructure. So they were all talking about like they were all talking about like they were all talking about like the resume, how optimized the job resume, how optimized the job resume, how optimized the job description with AI and then this thing description with AI and then this thing description with AI and then this thing reads the resume that's optimized by AI reads the resume that's optimized by AI reads the resume that's optimized by AI and AI reads both of them. And I'm like and AI reads both of them. And I'm like and AI reads both of them. And I'm like what are we doing? like your AI, you use what are we doing? like your AI, you use what are we doing? like your AI, you use AI to read a resume to put out on the AI to read a resume to put out on the AI to read a resume to put out on the system that the person uses to make system that the person uses to make system that the person uses to make their resume with AI to submit it to their resume with AI to submit it to their resume with AI to submit it to then be scored by AI. Like I I there has then be scored by AI. Like I I there has then be scored by AI. Like I I there has to be a better way. And that was the to be a better way. And that was the to be a better way. And that was the epiphany that I had was like sitting in epiphany that I had was like sitting in epiphany that I had was like sitting in there realizing that everybody is just there realizing that everybody is just there realizing that everybody is just building on top of existing building on top of existing building on top of existing infrastructure. And what we really infrastructure. And what we really infrastructure. And what we really needed to do was go back to first needed to do was go back to first needed to do was go back to first principles and deconstruct the principles and deconstruct the principles and deconstruct the infrastructure from the from the from infrastructure from the from the from infrastructure from the from the from the ground up and figure out like what the ground up and figure out like what the ground up and figure out like what is the core of how humans find and is the core of how humans find and is the core of how humans find and collaborate with other humans and then collaborate with other humans and then collaborate with other humans and then do we need these archaic do we need these archaic do we need these archaic tools of a resume and a job description tools of a resume and a job description tools of a resume and a job description or can there be something else? M or can there be something else? M or can there be something else? M » um and so where we ended up after a lot » um and so where we ended up after a lot » um and so where we ended up after a lot of experimentation was that uh hiring is of experimentation was that uh hiring is of experimentation was that uh hiring is essentially just a storytelling problem essentially just a storytelling problem essentially just a storytelling problem and it's how well can I get to know and it's how well can I get to know and it's how well can I get to know Samuel's story and how well can I get to Samuel's story and how well can I get to Samuel's story and how well can I get to know the company's story and the know the company's story and the know the company's story and the founder's story and then like where founder's story and then like where founder's story and then like where those stories start to align and mesh those stories start to align and mesh those stories start to align and mesh that's the magic and most people and that's the magic and most people and that's the magic and most people and most companies are really bad at telling most companies are really bad at telling most companies are really bad at telling their story but I have a background in their story but I have a background in their story but I have a background in branding. So, that's kind of my whole branding. So, that's kind of my whole branding. So, that's kind of my whole thing is like helping companies tell thing is like helping companies tell thing is like helping companies tell their story. Um, you know, I I've done a their story. Um, you know, I I've done a their story. Um, you know, I I've done a lot of work with personal branding and lot of work with personal branding and lot of work with personal branding and helping people kind of portray helping people kind of portray helping people kind of portray themselves. And, uh, so I realized that themselves. And, uh, so I realized that themselves. And, uh, so I realized that I was kind of in a unique position to I was kind of in a unique position to I was kind of in a unique position to try to rethink that. Um, and so our try to rethink that. Um, and so our try to rethink that. Um, and so our technology builds a data model off of technology builds a data model off of technology builds a data model off of the talent, the company, uh, the per the talent, the company, uh, the per the talent, the company, uh, the per the founders, and then those data models, we founders, and then those data models, we founders, and then those data models, we call digital replicas, can basically call digital replicas, can basically call digital replicas, can basically talk to each other, interface with each talk to each other, interface with each talk to each other, interface with each other to assess fit at scale. And that other to assess fit at scale. And that other to assess fit at scale. And that means it's no longer about getting means it's no longer about getting means it's no longer about getting everything about you into bullet points everything about you into bullet points everything about you into bullet points like the resume where it's like cut, like the resume where it's like cut, like the resume where it's like cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. But actually, we cut, cut, cut, cut. But actually, we cut, cut, cut, cut. But actually, we take the opposite approach and say, how take the opposite approach and say, how take the opposite approach and say, how do we amplify humanity? Get more do we amplify humanity? Get more do we amplify humanity? Get more information about you. And the more information about you. And the more information about you. And the more information we have about who you are information we have about who you are information we have about who you are and what you want to do and the things and what you want to do and the things and what you want to do and the things that you're proud of, the better we can that you're proud of, the better we can that you're proud of, the better we can find the right role for you. Is is that find the right role for you. Is is that find the right role for you. Is is that approach similar to a dating app where approach similar to a dating app where approach similar to a dating app where you're essentially trying to find you're essentially trying to find you're essentially trying to find attributes that align with culture more attributes that align with culture more attributes that align with culture more than I mean obviously skill sets are than I mean obviously skill sets are than I mean obviously skill sets are still have to be a part of it. Um, but still have to be a part of it. Um, but still have to be a part of it. Um, but it's I mean almost what you're it's I mean almost what you're it's I mean almost what you're describing to me is like here's I describing to me is like here's I describing to me is like here's I understand what your story is, your understand what your story is, your understand what your story is, your culture, how you guys interact, what culture, how you guys interact, what culture, how you guys interact, what you're like as a workplace, and I what you're like as a workplace, and I what you're like as a workplace, and I just found someone that's like kind of just found someone that's like kind of just found someone that's like kind of puts off those same vibes. puts off those same vibes. puts off those same vibes. » Yeah, » Yeah, » Yeah, » it sounds very uh which is cool. That's » it sounds very uh which is cool. That's » it sounds very uh which is cool. That's a cool way to deconstruct it. a cool way to deconstruct it. a cool way to deconstruct it. » I think it's an analogy people like to » I think it's an analogy people like to » I think it's an analogy people like to draw and it it's probably the best draw and it it's probably the best draw and it it's probably the best analogy for what we're building that analogy for what we're building that analogy for what we're building that exists. It's like um exists. It's like um exists. It's like um in branding, you know, it's like you a in branding, you know, it's like you a in branding, you know, it's like you a lot of times you're you say I'm like lot of times you're you say I'm like lot of times you're you say I'm like this thing but with this other thing. this thing but with this other thing. this thing but with this other thing. It's kind of that's probably the best It's kind of that's probably the best It's kind of that's probably the best analogy of like it's like dating app but analogy of like it's like dating app but analogy of like it's like dating app but uh but I think the difference uh but I think the difference uh but I think the difference there's there's a few key differences. there's there's a few key differences. there's there's a few key differences. Uh Uh Uh » dating apps » dating apps » dating apps » are incentivized not to find you they're » are incentivized not to find you they're » are incentivized not to find you they're incentivized to find you almost the incentivized to find you almost the incentivized to find you almost the right person. right person. right person. makes sense makes sense makes sense » because they lose they lose a customer. » because they lose they lose a customer. » because they lose they lose a customer. Uh whereas we're incentivized to Uh whereas we're incentivized to Uh whereas we're incentivized to actually find you the perfect person for actually find you the perfect person for actually find you the perfect person for that role because if we do that, we get that role because if we do that, we get that role because if we do that, we get you the right person, uh you are going you the right person, uh you are going you the right person, uh you are going to scale and then you're going to come to scale and then you're going to come to scale and then you're going to come back to us for more people and keep back to us for more people and keep back to us for more people and keep growing, right? So um there's a little growing, right? So um there's a little growing, right? So um there's a little bit of a difference in that like we are bit of a difference in that like we are bit of a difference in that like we are really trying to get you the right really trying to get you the right really trying to get you the right person and then like you said uh there person and then like you said uh there person and then like you said uh there is kind of hard requirements like we is kind of hard requirements like we is kind of hard requirements like we have to we have we're checking skills have to we have we're checking skills have to we have we're checking skills and alignment and compensation alignment and alignment and compensation alignment and alignment and compensation alignment and location alignment and all of those and location alignment and all of those and location alignment and all of those things along with the human story piece. things along with the human story piece. things along with the human story piece. Um so we kind of have to do both. Um, Um so we kind of have to do both. Um, Um so we kind of have to do both. Um, but I I would say dating apps especially but I I would say dating apps especially but I I would say dating apps especially was one of the things that we were was one of the things that we were was one of the things that we were looking at when we were like, how is looking at when we were like, how is looking at when we were like, how is it possible that there are apps on the it possible that there are apps on the it possible that there are apps on the marketplace leveraging technology that marketplace leveraging technology that marketplace leveraging technology that say we'll find your perfect say we'll find your perfect say we'll find your perfect lifemate, lifemate, lifemate, » right? And how is it possible that there » right? And how is it possible that there » right? And how is it possible that there are social media algorithms that put the are social media algorithms that put the are social media algorithms that put the exact next video that you're most likely exact next video that you're most likely exact next video that you're most likely to stay watching in your feed to stay watching in your feed to stay watching in your feed » and yet somehow in hiring it's a paper a » and yet somehow in hiring it's a paper a » and yet somehow in hiring it's a paper a piece of paper. piece of paper. piece of paper. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » So So break that down further. Uh that's » So So break that down further. Uh that's » So So break that down further. Uh that's a I mean that's a tough nut to crack a I mean that's a tough nut to crack a I mean that's a tough nut to crack depending on the person, the depending on the person, the depending on the person, the personality. Are you guys doing more personality. Are you guys doing more personality. Are you guys doing more than uh are you helping people find than uh are you helping people find than uh are you helping people find contractors and employees just one side contractors and employees just one side contractors and employees just one side of the aisle? Um because I think there's of the aisle? Um because I think there's of the aisle? Um because I think there's a lot of people that are also just a lot of people that are also just a lot of people that are also just looking for uh retainer contractors as looking for uh retainer contractors as looking for uh retainer contractors as well. well. well. » Yeah. So to go back to your point about » Yeah. So to go back to your point about » Yeah. So to go back to your point about Fiverr and Upwork, I actually think Fiverr and Upwork, I actually think Fiverr and Upwork, I actually think those tools they solve a need in those tools they solve a need in those tools they solve a need in the marketplace for this kind of like the marketplace for this kind of like the marketplace for this kind of like gig economy type work. gig economy type work. gig economy type work. » And so we're not really interested in » And so we're not really interested in » And so we're not really interested in trying to compete with them on that. I trying to compete with them on that. I trying to compete with them on that. I think they do a decent job solving that think they do a decent job solving that think they do a decent job solving that problem. problem. problem. » Um then on the other side of the » Um then on the other side of the » Um then on the other side of the equation you have kind of like executive equation you have kind of like executive equation you have kind of like executive recruiting uh bespoke you're looking for recruiting uh bespoke you're looking for recruiting uh bespoke you're looking for like seuite VPs where uh the person is like seuite VPs where uh the person is like seuite VPs where uh the person is going to come in and not only contribute going to come in and not only contribute going to come in and not only contribute to culture but they're going to to culture but they're going to to culture but they're going to contribute to the strategy and longevity contribute to the strategy and longevity contribute to the strategy and longevity of the company in a really key way. Uh of the company in a really key way. Uh of the company in a really key way. Uh that's also kind of its own thing where that's also kind of its own thing where that's also kind of its own thing where you need some really specialized people you need some really specialized people you need some really specialized people working on that. We do everything in the working on that. We do everything in the working on that. We do everything in the middle because in that middle ground middle because in that middle ground middle because in that middle ground what are your options as a founder? Post what are your options as a founder? Post what are your options as a founder? Post on LinkedIn, post on Indeed, Zip on LinkedIn, post on Indeed, Zip on LinkedIn, post on Indeed, Zip Recruiter like that. Those are that's Recruiter like that. Those are that's Recruiter like that. Those are that's it. That's your So there is nothing in it. That's your So there is nothing in it. That's your So there is nothing in the middle for finding um high quality, the middle for finding um high quality, the middle for finding um high quality, high affinity talent that will come and high affinity talent that will come and high affinity talent that will come and join your team and like join you on that join your team and like join you on that join your team and like join you on that mission full-time. Um so we don't do mission full-time. Um so we don't do mission full-time. Um so we don't do part-time. We don't uh well done we've part-time. We don't uh well done we've part-time. We don't uh well done we've done some part-time, but if it's like done some part-time, but if it's like done some part-time, but if it's like specifically like an ongoing part-time, specifically like an ongoing part-time, specifically like an ongoing part-time, but like no contract, no six-month but like no contract, no six-month but like no contract, no six-month contract, no fractional stuff. Um contract, no fractional stuff. Um contract, no fractional stuff. Um » you're looking for a team member. » you're looking for a team member. » you're looking for a team member. » We're looking for team members. So our » We're looking for team members. So our » We're looking for team members. So our sweet spot is like individual sweet spot is like individual sweet spot is like individual contributor. Um marketing, engineering, contributor. Um marketing, engineering, contributor. Um marketing, engineering, finance, like that type any type of finance, like that type any type of finance, like that type any type of role. We're pretty much agnostic to role. We're pretty much agnostic to role. We're pretty much agnostic to that. Our technology works across the that. Our technology works across the that. Our technology works across the board. Um, but we're trying to help board. Um, but we're trying to help board. Um, but we're trying to help these founders who are uh whenever we these founders who are uh whenever we these founders who are uh whenever we get them on the call, they're like, "Oh, get them on the call, they're like, "Oh, get them on the call, they're like, "Oh, if I just had a person who could help me if I just had a person who could help me if I just had a person who could help me do this and I needed them yesterday." do this and I needed them yesterday." do this and I needed them yesterday." That's that's what we do. And so, uh, we That's that's what we do. And so, uh, we That's that's what we do. And so, uh, we call our technology a hiring call our technology a hiring call our technology a hiring accelerator. The idea is help founders accelerator. The idea is help founders accelerator. The idea is help founders who are too busy who are too busy who are too busy » find the absolute perfect person for the » find the absolute perfect person for the » find the absolute perfect person for the job. Yeah. job. Yeah. job. Yeah. » And do it without any of the friction in » And do it without any of the friction in » And do it without any of the friction in the process so that they can find and the process so that they can find and the process so that they can find and hire that person. Um, that's the goal of hire that person. Um, that's the goal of hire that person. Um, that's the goal of planetary talent. planetary talent. planetary talent. » How much of planetary talent is » How much of planetary talent is » How much of planetary talent is technology versus human on the back end? technology versus human on the back end? technology versus human on the back end? » It's mostly technology. Um, and we're we » It's mostly technology. Um, and we're we » It's mostly technology. Um, and we're we actually have a pretty long technology actually have a pretty long technology actually have a pretty long technology roadmap of all the things we know we can roadmap of all the things we know we can roadmap of all the things we know we can build uh to keep automating more and build uh to keep automating more and build uh to keep automating more and more of the process. But um even now more of the process. But um even now more of the process. But um even now it's it's uh really automated and we add it's it's uh really automated and we add it's it's uh really automated and we add our engineering team just keeps adding our engineering team just keeps adding our engineering team just keeps adding features and features and features and features and features and features and features and features and features and so uh the core of the technology is so uh the core of the technology is so uh the core of the technology is compress that time period that it takes compress that time period that it takes compress that time period that it takes to find that good fit. Um and be to find that good fit. Um and be to find that good fit. Um and be able to do that at scale, right? able to do that at scale, right? able to do that at scale, right? » Is it is it more important on the time » Is it is it more important on the time » Is it is it more important on the time the time versus the right fit? I mean the time versus the right fit? I mean the time versus the right fit? I mean how do you weigh those? Because if you how do you weigh those? Because if you how do you weigh those? Because if you are the quickest but you get them are the quickest but you get them are the quickest but you get them » not a good employee or a good team » not a good employee or a good team » not a good employee or a good team member. member. member. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » I mean I guess those are the two main » I mean I guess those are the two main » I mean I guess those are the two main weights of the whole thing. weights of the whole thing. weights of the whole thing. » Those are so we view everything we do um » Those are so we view everything we do um » Those are so we view everything we do um around those two verticals like the like around those two verticals like the like around those two verticals like the like fit quality and speed fit quality and speed fit quality and speed » and we're just going to optimize for » and we're just going to optimize for » and we're just going to optimize for those two things. And so, um, people those two things. And so, um, people those two things. And so, um, people will never, our customers will never will never, our customers will never will never, our customers will never complain about us finding somebody complain about us finding somebody complain about us finding somebody faster or finding somebody who's a faster or finding somebody who's a faster or finding somebody who's a better fit. better fit. better fit. » So, uh, we think there's other » So, uh, we think there's other » So, uh, we think there's other competitive advantages to planetary competitive advantages to planetary competitive advantages to planetary talent. For example, we are way cheaper talent. For example, we are way cheaper talent. For example, we are way cheaper than any alternative option you have as than any alternative option you have as than any alternative option you have as a founder, but we're not that is not our a founder, but we're not that is not our a founder, but we're not that is not our goal. Um, we are only cheaper our goal. Um, we are only cheaper our goal. Um, we are only cheaper because we have so much technology that because we have so much technology that because we have so much technology that we can afford to be, but we're just we can afford to be, but we're just we can afford to be, but we're just going to keep optimizing over like find going to keep optimizing over like find going to keep optimizing over like find the best person as fast as possible. And the best person as fast as possible. And the best person as fast as possible. And anything we can do to make that process anything we can do to make that process anything we can do to make that process faster or or a better fit, we're going faster or or a better fit, we're going faster or or a better fit, we're going to we're going to optimize there. to we're going to optimize there. to we're going to optimize there. » Uh, what's harder, finding founders that » Uh, what's harder, finding founders that » Uh, what's harder, finding founders that need to hire or companies that need to need to hire or companies that need to need to hire or companies that need to hire or finding the uh team members for hire or finding the uh team members for hire or finding the uh team members for them? them? them? » Uh, finding companies that need to hire » Uh, finding companies that need to hire » Uh, finding companies that need to hire is our challenge right now. is our challenge right now. is our challenge right now. uh we are kind of focusing on growth uh we are kind of focusing on growth uh we are kind of focusing on growth mode now. We we took a long time to mode now. We we took a long time to mode now. We we took a long time to figure out what the core product was and figure out what the core product was and figure out what the core product was and like what the innovation was when we like what the innovation was when we like what the innovation was when we started. We didn't know and um we're at started. We didn't know and um we're at started. We didn't know and um we're at the point now where we have kind of an the point now where we have kind of an the point now where we have kind of an MVP version of all of our stuff working. MVP version of all of our stuff working. MVP version of all of our stuff working. Again, we're very early startup, right? Again, we're very early startup, right? Again, we're very early startup, right? But um we're at the point where at least But um we're at the point where at least But um we're at the point where at least the MVP is functional and um we can the MVP is functional and um we can the MVP is functional and um we can support quite a few inbound roles um and support quite a few inbound roles um and support quite a few inbound roles um and RO requests. And so uh for us finding RO requests. And so uh for us finding RO requests. And so uh for us finding the customers is now the growth the customers is now the growth the customers is now the growth um focus that we need to really push on. um focus that we need to really push on. um focus that we need to really push on. » Where's this database? Are you guys » Where's this database? Are you guys » Where's this database? Are you guys pulling from other databases of like pulling from other databases of like pulling from other databases of like finding applicants? finding applicants? finding applicants? » No. » No. » No. » Like how are you finding these » Like how are you finding these » Like how are you finding these employees? How are employees? How are employees? How are » they? This is another great innovation » they? This is another great innovation » they? This is another great innovation actually in the hiring accelerator. uh actually in the hiring accelerator. uh actually in the hiring accelerator. uh we were like okay what is the what is we were like okay what is the what is we were like okay what is the what is the ideal the ideal the ideal process for humanity at scale like what process for humanity at scale like what process for humanity at scale like what how would you want to be searching for how would you want to be searching for how would you want to be searching for applicants or finding jobs and um so applicants or finding jobs and um so applicants or finding jobs and um so when we have these digital replicas when we have these digital replicas when we have these digital replicas right we understand the company we have right we understand the company we have right we understand the company we have we understand the person who's the we understand the person who's the we understand the person who's the hiring manager the founder and we've hiring manager the founder and we've hiring manager the founder and we've built this data model around that we built this data model around that we built this data model around that we then take that data model and when they then take that data model and when they then take that data model and when they query for a role so they kind of put in query for a role so they kind of put in query for a role so they kind of put in a ro request test of like okay I need a ro request test of like okay I need a ro request test of like okay I need this person we'll go create what we this person we'll go create what we this person we'll go create what we call the ideal candidate and the ideal call the ideal candidate and the ideal call the ideal candidate and the ideal candidate is like what would be the candidate is like what would be the candidate is like what would be the perfect person internally we call it a perfect person internally we call it a perfect person internally we call it a synthetic candidate because everything's synthetic candidate because everything's synthetic candidate because everything's like sci-fi themed like they're a person like sci-fi themed like they're a person like sci-fi themed like they're a person that doesn't exist but if they did they that doesn't exist but if they did they that doesn't exist but if they did they would be the perfect fit for this would be the perfect fit for this would be the perfect fit for this company and uh we can even validate that company and uh we can even validate that company and uh we can even validate that with the hiring manager and the founder with the hiring manager and the founder with the hiring manager and the founder and be like if we found you this person and be like if we found you this person and be like if we found you this person » is that the perfect » is that the perfect » is that the perfect » is that the perfect fit right um and » is that the perfect fit right um and » is that the perfect fit right um and they can they can help critique that they can they can help critique that they can they can help critique that ideal candidate becomes the that ideal candidate becomes the that ideal candidate becomes the marketing persona to launch digital ads marketing persona to launch digital ads marketing persona to launch digital ads out and those digital ads are what bring out and those digital ads are what bring out and those digital ads are what bring the inbound candidates in. So, we're the inbound candidates in. So, we're the inbound candidates in. So, we're basically building a marketing persona, basically building a marketing persona, basically building a marketing persona, launching digital ads out um and then as launching digital ads out um and then as launching digital ads out um and then as people see ads, they click and come people see ads, they click and come people see ads, they click and come through our portal to start the talent through our portal to start the talent through our portal to start the talent discovery process and they all so we discovery process and they all so we discovery process and they all so we have » intent on everything. This is different » intent on everything. This is different » intent on everything. This is different than how traditional recruiters operate. than how traditional recruiters operate. than how traditional recruiters operate. A traditional recruiter would have like A traditional recruiter would have like A traditional recruiter would have like a bench or a list or they would call a bench or a list or they would call a bench or a list or they would call people or they'd cold email people who people or they'd cold email people who people or they'd cold email people who are happily employed. And we think that are happily employed. And we think that are happily employed. And we think that's not good for human civilization. that's not good for human civilization. that's not good for human civilization. If somebody is happily working in a on a If somebody is happily working in a on a If somebody is happily working in a on a mission that they align with and that mission that they align with and that mission that they align with and that they're excited about, we should leave they're excited about, we should leave they're excited about, we should leave them in that mission. We don't need to them in that mission. We don't need to them in that mission. We don't need to start a bidding war for their services start a bidding war for their services start a bidding war for their services and pull them away to something else and pull them away to something else and pull them away to something else that they may or may not be a good fit that they may or may not be a good fit that they may or may not be a good fit for. for. for. » Mhm. » Mhm. » Mhm. » So instead, we're just going to say, » So instead, we're just going to say, » So instead, we're just going to say, "No, we're going to source people who "No, we're going to source people who "No, we're going to source people who are actually interested in this thing." are actually interested in this thing." are actually interested in this thing." Yeah. And they via what mediums? You're Yeah. And they via what mediums? You're Yeah. And they via what mediums? You're saying you're putting these on the ads? saying you're putting these on the ads? saying you're putting these on the ads? That's really interesting. After you That's really interesting. After you That's really interesting. After you build the u synthetic perfect employee, build the u synthetic perfect employee, build the u synthetic perfect employee, » correct? Y » correct? Y » correct? Y » that gets sent out on what platforms? » that gets sent out on what platforms? » that gets sent out on what platforms? » So it's digital ads like » So it's digital ads like » So it's digital ads like » so they're just LinkedIn. » so they're just LinkedIn. » so they're just LinkedIn. » Uh yeah, we do post on like » Uh yeah, we do post on like » Uh yeah, we do post on like » specific to a like you're building an ad » specific to a like you're building an ad » specific to a like you're building an ad specific to each query, specific to each query, specific to each query, » each persona that we're looking for. » each persona that we're looking for. » each persona that we're looking for. Yeah. So we'll have So one of the things Yeah. So we'll have So one of the things Yeah. So we'll have So one of the things we can do which is really cool is um we we can do which is really cool is um we we can do which is really cool is um we can run we call it kind of like a halo can run we call it kind of like a halo can run we call it kind of like a halo of ads around the person that we're of ads around the person that we're of ads around the person that we're looking for. So um the maybe the founder looking for. So um the maybe the founder looking for. So um the maybe the founder told us that they need a uh product told us that they need a uh product told us that they need a uh product designer. It's like okay so we can designer. It's like okay so we can designer. It's like okay so we can generate the product designer profile generate the product designer profile generate the product designer profile but then we can also go run ads for UIUX but then we can also go run ads for UIUX but then we can also go run ads for UIUX designer senior product designer uh you designer senior product designer uh you designer senior product designer uh you know senior AI product designer and like know senior AI product designer and like know senior AI product designer and like run all of these different ads all run all of these different ads all run all of these different ads all around and uh then we can come back to around and uh then we can come back to around and uh then we can come back to the founder and be like oh you said you the founder and be like oh you said you the founder and be like oh you said you wanted product designer but what you're wanted product designer but what you're wanted product designer but what you're really looking for is senior UI you know really looking for is senior UI you know really looking for is senior UI you know product specialist or something like product specialist or something like product specialist or something like that » um and uh or we can we can or we'll run » um and uh or we can we can or we'll run » um and uh or we can we can or we'll run like different compensation bands and like different compensation bands and like different compensation bands and say so then we can come back and be like say so then we can come back and be like say so then we can come back and be like the market says that what you really the market says that what you really the market says that what you really want is going to be a little more than want is going to be a little more than want is going to be a little more than what you're budgeting for. what you're budgeting for. what you're budgeting for. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Um » Um » Um » interesting. » interesting. » interesting. » And and so you know we're going to » And and so you know we're going to » And and so you know we're going to launch these ads out. We're going to get launch these ads out. We're going to get launch these ads out. We're going to get lots of inbound traffic. It's really lots of inbound traffic. It's really lots of inbound traffic. It's really affordable for us. Um, and then we just affordable for us. Um, and then we just affordable for us. Um, and then we just have to start discovering who those have to start discovering who those have to start discovering who those people are and what makes them special people are and what makes them special people are and what makes them special and unique and then starting to assess and unique and then starting to assess and unique and then starting to assess like who is the perfect person uh for like who is the perfect person uh for like who is the perfect person uh for this for this role. this for this role. this for this role. » Yeah. That then coming to your database. » Yeah. That then coming to your database. » Yeah. That then coming to your database. So does that send them to planetary So does that send them to planetary So does that send them to planetary talent? So I mean like that's talent? So I mean like that's talent? So I mean like that's essentially the destination on all the essentially the destination on all the essentially the destination on all the ads. ads. ads. » They come in build up your own database. » They come in build up your own database. » They come in build up your own database. That's really cool. So and you can That's really cool. So and you can That's really cool. So and you can do it pretty broad and then also you can do it pretty broad and then also you can do it pretty broad and then also you can just run experiments and say you know just run experiments and say you know just run experiments and say you know what this one's pretty common. we're what this one's pretty common. we're what this one's pretty common. we're going to get ahead of this. going to get ahead of this. going to get ahead of this. » Absolutely. » Absolutely. » Absolutely. » And try and build up this pipeline. » And try and build up this pipeline. » And try and build up this pipeline. » And uh one of the benefits, so uh when » And uh one of the benefits, so uh when » And uh one of the benefits, so uh when we were having this kind of when we were having this kind of when we were having this kind of innovation, going back to first innovation, going back to first innovation, going back to first principles, one of the things my principles, one of the things my principles, one of the things my co-founder said is he's like, you should co-founder said is he's like, you should co-founder said is he's like, you should be able to interview for every job that be able to interview for every job that be able to interview for every job that you might be a good fit for. you might be a good fit for. you might be a good fit for. » Isn't that what everybody wants? » Isn't that what everybody wants? » Isn't that what everybody wants? » Sure. » Sure. » Sure. » Everyone wants to put their best foot » Everyone wants to put their best foot » Everyone wants to put their best foot forward for everything that they might forward for everything that they might forward for everything that they might be rel remotely qualified for. Um, so be rel remotely qualified for. Um, so be rel remotely qualified for. Um, so that's the kind of the core of our that's the kind of the core of our that's the kind of the core of our system is that you know the employer system is that you know the employer system is that you know the employer can actually consider every candidate can actually consider every candidate can actually consider every candidate and every candidate not only when they and every candidate not only when they and every candidate not only when they come like they'll come through an ad so come like they'll come through an ad so come like they'll come through an ad so they you maybe they click that senior they you maybe they click that senior they you maybe they click that senior product designer position. product designer position. product designer position. » Yeah. But as we do discovery with them, » Yeah. But as we do discovery with them, » Yeah. But as we do discovery with them, we find out that actually you're a we find out that actually you're a we find out that actually you're a product manager, but that's okay because product manager, but that's okay because product manager, but that's okay because we have AI product manager role open we have AI product manager role open we have AI product manager role open that you're a really good fit for. And that you're a really good fit for. And that you're a really good fit for. And so we can kind of like crisscross so we can kind of like crisscross so we can kind of like crisscross um the references there. Um and so um the references there. Um and so um the references there. Um and so we're we frequently are like running ads we're we frequently are like running ads we're we frequently are like running ads over here for this ideal candidate and over here for this ideal candidate and over here for this ideal candidate and in comes somebody who's the perfect in comes somebody who's the perfect in comes somebody who's the perfect person for this other thing over here. person for this other thing over here. person for this other thing over here. » Interesting. Yeah. Which I guess that's » Interesting. Yeah. Which I guess that's » Interesting. Yeah. Which I guess that's kind of how a lot of stories work, kind of how a lot of stories work, kind of how a lot of stories work, right? right? right? » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » It's kind of how it goes. you just all a » It's kind of how it goes. you just all a » It's kind of how it goes. you just all a sudden you're you're you're doing sales sudden you're you're you're doing sales sudden you're you're you're doing sales here and then someone needs someone here and then someone needs someone here and then someone needs someone that's head of sales development and that's head of sales development and that's head of sales development and you're like well I didn't really you're like well I didn't really you're like well I didn't really you know I didn't manage a team but I I know I didn't manage a team but I I know I didn't manage a team but I I would love to would love to would love to » right » right » right » uh and maybe they get a shot at it. » uh and maybe they get a shot at it. » uh and maybe they get a shot at it. » So we're just we're just kind of focused » So we're just we're just kind of focused » So we're just we're just kind of focused on this idea of like how can we get on this idea of like how can we get on this idea of like how can we get every person sorted into like the every person sorted into like the every person sorted into like the perfect role for them as fast as perfect role for them as fast as perfect role for them as fast as possible. That's good for human possible. That's good for human possible. That's good for human civilization and human collaboration if civilization and human collaboration if civilization and human collaboration if we can do that. So it's it's like we can do that. So it's it's like we can do that. So it's it's like civilization scale hiring civilization scale hiring civilization scale hiring infrastructure. That's that is a massive infrastructure. That's that is a massive infrastructure. That's that is a massive unsolved problem. unsolved problem. unsolved problem. » So when you're doing discovery, so they » So when you're doing discovery, so they » So when you're doing discovery, so they come into your system, the discovery is come into your system, the discovery is come into your system, the discovery is through technology or they're more through technology or they're more through technology or they're more interactions that take place with these interactions that take place with these interactions that take place with these candidates like the actual candidates like the actual candidates like the actual [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] » uh applicants, » uh applicants, » uh applicants, » the actual applicants um kick off kind » the actual applicants um kick off kind » the actual applicants um kick off kind of a discovery process with us. Um, and of a discovery process with us. Um, and of a discovery process with us. Um, and we've worked one of our the earliest we've worked one of our the earliest we've worked one of our the earliest team members we brought on, uh, her team members we brought on, uh, her team members we brought on, uh, her prior startup was in kind of like prior startup was in kind of like prior startup was in kind of like behavioral psychologyish. Uh, she built behavioral psychologyish. Uh, she built behavioral psychologyish. Uh, she built games for organizations to play to learn games for organizations to play to learn games for organizations to play to learn about their team members and then about their team members and then about their team members and then optimize their team structure. Um, optimize their team structure. Um, optimize their team structure. Um, » that's cool. » that's cool. » that's cool. » So, very cool. Like you play a game and » So, very cool. Like you play a game and » So, very cool. Like you play a game and then she's like, "Oh, after you guys all then she's like, "Oh, after you guys all then she's like, "Oh, after you guys all played this game, this person's got to played this game, this person's got to played this game, this person's got to go be on that team because they go be on that team because they go be on that team because they collaborate better with that person." collaborate better with that person." collaborate better with that person." And stuff like that. And so, um, we had And stuff like that. And so, um, we had And stuff like that. And so, um, we had her come on really early and kind of her come on really early and kind of her come on really early and kind of start to, uh, figure out like how do we start to, uh, figure out like how do we start to, uh, figure out like how do we ask the least amount of questions ask the least amount of questions ask the least amount of questions that are open-ended enough to get the that are open-ended enough to get the that are open-ended enough to get the best qualitative data out of the best qualitative data out of the best qualitative data out of the candidates. candidates. candidates. » That's got to be the secret. We all hate » That's got to be the secret. We all hate » That's got to be the secret. We all hate forms. forms. forms. » Yeah. You hate them. » Yeah. You hate them. » Yeah. You hate them. » I hate filling out. If I can play a » I hate filling out. If I can play a » I hate filling out. If I can play a video game and then you know everything video game and then you know everything video game and then you know everything you need to know about me, like I'm in. you need to know about me, like I'm in. you need to know about me, like I'm in. I'll never I'll never go anywhere else. I'll never I'll never go anywhere else. I'll never I'll never go anywhere else. » So, uh, we're not quite there yet. I » So, uh, we're not quite there yet. I » So, uh, we're not quite there yet. I hope I hope I lose my job again so I can hope I hope I lose my job again so I can hope I hope I lose my job again so I can go play that planetary talent video go play that planetary talent video go play that planetary talent video game. game. game. » Uh profile me. » Uh profile me. » Uh profile me. » We're not quite there yet, but » We're not quite there yet, but » We're not quite there yet, but we're we're getting there. Um and so we're we're getting there. Um and so we're we're getting there. Um and so that's the end goal. Um but the cool that's the end goal. Um but the cool that's the end goal. Um but the cool thing is is that you know there's kind thing is is that you know there's kind thing is is that you know there's kind of an intake process that's uh we we got of an intake process that's uh we we got of an intake process that's uh we we got to validate like hard requirements, to validate like hard requirements, to validate like hard requirements, right? Stuff like the location and the right? Stuff like the location and the right? Stuff like the location and the compensation and things. And then we compensation and things. And then we compensation and things. And then we have these kind of softer um uh have these kind of softer um uh have these kind of softer um uh questions where you know we're we're questions where you know we're we're questions where you know we're we're asking people about the things Chad GPT asking people about the things Chad GPT asking people about the things Chad GPT can't fake because we found that's can't fake because we found that's can't fake because we found that's actually the meat of who they are. Like actually the meat of who they are. Like actually the meat of who they are. Like » interesting » interesting » interesting » Chad GPT doesn't know what is Samuel » Chad GPT doesn't know what is Samuel » Chad GPT doesn't know what is Samuel most proud of. most proud of. most proud of. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » What's the what's what's the project » What's the what's what's the project » What's the what's what's the project you've done that you're most proud of? you've done that you're most proud of? you've done that you're most proud of? Only you answer that. Only you answer that. Only you answer that. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » And unless you tell Chad GBT, it doesn't » And unless you tell Chad GBT, it doesn't » And unless you tell Chad GBT, it doesn't know. Has no clue. It could make know. Has no clue. It could make know. Has no clue. It could make something up, but it's not going to be something up, but it's not going to be something up, but it's not going to be very good and it's not going to be very good and it's not going to be very good and it's not going to be very personal to you. So, um, questions like personal to you. So, um, questions like personal to you. So, um, questions like that, questions like, you know, what that, questions like, you know, what that, questions like, you know, what team did you really enjoy working with team did you really enjoy working with team did you really enjoy working with in the past? Only you know the answer to in the past? Only you know the answer to in the past? Only you know the answer to that. Those are deeply human that. Those are deeply human that. Those are deeply human experiences. So, experiences. So, experiences. So, » and those are good questions that are » and those are good questions that are » and those are good questions that are never on a resume. You know what I mean? never on a resume. You know what I mean? never on a resume. You know what I mean? Like, you can know that going into it. Like, you can know that going into it. Like, you can know that going into it. Uh, like, hey, traditionally, I've Uh, like, hey, traditionally, I've Uh, like, hey, traditionally, I've excelled in these type of types of excelled in these type of types of excelled in these type of types of [snorts] environments. this is why uh [snorts] environments. this is why uh [snorts] environments. this is why uh you're gonna notice I was just laid off you're gonna notice I was just laid off you're gonna notice I was just laid off here and this is why I did not thrive here and this is why I did not thrive here and this is why I did not thrive there. Like you get that to at there. Like you get that to at there. Like you get that to at the interview process, but I'm like how can interview process, but I'm like how can interview process, but I'm like how can you get that before? Yep. you get that before? Yep. you get that before? Yep. » You know, just understanding what » You know, just understanding what » You know, just understanding what motivates people because I've I've found motivates people because I've I've found motivates people because I've I've found over the years of hiring over the years of hiring over the years of hiring » I don't know how many people between our » I don't know how many people between our » I don't know how many people between our companies, but like finding someone companies, but like finding someone companies, but like finding someone that's motivated by something they do is that's motivated by something they do is that's motivated by something they do is so much better than any measure of so much better than any measure of so much better than any measure of talent or experience. It's like if they talent or experience. It's like if they talent or experience. It's like if they can be motivated by what they're doing can be motivated by what they're doing can be motivated by what they're doing at your organization, it's like the rest at your organization, it's like the rest at your organization, it's like the rest of it's a lot easier. of it's a lot easier. of it's a lot easier. » Absolutely. » Absolutely. » Absolutely. » They can be motivated and when » They can be motivated and when » They can be motivated and when they're not motivated, and that's a big they're not motivated, and that's a big they're not motivated, and that's a big thing at Killer Growth that we're, you thing at Killer Growth that we're, you thing at Killer Growth that we're, you know, after whatever 13 years of messing know, after whatever 13 years of messing know, after whatever 13 years of messing it up of being a bad employer, it's like it up of being a bad employer, it's like it up of being a bad employer, it's like going into Killer Growth, Norse and I going into Killer Growth, Norse and I going into Killer Growth, Norse and I are always like, "How how are they are always like, "How how are they are always like, "How how are they feeling?" Like what's going on feeling?" Like what's going on feeling?" Like what's going on there? Like are they are they feeling there? Like are they are they feeling there? Like are they are they feeling low? How do we recharge? You know, just low? How do we recharge? You know, just low? How do we recharge? You know, just that stuff is just so important. Yeah. that stuff is just so important. Yeah. that stuff is just so important. Yeah. And we we call that mission alignment. And we we call that mission alignment. And we we call that mission alignment. Uh everything space themed. Uh everything space themed. Uh everything space themed. » You gota you always got to bring back » You gota you always got to bring back » You gota you always got to bring back space. space. space. » Uh but you know what is the mission » Uh but you know what is the mission » Uh but you know what is the mission alignment this person has with what the alignment this person has with what the alignment this person has with what the company is trying to accomplish. Uh company is trying to accomplish. Uh company is trying to accomplish. Uh they're going to be way more bought in they're going to be way more bought in they're going to be way more bought in if we can find that. And so to the if we can find that. And so to the if we can find that. And so to the extent that we can take as much of those extent that we can take as much of those extent that we can take as much of those checks and run them without having to checks and run them without having to checks and run them without having to require a lot of time uh from the talent require a lot of time uh from the talent require a lot of time uh from the talent or the employer um the better off we can or the employer um the better off we can or the employer um the better off we can we can be. we better match we can make we can be. we better match we can make we can be. we better match we can make and the faster we can be. And so uh we and the faster we can be. And so uh we and the faster we can be. And so uh we are not building like an AI hiring bot are not building like an AI hiring bot are not building like an AI hiring bot where you have to like get on a call. where you have to like get on a call. where you have to like get on a call. Some people are building this where you Some people are building this where you Some people are building this where you have to like get on an interview but the have to like get on an interview but the have to like get on an interview but the first interview is with like an AI first interview is with like an AI first interview is with like an AI screener. screener. screener. » I think that's a dehumanizing » I think that's a dehumanizing » I think that's a dehumanizing experience. experience. experience. » Uh if you're going to get on a on a » Uh if you're going to get on a on a » Uh if you're going to get on a on a call, you're going to get on a call with call, you're going to get on a call with call, you're going to get on a call with a real human being. Um but we can do a a real human being. Um but we can do a a real human being. Um but we can do a lot of validation before that. lot of validation before that. lot of validation before that. » Yeah. Yeah. And that's huge. Oh my gosh. » Yeah. Yeah. And that's huge. Oh my gosh. » Yeah. Yeah. And that's huge. Oh my gosh. just uh our local cleaning company just uh our local cleaning company just uh our local cleaning company switching to group interview style. Uh switching to group interview style. Uh switching to group interview style. Uh right, because we're hiring locals, they right, because we're hiring locals, they right, because we're hiring locals, they need to live here in Eldredo need to live here in Eldredo need to live here in Eldredo um or or relatively close. Uh but just um or or relatively close. Uh but just um or or relatively close. Uh but just switching to a group interview as the switching to a group interview as the switching to a group interview as the first interview and not doing one first interview and not doing one first interview and not doing oneoffs with the 10 people, put all 10 oneoffs with the 10 people, put all 10 oneoffs with the 10 people, put all 10 in the room, it's insane how much you in the room, it's insane how much you in the room, it's insane how much you learn about them. And we got that from learn about them. And we got that from learn about them. And we got that from another uh program, a guy that we paid another uh program, a guy that we paid another uh program, a guy that we paid actually in the cleaning industry actually in the cleaning industry actually in the cleaning industry specifically. He was like, "This is a specifically. He was like, "This is a specifically. He was like, "This is a thing I adopted changed everything." And thing I adopted changed everything." And thing I adopted changed everything." And you can like sit in that room and it's a you can like sit in that room and it's a you can like sit in that room and it's a very human experience cuz you're like, very human experience cuz you're like, very human experience cuz you're like, "Okay, who obviously doesn't want to be "Okay, who obviously doesn't want to be "Okay, who obviously doesn't want to be here?" You that's like one of the first here?" You that's like one of the first here?" You that's like one of the first things you write down. Who does not want things you write down. Who does not want things you write down. Who does not want to be in this room, to be in this room, to be in this room, » right? Uh who is uh not being a good » right? Uh who is uh not being a good » right? Uh who is uh not being a good teammate because they're talking over teammate because they're talking over teammate because they're talking over everyone? They're not listening well. everyone? They're not listening well. everyone? They're not listening well. They're not applying. they're not They're not applying. they're not They're not applying. they're not listening to the questions well or so listening to the questions well or so listening to the questions well or so you kind of weed out 70 80% of them you kind of weed out 70 80% of them you kind of weed out 70 80% of them really quickly in the same time you really quickly in the same time you really quickly in the same time you would have done one interview. would have done one interview. would have done one interview. » Yeah. And uh and then they're welcome to » Yeah. And uh and then they're welcome to » Yeah. And uh and then they're welcome to come back and we've had people come back come back and we've had people come back come back and we've had people come back to group interviews and do better, to group interviews and do better, to group interviews and do better, right? Like they come back and improve right? Like they come back and improve right? Like they come back and improve and go, "Well, I didn't get a call back and go, "Well, I didn't get a call back and go, "Well, I didn't get a call back and I was I was obviously probably and I was I was obviously probably and I was I was obviously probably having a bad day or who knows, right?" having a bad day or who knows, right?" having a bad day or who knows, right?" Like, you know, you hate to judge a book Like, you know, you hate to judge a book Like, you know, you hate to judge a book by its cover, but it is a really by its cover, but it is a really by its cover, but it is a really efficient way to put people and then efficient way to put people and then efficient way to put people and then asking questions that are open-ended asking questions that are open-ended asking questions that are open-ended without going in order, without going in order, without going in order, » right? Like we say, we don't care who » right? Like we say, we don't care who » right? Like we say, we don't care who goes when you go. You just ask a goes when you go. You just ask a goes when you go. You just ask a question and then they have to like question and then they have to like question and then they have to like assert themsel who's gonna assert themsel who's gonna assert themsel who's gonna assert themselves, who's just not gonna answer themselves, who's just not gonna answer themselves, who's just not gonna answer the question. the question. the question. » Um kind of a but yeah, back to that » Um kind of a but yeah, back to that » Um kind of a but yeah, back to that human element. I love that. Like human element. I love that. Like human element. I love that. Like » and I think that's uh » and I think that's uh » and I think that's uh essentially what we're trying to do essentially what we're trying to do essentially what we're trying to do digitally scale like you know if we ask digitally scale like you know if we ask digitally scale like you know if we ask we send a message to you and we ask you we send a message to you and we ask you we send a message to you and we ask you for confirmation on your compensation for confirmation on your compensation for confirmation on your compensation details or something and then you just details or something and then you just details or something and then you just don't respond. don't respond. don't respond. » Yeah. Yeah. You're moving down. » Yeah. Yeah. You're moving down. » Yeah. Yeah. You're moving down. » We're moving on. Moving on. Right. » We're moving on. Moving on. Right. » We're moving on. Moving on. Right. » Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense. You uh » Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense. You uh » Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense. You uh in my research, I found uh 21 in my research, I found uh 21 in my research, I found uh 21 2025, 2025, 2025, year 2125. Can you talk to me about year 2125. Can you talk to me about year 2125. Can you talk to me about that? that? that? » Uh planning. » Uh planning. » Uh planning. » Yeah. Our copyrights. U Well, » Yeah. Our copyrights. U Well, » Yeah. Our copyrights. U Well, » you're going to have to wait and see. » you're going to have to wait and see. » you're going to have to wait and see. » Uh » Uh » Uh » I mean that is Yeah. I mean, » I mean that is Yeah. I mean, » I mean that is Yeah. I mean, building a century out building a century out building a century out » is no joke. » is no joke. » is no joke. » There's uh so one of the things that my » There's uh so one of the things that my » There's uh so one of the things that my co-founder is really interested in is co-founder is really interested in is co-founder is really interested in is the is the idea of the longevity of the is the idea of the longevity of the is the idea of the longevity of a company. a company. a company. » Like how do you build a company that is » Like how do you build a company that is » Like how do you build a company that is going to stand the test of time? And I going to stand the test of time? And I going to stand the test of time? And I think one of the secrets to that is think one of the secrets to that is think one of the secrets to that is having a big vision. having a big vision. having a big vision. » Um like Blue Origin, their business plan » Um like Blue Origin, their business plan » Um like Blue Origin, their business plan is famously 100 years long. is famously 100 years long. is famously 100 years long. » So they have a 100-year business plan. » So they have a 100-year business plan. » So they have a 100-year business plan. That's crazy, That's crazy, That's crazy, » right? And um » right? And um » right? And um » it's a lot of work to make one change. » it's a lot of work to make one change. » it's a lot of work to make one change. » Yeah, it's a lot. You're like, "Oh, what » Yeah, it's a lot. You're like, "Oh, what » Yeah, it's a lot. You're like, "Oh, what are » there? I see a calculation error." » there? I see a calculation error." » there? I see a calculation error." » Um but it's having that like long vision » Um but it's having that like long vision » Um but it's having that like long vision and plan that uh inspires people. And I and plan that uh inspires people. And I and plan that uh inspires people. And I think this is one of the special think this is one of the special think this is one of the special things about planetary talent is that we things about planetary talent is that we things about planetary talent is that we are um we are trying to think that far are um we are trying to think that far are um we are trying to think that far out and we're trying to build the out and we're trying to build the out and we're trying to build the right now it's like the baby steps to right now it's like the baby steps to right now it's like the baby steps to what we hope the eventual system will be what we hope the eventual system will be what we hope the eventual system will be to enable cross collaboration um of to enable cross collaboration um of to enable cross collaboration um of humans across all planets or wherever we humans across all planets or wherever we humans across all planets or wherever we end up um exploring in the stars. And end up um exploring in the stars. And end up um exploring in the stars. And so, uh, when you take a big vision like so, uh, when you take a big vision like so, uh, when you take a big vision like that and you say, "How do you how do you that and you say, "How do you how do you that and you say, "How do you how do you collaborate with someone on Mars?" Um, collaborate with someone on Mars?" Um, collaborate with someone on Mars?" Um, it's you, it's you, it's you, » it's just not a question I would have » it's just not a question I would have » it's just not a question I would have ever thought [clears throat] to ask. ever thought [clears throat] to ask. ever thought [clears throat] to ask. » Well, it the interesting thing, the » Well, it the interesting thing, the » Well, it the interesting thing, the interesting thing is we actually asked interesting thing is we actually asked interesting thing is we actually asked this a lot of time a lot in um, this a lot of time a lot in um, this a lot of time a lot in um, planetary talent internally. I'll give planetary talent internally. I'll give planetary talent internally. I'll give you an example in a second, but when you an example in a second, but when you an example in a second, but when you scale that down, it's actually the same scale that down, it's actually the same scale that down, it's actually the same problem we have right now. So, uh, we problem we have right now. So, uh, we problem we have right now. So, uh, we had a debate last, uh, last month, had a debate last, uh, last month, had a debate last, uh, last month, I think it was, about, um, how do you I think it was, about, um, how do you I think it was, about, um, how do you have a team meeting if you have one have a team meeting if you have one have a team meeting if you have one employee on the moon? employee on the moon? employee on the moon? How do you have an all team meeting How do you have an all team meeting How do you have an all team meeting » over Zoom? » over Zoom? » over Zoom? » I I Well, but how what time when do you » I I Well, but how what time when do you » I I Well, but how what time when do you schedule that? Right. Um, schedule that? Right. Um, schedule that? Right. Um, » what's the delay? And uh so the moon uh » what's the delay? And uh so the moon uh » what's the delay? And uh so the moon uh runs off of totally different cycles runs off of totally different cycles runs off of totally different cycles than we do. than we do. than we do. » Uh it's like a 23hour day and uh it's » Uh it's like a 23hour day and uh it's » Uh it's like a 23hour day and uh it's two weeks of all light and then two weeks of all light and then two weeks of all light and then two weeks of all dark. And um so there's all weeks of all dark. And um so there's all weeks of all dark. And um so there's all of these interesting variables, but what of these interesting variables, but what of these interesting variables, but what we found is that problem of we found is that problem of we found is that problem of like we don't know how to coordinate a like we don't know how to coordinate a like we don't know how to coordinate a meeting with a person who's going to be meeting with a person who's going to be meeting with a person who's going to be working on our team on the moon is also working on our team on the moon is also working on our team on the moon is also the same problem we have with our team the same problem we have with our team the same problem we have with our team in India right now in India right now in India right now » because we have some team member team » because we have some team member team » because we have some team member team members in India. One of my co-founders members in India. One of my co-founders members in India. One of my co-founders is in Pune, India. Um and we've got is in Pune, India. Um and we've got is in Pune, India. Um and we've got daylight savings time. So in the US our daylight savings time. So in the US our daylight savings time. So in the US our clock keeps moving back and forth. clock keeps moving back and forth. clock keeps moving back and forth. they're 11 and a half hours different. they're 11 and a half hours different. they're 11 and a half hours different. Uh if we schedule, we have uh team Uh if we schedule, we have uh team Uh if we schedule, we have uh team members on the west coast and central members on the west coast and central members on the west coast and central time. There is no time to do an actual time. There is no time to do an actual time. There is no time to do an actual all hands. So um if you're going to run all hands. So um if you're going to run all hands. So um if you're going to run a company that way or eventually run a a company that way or eventually run a a company that way or eventually run a company with people in outer space, you company with people in outer space, you company with people in outer space, you have to figure out a different solution have to figure out a different solution have to figure out a different solution for how you're going to convey for how you're going to convey for how you're going to convey information out across the organization. information out across the organization. information out across the organization. » Sounds like a planetary talent problem. » Sounds like a planetary talent problem. » Sounds like a planetary talent problem. » That's a planetary talent problem. And » That's a planetary talent problem. And » That's a planetary talent problem. And so um we're experimenting right now with so um we're experimenting right now with so um we're experimenting right now with a solution we think could be interesting a solution we think could be interesting a solution we think could be interesting where we're running uh essentially where we're running uh essentially where we're running uh essentially YouTube channels for different hubs. So YouTube channels for different hubs. So YouTube channels for different hubs. So it's like you are part of a hub of the it's like you are part of a hub of the it's like you are part of a hub of the organization and uh you're going to have organization and uh you're going to have organization and uh you're going to have an all hands and then you're going to an all hands and then you're going to an all hands and then you're going to upload that because you have YouTube upload that because you have YouTube upload that because you have YouTube subscriber you subscribe to YouTube subscriber you subscribe to YouTube subscriber you subscribe to YouTube channels of people all over the world channels of people all over the world channels of people all over the world and you don't care when they upload. You and you don't care when they upload. You and you don't care when they upload. You just care that the video is there when just care that the video is there when just care that the video is there when you want it, right? Um, and so we're you want it, right? Um, and so we're you want it, right? Um, and so we're running a similar process right now running a similar process right now running a similar process right now where um, our team hubs will upload where um, our team hubs will upload where um, our team hubs will upload to their YouTube channels and then to their YouTube channels and then to their YouTube channels and then people will watch and make reaction people will watch and make reaction people will watch and make reaction videos and then like upload their own videos and then like upload their own videos and then like upload their own things. Um, and that could be scalable. things. Um, and that could be scalable. things. Um, and that could be scalable. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. That's fascinating. So essentially » Yeah. That's fascinating. So essentially » Yeah. That's fascinating. So essentially it's it's not real time collaboration it's it's not real time collaboration it's it's not real time collaboration but in some like you're figuring out a but in some like you're figuring out a but in some like you're figuring out a way where they could still collaborate way where they could still collaborate way where they could still collaborate » gain knowledge as if it were real time. » gain knowledge as if it were real time. » gain knowledge as if it were real time. » That's the goal. » That's the goal. » That's the goal. » That's the goal. Yeah. » That's the goal. Yeah. » That's the goal. Yeah. » Yeah. Yeah. » Yeah. Yeah. » Yeah. Yeah. » So we try to think about these things. » So we try to think about these things. » So we try to think about these things. Um and the but it's really important to Um and the but it's really important to Um and the but it's really important to us that us that us that » well and you're building to be a phoenix » well and you're building to be a phoenix » well and you're building to be a phoenix which is a hundred-year-old company which is a hundred-year-old company which is a hundred-year-old company which is very rare which is very rare which is very rare » right? um uh the LinkedIn co-founder of » right? um uh the LinkedIn co-founder of » right? um uh the LinkedIn co-founder of LinkedIn um has a podcast uh Reed LinkedIn um has a podcast uh Reed LinkedIn um has a podcast uh Reed Hoffman I think is his name. Hoffman I think is his name. Hoffman I think is his name. » Yeah. And uh he's got yeah he's got a » Yeah. And uh he's got yeah he's got a » Yeah. And uh he's got yeah he's got a lot of stuff on that and he's done a lot of stuff on that and he's done a lot of stuff on that and he's done a lot of research on hundred-y old companies of research on hundred-y old companies of research on hundred-y old companies and a lot of it was just crazy massive and a lot of it was just crazy massive and a lot of it was just crazy massive plans otherworldly plans that were just plans otherworldly plans that were just plans otherworldly plans that were just like outlandish like you know and I like outlandish like you know and I like outlandish like you know and I think Steve Jobs did a lot of that too think Steve Jobs did a lot of that too think Steve Jobs did a lot of that too where he was you know just thinking of where he was you know just thinking of where he was you know just thinking of stuff that probably drove his team crazy stuff that probably drove his team crazy stuff that probably drove his team crazy but that probably keeps you crazy but that probably keeps you crazy but that probably keeps you crazy motivated » to say no we're going to figure this » to say no we're going to figure this » to say no we're going to figure this out. out. out. » Yeah. Yeah it is. and you got to be » Yeah. Yeah it is. and you got to be » Yeah. Yeah it is. and you got to be working on it can't be so outlandish working on it can't be so outlandish working on it can't be so outlandish that you won't be able to ever get that you won't be able to ever get that you won't be able to ever get there. there. there. » So you have to like create this like » So you have to like create this like » So you have to like create this like this thread of like oh it's this thread of like oh it's this thread of like oh it's possible we can do this. Um, and what possible we can do this. Um, and what possible we can do this. Um, and what are the things if we just reverse are the things if we just reverse are the things if we just reverse engineer this all the way down, what is engineer this all the way down, what is engineer this all the way down, what is the baby step that we have to take right the baby step that we have to take right the baby step that we have to take right now to build? Um, because like our now to build? Um, because like our now to build? Um, because like our vision, uh, our internal business plan vision, uh, our internal business plan vision, uh, our internal business plan for what planetary talent becomes, if if for what planetary talent becomes, if if for what planetary talent becomes, if if I could wave a magic wand and bring it I could wave a magic wand and bring it I could wave a magic wand and bring it into existence right now, people into existence right now, people into existence right now, people probably don't want it yet. probably don't want it yet. probably don't want it yet. » Yeah. Yeah, that's tough. And that's » Yeah. Yeah, that's tough. And that's » Yeah. Yeah, that's tough. And that's usually when everyone fails or quit, usually when everyone fails or quit, usually when everyone fails or quit, more importantly quits because they more importantly quits because they more importantly quits because they can't get adoption. They can't get can't get adoption. They can't get can't get adoption. They can't get buyers, right? You can't get uh they're buyers, right? You can't get uh they're buyers, right? You can't get uh they're they're used to the normal hiring agency they're used to the normal hiring agency they're used to the normal hiring agency process and you're like, "No, this is process and you're like, "No, this is process and you're like, "No, this is better." better." better." » Yeah. So, our goal is just keep » Yeah. So, our goal is just keep » Yeah. So, our goal is just keep innovating. innovating. innovating. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » On that process, » On that process, » On that process, » uh what's been your biggest success » uh what's been your biggest success » uh what's been your biggest success as far as partnering with companies as far as partnering with companies as far as partnering with companies right now? Have you had some cool right now? Have you had some cool right now? Have you had some cool experiences yet of helping people out? experiences yet of helping people out? experiences yet of helping people out? » Oh, we've had so many cool experiences. » Oh, we've had so many cool experiences. » Oh, we've had so many cool experiences. Um, Um, Um, one of the most fun things about one of the most fun things about one of the most fun things about planetary talent is the matchmaking. So, planetary talent is the matchmaking. So, planetary talent is the matchmaking. So, we we don't say recruiting. Uh, we call we we don't say recruiting. Uh, we call we we don't say recruiting. Uh, we call everything matchmaking because we that's everything matchmaking because we that's everything matchmaking because we that's the way we view it. And um when you the way we view it. And um when you the way we view it. And um when you make that match and you find the perfect make that match and you find the perfect make that match and you find the perfect person for the for the job um it's like person for the for the job um it's like person for the for the job um it's like magic and you feel magic and you feel magic and you feel the whole team celebrates that and feels the whole team celebrates that and feels the whole team celebrates that and feels like so special because we know that not like so special because we know that not like so special because we know that not you know it's good for our business. you know it's good for our business. you know it's good for our business. Great. They're going to pay us to make a Great. They're going to pay us to make a Great. They're going to pay us to make a match. But ultimately, the amount of of match. But ultimately, the amount of of match. But ultimately, the amount of of growth that company is going to growth that company is going to growth that company is going to have, that person's going to have, have, that person's going to have, have, that person's going to have, um, all the lives that they're going to um, all the lives that they're going to um, all the lives that they're going to change in in doing the cool thing. Like, change in in doing the cool thing. Like, change in in doing the cool thing. Like, it actually goes back a little bit to it actually goes back a little bit to it actually goes back a little bit to when I first started with branding and when I first started with branding and when I first started with branding and I'm helping all these founders with I'm helping all these founders with I'm helping all these founders with their mission of changing the world. I their mission of changing the world. I their mission of changing the world. I feel like I'm doing the same thing now. feel like I'm doing the same thing now. feel like I'm doing the same thing now. » Uh, because getting the right people » Uh, because getting the right people » Uh, because getting the right people maybe is even more critical than giving maybe is even more critical than giving maybe is even more critical than giving getting the right brand in some getting the right brand in some getting the right brand in some capacities. And uh these founders that capacities. And uh these founders that capacities. And uh these founders that we're working with are doing incredible we're working with are doing incredible we're working with are doing incredible things, building incredible technology, things, building incredible technology, things, building incredible technology, and we just get the opportunity to help and we just get the opportunity to help and we just get the opportunity to help them find the perfect people that want them find the perfect people that want them find the perfect people that want to go on that mission with them. And to go on that mission with them. And to go on that mission with them. And that's super special. that's super special. that's super special. » And I think you just said it. Is your » And I think you just said it. Is your » And I think you just said it. Is your model pay for a match? Is that how model pay for a match? Is that how model pay for a match? Is that how » that is? Our model. Yep. So pay for a » that is? Our model. Yep. So pay for a » that is? Our model. Yep. So pay for a match. Um and then we have uh kind of a match. Um and then we have uh kind of a match. Um and then we have uh kind of a followalong service where you can pay us followalong service where you can pay us followalong service where you can pay us to employ the person too if you want. to employ the person too if you want. to employ the person too if you want. Um, and that's that's part of our Um, and that's that's part of our Um, and that's that's part of our long-term vision of like it should be long-term vision of like it should be long-term vision of like it should be one click simple to hire someone and get one click simple to hire someone and get one click simple to hire someone and get them working on your team. Um, you them working on your team. Um, you them working on your team. Um, you should be able to put out a stream of should be able to put out a stream of should be able to put out a stream of consciousness right into the universe and have the right into the universe and have the right into the universe and have the perfect person come back to you and perfect person come back to you and perfect person come back to you and click a button and they're on your team click a button and they're on your team click a button and they're on your team tomorrow. And that's the system we're tomorrow. And that's the system we're tomorrow. And that's the system we're we're building. And so, um, we get paid we're building. And so, um, we get paid we're building. And so, um, we get paid per match. We've every time we find the per match. We've every time we find the per match. We've every time we find the right person and you're like, right person and you're like, right person and you're like, "That's the person for me and my my "That's the person for me and my my "That's the person for me and my my company." If you want us to, we will company." If you want us to, we will company." If you want us to, we will also employ that person, but that's also employ that person, but that's also employ that person, but that's totally optional. If you already have totally optional. If you already have totally optional. If you already have payroll infrastructure and you want to payroll infrastructure and you want to payroll infrastructure and you want to do all that complexity yourself, you do all that complexity yourself, you do all that complexity yourself, you know, how about it? But um we offer it. know, how about it? But um we offer it. know, how about it? But um we offer it. » And how do you get that to a one day » And how do you get that to a one day » And how do you get that to a one day click even if you're hiring them? That click even if you're hiring them? That click even if you're hiring them? That seems that seems that seems that seems » one day click is ambitious. » one day click is ambitious. » one day click is ambitious. » That's in 215. » That's in 215. » That's in 215. » Yeah. Yeah. Give us some time. We'll get » Yeah. Yeah. Give us some time. We'll get » Yeah. Yeah. Give us some time. We'll get there. Uh we can make it pretty quick there. Uh we can make it pretty quick there. Uh we can make it pretty quick because we do have all of the systems because we do have all of the systems because we do have all of the systems and infrastructure in place. um and you and infrastructure in place. um and you and infrastructure in place. um and you know things like background checks know things like background checks know things like background checks and stuff that's like already we already and stuff that's like already we already and stuff that's like already we already on file. So like it's a little faster on file. So like it's a little faster on file. So like it's a little faster for us. Um but the goal eventually would for us. Um but the goal eventually would for us. Um but the goal eventually would be that it's like really fast. be that it's like really fast. be that it's like really fast. » How much of the talent acquisition is uh » How much of the talent acquisition is uh » How much of the talent acquisition is uh remote versus local that you're remote versus local that you're remote versus local that you're providing? Or give me a percentage. providing? Or give me a percentage. providing? Or give me a percentage. » We probably do 30% in office. » We probably do 30% in office. » We probably do 30% in office. » Okay. Uh we we really try to get our » Okay. Uh we we really try to get our » Okay. Uh we we really try to get our founders to think about if they need a founders to think about if they need a founders to think about if they need a person in the office with them or not person in the office with them or not person in the office with them or not and why. Uh because the wider we can and why. Uh because the wider we can and why. Uh because the wider we can open the aperture, the faster we can open the aperture, the faster we can open the aperture, the faster we can fill that role. And often times the fill that role. And often times the fill that role. And often times the perfect person is not living in your zip perfect person is not living in your zip perfect person is not living in your zip code. code. code. » Yeah. » Yeah. » Yeah. » I mean maybe you could be lucky, but » I mean maybe you could be lucky, but » I mean maybe you could be lucky, but it's it's not always it's it's not always it's it's not always » possible. And so um and the best person » possible. And so um and the best person » possible. And so um and the best person probably isn't. And so, um, we try to probably isn't. And so, um, we try to probably isn't. And so, um, we try to have founders think about like, okay, have founders think about like, okay, have founders think about like, okay, they said, you're like, well, I need they said, you're like, well, I need they said, you're like, well, I need someone in office. You're like, uh, what someone in office. You're like, uh, what someone in office. You're like, uh, what if they were in office 2 days a week? if they were in office 2 days a week? if they were in office 2 days a week? Oh, okay. I could probably live with Oh, okay. I could probably live with Oh, okay. I could probably live with that. It's like, okay, well, then maybe that. It's like, okay, well, then maybe that. It's like, okay, well, then maybe we can search, uh, outside the city we can search, uh, outside the city we can search, uh, outside the city within a 3 or 4 hour drive cuz maybe within a 3 or 4 hour drive cuz maybe within a 3 or 4 hour drive cuz maybe they're willing to make that commute. they're willing to make that commute. they're willing to make that commute. And then it's like, well, what if it was And then it's like, well, what if it was And then it's like, well, what if it was just once a week or once every other just once a week or once every other just once a week or once every other week or a month? And then like do you week or a month? And then like do you week or a month? And then like do you actually need them there at all to do actually need them there at all to do actually need them there at all to do this job or are they really just coding this job or are they really just coding this job or are they really just coding for 40 hours? Um and they can be remote. for 40 hours? Um and they can be remote. for 40 hours? Um and they can be remote. And if they can be remote, can they be And if they can be remote, can they be And if they can be remote, can they be remote off an hour of your time zone? remote off an hour of your time zone? remote off an hour of your time zone? Because if you give me an hour time zone Because if you give me an hour time zone Because if you give me an hour time zone or two either way, then I can search a or two either way, then I can search a or two either way, then I can search a much wider area. And so the more I can much wider area. And so the more I can much wider area. And so the more I can help a founder kind of like broaden help a founder kind of like broaden help a founder kind of like broaden their horizons a little bit, the faster their horizons a little bit, the faster their horizons a little bit, the faster we can find a perfect fit. we can find a perfect fit. we can find a perfect fit. » Uh this is a weird question. uh just » Uh this is a weird question. uh just » Uh this is a weird question. uh just popped into my head. What how does the popped into my head. What how does the popped into my head. What how does the industry feel about planetary fitness? industry feel about planetary fitness? industry feel about planetary fitness? » Planetary fitness. » Planetary fitness. » Planetary fitness. » Wow. Planetary talent. » Wow. Planetary talent. » Wow. Planetary talent. » Oh, okay. » Oh, okay. » Oh, okay. » No, let's let's start with fitness. I » No, let's let's start with fitness. I » No, let's let's start with fitness. I have a bone to pick with planetary have a bone to pick with planetary have a bone to pick with planetary fitness. fitness. fitness. » I was like » I was like » I was like I mean I don't know if I can my opinion, I mean I don't know if I can my opinion, I mean I don't know if I can my opinion, but I don't know if I can answer it. but I don't know if I can answer it. but I don't know if I can answer it. » Oh, that's embarrassing. Uh, but did you » Oh, that's embarrassing. Uh, but did you » Oh, that's embarrassing. Uh, but did you know on that topic, Plantary Fitness, know on that topic, Plantary Fitness, know on that topic, Plantary Fitness, when you join, you only get to join that when you join, you only get to join that when you join, you only get to join that location. You don't get to go to the location. You don't get to go to the location. You don't get to go to the other locations. other locations. other locations. » Really? » Really? » Really? » Yeah. Well, » Yeah. Well, » Yeah. Well, » solve that problem. » solve that problem. » solve that problem. » Now my Now my opinion's changed. » Now my Now my opinion's changed. » Now my Now my opinion's changed. » I know. Uh, back to » I know. Uh, back to » I know. Uh, back to that was that See, it was intended. that was that See, it was intended. that was that See, it was intended. Okay, Tyler, shut up. Okay, Tyler, shut up. Okay, Tyler, shut up. » Uh, how does the hiring uh industry view » Uh, how does the hiring uh industry view » Uh, how does the hiring uh industry view planetary talent? planetary talent? planetary talent? » They hate us. » They hate us. » They hate us. » That's like for real. Uh I'm I'm joking » That's like for real. Uh I'm I'm joking » That's like for real. Uh I'm I'm joking mostly. Um the mostly. Um the mostly. Um the founders the founders the founders the founders the founders the founders love what we're doing and I think that's love what we're doing and I think that's love what we're doing and I think that's the most important thing. Like that's the most important thing. Like that's the most important thing. Like that's our customer. Um we're trying to help our customer. Um we're trying to help our customer. Um we're trying to help the business owner who has the hiring the business owner who has the hiring the business owner who has the hiring need. People that have been around HR need. People that have been around HR need. People that have been around HR for a long time see a lot of what we're for a long time see a lot of what we're for a long time see a lot of what we're doing as the incorrect way to solve the doing as the incorrect way to solve the doing as the incorrect way to solve the problem. Um they have their processes, problem. Um they have their processes, problem. Um they have their processes, they like their resumes, they like their they like their resumes, they like their they like their resumes, they like their job descriptions. They're like, "What do job descriptions. They're like, "What do job descriptions. They're like, "What do you mean I don't get to see your you mean I don't get to see your you mean I don't get to see your resume?" Um and you know, they're like, resume?" Um and you know, they're like, resume?" Um and you know, they're like, "Well, I like to throw rums out for "Well, I like to throw rums out for "Well, I like to throw rums out for spelling errors." We're like, "No, we spelling errors." We're like, "No, we spelling errors." We're like, "No, we fix all the spelling errors. Like if fix all the spelling errors. Like if fix all the spelling errors. Like if someone tells us if someone mistypes the someone tells us if someone mistypes the someone tells us if someone mistypes the company name, we're not going to put company name, we're not going to put company name, we're not going to put that person that person that person » or says the wrong company name. You're » or says the wrong company name. You're » or says the wrong company name. You're not going to hold it hold it against not going to hold it hold it against not going to hold it hold it against them, them, them, » right? So it's like » right? So it's like » right? So it's like » I appreciate that. » I appreciate that. » I appreciate that. » Or says the wrong company name. Um so » Or says the wrong company name. Um so » Or says the wrong company name. Um so it's just so different. And then you it's just so different. And then you it's just so different. And then you know they're they're still thinking in know they're they're still thinking in know they're they're still thinking in this like scarcity mindset. Um the best this like scarcity mindset. Um the best this like scarcity mindset. Um the best people are employed. I have to go poach people are employed. I have to go poach people are employed. I have to go poach them. uh it's better for me to have a them. uh it's better for me to have a them. uh it's better for me to have a small number of highly curated small number of highly curated small number of highly curated candidates than a large pool of candidates than a large pool of candidates than a large pool of candidates. We're like, and we take the candidates. We're like, and we take the candidates. We're like, and we take the opposite on all of those approaches. opposite on all of those approaches. opposite on all of those approaches. We're like, no, we want people that are We're like, no, we want people that are We're like, no, we want people that are looking for a new opportunity cuz looking for a new opportunity cuz looking for a new opportunity cuz they're going to be excited about they're going to be excited about they're going to be excited about joining yours. We're going to fill the joining yours. We're going to fill the joining yours. We're going to fill the pool full of a bunch of people so that pool full of a bunch of people so that pool full of a bunch of people so that we can try and find the best person in we can try and find the best person in we can try and find the best person in the in the big world that we live in. Um the in the big world that we live in. Um the in the big world that we live in. Um and so there we're just a little counter and so there we're just a little counter and so there we're just a little counter in cultural to what the standard is in in cultural to what the standard is in in cultural to what the standard is in that industry. we're all entrepreneurs. that industry. we're all entrepreneurs. that industry. we're all entrepreneurs. We don't have HR backgrounds, anybody on We don't have HR backgrounds, anybody on We don't have HR backgrounds, anybody on the team. Um, the team. Um, the team. Um, » so it it's a little bit different and » so it it's a little bit different and » so it it's a little bit different and that's where I'm, you know, uh, going that's where I'm, you know, uh, going that's where I'm, you know, uh, going back to talking about like those baby back to talking about like those baby back to talking about like those baby steps trying to kind of evolve uh, the steps trying to kind of evolve uh, the steps trying to kind of evolve uh, the world. I I think it's actually good in world. I I think it's actually good in world. I I think it's actually good in the future if human resources people the future if human resources people the future if human resources people were went back to doing what I think were went back to doing what I think were went back to doing what I think their original intent was of helping their original intent was of helping their original intent was of helping curate the internal culture. M curate the internal culture. M curate the internal culture. M » human resources people are not sales » human resources people are not sales » human resources people are not sales people. They [snorts] people. They [snorts] people. They [snorts] » they're more about liabilities. » they're more about liabilities. » they're more about liabilities. » They're they're about liabilities, but » They're they're about liabilities, but » They're they're about liabilities, but they're about like solving internal they're about like solving internal they're about like solving internal problems. That was the original kind of problems. That was the original kind of problems. That was the original kind of job function. And somehow along the way job function. And somehow along the way job function. And somehow along the way going and recruiting got dumped onto going and recruiting got dumped onto going and recruiting got dumped onto their plate which is uh interesting their plate which is uh interesting their plate which is uh interesting maybe arguably the most important maybe arguably the most important maybe arguably the most important business function of like finding the business function of like finding the business function of like finding the right person finding the right cultural right person finding the right cultural right person finding the right cultural fit and evaluating them and bringing fit and evaluating them and bringing fit and evaluating them and bringing them in and getting them spun up in them in and getting them spun up in them in and getting them spun up in the company that they the HR team is the company that they the HR team is the company that they the HR team is probably less equipped to do than probably less equipped to do than probably less equipped to do than even a sales team. Like these are not even a sales team. Like these are not even a sales team. Like these are not storytellers. These are not people that storytellers. These are not people that storytellers. These are not people that are typically good at uh selling the are typically good at uh selling the are typically good at uh selling the mission or vision of the company. Um, mission or vision of the company. Um, mission or vision of the company. Um, and I'm not saying that there aren't HR, and I'm not saying that there aren't HR, and I'm not saying that there aren't HR, you know, people or recruiters out there you know, people or recruiters out there you know, people or recruiters out there that do a great job at that. I'm just that do a great job at that. I'm just that do a great job at that. I'm just saying at large that wasn't the function saying at large that wasn't the function saying at large that wasn't the function of the role originally. It was supposed of the role originally. It was supposed of the role originally. It was supposed to be internal and that's like mostly to be internal and that's like mostly to be internal and that's like mostly internal, but anything external internal, but anything external internal, but anything external recruiting is also on your plate. So I recruiting is also on your plate. So I recruiting is also on your plate. So I think if we can build planetary talent think if we can build planetary talent think if we can build planetary talent um uh to what we hope it will be and we um uh to what we hope it will be and we um uh to what we hope it will be and we can get the buyin from HR over time can get the buyin from HR over time can get the buyin from HR over time they'll see the value in having a they'll see the value in having a they'll see the value in having a specialized system that can help them go specialized system that can help them go specialized system that can help them go sell the company and tell the mission sell the company and tell the mission sell the company and tell the mission vision values and story and align get vision values and story and align get vision values and story and align get high affinity talent in the door. Um and high affinity talent in the door. Um and high affinity talent in the door. Um and then they can go back to focusing on then they can go back to focusing on then they can go back to focusing on building the team culture and the team building the team culture and the team building the team culture and the team energy internally and the things that energy internally and the things that energy internally and the things that they're probably best at anyway. Um, they're probably best at anyway. Um, they're probably best at anyway. Um, that's the way I look at it, but we're that's the way I look at it, but we're that's the way I look at it, but we're not there yet. not there yet. not there yet. » Yeah. No, that's really good. All right, » Yeah. No, that's really good. All right, » Yeah. No, that's really good. All right, last question. Uh, your advice to the last question. Uh, your advice to the last question. Uh, your advice to the founder that's building a brand, uh, founder that's building a brand, uh, founder that's building a brand, uh, more importantly, a story. What's the more importantly, a story. What's the more importantly, a story. What's the best advice you have for someone that's best advice you have for someone that's best advice you have for someone that's like, you know what, I don't really have like, you know what, I don't really have like, you know what, I don't really have a story, which also will help me find a story, which also will help me find a story, which also will help me find talent. It sounds like talent. It sounds like talent. It sounds like » Yes. Um, » Yes. Um, » Yes. Um, you've got to have a mission. I think you've got to have a mission. I think you've got to have a mission. I think that's the I think that's the main that's the I think that's the main that's the I think that's the main thing. Um, our mission at Planetary thing. Um, our mission at Planetary thing. Um, our mission at Planetary Talent is we're making Earth's most Talent is we're making Earth's most Talent is we're making Earth's most talented workforce accessible to growing talented workforce accessible to growing talented workforce accessible to growing companies. Everybody memorizes it. We companies. Everybody memorizes it. We companies. Everybody memorizes it. We talk about it all the time. Um, talk about it all the time. Um, talk about it all the time. Um, everything we do is held up to that. everything we do is held up to that. everything we do is held up to that. Like, if it's not about making Earth's Like, if it's not about making Earth's Like, if it's not about making Earth's best talent accessible to growing best talent accessible to growing best talent accessible to growing companies, then throw it overboard. Uh, companies, then throw it overboard. Uh, companies, then throw it overboard. Uh, we don't need to do it. And when you we don't need to do it. And when you we don't need to do it. And when you have a a clearly defined mission um and have a a clearly defined mission um and have a a clearly defined mission um and a way to explain that in kind of a and a way to explain that in kind of a and a way to explain that in kind of a oneliner to people uh of who you help, oneliner to people uh of who you help, oneliner to people uh of who you help, then I think you have something really then I think you have something really then I think you have something really powerful. Uh your products and your powerful. Uh your products and your powerful. Uh your products and your services may evolve or change over time. services may evolve or change over time. services may evolve or change over time. Ours certainly have. Our mission has Ours certainly have. Our mission has Ours certainly have. Our mission has stayed the same. Uh that's the guiding stayed the same. Uh that's the guiding stayed the same. Uh that's the guiding light. So you've got to be really clear light. So you've got to be really clear light. So you've got to be really clear on it. And then you got to get your on it. And then you got to get your on it. And then you got to get your whole team bought in on that as well. whole team bought in on that as well. whole team bought in on that as well. Yeah, that's really good. Well, I love Yeah, that's really good. Well, I love Yeah, that's really good. Well, I love your the first time we met uh your the first time we met uh your the first time we met uh your storytelling was a lot of fun. You were storytelling was a lot of fun. You were storytelling was a lot of fun. You were uh you were just trying to meet with as uh you were just trying to meet with as uh you were just trying to meet with as many people as you could and then many people as you could and then many people as you could and then someone gave you my info, we met and someone gave you my info, we met and someone gave you my info, we met and then at the end of the meeting after you then at the end of the meeting after you then at the end of the meeting after you told all these awesome space analogies told all these awesome space analogies told all these awesome space analogies about talent, I was like I about talent, I was like I about talent, I was like I was like, man, you're a good was like, man, you're a good was like, man, you're a good storyteller. I just enjoyed sitting storyteller. I just enjoyed sitting storyteller. I just enjoyed sitting there listening to you and then you're there listening to you and then you're there listening to you and then you're like, "Hey, but I do have an ask like I like, "Hey, but I do have an ask like I like, "Hey, but I do have an ask like I need you to recommend someone to me to need you to recommend someone to me to need you to recommend someone to me to meet with uh because I'm just out here meet with uh because I'm just out here meet with uh because I'm just out here networking." And I thought that was a networking." And I thought that was a networking." And I thought that was a really clever way to network. Just thank really clever way to network. Just thank really clever way to network. Just thank you. you. you. » I want to I want to hear your story and » I want to I want to hear your story and » I want to I want to hear your story and then you told your story then you told your story then you told your story » and then was going on to other people. » and then was going on to other people. » and then was going on to other people. And I think that's a cool way to And I think that's a cool way to And I think that's a cool way to probably help develop a mission too of probably help develop a mission too of probably help develop a mission too of like why am I networking you know like why am I networking you know like why am I networking you know beyond just planetary talent like beyond just planetary talent like beyond just planetary talent like » networking beyond that is kind of how » networking beyond that is kind of how » networking beyond that is kind of how that call felt which was kind of cool that call felt which was kind of cool that call felt which was kind of cool because that could have felt like a because that could have felt like a because that could have felt like a sales gimmick right and it really didn't sales gimmick right and it really didn't sales gimmick right and it really didn't and yes there's there's some sales built and yes there's there's some sales built and yes there's there's some sales built into that concept because networking is into that concept because networking is into that concept because networking is also sales um but yeah I love your also sales um but yeah I love your also sales um but yeah I love your storytelling love your mission and I I storytelling love your mission and I I storytelling love your mission and I I took a lot away from this took a lot away from this took a lot away from this » minus you know I'm and I'm also thinking » minus you know I'm and I'm also thinking » minus you know I'm and I'm also thinking about my fitness about my fitness about my fitness » and your fitness. Yeah. How do you feel » and your fitness. Yeah. How do you feel » and your fitness. Yeah. How do you feel though? Yeah. Fitness. though? Yeah. Fitness. though? Yeah. Fitness. [laughter and clears throat] [laughter and clears throat] [laughter and clears throat] » We do need to be fit. It's important to » We do need to be fit. It's important to » We do need to be fit. It's important to be healthy. be healthy. be healthy. » It is. It is. Yeah. That'll be in the » It is. It is. Yeah. That'll be in the » It is. It is. Yeah. That'll be in the somewhere in your plan. somewhere in your plan. somewhere in your plan. » Yeah. Give it the next 80 to 100 years » Yeah. Give it the next 80 to 100 years » Yeah. Give it the next 80 to 100 years and then we'll add fitness in. Yeah. and then we'll add fitness in. Yeah. and then we'll add fitness in. Yeah. » Uh but through some digital thing. » Uh but through some digital thing. » Uh but through some digital thing. » Thank you, dude. You're awesome. » Thank you, dude. You're awesome. » Thank you, dude. You're awesome. » Thank you. This is great. » Thank you. This is great. » Thank you. This is great. » Yeah. Appreciate your time. ---